Wednesday Rockpile: Bring back Josh Fogg?

by Russ on Nov 19, 2008 7:48 AM MST in Rockpile Comment 34 comments

In his latest blog entry at All Things Rockies, Troy Renck suggests a possible return to Coors for Josh Fogg:

–The Rockies have yet to express interest in free agent starter Josh Fogg. He makes a lot of sense as a late winter signing given that the team always need depth and Fogg is a great clubhouse presence.

I actually like this idea. Bringing him in to offer competition for the back end of the rotation is a good idea. With Cook, Jimenez, and Francis already the beginning and middle of the rotation and Jorge De La Rosa the likely fourth starter, Greg Smith needs to know that he isn't guaranteed that fifth spot. I want him to work during Spring Training; he can't just go out and coast through his starts. There are worse depth signings than Josh Fogg. [cough]Mark Redman[/cough] But I'm not going to be sentimental about Fogg--I was never a big fan of his when he was with the Rockies.

Also, Renck offers his view on signing Orlando Hudson:

–There’s been some chatter that the Rockies will make a play for free agent second baseman Orlando Hudson. He would fit based on his energy, personality and production. But I don’t see it. Hudson is going to command a hefty contract in years and dollars, a commitment that’s hard to see the Rockies making given their strong devotion to prospects.

Is that to mean we're going to see Chris Nelson take second base when/if he makes the majors? Because right now, there is no standout second base prospect ready to make the jump to the majors. Clint Barmes and Jeff Baker are already here; Eric Young, Jr. is becoming more of a utility player; and Ian Stewart's future is not at second base. So, if years on a contract is one reason why the Rockies won't pursue Hudson, I'd expect to see Nelson make his debut for the Rockies in a season or two.

Last week, the Chicago White Sox offered $5M to break their lease and leave Tucson. The offer was accepted yesterday. The Rockies are now looking at what to do after their lease expires in 2011.

Back when SB Nation's Driveline Mechanics went live, Rox Girl mentioned that it's probably better for a player not to be written about over there since those pieces highlight problems. Well, if anyone is holding out hope that Stephen Strasburg could fall from the top of the draft to the Rockies, take a gander at this. It might temper some thoughts about him.

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Comments

I mentioned that it's better for a player to

not be mentioned over there, I’m assuming that’s what you meant.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 7:58 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Whatever do you mean?

"Never Surrender Dreams" - Inscription on J. Michael Straczynski's bench

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Nov 19, 2008 8:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know, must have been imagining things.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 8:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramon Ramirez traded

for Coco Crisp…..

Second half run?

by moomacher on Nov 19, 2008 7:59 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I actually like who we got for him better.

JDLR is a lot better than most people outside hardcore Rockies fans are realizing.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 8:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just glad that JDLR appears to be decent

because for a while that trade was looking lopsided

Second half run?

by moomacher on Nov 19, 2008 8:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely it was, and I'd say at the time we made that trade

That I’d gladly rather have Crisp. It was a huge gamble by O’Dowd that worked out very well.

The NL’s top ten in FB velocity in 2008 according to Fangraphs:

1. Ubaldo Jimenez 94.9
2. Tim Lincecum 94.1
3. Clayton Kershaw 94.0
4. C.C. Sabathia 93.8
5. Edinson Volquez 93.6
6. Josh Johnson 93.5
7. Johnny Cueto 93.4
8. Jorge De La Rosa 92.8
9. Mike Pelfrey 92.7
10. Roy Oswalt 92.6

The thing was that De La Rosa was rising. In May, when he sucked, his FB was registering just 90.7, but in August and September he added 3 mph to that, 93.5 in August, 93.7 in September. If he comes back in April with that same velocity, he’s more a #2 starter than a #4.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 8:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

There was some luck to it

JDLR always had great stuff, and was kinda big prospect when he came up with the Brewers, but never became a pitcher, same when he went to the Royals. The Rockies bought low, and was a reach thinking they could get him to do what the Brewers and Royals could not do. But it was last season, with the Rockies where it all “clicked”. The odd of it clicking were against him, but the Rockies I think got a deal now that it has.

I didn’t have the numbers you had, to back up my claim, that George of the Rose would be one of the best #4 in baseball. Now…he needs to repeat. Really JDLR is one of the big keys in the Rockies hopes for success in 09, as he has (had) gone from bust to something (almost) special. If he continues he really boosts the rotation.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Nov 19, 2008 8:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Dragon Slayer part II..?

hell no. If he gets the league minimum on an invite, sure. But Josh “7.58 ERA” Fogg is not going be much more benefical than watching Greg Reynolds get shelled every 5th day.

InToddwetrust

by InToddwetrust on Nov 19, 2008 9:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I don’t dislike Fogg (though in 50 years when I tell my grandkids that the Rox actually went to the World Series, and that I was there, and then I remember that Josh Fogg was the starter, it might kill me). That said, no reason to bring him in. Below average pitching depth is not a problem. We need to see which of the young kids can play, and something tells me that Fogg will find a way into the rotation if he’s on the team.

by Teekalong on Nov 19, 2008 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think my memory's going to go hazy

And I’ll tell my grandkids that it was U-ball that I saw start at Coors that night, and then the onus will be on them to look up b-ref and prove me wrong.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Smith Coasting During Starts

Russ! Russ! Russ! Please expand on your comment about not wanting Smith to coast during any of his starts. Too much idle time on your hands! Based upon the games I attended in which Smith pitched, it didn’t look like he coasted at all. Did you know that in 20 of this 32 starts, the A’s scored 2 runs or less. Maybe it was the offense that coasted? Knowing Smith as I do, he’ll be ready and focused come Spring Training. He has the mentality to learn from last season. He is crafty and has been compared to a young Tom Glavine. I would not judge his yet-to-be Colorado performance on last year’s numbers. He was a non-roster invitee to the A’s Spring training and made their decision for a 5th starter very difficult. After a month in AAA, he was called up due to injuries to the pitching staff. He did pretty well in most scouts eyes considering he had never pitched in the majors and the lack, of offensive support. Don’t be so quick to judge. Give him and Gonzalez a chance.

by TexasTodd on Nov 19, 2008 12:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I never claimed

that he did coast during starts. I’m just saying that competition provides incentive for him to actually prove himself. If he doesn’t have any competition during Spring Training, is Smith going to show his best to assure us that he belongs in the rotation?

"Never Surrender Dreams" - Inscription on J. Michael Straczynski's bench

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Nov 19, 2008 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Competition

I agree with you on the competition factor unless we sign a Randy Johnson for a year, but I won’t hold my breath that he would even come here in the first place.

Even without another sp, the competition will be strong with Hirsch, Reynolds, Smith and Morales. I still think a healthy (big if) beats out the other three for 2009 and JDLR has a short leash if he struggles with his control.

I wouldn’t be oppoesed to inviting Fogg to camp for the competition in a non-guaranteed contract. He never got right last year and at his best is a mediocre pitcher, but he provides a lot of the intangibles the pitching staff. He had a great way of keeping pitchers loose before their starts which we obvoiusly didn’t have last year. Wish we could just bring him in to hang out with the team.

by brainteaser on Nov 20, 2008 8:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Let the Halladay rumors begin, again

Toronto is in on the A.J. Burnett free-agent negotiations, but some think they’re just in it to make things look good, and that the Blue Jays actually will cut payroll. That wouldn’t necessitate trading Halladay, but he is slated to make $30 million over the next two years, could bring back a treasure trove of talent and may not want to stick around in Toronto if the Jays decide to rebuild. Toronto did some quiet snooping around the trade deadline to see what kind of package they could get if they did put Halladay on the market, and the Dodgers were said to be the potential trade partner they found most appealing.

link

I know its a pipedream, but didn’t we just free up like $13 million in payroll for next year? Or does it even make sense to raid the farm to get Doc for two years if the team is not going to be contending.

Second half run?

by moomacher on Nov 19, 2008 12:08 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

The team is going to be contending.

Getting Halladay would be a huge pick-up to help us along, though. What would you give up for him? Something tells me they’re not going to take an Atkins/Daniel Mayora/Connor Graham package. Nelson/Chacin another prospect and a decent guy off our 25 man would seem to be more in line with what they’d want. Nelson/Chacin/McKenry/Street? I’d probably take that from the Blue Jays end, giving up Chacin might be too much to part with from the Rockies side.

by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2008 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking

Chacin/Nelson/Random minor league bat (Holcomb?)/One of the 4/5 starters we have, like Hirsh or Reynolds. I just don’t see how the Blue Jays could deal Halladay and not get the other team’s best pitching prospect in return.

Second half run?

by moomacher on Nov 19, 2008 1:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Chacin

It would obviously take some premium talent to make a trade like this but I would really hate to see Chacin go.

It might be the smart move to make but it would be a difficult decision to make if I was the GM.

Or maybe not.

Halladay would definitely make them a contender next year and is a hometown guy. He would instantly silence the allegations that the Rockies aren’t serious about winning or contending and he would almost surely sell tickets.

by MADness on Nov 19, 2008 3:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd do it in a NY minute

The return is virtually guaranteed, while the future of Chacin is not. Halladay would sell major tickets, and, as you said, quiet the pitchfork and torch crowd.

RockiesMagicNumber started a Fanpost earlier this year about a possible Halladay for Holliday trade. I was an ardent supporter of the idea of snagging Halladay then. I’m not about to change my mind now.

I cannot say whether things will get better if we change; what I can say is they must change if they are to get better. -Georg C. Lichtenberg:

by rockhead on Nov 19, 2008 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You non-NYC dwellers

and your New York minute. . . .

"Never Surrender Dreams" - Inscription on J. Michael Straczynski's bench

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Nov 19, 2008 8:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I know, I know

Blame it on Don Henley. ;)

I cannot say whether things will get better if we change; what I can say is they must change if they are to get better. -Georg C. Lichtenberg:

by rockhead on Nov 19, 2008 10:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Would Halladay

come with a contact extension? Chacin would be hard to lose…but for Halladay? That’s a High A pitcher for a perennial Cy Young candidate.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Nov 19, 2008 5:15 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

How pragmatic it is for the Rockies to acquire Halladay. But in my opinion, he’s easily the best starter in baseball

by Resolution on Nov 19, 2008 6:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

any chance

We and try to pry David DeJesus? They are over stocked at outfield and he has been playing Left field last season.

by Jester76 on Nov 19, 2008 6:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe if he was right handed, but we don't need another lefty bat

I’d like to see the Rockies get in on Rocco Baldelli. He can’t play everyday because of his condition, and could service as a good caddie to Hawpe in right, with spot starts in center.

by David OhNo on Nov 19, 2008 6:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I was

originally high on Baldelli because I assumed there was a cure or some way to alleviate the symptoms of his condition temporarily. I then read some thing that basically said Baldelli wakes up, takes a cocktail of pills every morning and is exempt from team workouts because they may or may not fatigue him too much. He pretty much avoids serious physical exertion. Maybe if the Rockies had a DH spot they needed to fill I’d be on board for Baldelli because I still believe the guy can hit and is a great player but I really wouldn’t be able to make sense of a team paying for him to play the field regularly or be a platoon/bench player…

by Resolution on Nov 19, 2008 7:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone have any thoughts

on who might be in AAA and who might be in AA to start the season. I would love to be able to see Nelson in the Springs, but somehow I am sensing he will start in Tulsa. I think we will get to see Fowler and possibly Gonzalez. I am guessing EY2 will also be w/ the Sky Sox.

What are the thoughts on the middle infield? Are we looking at Herrera, Q, and possibly Nelson and even EY2 there? Any thoughts on pitching? I am guessing McKenry will not be moved all the way to AAA, he will likely be in Tulsa.

by smokinRox on Nov 19, 2008 9:42 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Middle infield

AAA in 2009 is going to have a mumble jumble, musical chairs middle infield with mainly Herrera at SS and Q at 2B. EY2 and Wimberly will also get time at 2B. I believe you are right about Nelson being in AA. He will team up with Daniel Mayora… with Chris getting the majority of his starts at his new position, 2B. Hector Gomez will be at SS in Modesto with Everth Cabrera at 2B.

You’re correct about McKenry being at Tulsa. There’s no reason to jump him to AAA especially since Jhoulys Chacin and Aneury Rodriguez will be in Tulsa with him.

by roxhead on Nov 21, 2008 12:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm now doubting that Nelson's going to be back in AA

Thanks to a strong last month and his showing in the AFL. The Rockies have let Doug Bernier and Jayson Nix leave, Q will likely be with the MLB squad as the next post down indicates, leaving Herrera and Nelson as the AAA starters with EY2 and WImberly playing utility roles.

by Rox Girl on Nov 21, 2008 5:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Q

If Q makes the big league roster, then one of the others gets the axe… Jeff Baker or Clint Barmes. Unlike Brainteaser below, I don’t think they keep all three. Barmes can do everything Q can do but a little bit better so there’s no sense having 2 of those same type players on the roster at the same time (except Q hits from the left side)…. besides that, Q is a safe choice to have as a backup in AAA because he will be the easiest to move through waivers. Try moving Clint down to the Springs and you’ll be watching him in another uniform 24 hours later on MLB.com.

by roxhead on Nov 21, 2008 12:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Why axe one?

Even though I’d prefer it if they did to open a spot for EY2, I’m not sure I see a need from the team’s perspective. The bench has Torrealba and Smith for sure. One of Baker/Barmes starts at second (it better be Baker) one goes to the bench. That takes three of five slots, one of the other two remaining slots will go to the OF for a center fielder, possibly CarGon if he can’t cut it as a starter in a Hawpe/Spilly/Stewart alignment (again I’d rather move Atkins, but this is the way the team has it). If CarGon’s the starter, it’s more likely that Baker would then be the starter at second and the team would use Barmes as the backup CF/super-utility with Q as the defensive infield sub. If Barmes is the starter at second, Q would still be the primary defensive IF sub. So the bench would still have two primary OF’s and two primary IF’s any way I see it. What am I missing?

by Rox Girl on Nov 21, 2008 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Multi tasking

I was thinking that the team has enough players who can play multiple positions already without wasting a spot on Q who can be stashed in the Springs.

Barmes 2B, SS, 3B, CF
Baker 2B, 3B, 1B, LF, RF
Atkins 3B, 1B
Stewart 3B, LF, 1B?
Why a weak hitting Q?

Why not use the last roster spot on a veteran PH bat from the right side or a extra arm in the pen?

I see your argument.. I just don’t know why the roster needs to be overly versatile. The late inning infield defense will be fine if you move Stewart in to 3B and sit Garrett. I would rather have a big bopper waiting in the wings to the win the game or at least make the other manager use another pitcher late in the game which he won’t have to do if he sees Q moving the dirt around in the batters box.

by roxhead on Nov 21, 2008 4:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Q

Q is on the major league roster to stay unless he gets traded. Barmes will start at 2nd. Baker will super-sub at 1st, 2nd, 3rd and the corner OF to get him 450 ab’s or so. Q with his defense and ability to do some little things with the bat as a ph has to be able to come off the bench and play either MI . With two catchers and a backup CF, it will allow the Rockies to carry 12 pitchers early on while they see while they figure out their bullpen.

by brainteaser on Nov 20, 2008 9:04 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

12 pitchers

Every team in baseball – at least every NL team, there might be an AL team or two that carry 11 – carries 12 pitchers these days. Maybe you meant 13, which is possible with the four-man bench of Smith, Q, Baker, and Backup Catcher Du Jour.

I still think we could use another righty bat in the outfield. Baldelli would fit the bill nicely, but there have to be some other options out there. As it stands, the Rox would probably prefer to sit Hawpe and Gonzalez against most lefty starters. Baker can give Hawpe a break, but Smith, the other CF option, is lefthanded himself.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Nov 20, 2008 9:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs