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Game #33: Buchholz vs. Brad Thompson

Putting this up earlier than usual today.

Buchholz takes the mound for his third start, while Brad Thompson makes his first start of the season after 14 relief appearances. Or as Tom at The Coors Effect puts it, "our injury fill-in starter versus their injury fill-in starter."

In two starts at Busch Stadium in 2006, Buchholz pitched 8 1/3 innings and allowed eight runs on 10 hits. He walked seven (three were intentional) and struck out three. In a start at Minute Maid Park against the Cardinals last season, Buchholz went six innings and allowed two runs on three hits.

In five innings of relief work against the Rockies, Brad Thompson has allowed only one run. So far in 2007, Thompson appears to have a couple good outings and then comes in and gives up a run or two. He had a span of four consecutive outings in which he gave up runs at the end of April.

Go Rockies! We don't want to wait an extra day for another road series victory.

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Now that I think about it...
Thompson really isn't an injury fill-in starter.  That was supposed to be Randy Keisler taking Carpenter's spot, but he got demoted on account of having a 5.65 ERA.  So, Thompson is really the "fill-in starter for the injury fill-in starter who sucked."

And Buchholz is the "injury fill-in starter for the injury fill-in starter."

The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 4:17 PM MDT reply actions  

Clint Hurdle:
I guess by "rotating" Yorvit and Chris until one of them gets hot offensively, he meant, keep playing Yorvit until he gets hot offensively. Torrealba catching again tonight.

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 4:36 PM MDT reply actions  

Ugh
Play the kid already!!!
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 4:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

so..
if Helton has a Renaissance, can Hurdle have an Enlightenment?
Curdle ate my Hollidays. AND he killed my pterodactyl. <long drawn out scream>

by Squeaky on May 8, 2007 5:38 PM MDT reply actions  

Um...
Hadn't thought about that. What about a Great Awakening?
Curdle ate my Hollidays. AND he killed my pterodactyl. <long drawn out scream>

by Squeaky on May 8, 2007 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Monforts
have a Great Awakening, Dan O'Dowd unnecessarily receives the guillotine. The next GM is Napoleon, who brings two World Series trophies to Denver. After the second championship, he begins to overreach with bad contracts and retires to a remote island in the South Pacific.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe Hurdle's Enlightenment...
could be like the English variety, and then the guillotine question doesn't come into play. Drawing and quartering, maybe, though.

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 5:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'll root for the Rockies tonight
but I maaaaay be rooting for the Cards tomorrow. Adam Wainwright is my favorite player in baseball.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 5:52 PM MDT reply actions  

That gives us two of three, right?
That's better than the team itself usually does, so I'll take it.

:)

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but...
Don't you have a thing for Jason Hirsh, too?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's kind of a problem.
But if we win today, then we have the series and Wainwright can win tomorrow. Trust me, it's a hard decision. I took a look at the pitching matchup and said, "Well, crap."
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ah, yes
As I called it, the "Professional Tall Guy" matchup.  I'm probably just jealous, since, as the earlier Hardball Times piece that Rox Girl linked pointed out, tall people can be mediocre and still make it to the majors, while shorter people actually have to  be good.  Not that that's any different from basketball, where seven-foot stiffs take up bench space (and salaries) in the NBA.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Let's make this a good game, please!
This is the first game I've been able to watch in about a week. Please, Rockies, let's get a win. A convincing one would be nice.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 5:57 PM MDT reply actions  

Bob Davidson at 1B tonight
Lay your bets on what call he will blow for us!
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 5:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Steve Finley is bad at baseball.
I think I'll just call this "Ditto" to avoid typing it later.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Al Hrabosky
says that Helton's goatee keeps Gypsies away.  Huh?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Hrbowsky.
They don't call him "The Mad Hungarian" for nothing.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pujols
for the DP. Gotta love 'em.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 6:23 PM MDT reply actions  

Wow
There appears to be some impostor wearing a "Pujols 5" jersey that just swung at a 3-0 pitch and hit into a double play. The real Pujols would never do such a thing. For the sake of my fantasy team, could somebody please find the real Pujols? And for the sake of my Rox, could you wait until after this series before you start looking?
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:23 PM MDT reply actions  

Go figure
Pujols gets the green light on a 3 and 0 count. I guess they think he's pretty special.

Thankfully, we got a GIDP in that situation.

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 6:24 PM MDT reply actions  

Get off of it!
These Cardinals announcers are driving me insane talking about Thompson. You'd think he was Liriano the way they are talking. The dude will be lucky to go 4 innings. Get over it!

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 6:26 PM MDT reply actions  

Check out those doubles!
Now, if we could score one or two, that would be nice.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:28 PM MDT reply actions  

Mike Shannon is the worst announcer
that I have ever heard.

Not only is he a terrible homer, he doesn't remember who is on the basepaths.  You can actually hear him looking down at his scorecard to figure out who the opposing players are.

Drives me insane.

by Roberbola on May 8, 2007 6:29 PM MDT reply actions  

But that's why I like him
I find listening to Shannon entertaining because of his homer-ness. Old former players who are blatant homers entertain me. Your milage may vary, but I love Shannon and Ron Santo.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's not the homer-ness that bothers me,
it is the incompetence.  When I was living in STL, I can't remember how many times I heard opposing players described by their position, or as "the runner", instead of the players name.

You'd think if you were in the business of baseball, you would bother to learn the names of all the players.

by Roberbola on May 8, 2007 6:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Come on Q get a hit....
that's asking too much isn't it?

by Blake20th on May 8, 2007 6:29 PM MDT reply actions  

Sweet job, Gags
"Let Em Go" Gallego costs the Rox again.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:33 PM MDT reply actions  

Q gets a hit....
and Brandon gets thrown out at home.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Bad, bad, bad
But with the pitcher coming up I guess you gotta take a chance.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Maybe not
I would rather have help hawpe at third and only have 1 out with Taylor batting so in case taylor strikes out (like he did) you have the bases loaded for Finley. Oh wait, I guess that's not much better, huh?

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

the pitcher and Steve Finley after
Gallego must have known that was the only chance we had. Plus, with a decent jump off the contact, Hawpe should have at least made that play closer than it was.

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 6:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Gallego's gotta know
How shallow the OF is playing. I know Duncan sucks out there, and I don't disagree with testing Duncan, but he was playing so shallow that even a two-hop throw was good enough. That's a poor job by Gags, plain and simple.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

two hop throw...
Again, Hawpe's baserunning is as much at fault on that. I'm not saying Gallego shouldn't have held him, but either Brad didn't take off right away or he held up coming to third because he was beaten by a good ten to fifteen feet on a weak throw. Maybe he thought Gallego was going to hold him, and that's why he didn't push to third, but it's still true that he wasn't running it as hard as he should have been in that situation.

by Rox Girl on May 8, 2007 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

We didn't get the run
But we did get baserunners, and it's early... We have time. Hey, Q got a hit! It's amazing.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well...
If Gallego doesn't send Hawpe, do you really trust Buchholz and Finley to drive anybody in?  Might as well take a chance when you have it.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was about to say...
It could have gone that we had the bases loaded, one out, and Buchholz (K) and Finley (Mr. Ditto) up. THAT would have been frustrating.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Looks like that sinker is working
Tulo shows some great range on the grounder by Rolen.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Trying to bunt?
Who does Mr. Ditto think he is, Taveras?
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:48 PM MDT reply actions  

He thinks
he's Taveras four weeks ago.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sweet
Can't debate that one.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:51 PM MDT reply actions  

Matt Holliday, sir
You are the effing man. Thank you for not allowing the umps to screw us out of that one.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:52 PM MDT reply actions  

Busch III, actually
Old Busch was Busch II. Don't ask me why, but it was.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Busch Stadium I
is commonly referred to as Sportsman's Park.  It officially became Busch Stadium in the 1950s when Anheuser-Busch bought the team.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ugh...
Atkins still has crappy luck.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 6:53 PM MDT reply actions  

It really does seem
that he hits a lot of balls hard that don't fall in. What happened this time?
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bullet up the middle
Which is where Kennedy happened to be positioned.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well
they have to start going through/falling in eventually, right? It does seem that this happens to Atkins the most, for whatever reason.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

okie dokie
So, yall wont care, but I won't be taking part in the game thread tonight. I've got people here and we have the game on, but we're having an old school "Mario Party" and hitting up some Smash Bros.

Nerdvana, I know. Enjoy the game and go Rockies!

by A.J. Haefele on May 8, 2007 6:54 PM MDT reply actions  

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Sit Torrealba!

The man is a double play machine right now!! Honestly, Clint!

Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:03 PM MDT reply actions  

Tough inning
Only Rolen would have turned that DP on the Torrealba ball. That was hit on the nose and short-hopped him, and Rolen made it look easy.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 7:04 PM MDT reply actions  

Rolen's offense is suspect
(as is that of his teammates) but no one has ever denied that the man is a defensive wizard. I still stand by my earlier statement, though. Sit Torrealba. We've seen what we're getting out of him.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Is it that
Buchholz is pitching well, or are the Cardinals just making him look good right now?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:20 PM MDT reply actions  

Probably...
Looks like a little from column A, a little from column B honestly...

by MattTheRock on May 8, 2007 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

No jinxing
The game is too close. I think we should give this the no hitter treatment and wait until the end of the game to discuss.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's the Cardinals.
Mainly fastballs in the zone and they just can't hit them to save their lives.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

C'mon Tulo
You need a hit to keep your streak alive. Clearly not this time, but hopefully later...
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:22 PM MDT reply actions  

WTF?
Eckstein literally jumped in the air to hit that one.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:27 PM MDT reply actions  

Ok, rules experts -
Had an umpire actually called infield fly there?  Or is it just automatically assumed?

by Roberbola on May 8, 2007 7:30 PM MDT reply actions  

I don't think so
Infield fly rule only applies with runners on first and second, not when there's only a runner on first.  I think they just ruled that Tulo caught the ball.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good job
working out of a jam there.  Buchholz still doesn't have a strikeout though?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:32 PM MDT reply actions  

THAT'S Pitching
Way to show some sack, Buchholz. That's two great pitches to get out of that jam.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 7:32 PM MDT reply actions  

With the Cards offense these days...
I'm not sure if it counts as a jam. But still, good job by Taylor.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Gotcha, that makes more sense
Didn't catch that detail over the radio

by Roberbola on May 8, 2007 7:32 PM MDT reply actions  

Wow
Looks like Matt is really in a groove tonight.  Must be the Cardinals.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:35 PM MDT reply actions  

Buchholz, BTW
is only at 55 pitches through five innings.  Looks like he could be out there a while.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:36 PM MDT reply actions  

Come on, Garrett
Let's score your buddy. Don't just leave him out there like that.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:37 PM MDT reply actions  

Walking Atkins again?
Heh, well, that worked out badly last time. I think a lot of Cards fans just jumped off bridges.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ummm...
Apparently La Russa didn't learn his lesson last night.  Why, exactly, is he walking Atkins to get to Hawpe?  We saw how that worked out last night.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:38 PM MDT reply actions  

Up to Yorvit
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 7:38 PM MDT reply actions  

Yorvit
If you do something, I promise I won't ask for you to be benched for the rest of the game. If you don't, it's all Iannetta, all the time.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:39 PM MDT reply actions  

Okay, that's it.
Sit down, Torrealba. Preferably for a while.
Get Demented. You know you want to.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Anything but
your honors history degree, I take it...
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't
want to give that up.

Maybe my team-signed 1996 Mets photo.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 7:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Argh!
Come on Yorvit! Put Iannetta in.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 7:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Argh
Runner at second, nobody out, and we don't score. Need some insurance runs, there's a lot of game left.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 7:46 PM MDT reply actions  

Taylor
Just wondering why you have an inability to throw strikes to Pujols tonight?
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:48 PM MDT reply actions  

Honestly
With the way the rest of the Cardinals are hitting, I wouldn't mind too much if Taylor didn't pitch to Pujols rather than, you know, tossing up a meatball to him.  Then again, he's now retired Pujols twice.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Taylor is pitching
the best I've seen any of our guys pitch this year. Great command.

by moomacher on May 8, 2007 7:50 PM MDT reply actions  

It is a good job
but the Cards aren't exactly the 1927 Yankees right now.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hurdle
Seriously... why would you put Bautista in at this point?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:50 PM MDT reply actions  

My thoughts exactly
Buchholz is only at 71 pitches and our bullpen is overworked.

They just showed Buchholz with a helmet on. It looks like he'll go back out there.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 7:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bad call
Buchholz had only thrown 71 pitches of 4 hit shutout ball and we're going to the pen? If this backfires on us, I will be going to get that guillotine to chop off Hurdle's head, even if I have to go to England to get it!

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Who is on the mound?
He sure isn't pitching like the Buchholz we've seen the past few starts. I hope Hurdle doesn't pull him now.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 7:54 PM MDT reply actions  

And, well, he is
At least it's for Baker.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Baker PHing.
Just when I think Hurdle does something right, he does something wrong. (Starting Torrealba again, pulling Buchholz). ARGH!
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Buchholz is done
We're gonna put our faith in "El Humo Morado" for the 7th and 8th.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 7:57 PM MDT reply actions  

Purple Smoke
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ah thanks
I like it

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

MMyy nniicckknaame
That's what I'm calling the Latin relievers.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

wwooww
myy kkeeyybooaardd iiss  ssppazzzzinngg rriigghhtt noww  -  yyikeess
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Mr. Ditto dittoes.
Tulo, you need a hit, come on now, babe...
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 7:58 PM MDT reply actions  

Come on guys
We're going to the pen. I'm not sure 1 run is going to hold. We need about 4 more this inning.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 7:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Finley
Why in the name of god are we still playing this stiff?!  I know Taveras is hurt, but ANYBODY could out hit this guy!

by raoulduke1977 on May 8, 2007 8:00 PM MDT reply actions  

Wow
Well, that pinch-hit appearance really did a lot of good.  Now who do we go to?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 8:00 PM MDT reply actions  

Pulling a guy at 71 pitches
when he's dominated a struggling lineup to the tune of four-hit, shutout ball for six innings.

Gotcha covered, Hurdle.

Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:01 PM MDT reply actions  

I'm just trying
to forget about it. Too frustrating otherwise. Hurdle drives me insane.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Me too.
He gained a scanty modicum of goodwill from me yesterday for arguing Tulo's HR enough to get thrown out, then he goes and does something like this.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Me too
Hurdle's on a very thin rope with me. If we give up even one run, I'm cutting the line.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

oddly....
LaRussa yanked his starter after 79 pitches.

by DenverBears on May 8, 2007 8:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...
That actually could be effective.  Throw him another one in the chin!
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 8:03 PM MDT reply actions  

Who was he throwing that to?
Bautista look like he threw that to a fan, not Torrealba.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:04 PM MDT reply actions  

Bautista looking hittable
Urge to kill Hurdle rising.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:07 PM MDT reply actions  

Cut it out!
Quit giving up hits! If one of these guys score, I may have to throw something!

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:08 PM MDT reply actions  

That's it
I really am going to kill Hurdle. No reason in hell to pull Buchholz. Hurdle probably thought he'd done "enough," but we need him to do "more."
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:11 PM MDT reply actions  

I'll help
I've had it with Hurdle. Why, why, WHY would you pull a guy that only gave up 4 hits and no runs on 71 pitches? Why? Especially with our bullpen. We're not San Diego here.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

No, no, no.
There is no better time than NOW to get a DP.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 8:11 PM MDT reply actions  

Bases loaded, 1 out
We need a double play in the worst way!

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:11 PM MDT reply actions  

WTF is this?
Seriously, Clint?  Buchholz would have done worse than that?
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 8:12 PM MDT reply actions  

How frustated
must Buchholz be right now.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Are you trying to tell me, Hurdle
that Buchholz would have done worse than load the bases with one out?

I can't believe that guy.

Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:12 PM MDT reply actions  

Spiezio tends to be good in the clutch
We really, really need a DP. I'm thinking of things I wouldn't give for one, rather than things I would -- the list is shorter that way.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks Buchholz
But you won't be getting a win tonight.  Sorry.
The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on May 8, 2007 8:14 PM MDT reply actions  

I'm going to kill Hurdle
Not even kidding.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:14 PM MDT reply actions  

Why?
Did he bean Eckstein? Or give up that double? I understand not liking the move but Clint's culpability only goes so far.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bautista shares the blame
But this move exemplifies precisely why I don't like Hurdle. I'll bet you anything he pulled Buchholz thinking the kid had done "enough" against a MLB lineup. He asks for "enough." He doesn't ask for "more." He does not push his players, and that's why  the Rockies don't win with him.

And an RBI single to Kennedy plates two more. Really brilliant managing. Really brilliant relieving.

Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

The point is
If Hurdle had sent Buchholz back out there, Bautista wouldn't have been in there to hit Eckstein or give up the double.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

All I'll say is
Hindsight is 20/20. How do we know they wouldn't have figured out Buchholz?
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

That is possible
but a very, very small possibility. Pulling a dominant starter after less than 80 pitches is, in my book, an indefensible position, period, especially with our 'pen the way it is.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pre-hindsight?
I don't think that it qualifies as 'hind-sight' for those who criticized it before things went wrong.

With only one inning needed to bridge to Corpas and a young, unpredictable and banged up bullpen Clint is going to have to adjust his 'standards' and trade his manager cliche book in for a while if he wants the Rockies to have a chance to survive all of these injuries and the slow start to the season.

by MADness on May 8, 2007 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Chuck his manager cliche book?
So he should do the opposite of everything he usually does? Does that mean he'll be the Yankees manager next season?

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 8:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

Buut if Bautista had done his job
It'd be a moot point.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

The point is
Buchholz was doing awesome and he was at 71 pitches. There was absolutely NO reason to but in Bautista in the first place. Forget what Bautista did. Our bullpen sucks. No matter who Hurdle put in there, they could have done the same thing. Check above where I said that 1 run would probably not be enough for our bullpen. I don't care who Hurdle put it. It doesn't matter. The blame still rests with Hurdle for pulling Buchholz.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Damn
Hurdle, you and I have issues.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:14 PM MDT reply actions  

ARGH!
Are you kidding me?

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:15 PM MDT reply actions  

Geez
Why us? Why do we have to have the incompetent manager, and a shaky bullpen? I hate this.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:15 PM MDT reply actions  

I hate this
I hate our bullpen, I hate our manager.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Clint's culpability only goes so far
Think we've overreacted a tad, folks. Hurdle didn't hit Eckstein or give up the double.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:18 PM MDT reply actions  

But he did
Put in the pitchers that did.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:19 PM MDT reply actions  

And they didn't do the job.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Which is our point
You have a guy that was shutting down the Cardinals. Why would you take him out when he was not struggling and only at 71 points? What really ticks me off is if that was any of the other pitchers (with the possible exception of Fogg) they would go back out there.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Put it this way
Would you rather have a scorching hot Buchholz in there who has pitched a hell of a game and looks comfortable against the Cardinals hitters, not to mention the fact that his pitch count isn't high, or a wildly unproven pitcher at the big league level in Bautista in there to get critical outs?

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Put it this way
Those runs didn't score because  Clint Hurdle put in Bautista. They scored because Bautista got roughed up and Arias couldn't get out of the jam.  Hurdle had nothing to do with  that at all.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Put it this way
Let's just agree there was no reason to pull Buchholz.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wsn't arguing that
Just saying that the Hurdle hate was an overreaction.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

No it's not
It's Hurdle's damn fault that Buchholz was pulled! How are you giving him a free pass?

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

You're obviously not getting it
It's about the choice to replace Buchholz (with a low pitch count, and dominating the game) with an unproven reliever in Bautista that has people pissed off, not the results of Bautista and Arias inning.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

I get it fine
If Bautista goes 1-2-3, nobody's saying a word about yanking Buchholz.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

But he didn't
And you can't expect him to based on his major league track record.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Just wondering
why you are giving Hurdle a free pass on this?

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

not a free pass
I'm just saying he shouldn't be the  first guy we blame for  this one.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Number one
on my list for the reason I stated directly below this.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Actually, he is
Hurdle was the FIRST person responsible for pulling Buchholz. Period. Then the blame passes to Bautista, then Arias. Hurdle takes the primary blame though because it was his decision to pull the dominant Taylor.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Manager
Hurdle chooses who plays.

While Danny Ardoin and Clint Barmes may have been the guys who couldn't have hit a beach ball last year it was still Clint who sent them out there over and over again.  

Taking out a guy who is currently dominating and putting in a guy whose entire career has been defined by wildness is an entirely different situation than second guessing a logical move.

by MADness on May 8, 2007 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Exactly
it's his job to put our team in the best position to win. Pulling a dominant Buchholz after throwing less than 80 pitches is not putting us in the best position to win. I can see pulling him for a PH in that situation if we were trailing, but we weren't.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Who would ever have thunk
that Pujols would be the guy we would WANT up in that situation.

Guys, please get hits, otherwise I'll be arrested for offing the Mensa candidate after the game.

Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:23 PM MDT reply actions  

Pujols
with another DP. A bit late, however.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 8:23 PM MDT reply actions  

Again
Just another game we should've won that looks like we're going to end up losing. How many of these until Hurdle gets canned, 10? 20? 30?

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:28 PM MDT reply actions  

<sigh>
I really, really wanted us to win tonight so I didn't have to root against Wainwright tomorrow...
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:32 PM MDT reply actions  

On the bright side
There was just a humorous commercial on of Jason Hirsch essentially cow tipping Dinger while he was sleeping standing up. At least our team can produce somewhat funny commercials.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:37 PM MDT reply actions  

I'll go check
and see if they've put it online yet. I love MLB commercials -- the Mariners do the best ones, followed by the Pads and A's.
Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

This one was good
It kind of reminded me of one of those this is sportscenter commercials only with the Rockies.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Twins
also have funny ones. I saw a good one with Santana and Nathan driving.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, that one cracked me up
but great success! Two new commercials are up -- and they both made me laugh out loud, which I needed. Don't miss Francis's attempts to do laundry and Hirsh's attempts to distract the coach from burning sausages.

http://mlb.mlb.com/col/fan_forum/commercials.jsp

Get Demented. You know you want to. Also... PLAY CHRIS IANNETTA. NOW.

by Silverblood on May 8, 2007 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah
Pitcher's Off Days is great.

by Knepster on May 8, 2007 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Damn
I thought with that competitive win last night this team would turn the corner and get on a roll. Guess I was wrong. Should've won this game if it wasn't for Hurdle. It's a shame.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 8:46 PM MDT reply actions  

I hate you Clint Hurdle!
You just cost us the game. Thanks for nothing!

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 8:46 PM MDT reply actions  

There's always tomorrow . . .
but it has a nasty habit of becoming today.

by Russ Oates on May 8, 2007 8:46 PM MDT reply actions  

pile on hurdle all you want
but scoring one run isnt going to win you a lot of games.  simple as that.  hes the whipping boy and scapegoat right now, which is all well and good, because someone has to be blamed and it makes people feel good (my approval of him has dropped this season, thats for sure).  but before we all start freaking out about the bucholz decision... the rockies have won like 5 1-0 games in their history.  bats have to come to play.
Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on May 8, 2007 8:59 PM MDT reply actions  

WOW
I didn't think I'd get burnt at the stake tonight. I wanted to comment further, but I was at work and my keyboard there was having some serious issues.

I'd like a chance to rebut all of you, if you don't mind. I'll post something on my blog later tonight, and come back and link the post here. Sound fair?

mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 8:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Have at it
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies/2007/05/08/bullpen-blows-one-in-st-louis/

I can see that David OhNo made a few of the points that I was going to make about Buchholz's removal, but all the same, I'd appreciate if you folks would take a look at this. I ain't mad at ya'll. Just want to defend myself.

mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 8, 2007 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Excellent post
While I read your full blog post, thought about it from your perspective, and have had time to cool down from the loss I still say they should've left Buchholz in. I'm not saying you're wrong, not at all, we all have different opinions and yours just so happens to differ with others on this particular subject. The one reason I could see pinch hitting for Buchholz in the 7th is if we were down 1-0 but we weren't. We were up 1 run and the main objective to winning that game was to hold the opposing team to 0. We didn't have to score another run to win this game, we had the lead whether it be 1-0 or 5-4 it was still a 1 run lead. I'm not taking shots at you, you have every right to express your opinion, we just respectfully disagree in this scenario. Nothing we say now is going to change the fact we lost a very winnable baseball game.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 9, 2007 12:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

I hear ya
And I wasn't trying to deny anybody their right to totally disagree with me. I was just surprised how quickly everyone brought the hammer down on Hurdle last night. I don't think he's 100% blameless for last night's loss - a manager never truly is. But I think his share of things is minimal in a case like last night's. Your mileage may vary, and I respect that.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - The Row's only Josh Fogg fan

by Franchise26 on May 9, 2007 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Let's be fair here
and I want to preface by saying that I have been a Buchholz AND a Bautista supporter because they both have big arms and untapped talent.

That said, let's not forget how LUCKY Taylor's outing was.  In six innings, he had no K's until his last batter, to go with one walk.  Between that, he had SEVENTEEN outs on balls in play, with a fairly even split in gorundballs to flyballs.  This isn't the recipe for a shutout, and in a one run game, it wasn't like he was in complete control.  While I like that this outing should buy more time for Buchholz in the rotation, he has to strike out more batters or he'll get run early in his next outing when all the balls in play find gaps and not gloves.

As for Bautista, most people adored him over the weekend, but oh how things change so quickly.  The bullpen is close to barren, and really, this team's "playoff" chances are on the ropes.  They needed everything to break right, and it hasn't.  Rather than getting to preoccupied for 2007, the team should be focusing on players that can help now, and down the road, and that means throwing Bautista out there every other day and hoping that some type of control clicks for him.  Same for Arias, though I don't see him as any type of fixture in the pen.  Bautista has shown some "stopper" qualities in his first few outings, so you cannot blame Hurdle for wanting to see if he has another flamethrowing young stud.  As he proved, Bautista isn't as close as we hoped, but he still needs to pitch while he's here.

The big point, as has been made, is that the only offense the team mustered was a solo homer on a pitch that missed way wide of its target.  That's all we had, off of a mistake.  This isn't on Hurdle, this was a group effort.

by David OhNo on May 8, 2007 9:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Not getting your logic
Okay, even if the Rockies have only won 5 1-0 games, that is still no reason to pull him when he was clearly dominating the Cardinals. If he's getting outs and not getting hit hard, why do you pull him? There are some pitchers that pitch to contact and do just fine. That's what Taylor did and he had 6 shutout innings to show for it. He relied on the defense, yes, but they came through for him. His stuff looked pretty good, too. I was glad to see him using his curveball more.

As for Bautista, I understand wanting to see what you have in him but testing him out in a one run game where the only offense our team had managed to that point was Holliday's homerun also does not make sense. Test him out with either a larger run differential or in a situation where we were already down.

Do I think we could have won the game, 1-0? Who knows. All I do know is that Buchholz had been through the order two and a half times and the Cardinals were not hitting him better the second time they faced him. He was dominating them. Hurdle should have stuck with the known dominating pitcher in Buchholz than take a gamble on a rookie to hold the lead. Buchholz has thrown a complete game shutout before (May 21, 2006 against the Rangers) and was 1 out short of a second. He may have been able to go the distance or, at least, one more inning so we could have turned the game over to Corpas.

by lgh77 on May 8, 2007 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's pretty standard logic really
Dominance is many strikeouts, few walks, and bushels of groundballs, Buchholz had one of those.  

His BABIP for the outing was .190 where the league average BABIP for the year is over .300.  Buchholz has not had a past of holding hitters far below this line, for tonight, he was pretty lucky.  I'd buy your argument more if this was some time of trend for Taylor, where he's shown competency in the pitch to contact style, ala Cook, but from his last several outings, that hasn't been the case.

For me to truly believe a pitcher is cruising, I want to see K's and groundouts.  I still think to a degree Buchholz is capable of doing this, but it wasn't the case today.

I'm not going to argue this point with you any further, though, and it isn't for animosity's sake.  I'm assuming from your past posts that you have some type of connection with Taylor, evidenced by your unwavering support, and that's fine.  The problem is that it tends to get in the way of open debate.  

So in summation, I'm not saying Buchholz pitched bad, because that's clearly false.  I am saying that he was lucky, and the numbers will support me.  I'm hoping that this is a confidence builder for Buchholz, and that his outing will give him an extended look in the rotation (which puts Fogg on the more immediate hot seat), and with more confidence the strikeouts his stuff is capable of producing will come.  I would like to see more breaking pitches.  He has a good hook that he seems to control better than his fastball, but Yorvit seems to get a little to heater happy in his calls.  With a hard but relatively straight heater, more breaking pitches should keep hitters from digging in on the fastball.

by David OhNo on May 8, 2007 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

yes its questionable to pull bucholz
im not saying hurdle is without blame.  this whole season has contained some pretty questionable stuff from him.  but its a long, long, LONG ways from being JUST him, which in my opinion far too many people on this board are too quick to claim.  as a lukewarm supporter of his, i almost hope he gets canned at this point just so when the rockies dont start magically winning every single game (and probably continue pretty much on their current pace) i can say "see????  the manager really doesnt have that much of an effect."  but until then, i guess its just gonna be more of the same on these boards.  if we win, its because of the players.  if we lose, its because of hurdle and firing him would magically fix all our problems.  its a broken record around here and im sick of it.  hurdles not without blame, but neither is any other segment of the team's play.  the starters, the bullpen, the regular position players, the bench position players, theyve all struggled at times this year.  try to see the whole picture, thats all i ask.
Rockies in October.

by LarryB303 on May 8, 2007 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bautista
I am all for running Bautista out there to let him work the kinks out but late in a 1-0 game isn't the time or the place if there are other options.

Like you, I am all for finding out just what Buchholz and Bautista can do but when you have a guy who goes Rick Ankiel at random times, sending him out in a 1 run ball-game when you are trying to keep your season alive might not be the brightest decision.

BTW, I like Hurdle and I don't tend to agree with about half of the complaints that I hear about him but stringing together a significant number of questionable decisions this early in the season is not doing much for a reputation that was already battered as the result of managing teams with inferior talent for so many years.

by MADness on May 8, 2007 9:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

True, but
the choice of Bautista should not be the biggest question.  Perhaps McClellan could have pitched consecutive days (or not, we don't know his status), but after that, the rest of the pen before Corpas and Fuentes is no better, but some worse than Bautista.  

So I don't think the decision for Bautista should be questioned, but whether or not a reliever should have been used in the seventh is the debate.  I think it's a toss up.  The team was not scoring, and if Baker reaches base and starts a rally, Hurdle would have made the right call.  As I stated, Buchholz wasn't necessarily dominating, and he lacks the track record to bank on continued success in the seventh.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have pinch hit for Taylor either, but I don't think this was some gross error in judgment.  This is probably drawing too much attention away from the fact that the only offense was generated on a poorly located sinker.  After Holliday this team was dormant.

by David OhNo on May 8, 2007 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree
With some of your points but the fact of the matter is Buchholz was pitching a very good ballgame. I don't see how you can be lucky and pitch 6 innings of shutout ball. Yeah he doesn't have a great track record but then again does Bautista? No. Hurdle should've stayed with the guy who was hot and looking comfortable. More hitting would've been great but it didn't happen, who says you can't win 1-0 games? You have to be able to win any kind of game you're in, whether it be a slugfest or a pitchers duel.

Bottom line is we're sitting at 14-19, tied for the 3rd worst record in the national league, and need to change that quickly or else it's going to be another hugely disappointing campaign ending with a lot more questions then answers.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think you understand
what I mean when I say Buchholz was lucky.  Over the course of the year, the average pitcher will most likely give up an average of .300-ish on balls put in play (taking away strikeouts).  Some pitchers are better than others at keeping this number lower more often than bad pitchers, but for the most part this stat will be pretty random from year to year.  To again be fair to Buchholz, he was one of the team's more unlucky pitchers to start the year, with a BABIP of .410 coming into the game, which directly relates to the 8.04 ERA he carried into the game today.  

If you were to take a neutral pitcher, and I told you that he wouldn't strike anybody out, or walk anybody for 21 batters,and these 21 would hit a mix of balls in the air and on the ground faily evenly, you'd probably expect 6-7 of those 21 to have hits, which would mean there would be 14-15 outs, which is roughly 5-6 innings.  If these hits get spread out fairly evenly, then your pitcher may stay unharmed, but if a couple occur in one inning, it will lead to a run.  There's also a chance that with 21 opportunities for a hit or error, more than those 6-7 will reach base, maybe some games 10 will, and if enough happen close together, runs will be allowed.  On the flip side, maybe only four guys get hits, which makes it more likely they will be spaced out, and it will be harder for runs to be scored.  Buchholz lived on the right side of the spectrum today, but with this type of outing, he's just as likely as getting on the wrong side, where ten of the 21 get hits, and some close together where he allows three runs.  As long as he's not walking guys, it shouldn't get out of hand, but you need more strikeouts, or a Wang, Carmona, Cook -esque GB% to avoid random chance.

Just chalked this game up as the fates of baseball paying back Buchholz for his unlucky start, but as the game proves cruel too often, a win was too much to ask for.

by David OhNo on May 8, 2007 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Alright
I can see where you're coming from with that. It makes more sense now. I just thought he was pitching a solid game and had good stuff on this given night and he should've stayed in the game. But we can argue it to death and it won't change what happenned. We just gotta improve, players and coaches.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Even with those probablities...
leave him in until he starts to deviate toward the norm.  Whatever the seasonal probabilities may be, a shutout's a shutout, and the pitch count's low.  With one out, we don't have a great probability of scoring a run, no matter who's hitting.  In one game, a shutout's a shutout, no matter the peripheral stats.  Unless the pitcher throwing it has thrown too many pitches, he should be allowed to pitch until his shutout's in danger.

by jlikesrockies on May 9, 2007 2:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

Another thing
That's pretty obvious at this point is the bullpen is absolutely atrocious. I have no confidence in anyone to get big outs including Fuentes. A bad bullpen usually equals a bad team. This is not Hurdle's fault.

by stuntdaddy1 on May 8, 2007 10:01 PM MDT reply actions  

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