Off Day Off-Season Primer
While the Rockies' magical run has captured the interest of Denver fans and media alike, we've still seen some off-season stories start to trickle in. If you're like me, then you are probably anticipating the Rockies continuing this run into the World Series (why not?), but it also means that for the first time we won't have a month and a half to preview the off-season, but hopefully a mere sixteen days. Thus, it might be good to get a head start with the some of the stories and underlying issues of our off-season while we have a couple of days to wait nervously until Game One of the NLCS.
For those of you that wish to stay in playoff mode, I've spared you the scrolling by moving the bulk of this story behind the jump.

There's been some good discussion in some threads lately about the merits of keeping or re-upping certain players, and that will be the primary focus of this piece. A lot of good points have been made about the positive influences of both Fogg and Torrealba, and the resurgence of Fuentes, but what we need to take a look at is the factors relating to both team and player interest in a new deal. The best way to go about this is to break it down by player, so let's just kick it off with the most valuable:
Brian Fuentes
Entering the All Star break, it looked like Fuentes days as an effective stopper were over. His K rate was down to 7.41 from formerly lofty heights of 9+, and though the walk rate went with it, the hit and homer rate did not follow and Fuentes looked hittable and unnerved. At the time, I was ready to part ways as well, and hoped to get him back quickly to move him at the deadline to a desperate team willing to part with some young pitching. Now, I'm very happy to admit I was wrong. Off the DL, Fuentes suddenly went back to being old Fuentes, racking up the K's (9.53) but also the walks (4.76) while suppressing hits (4.37); effectively wild Fuentes was back. While he's hard on the heart, he's put up his best seasons with similar K and BB rates.
Luck had a hand in his good late stretch, he didn't allow a homer and the hit rate is way too low to repeat, but the return of the K and the new role were the two biggest factors in his success. Now, when Fuentes made a mess, he had help cleaning it up, thanks to a closer with excellent command and a GB heavy approach. Also, Fuentes could be used more aggressively against lefties through situation subs, facing a greater percentage of lefties after leaving the closers role. There was also talk that Fuentes had a hitch in his mechanics that was causing his stuff to flatten out, and while no follow up story was done to my knowledge, it's possible that Fuentes and the coaches ironed out some problems that helped return bite to his pitches.
Now that he's paired with Corpas to give the Rockies a competitive late inning tandem, O'Dowd has made it known that he'd like Fuentes back next year and beyond. O'Dowd has the right idea, by extending Fuentes past free agency, he may cut down what could be a large single season figure if Fuentes goes to arbitration, by spreading money over a two-three year contract. However, his comments about using two ninth inning relievers tells us something else about the situation: Fuentes still wants to close.
This is where it gets dicey. Despite his numerous All Star selections, Fuentes has never had an FIP lower than Corpas' 3.56 number posted this year, or for that matter an ERA lower than Corpas' 2.10. Manny has the power, control, and extreme GB tendencies to make him an elite closer, and on top of this, he has a hand in Fuentes' late success by cleaning up a couple messes Brian's left on the bases. It's just not a good idea to make the best Rockies closer (and one controllable for four more years) unhappy by cutting into his role.
So how will O'Dowd work around Fuentes' desire to close again, while getting Fuentes to re-up in a lesser role? Probably by paying him lip service; the Rockies always suggests two ninth inning guys when Fuentes returned but never came close to acting on it, even when it made sense with a lefty leading off the ninth. The most likely scenario is that the Rockies just head to arbitration and bite the bullet on potentially a 6-7 million dollar arb figure. Yet, if O'Dowd can somehow convince Fuentes that he's a better fit in his new role, while providing him financial security for the next two-three years, we could see Fuentes stay past 2008.
Josh Fogg
While the odds of retaining Fuentes for next year at least look good, they are considerably less promising with Fogg, and I'll explain in a moment. For starters, Fogg exceeded my expectations this season. He pitched like a top tier number five and turned in his best VORP since his rookie year. His rates didn't reflect a great difference over last year, but his consistent mediocrity proved valuable when the Rockies' rotation was just lucky to have five working starters.
There have been several good arguments made for retaining Fogg to serve in a wave role, crediting his value in the clubhouse as well as his mentality on the mound. While that makes some sense for the club, I think it makes little sense for the player, and don't see Colorado as an inviting place for Fogg's future.
Let's look at the situation hypothetically. Let's say that Rockies decide to ink in Francis, Cook, and Jimenez for sure in next season's rotation. They'd like Hirsh to compete for a role, but want Morales to get half a year at AAA. Also, we must look at the suggestion of Ken Rosenthal that Colorado will shop for a big starter this off-season (if not Willis or Bedard, we could still be open to one of the other mentioned trade names like Blanton, Garland, Burnett, etc.). So looking at it from Fogg's standpoint, he's had one of his best ERA's and win totals in his career, and he's developed a bulldog reputation that can rub off on younger players in a clubhouse. That's a pretty marketable persona when you look at the rotations of Kansas City, Cincinnati, Seattle, and Texas (just to name a few). If Fogg takes a critical look at his place in Colorado, he'll see that he's likely to have a role early on, but he also knows that Reynolds, Hynick, and Morales will all be waiting in AAA, and Morales is a guy the Rockies will certainly want to plug in as soon as he shows he's ready (assuming that isn't April). Basically, the Rockies can't guarantee that they'll have a job for Fogg for the entirety of next season.
Fogg has a bullpen background, and he could be a good fit in the front of Colorado's bullpen, but compensation isn't the same, and there are many teams that need a number five starter. Fogg is now 30, and he'd probably like to use this sub 5.00 ERA season to get a few years in a deal and decent amount of money to give him a cushy life after baseball. This off-season could be his chance to get his "big deal."
From the Rockies standpoint, they wouldn't mind having Fogg back for rotational depth to start the year, but probably can't guarantee that Fogg has a place in future plans with hopes of landing a big starter in addition to the three AAA prospects listed. It's doubtful the Rockies would be open to a three year deal, but could look at a one year deal with a club option for year two.
Ultimately, Fogg would do good for himself to hit the market and sell his reputation to a couple of young, depleted starting staffs looking for a good clubhouse guy, a place where he would face little competition for his role in the first two years. The Rockies can't offer this, and while I think both parties have a mutual admiration for each other, their likely goals and plans don't mesh. Fogg will be hard to retain.
Yorvit Torrealba
Torrealba's situation could end up being similar to Fogg's. Like Fogg, Torrealba's value goes beyond the statistical output, but we should also be careful not to overrate this particular aspect of his game. While Torrealba has been a solid mentor for our young Latin pitchers, we also need to be careful not to give him too much credit for their obvious talents. Still, he's given these guys a familiar voice and a reliable confidant as they were thrust into duty before maturation.
While the team's desire to retain Torrealba will be greater than that for Fogg, Torrealba looks to be in more demand as well. Already on today's Baseball This Morning on XM Radio, Buck Martinez has listed Torrealba as one of the top free agent catchers available this off-season, and it's clear his playoff momentum is becoming a factor in his off-season popularity. The same values Rockies' fans see in Torrealba are the same values that will make him enticing to teams; he's energetic and upbeat, he doesn't mind working with young pitchers, and has a reputation as a good receiver. A couple of high profile teams will be catcher hunting as well. Detroit-Torrealba rumors have already surfaced, and depending on the Posada situation, the Mets could be intrigued by his on field intensity and leadership qualities they feel they lack in the clubhouse. Simply put, Torrealba's little run could make him a pretty expensive commodity.
He's not going to suit everyone. He still finished 34th in VORP amongst catchers, and his throwing has not been good (but he can use the excuse that he was dealing with a young staff). Ideally, he's a backup catcher offensively that may see his bat die away from Coors. That said, the teams that have already or likely will hint interest are those that favor the intangible qualities of a catcher over certain offensive numbers.
So what do the Rockies want and do the Rockies fit what Torrealba wants? Based on some passing comments in the press over the last two months, the Rockies still consider Iannetta the catcher of the future, and I believe that O'Dowd (more so than Hurdle) and his development staff would like to see Iannetta get a little more action, but they also wouldn't mind having Torrealba's presence with the Latin pitchers back. At what cost, though? It's conceivable to think that Torrealba could creep in to the 4-5 mil a year category if the catching market dries up quickly, and the teams in need of catchers have deep pockets. The Rockies will still be operating on a limited budget with the expected raises of the big hitters in the lineup, and may not find it feasible to compete with the teams willing to give Torrealba big starter money.
From Torrealba's standpoint, how much playing time should he expect in Colorado next year? Thanks to his work this season and the playoffs, 4-5 teams will come to him offering starting jobs. The Rockies could offer this as well, but how much money and job security will be bigger issues. Of all the players on this list, Torrealba's return is the most up in air (since we aren't sure just how teams will react to his new reputation), and would have to put 50-50 odds on this one.
Miscellaneous Notes
-Why have we heard nothing on the Matsui front? I was worried that his offensive numbers were misleading, but looking at some defensive figures, he's very much worth retaining. I think loyalty and opportunity play a greater role with Matsui, and hope the team can put together a solid two year package, at that point Chris Nelson should be ready to take over.
-I don't expect Affeldt, Hawkins, or Julio back, but I do think the team still needs a top notch righty to match with Fuentes in the bridge to Corpas. By the all star break, the addition of Weathers to whatever set up man we add should give the Rockies a bullpen that not only stands out in surface stats, but also performs in leverage situations.
-Pay no attention to the Monfort's comments about adding payroll. For one, they were saying this before the season began, and two, they have to just to cover arbitration bonuses to field a roster. The payroll will increase, but lets not pretend O'Dowd will be getting a company credit card again this off-season. The Rockies will once again work under a modest budget, but one with increased flexibility. He'll get some new talent, but don't expect everyone to be retained long term.
-We'll talk about the situations of Atkins, Holliday, and Hawpe more after the playoffs, but one thing to keep in mind that a desire to retain players needs reciprocity to work. Just because the Rockies offer these guys a long term deal doesn't mean a) that it's competitive with what they could receive on the open market, and b) the player actually desires to remain with the team at that rate of pay. O'Dowd still has to work to insure long-term success without narrowing the window or deviate from the plan that has gotten the team this far. These players will get offers that make sense to the club, and it will be up to the players to decide if it makes sense for them. If it doesn't, don't be surprised if said player is still shopped this off-season.
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Comments
List of '08 FA
Does anyone know what the rules are on receiving draft pick compensation for lost FA?
by jlot10 on Oct 8, 2007 9:56 PM MDT 0 recs
you have to offer them arbitration
by sg8335aa on
Oct 9, 2007 4:14 AM MDT
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And on that note....
by sg8335aa on Oct 9, 2007 4:15 AM MDT 0 recs
I think arbitration is a must
by David OhNo on
Oct 9, 2007 9:45 PM MDT
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Sick
Fogg: Gone, cause of what you said. I see him making stupid money for his talent, ala Jason Marquis last year. I wish him well. He was good in his role for the Rockies, but he is the odd man out anyway.
Fuentes: I'd love for him to be a set up guy. But I think he could bring us 2 relievers in a trade. I'm sure other teams will see a 3 time all star closer available, and jump at the chance. (Many teams, including the Rockies, think they are getting a player from 3 years ago...not the player of today)
I'd like to see us keep one of the 4 of Julio, Hawkins, Affeldt, or Herges. We'll need a new bullpen from somewhere, might as well start here. All have ok stuff. None are getting younger, all are inconsistent, but that's what middle relievers are...if they were good they'd be pitching in the 8th. I'd actually keep Julio. He was a 9th then an 8th inning guy just this year. He was good for a long time for the Rockies this year as a 7th inning guy (I think he was over used by the Rockies). Hawkins will be too expensive for what he is, Affeldt just isn't a lefty specialist. Herges may be had cheap, and he's been a work horse for the Rockies down the stretch.
We'll need a lefty in the pen. Not sure where that comes from. Which brings me to Mark Redman. As a long man, spot starter out of the pen, IF he could be that lefty or 2nd lefty, he could work, but that's a position/role he's not really done before.
Torrealba: I don't see who else is on the market that would be better in his role (on field Latin pitching coach) except maybe Ivan Pudge Rodriguez, who is old and will still be expensive. (there is an option still with the Tigers for next year, made 10.6 Million this year w/ the Tigers) La Duca? both might work as a part-time catcher in their twilight. Personal Note: Ivan Rodriguez is one of my favorite players of all time. Personally I'd love to have Pudge..at any price, regardless of age, and past steroid use. I'm way to biased to give a fair opinion, especially on his current talent level.
Matsui: No word on him at all is strange. #1 FA 2nd baseman, I think he will get a big contract, mostly due to thin talent at this position. Something short of his current 8 million a year contract, or slightly less...like 5-6 Million/year for 3 years I'd guess. Is that too much for the Rockies? Who else is there that is above replacement value? Mark Loretta? Luis Castillo? Juan "I can't hit after June 1st" Uribe? Marcus "I can't stay on the field" Giles? Makes Ian Stewart look more like a viable option, as the other options don't look that great.
by Redhawk on Oct 9, 2007 8:07 AM MDT 0 recs
Just to make it clear for myself
- Catcher
- 2ndbase
- Starting Pitcher (Debatable on quality needed, depending on view of Hirsh/Morales)
- Bullpen Lefty Specialist
- Bullpen Long Man/swing Man
- Bullpen 2-4 middle relievers
by Redhawk on
Oct 9, 2007 8:23 AM MDT
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On the pen and Kaz
As for Kaz, I'm not surprised we haven't heard anything, as I think the team really wants to see if Ian Stewart works first. It's also posturing to get Matsui to come to them in terms of contract demands. I feel pretty good about the situation, as there's a lot of mutual benefit for both Kaz (his home/road splits indicate as much) and the team if he's still here. I don't know if he could find a better situation, unless the Dodgers find a way to unload Jeff Kent (Kaz lives in LA during the offseason) so I think the Rockies have the leverage. I expect the deal might get done later, like the end of November same as last year, but my hunch is that Matsui will be back with the Rockies next season.
by Rox Girl on
Oct 9, 2007 8:24 AM MDT
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Oh god...
by MattTheRock on
Oct 9, 2007 3:47 PM MDT
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Pudge
by free7694 on
Oct 9, 2007 2:20 PM MDT
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Yep
crap...
by Redhawk on
Oct 10, 2007 9:32 PM MDT
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Orange County Register, (in California)
by roxtalk on Oct 9, 2007 10:09 AM MDT 0 recs
Inherited runners
Could Speier (with a sinking fastball, sinking slider and an unusual delivery) fill this role? Maybe he can be a bit like Cla Meredith was his first year in San Diego.
Weathers will be an impact arm whenever he comes up and if he doesn't have to replace Feuntes as the 8th inning guy then he would be a great guy to bring in to blow people away (and/or be the late-inning guy when Feuntes and/or Manny can't pitch).
The guy to keep an eye on is Newman - can he be a quality big league lefty specialist?
Also, Buchholz hasn't exactly shown mental toughness and maturity yet to be a late innings guy but he definitely needs to be a middle reliever rather than a long man. Get him regular innings - he has earned it and he needs the consistency to continue to improve.
by MADness on Oct 9, 2007 4:55 PM MDT 0 recs
I think Speier's recent improvement
My personal favorite is Joaquin Benoit of Texas, who was rumored to be on the block at the deadline, and the Rockies may have the prospects to make something work. A Koshansky-Baker package could be enticing to Texas, or maybeone of the bats and a relief prospect.
Either way, I think we're one arm short of having a very promising pen on paper.
by David OhNo on
Oct 9, 2007 9:43 PM MDT
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What do you think
Here's what I have:
Closer: Manny Corpas
8th:
7th: LaTroy Hawkins (assuming we pick up the option)
Middle: Ryan Speier
Middle: Taylor Bucholtz
Lefty Specialist:
Long Man:
Potential in house: Bautista, Newman, Morillo
But I don't follow the minor leagues that close. Am I missing some one? (I'm assuming Fuentes is gone)
by Redhawk on
Oct 9, 2007 10:05 PM MDT
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Ramon Ramirez
9th: Corpas
8th: Fuentes
7th: RH Set-up via trade or free agency
7th: One of Hawkins/Herges (maybe both?)
Mid: Buchholz
Mid: Speier
LOOGY via trade or free agency
by malakian on
Oct 9, 2007 10:56 PM MDT
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Also, don't forget about Darren Clarke
by Rox Girl on
Oct 10, 2007 5:54 AM MDT
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Gamble
by MADness on
Oct 10, 2007 4:07 PM MDT
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Other names to consider...
Via trade:
Luis Ayala (WAS)
Joaquin Benoit (TEX)
Kiko Calero (OAK) (non-tender candidate)
Kyle Farnsworth (NYY)
Frank Francisco (TEX)
Jason Frasor (TOR)
Mike MacDougal (CHW)
Akinori Otsuka (TEX) (health concerns?)
Jon Rauch (WAS)
Al Reyes (TAM)
Juan Rincon (MIN)(non-tender candidate)
Derrick Turnbow (MIL)
Dan Wheeler (TAM)
Matt Wise (MIL)
Free Agents:
Doug Brocail
Scott Linebrink
Troy Percival
David Riske
Rudy Seanez
Julian Tavarez
Luis Vizcaino
by malakian on
Oct 10, 2007 4:39 PM MDT
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FA in 08
Also Kaz is getting older, he's over 30 and has made some good money because of the Mets deal. I wouldn't be suprised if he gives the Rocks a home discount because of the loyalty they gave him and the laid back media compared to a NY/LA.
I think Iannetta will take a big step up next year. It's kinda fun though dontcha think, this winter there are less holes to fill. Every year for the past three years there are less and less holes to fill. And can you Imagine a rotation of Francis, Cook, Morales, Jimenez, Hirsch next year?
by Charlie77 on Oct 9, 2007 8:14 PM MDT 0 recs
That Rotation
IF....the thinking that either Hirsh, or Morales isn't ready then we need a better pitcher.
Or if the thinking is "You can never have too much starting pitching" and we get/go after a front line guy like Santana, Willis, or Bedard, and we just back up Hirsh or Morales into AAA/bullpen...cause we can, then that really strengthens the organization. Though I assume one of our pithcers will be dealt if we did go after a better pitcher.
by Redhawk on
Oct 9, 2007 8:40 PM MDT
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It think we will
One, Cook is about to enter a situation similar to Jennings last year. His option of 4.5 mil for 2008 is an easy pickup, yet I would believe there's a slim chance that he could be moved if the team makes leeway into a big name pitcher and interest in Cook is high. I still think it's in the team's best interests to retain Cook and take the draft picks when he leaves, but if we grab a starter elsewhere, and Cook could bring in a second big piece, it might be worth looing at.
Two, the starting depth isn't that great just yet. Reynolds may not be at 100% until May (according to BA), so we won't really have him as an option until mid-season. Morales likely will be handled with kid gloves again, as he's just 22, Hirsh still hasn't answered questions on his control, and may need another refresher period, and Hynick has yet to pitch above A ball.
A "big ticket" starter allows the rotation to align more appropriatelly, with Francis moving to two, Jimenez three, Cook four, and one of Hirsh or Morales five.
I'm not saying we need another starter, but another good one could potentially make the difference in competing tightly for the division next season or winning it handily.
by David OhNo on
Oct 9, 2007 9:39 PM MDT
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Sequence
Whether it is logical or not, I can't see it happening.
BTW, what are your thoughts on Morales working out of the pen early next year instead of starting in triple A?
A) how does he profile as a reliever
B) would it hamper his development (which does he need more - starts or big league experience?)
by MADness on
Oct 10, 2007 3:43 PM MDT
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Morales and the pen
Morales would be a fine reliever. He's death on lefties and and as we say in the Futures Game, the fastball consistently pushes 97 with great life and the curve still is its knee buckling self. Morales would have little trouble making the adjust.
Here are my concerns, though:
-He'd likely go in filling the lefty relief role and could get pigeon-holed. If he goes in and pitches like he can, he'll be on the the game's best LOOGY's, and if the team is fighting a tight race, it will be difficult to get him out of that role, and over the long run, we need Morales to be more than a LOOGY.
-He needs work refining his secondary stuff. Morales basically has four pitches; a hard fastball, a sinker, a curve, and a change. The fastball and curve are enough to succeed in relief, the question then is how much work he'll get developing the change. Not just learning to locate the pitch, or refining the grip, but maintaining a consistent release point and arm speed. Because he can be sheltered in relief from left killers, he won't gain the needed experience in facing these types with a good change.
-He is still raw enough that minor league time could do him good. Morales has basically spent half a year above A ball. He still could use plenty of mound time, and the rotation is the best place to give it to him, be it a AAA one or an MLB one. He hasn't been so lights out that some farm work would cause him to grow stale.
So we'll see. He could be great in relief, but the Rockies would need to make sure that he faces mutliple hitters, he uses all of his pitches, and they make the commitment to put him back in the rotation before permanently banishing him to the pen.
I still thinks he has even odds to make the rotation next season, and would only have those compromised if the Rockies went out and nabbed that "big ticket" guy.
by David OhNo on
Oct 10, 2007 10:10 PM MDT
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Big Ticket Starter
by sg8335aa on Oct 10, 2007 4:35 AM MDT 0 recs









