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Around SBN: Clippers Need To Realize That Spurs Are The Anti-Grizzlies

Tuesday Pebble Report

Chris Constancio identifies LHP Xavier Cedeno as a prospect to watch in 2007. I believe we qualify as those fans he references in his first sentence.

Colorado Springs, L 5-14: Joe Koshansky collected two hits, including a double, and walked twice. Ubaldo Jimenez was rocked in his first start of the season. He lasted 2 2/3 IP, allowed 11/9 R/ER on 8 hits, walked five and allowed two homers. Denny Bautista struck out two in one inning of work, while Ryan Speier saw two runs cross home plate in the final inning.

Tulsa, W 9-4: Tim Olson led the Drillers to victory last night with a grand slam in the fifth inning and totaled 5 RBI. Matt Miller also chipped in two. Jordan Czarniecki did not have a hit last night, but did walk three times. Juan Morillo pitched for one inning and put zeros across his line.

Modesto, L 6-7 in 12: Jose Valdez had three hits in the loss and an RBI, while Travis Becktel drove in two. Eric Young had an ignominious night as he struck out five times. Xavier Cedeno had a lackluster start in that he only went 3 2/3 IP. He only allowed one earned run on five hits in that performance and struck out five. Andrew Johnston struck out three in two innings before David Patton picked up the loss.

Asheville, L 4-7: Simon Ferrer was knocked around in 4 IP. He allowed five runs on eight hits, walked and struck out three each and allowed a homer. The offense whiffed 16 times in the contest.

-------

U-Ball makes Matt Eddy's List of AAA pitchers to follow this season.

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THIS GAME IS SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!
I have seen Ubaldo pitch a number of times, including this spring.  His stuff looks like he could own a lineup of Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Mantle, Williams, Bonds etc....all in their prime.  So how does last night happen?  Jeff (Mickey) Manto once said after a great week in the majors, "I can't get too excited, this game has kicked me, spit on me and bitten me."  He's right.

by 86 wins in 07 on Apr 10, 2007 9:19 AM MDT reply actions  

Ubaldo
I never answered Rox Girl's question last week about why I thought Ubaldo wasn't ready for the majors... last night is a nice illustration.  He's just never thrown enough strikes to be successful in the majors.  Not in spring training, not last year, not in '05, not in '02 or '03... alright, I'll take back the "never."  His injury-shortened '04 was fantastic.

But the point remains: he has terrible control, and he hasn't really shown any signs of improving in that department over the past few years.  In order to believe that Ubaldo is major-league ready, you have to look completely outside the performance history.  And I'm not willing to do that.

Again, this is in no way an indictment of his potential.  But major-league readiness isn't a question of potential; it requires (in all but the most extreme cases) the ability to control the strike zone.  Ubaldo doesn't have that.  Neither does Tulo.  Iannetta does (awful start to '07 notwithstanding), which is why I think he's the best prospect in the organization.

Another thing that worries me about Ubaldo is that his strikeout rate really plummeted after moving up to AAA last year.  Could be a sample size fluke, sure, but it also could be that he's not able to get ahead in the count against more disciplined hitters.

by Heltonfan on Apr 10, 2007 9:26 AM MDT reply actions  

Jimenez
no mention to the fact that he had to wait how many days before his first start??? The weather wasn't that great either. Given Jimenez's long layoff, March 30th was the last time he pitched, I am willing to pretty much forget about this start completely. He obviously didn't have his command.

Jimenez was spectacular during the spring, and there's no reason to believe last night's start and numbers were just due to some unfortunate circumstances he had to deal with. He'll be fine.

by Rockiesbiggestfan on Apr 10, 2007 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

Last night was clearly a data point in your favor
We'll see where it goes from here. During the Spring his command was much sharper than he displayed last night.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's a bit of confirmation bias
I don't have time to get into this in great detail, but there are some flaws in the argument.

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

I would love to hear your argument
please post it.
East Texas's Biggest Rockies' Fan

by Blake20th on Apr 10, 2007 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Let me just say
that he has every right to be concerned about control issues in regards to Ubalda Jimenez, but there are more rays of hope than dispair.  

I think the issue with control is that though it matters, there are more than just extreme cases where players can succeed without it.  It's not fair to completely saddle Jimenez with prhobitive control issues.  While his list of PECOTA comparables isn't great, it also contains Freddy Garcia (trending up) and A.J. Burnett, who aside from injuries has been a useful player.  The walks may keep him from becoming the ace some envision, but the strikeouts are too early to call off.  If you look at Jimenez' career, he's taken time at some levels before adjusting.  Most recently, in his mid-season promotion to Tulsa, his K rates fell as his walk rate climbed.  After an off-season to get adjusted, he returned to strikeout over a batter an inning, with rates of 4.9 BB/9 and 10.5 K/9 (MLE's of 5.0 and 7.8), a K rate high enough to overcompensate for the walks, ala Daniel Cabrera.  Then shuttled to the Springs at mid-season, the K rate fell again, as like in 2005, he sturggled to get acclimated with the league in a timely fashion.  There cold be a case of small sample size here, but if you look at BP's MLE's for his walk rate, these are the numbers in succession from his last four stops (not including his major league debute:  5.6, 5.4, 5.0, 4.7, none of which makes for successful control, but the MLE's suggest that he's slowly making progress in that category.  If we assume that Jimenez is a slow starter (even last year in his AA return, he took him a handful of starts to get locked in), than we could also assume that the K rate should return as he gains more exposure to AAA.  

Now, the problem here may be the environment, not necessarily the competition.  Since CSP does not use a hunidor, and is at a higher park factor than Coors, we could expect Jimenez to lose feel of his curveball and movement on the rest of his pitches.  The debate here may rest in whether or not CSP is a good place for prospects, or, should the Rockies pony up for a humidor in CSP (yes).  

In summation, Jimenez is young enough to still make gains, and his trends in walk rates are in his favor, but not out of the red just yet.  While I think him reaching "ace" status is a longshot, he does have value to a big league club.  PECOTA projections for his 2007 VORP at Coors would exceed Fogg's actual VORP last season, so a case could be made for Jimenez actually improving the team right now.  Even if the walks stay around roughly 4 per 9, if the K's hover around 7 per 9, then he's going to be worth a win or two starting, and in the days of overpriced starting pitching, he's valuable.  

As for Tulowitzki's problem's controlling the strike zone, that's far too early to call.  His PECOTA comparables are loaded with value (Kinsler, Weeks, Peralta, Cuddyer, Edwin Encarnacion, Michael Young, Betemit, Barfield...) few may be considered superstars, but putting their production offensively in at shortstop, and you have superior relative value to most opponent's shortstops.  As for his early woes, should they be too out of line for a 22 year old that has never taken a swing at Triple A?  He did have a 9% walk rate for a 21 year old in Double A, so there is evidence of competency in command of the strike zone.  He's not going to be Todd Helton at the plate, but for a shortstop, he'll suffice.

If he just went 3-3 tonight, he'd be hitting .300 on the year, a .78 jump in average from his current total.  I know average doesn't mean a great deal to you (nor to me), but it serves as a good illustration to how young the season is.

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

MLEs
The Prospectus MLEs are absolute garbage.  Take Ubaldo's AA numbers for example.  He had a 2.46 ERA; park-adjusted league average was 4.24.  However, BP says that he had an MLE ERA of 2.99, compared to league average of 4.50.  So that's 1.78 RAA/9 in AA, translating to 1.51 RAA/9 in MLB... in other words, MLB is being rated at only .27 runs per 9 more difficult than AA.  I shouldn't need to convince anyone of the absurdity of that.  You can forget about PECOTA completely for minor leaguers; the horrid MLEs render it completely useless (I've checked; it's just as bad on the hitting side as it is for pitchers).

"Even if the walks stay around roughly 4 per 9, if the K's hover around 7 per 9, then he's going to be worth a win or two starting..."

Jimenez walked almost 5 per nine at both levels of the minors last year.  4 walks per nine in the big leagues would be a massive improvement.  In other words, I don't disagree with the statement quoted above, but that's one hell of an "if".

On Tulo...

"As for his early woes, should they be too out of line for a 22 year old that has never taken a swing at Triple A?"

No, they aren't out of line.  Which is precisely the problem.  Again, I'm not questioning the long-term potential here, I'm just saying that there's no reason to expect these guys to be particularly useful to us in the present.

by Heltonfan on Apr 10, 2007 8:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fair enough
and agree that it does take a bit of optimism to see these guys being big contributors ( though I think Tulo will be more useful than replacement level).

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 9:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Tulsa wins
8  4  0  0  0  7

That, friends, is Greg Reynolds' line from his start this afternoon in a 7-0 win for the Drillers.

Not too shabby, huh?

mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on Apr 10, 2007 2:19 PM MDT reply actions  

11-6 GO/AO
If you look back to the day of the 2006 draft, I was rather unimpressed with selection of Reynolds. However, I was frustrated with the whole jury duty thing (case wouldn't start selecting jurors till the next day) so when I got home shortly after Reynolds was selected I hadn't read the morning papers' stories on how Reynolds became the choice over the past night.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

As was I...
about being disapointed when the Rox drafted Reynolds, but I suppose anytime you have a draftpick that high the player you draft typically is a special player. We've seen Reynolds do very well in the minors so far and he had a pretty solid spring too. I'm expecting Reynolds to turn out to be a good pitcher and hopefully he will have a long career with the Rockies and their other stud prospects they currently also have.
Go Rockies

by Rox Rock on Apr 10, 2007 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Now it's my turn for some confirmation bias
I've probably been among the highest on this selection and am pleased he's living up to my expectations. Let's hope he continues to impress.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm working on my Drillers rundown
but let me just tease the story by stating that I will be eating some crow over the Reynolds selection (although to be fair to myself, I did soften some after watching Reynolds in post-season action).

I'll go over the details of both his outings in that story to be post late tonight/early tomorrow.

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Box score error
Reynolds went 7 innings, not 8.  Matt Daley pitched the 8th.

Reynolds' line from today:
7 IP, 2 Hits, 0 walks, 7 strikeouts

Free Ryan Spilborghs!

by malakian on Apr 10, 2007 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

One "hit" was really
an error on Colonel, who stumbled to a sharply hit groundball and pulled Sardinha off the bag.  He should of had just one hit.  He couldn't have thrown more than 100 pitches, and his velocity was consistent throughout the game.

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 7:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Seven Shut Out Innings
Let us not leave out Josh Sullivan pitching against Charleston.

by lahardball on Apr 10, 2007 7:19 PM MDT reply actions  

Another one of my faves making it big...
one hit, one walk, six K's. Sweet deal for Josh.

I'm really excited about how our homegrown pitching
is maturing right now. Once some of our offenseive guys get going (nice triple by Gomez and two doubles by Mayora, speaking of) it will become an incredible year for watching the farm.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 7:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see the team push Sullivan
He's 22 in low A ball, and has posted good raw rates throughout his minor league career.  We've seen reports of his lively fastball, so it isn't like he doesn't have the stuff to succeed when moved aggressively.

He's certainly a prospect, but also quite an enigma.

by David OhNo on Apr 10, 2007 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Of course,
We won't mention Brian Lawrence's latest rehab start. Sheesh. Tony Abreu and Larry Bigbie are owning him tonight.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 7:34 PM MDT reply actions  

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