Tuesday Morning Rockpile:

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 8:06 AM MDT in Rockpile

Renck checks in this morning with a report on Francis. Jeff Kent has high praise for Franchise's performance yesterday, and we can expect more of these longer performances (at least from a pitch count perspective):

"He wasn't going to melt just because he reached 100," pitching coach Bob Apodaca said. "We need to show them confidence that we trust them late."

That's encouraging to hear but it's not something I want to see three outings in a row for a pitcher. Unless you're, uh, a pitcher such as Livan Hernandez.

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The Yankees re-signed Ron Villone after releasing him before the start of the season. The reason why the Rockies didn't gain his services? Kim, of course. And as the article goes, the Rockies want a big league reliever in return for Kim. For a team that would want Kim to relieve, they'd have to give up one of their relievers that has already failed. Trading garbage for garbage, but there are worse alternatives to Kim.

Sadly, and not unexpected, Scott Boras won't negotiate during the season for Holliday.

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Will Jeff Francis drop his appeal this week? Let's get ready for a Taylor Buchholz start!

Update [2007-4-10 16:55:25 by Russ]: lgh77 points us to this article that reveals Francis' decision to drop his appeal.

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Comments

Holliday, Boras, and Monforts

Does anyone that has purple colored glasses, actually thinks that Holliday will resign with the Rockies? Name one Scott Boras client that didn't get an hyper-inflated free agent contract.

I love Holliday. We have him for at least 2 more years. And 3 if we wait it out and don't trade him before he becomes a Free Agent.

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 8:21 AM MDT reply actions

Several Factors.....

I do see scenarios where we do. Most of those, however, involve the Rockies becoming a playoff team this year or next (preferably both). In those situations, I think the team has to open the wallet...

However, if we don't....then I can understand the team trying to get what they can for him.

by sg8335aa on Apr 10, 2007 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions

I agree

It's about revenues and attendance this season as well as early orders for season tickets for 2008. I think we'll be able to sign one of Atkins or Holliday to a longer term deal if we break 2.25 million this season, both if we make the playoffs or break 2.5 million. If we're close and competitive into September and there's a surge in 2008 pre-orders we could see it happen also.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions

I understand the Rockies wanting to pay Holliday

but I guess I don't see any scenerio where Holliday/Boras resigns. That's just not Boras's MO. He creates bidding wars, and drives up money as high as possible. And I think all his clients end up over-paid, by the time they resign. Never, have I seen him settle for one dime less then the max (and even keeping bidding going when there is only one team bidding against themselves!)

It's not that the Rockies wouldn't want to keep Holliday. And they might try, but even if the Rockies offer Holliday above market money to resign, Boras would take that to the FA market and use it as a starting price point. (like he did with Carlos Lee this last year after the Rangers offered during the season)

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions

I say trade him

If he doesn't want to stick around, lets cut him loose. The return would be several top prospects and I have trust in our systems depth that replacing him wouldn't be that hard to do.

If Stewart takes a step foward this year, or Baker keeps mashing, then there is no reason not to sell while is at his peak.

Holliday is a great player, but he still strikesout to much and isn't great in the field.

While were at it, lets trade Fuentes as well. We would get a nice little return there and I think Corpas can do a better job anyways.

Just my two cents.

by wolf213 on Apr 10, 2007 8:51 AM MDT reply actions

And then here's the next question

Even if we are able to re-sign Holliday, is it in the best interest of the team? I'm mostly in agreement with wolf213 that he might have more value in trade, but he's taking a step forward in his profile this season and suddenly his ability to be a draw at the box office when Atkins is not makes me a little less convinced of that stance. We'd definitely be able to get several quality, affordable young players in return for Matt.

by Rox Girl on Apr 10, 2007 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions

Box office

draw or fan recognition is the wild card when it comes to Holliday. He does seem to be far more loved then Atkins. I'd even say Hawpe is more recognized then Atkins as well.

I still don't see how the Rockies could compete in the open market for Holliday. And I don't see why Holliday wouldn't go to the open market, regardless of what the Rockies offer.

So he has value now in trade...but would the "fans" understand?

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 9:02 AM MDT up reply actions

rebuilding

were near the end of our "rebuilding" phase, if not AT the end of it. in my opinion its time to stop trading big leaguers for prospects. i dont think we should trade him at all, but if we did, id want to see us do it for some pitching help thats ready immediately whenever during the next 2 years this imaginary trade occurs. assuming all goes according to projections or slightly better, next year our lineup should be absolutely disgusting. and except for iannetta/tulo, everyone in it will have at least 3 years of big league experience. lets not get rid of arguably its most important piece for "prospects".

Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on Apr 10, 2007 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions

But

The A's lost Giambi, Tejada, Molder, Hudson, etc, etc. The only one they resigned was Chavez. That's the mid-size market game. Trade high and hope you get prospects to replace the leaving stars.

It sucks. I too wish baseball players especially the stars played their entire careers with one team. But that just doesn't happen anymore, especially with the mid-market teams

Just ask the Twins. Johann Santana is about to be a free agent. But as the best pitcher in the game, they have to keep him for there own playoff chase and fans...but they know they can't compete for his Free Agent salary.

The solution is a salary cap/revenue sharing.

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions

why this is different

i believe, in fact i know, that we have the potential to be more than a mid-market team. true, the jennings trade was a classic mid-market steal. im sure it made billy beane and terry ryan smile when they heard about it. but we saw throughout most of the mid 90s, and punctuated by the neagle/hampton signings and the helton resigning, that when coors field fills up we should be able to spend money with the best of them. so like rox girl says in the comment above this one, if we can start drawning the kind of crowds we did through most of the 90s again (and i dont think it would be too hard to do so if we were legitimately in the division which should happen next year if not this year) we should be able to expand payroll into the top 10 range. thus allowing us to keep our homegrown sluggers or (hopefully) spend big bucks elsewhere.

long story short, i dont think its a foregone conclusion that we have to think like the a's and twins do. we may not QUITE be at the level where we can pay market value for a holliday or atkins, but i think were closer than most people realize.

Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on Apr 10, 2007 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions

I agree...sorta

I think the Rockies are a mid-market team. I think the A's/Twins model is the best model for the Rockies, which sadly means continuealy tradeing talent and trying to rebuild with younger (and cheaper) prospects.

But, I think the Rockies could be the BIG mid-market team. With winning, I can see fans coming back. It's not inconceviable, to have a payroll, at or near average MLB payroll. Which would be like the A's/Twins but with more money and flexibility ...closer to what the Braves are now, (now that they have shed about 20 million in payroll), with some home grown guys, but with some high paid Veterans.

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions

The Row rules

I took a glance at True Blue LA to see what they were saying after the game yesterday. A lot of good that did. Two comments on their game thread vs. 297 on Purple Row.

by DeepPurple on Apr 10, 2007 8:56 AM MDT reply actions

Ya But

they also have Dodger Thoughts over at the Baseball Toaster, and its a pretty active community. And they have t-shirts too... I want Purple Row T-Shirts..

by wolf213 on Apr 10, 2007 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions

agreed....

Ahheemmm Rox Girl......T-Shirts? I'd like to promote the Row out here in DC, but I don't think simply having Purple Row in my Top 8 friends on myspace.com is enough.

I'd wear a Purple Row T-shirt when I go to Nats games.......I'd especially love one for series out here in July when the Rockies visit for 4 games.

If we had T-shirts, I'd promise to take days off work to go early for batting practice and try to talk to the Rockies players while wearing the shirt during that July series (and thus promoting The Row to the players)

by sg8335aa on Apr 10, 2007 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions

hey me too!

i also live in dc. im going to be the most obnoxious (within a little bit of reason, i dont want to get kicked out) rockies fan ever during that june series. look for me- ill be the young guy constantly harassing everyone on the nats roster (especially dmitri young, for being a druggie/portly). i was gonna wear my helton jersey but a purple row t shirt would do just fine. id also be happy to wear it to the series against the orioles in june.

Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on Apr 10, 2007 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions

I have an idea for a t-shirt

Lemme draw it up and I'll post it, see what everyone thinks.

by oo_nrb on Apr 10, 2007 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions

It's a feasible

idea now with a larger readership here. It's been kicked around since last June.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions

Also....

just a wild thought. How bout a Purple Row night at Coors Field this summer? When some of the main folks might be in town.

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions

In response to generating revenue

It seems cylical. People attend games for face/name value. If those names are not there people do not come. Normally names are known because they are talented(or because they play on the east coast). If we rid outselves of such players how can expect people to show up for the second rendition of Reliford to Miles?

InToddwetrust

by InToddwetrust on Apr 10, 2007 9:46 AM MDT reply actions

Hot sites

Wolf, I'm sure you're right about Dodger Thoughts being quite active over at Baseball Toaster. Every team seems to have a "hot" blog or message board to where their fans flock. For the Dodgers, it's apparently not on SB Nation, as I discovered yesterday.

by DeepPurple on Apr 10, 2007 10:55 AM MDT reply actions

As much as it pains to me to say it

I don't think there's a chance we can keep Holliday if Boras is his agent. Say what you want about Boras, everyone agrees his clients get paid a lot of money and go to teams that are willing to pay said amount of money. I really dislike it - I have some moral issues against but it's also a pain because my favorite teams can't pay, so they always lose players to Scott Boras. Drives me bonkers.

In any case, I agree with LarryB303, in that I really wish the Rockies would stop trading away their best players for prospects. We've got a damn good lineup this year, and the only way to keep competing is by keeping your lineup and making improvements within it. When you're talking about not drawing enough fans, and thus not creating the revenue needed to resign the big players, think about this: Fans are so frustrated (well, I think they are, I definitely know I am) when the Rockies trade away their best players for prospects that they practically give up on the team, therefore don't come to games. It's kind of a vicious circle, but I really think the Rockies need to hold on to what they've got for a few more years and they'll start contending, which will bring in the money needed to resign these guys.

I need a Holliday. Coincidentally, I also need a holiday.

by Squeaky on Apr 10, 2007 11:13 AM MDT reply actions

just to clarify

i wasnt saying its never ok to do that. im not shortsighted about how a team needs to be realistic about its needs, the jennings deal was necessary and well pulled off. i just think, you know, pending how we do this year (and as my signature line indicates, im planning on watching the rockies well into the 10th month of the year) the time to make a move to keep a homegrown player who is also a fan favorite may be now/2008/2009. its time to make our move. if the rockies succeed on the field, the money should be there. if they dont... well, then im ok with moving him for some prospects. but i dont think thats going to happen.

Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on Apr 10, 2007 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions

couple points

Like you point out it does get tricker dealing with a potential free agent the better, the player is and if they become a key part of a playoff contending team.

But the point we really differ on is this: The Rockies don't have right of first refusal on re-signing Holliday. We Rockies fans would like to think that he would want to stay, if we gave the same money as he would make elsewhere. But we can't MAKE Holliday stay, or resign, even if we gave him MORE money then everyone else. And with Boras is his agent the winning/high bidder will probibly over pay when it's all said and done. Can the Rockies win that bidding war? maybe Do we really want to win that bidding war?

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions

i hear ya

first of all i have a hard time believing that if we offered him the most money, and were a playoff contending team, all other things being equal (no big squabbles with management) that holliday wouldnt love to take a huge deal from the rox. boras clients love money, and as a batter, how could you not love playing the prime of your career in coors field? depending on how the humidor continues to pan out, of course. well see whether august and september of 06 were fluky or part of a permanent return to the 90s.

on the other hand, to answer your last questino, maybe we dont want to win that bidding war. conventional wisdom says, and historically it would seem to be the case, that corner outfielders are just about the most replacable commodity on a baseball team. but the big x factor with holliday is star power. its been touched on here a little bit, im not entirely sure how important it is. does the average fan really care that much about him? maybe. and that should be carefully considered by management before they dismiss him as another interchangable piece in the puzzle (as i believe jennings was; i dont think john and jane q. fan were too in love with him).

Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on Apr 10, 2007 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions

personally....

I wasn't happy about the Jennings trade, but it wasn't because I had a deep and abiding love of JJ. In fact I really had no opinion of him whatsoever. The reason I wasn't happy with it was because the Rockies traded away their winningmost pitcher for Willy T and some prospects. It wasn't that I thought the Rockies would be a worse team for it, or a better team. My frustration was based around the fact that much of the time it seems to me that the front office is much more concerned with developing prospects than winning, which makes me want to bang my head against the wall. The Todd trade I was very upset with, both because I like Todd and it also sent me a message that the Rockies front office just wanted to develop more players. I understand money is a big deal, but I just think letting really good players walk for some prospects sends a really bad message to the fans. In fact, I have really only been a Rockie fan for a year, even though I live in Colorado, and that's just because I have seen so many good players walk that it makes me wonder if the front office really cares about winning, or if they just want to develop prospects.

That is what I mean when I say I think it would not be good to let Holliday, Atkins, or any of those stars walk, because it drives fans away when it appears that prospects are more important that good, steady ballplayers.

I need a Holliday. Coincidentally, I also need a holiday.

by Squeaky on Apr 10, 2007 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions

But Jennings

also had his fair share of losses. 56, I believe, and that's the franchise record. Not that W-L records are the be all and end all of determining a pitcher's success.

Many people know that Cy Young has the most career victories, but he also has the most career losses.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions

That wasn't my point

I don't really care how many wins Jennings actually had, and that he also had the most losses. My point was that we, as fans, knew that he was the winningmost pitcher in Rockies history. The average fan didn't know he lost the most. And then, as fans, we knew he was traded away for prospects. That's why it was frustrating for me, because I didn't feel that commitment to winning. It didn't help that JJ said that the Rockies don't really expect to win, they just hope to win. That's why letting go or trading star players just shows, to me, not a commitment to actually winning, which pushes me away from the team.

I need a Holliday. Coincidentally, I also need a holiday.

by Squeaky on Apr 10, 2007 7:09 PM MDT up reply actions

Fair enough

but it's also attributing too much to a pitcher's ability to win or lose a game. A win for a pitcher could be meaningless if he gives up 7 runs but still gets the W in the box score. Or a lack of offense leading to a loss when a team fails to drive in runs, in Jennings case.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree

I'm really just talking about messages, not the actual effect. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not saying that by losing Jennings we are a worse or better team, because that would be silly. I'm just saying it doesn't send a good message to fans. And if you're like me and just pay attention to the message, it drives you crazy. I'm a little implusive...:)

I need a Holliday. Coincidentally, I also need a holiday.

by Squeaky on Apr 10, 2007 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions

Messages from the FO?

I gave up on those years ago.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions

Holliday

The question, when the time comes, is will Holliday's contract be equal to that of his value to the Rockies? Following Boras' past history, he will command the big bucks and Holliday will end up signing with the highest bidder. If that is Carlos Lee-type money, I definitely think the Rockies let him walk.

Holliday is no doubt a great player, but much like what the problem is with Helton contract in comparison to the budget, it would not be a wise decision to tie up so much of the payroll to one player. There is a chance, if the Rockies are competitive (hopefully) that they pull a National-Soriano move and just let Holliday stay through the 2009 season before walking, getting nothing in return.

Its a scenario the Rockies are going to have to face eventually...and it will be interesting to see what they do.

by Rockiesbiggestfan on Apr 10, 2007 11:26 AM MDT reply actions

Here's a thought on Lefties

not that Left handed relievers were being talked about:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ag.cF2idXKhJY_SBN4DI4GwRvLYF?slug=ap-redsoxmoves&prov=ap&a mp;type=lgns

Boston sent Javier Lopez to AAA. And he had good outings so far this year. Would they like to have a Korean starter...slightly used back?

Lopez is better then Affeldt and certainly Martin. BUT it would mean trying to deal with Boston, and I think their GM is jerk.

by Redhawk on Apr 10, 2007 2:16 PM MDT reply actions

He did have a very succesful year with the Rockies

but he also had a terrible year with them. I think he was probably overworked. He might be ready for a second chance.

East Texas's Biggest Rockies' Fan

by Blake20th on Apr 10, 2007 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions

I'd like

Aquilino Lopez to get another go around with the team, who hasn't pitched since the 2005 season. Of course, it was a very small sample size but he did well for all of one game/four innings.

by Russ Oates on Apr 10, 2007 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions