How about some hot stove league Rockie rumors?
by Redhawk on Nov 24, 2008 8:36 PM MST
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PrintTime for some good old fashion rumor mongering. I have a friend who has a friend that works for the Rockies. These situations always start out a little iffy. Also this friend's source hasn't been 100% all the time in the past.
But here's the latest Rumors that I've heard (I really don't think any of these are surprises)
1) Matt Holliday, let the Rockies know that he was mentally moving on, that he was over Denver and ready for the next phase of his career. This happened through his Uncle.
2) The Rockies really like Carlos Gonzalez and think he will be a very good player, and really they think the park impact moving from Oakland to Coors will help him out, as will just being a year more experienced.
3) The Rockies do not want to give Willie Tavares away, and if they can't get something for him, will just have him be a defensive and base running substitute bench player. Also they don't know if Dexter Fowler and/or Gonzales is quite ready, and may start the year in AAA and they don't want another situation like what happened with pitching last year. (Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Tavares isn't a spring training decision for a trade)
4) Pitching. The Rockies are interested in Brad Penny, but don't want to over pay. They think the market will be way down for free agents this year, and want to buy low, ala the Reds last year with Josh Fogg, but the players will have to find out before adjusting their salary demands. But if the Rockies have to over pay, they will stick with Reynolds, Hirsh, Smith and Morales for a 5th starter.
5) The Rockies really want a lefty bullpen guy....and that is why they got Smith in the trade with Oakland.
6) The Rockies want and plan to have Ian Stewart start at 3rd, and Garrett Atkins is gone. Any posing on the Rockies part of having Garret back is just that, to drive up trade value.
7) The Rockies are not pursuing Orlando Hudson or any big name free agent......
8) Lastly, The Rockies are VERY worried how the economy and a mediocre 08 will affect ticket sales. Specifically they are worried about the corporate box suites, and big package groups. This was one factor in the Holliday trade. It's also why the Rockies haven't been rumored to be in on any free agents. Seems a lot of front office people are a little worried about being laid off. (Is there anyone with a job in America, not having the same worry right now?)
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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Re 8, seems like trading away your best and most marketable player isn’t exactly going to lead to a big surge in ticket sales. I would bet they give back some the $13 million in “savings” from dumping Holliday’s contract in lower ballpark revenues.
Second half run?
You'd think
but the Rockies are really worried about ticket sales. There should be normal decline from the high of the post World Series sales last year…throw in a tough economy, and it could get ugly with or with out Holliday. Without, there is some savings…but the Rockies were actually happy it seemed with the trade, and getting Gonzales. (Geeked was the word my friend used), and getting Holliday’s salary off the books, getting bullpen help made it a win all around.
Mid December is when most renewals are due. Then I would guess they would have a better read on the situation.
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
This is true...
And when this effect is added to the economic downturn, the team has put itself in kind of a bind that could result in handicapping it with a bottom five payroll down the road. I think the team needs to have a rebound in 2009 to restore the confidence of the Rocktober bandwagoners who have been jumping ship, or its ability to keep any players beyond their cost controlled years would be in jeopardy. I think the situation is pretty much the same in Phoenix, or maybe even a little worse since the D-backs actually extended their payroll too far last season for nothing.
Winning will be the best remedy to muddle through the recession. Looking at the attendance dips in the early thirties shows that the Rockies concerns are justified, but the consistently competitive teams barely suffered relative to everybody else. What the Rockies can’t really afford over the next five years are lapses like 2008. Looking at the 30’s attendance of the Cubs (who were consistently over .500 through the decade, even if they didn’t win every year) vs the Cardinals (who were up and then down and then up and then down and then up again) drives this point home. The Cubs hit a bottom in 1933 of about 7500 fans/game, while St. Louis was all over the place but could barely crack 5000/game in their 92 win year in 1939, and their best season was only about 6500/game a year after they won the WS in 1934, when they only had 4200/game see the eventual champs.
The Rockies have a relatively young team with the talent to be competitive over the next few seasons, but I really don’t think they could afford another sub-.500 year and remain viable. 2008’s deep setback hurt us a lot.
Sheeshhh...
Sounds like you’re thinking Depression.. not a Recession.
You just Bummed out my whole day!
I just see that as the closest parallel
To the economic forecasts I’ve seen, even if we don’t actually get that bad off, that of a crash followed by several years of only small economic growth or stagnation. You’ve got to understand that given the population/economic growth we’ve had over the last seventy seasons that I’m not seeing teams averaging those specific numbers, but the patterns will probably be similar. Teams that maintain success will probably be able to sustain their 2007-2008 attendance levels, those that don’t are going to see some severe dips.
These are great points
but the idea I get both from my observations and from what I hear, is the Rockies can not afford to go in the red at all. Period. There is no more there, there. The savings account is at zero. They have to pay as they go, they HAVE to stay in the black. Remember not to long ago, MLB gave several teams loans to stay solvent? My understanding was 2 of those teams getting those loans were the Rockies and the D-Backs. But now, there is no more loans to get from MLB.
So with that out there, they want to field the best team they can (like getting young players like Gonzales), and hopefully stay near .500. The Rockies seem to be playing it ultra conservatively as they can’t guess wrong. If given the choice, they would have a very low salary, and be in the black even if that meant losing seasons. But using your 1930’s that didn’t work well for the St. Louis Browns or the Boston Braves.
There seems to be a chasm opening up between the rich and middle class teams in baseball, and it’s getting bigger every year. Those teams on that chasm are trying to figure out which way to jump. Seattle and Detroit want to lower payroll. Atlanta, Texas, San Fran, and San Diego have in the last 5 years. Houston has added, and Toronto wants to both add, and tighten it seems.
I worry the Rockies will wind up in Hooverville Pirates-ville
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
That's exactly what I'm saying, actually...
When I said that the Rockies need to win, and win consistently (and I thought doing it cheaply was a given) to remain viable. Losing consistently could result in catastrophe. Winning inconsistently like those Cards teams just means that it will take longer to build the franchise after the storm, while winning consistently should allow them to come out with a vibrant brand that could withstand decades of futility at a profit like those Cubs teams. Although, now that I’m saying this, maybe that Cardinals model isn’t so bad.
on the lower sales
I’ve heard that as many as 50% of the suites may be unsold in 2009 for the Rockies. And most of that is due to economy, not the quality of play.
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
The quality of play would broaden the pool
to replace those lost sales, however. I have no doubt that there’s no way around having the economy impact the bottom lines of all teams to some degree, it’s just a question of how much, and this is where the quality comes into play if you don’t already have the established brand like the heavyweights. The Rockies have been fairly smart about it up to this point by not going crazy with salary the last few years (I hear Houston’s getting a reality check right now) but given the cutbacks all around, there will be an opportunity over the next two/three seasons for one of the San Diego/Arizona/Colorado trio to take a significant branding step up on the other two and make up a little ground in that department on the Dodgers and Giants if they’re better/smarter at building a competitive team. The big wrench in that scenario would be for LA to go on a dynastic run instead, given their built in advantages there’s a pretty high likelihood for that, but more and more I’m seeing the 2009-2011 seasons as a sort of death-match between us and the Snakes over who will come out of the recession with a real brand advantage for the remainder of the next decade.
I believe it
Considering it’s mostly corporate suites, as you mentioned before, I’m sure that’s among the first things to get cut when companies are tightening their belts. Heck, one of the groups (not mine) in my company got their holiday party canceled in JULY. Companies are cutting down on unnecessary travel, perks, etc. I have no doubt that most of those unsold suites have nothing to do with the team. I suspect it’s much the same for a lot of teams.
But, as Rox Girl says below, start winning and some of those suites might get sold during the season.
Dare say.. Cut seat prices?
Supply and Demand equation.
Professional sports never follow this rule… perhaps they should if 50% of the suites go unsold.
That would be one solution
or, package opening day tickets with another game like they did last year, or July 4th (not looking at the schedule) with other games. But you are right, sports don’t follow supply and demand, they seem to follow, “lets see how much we can get until the fans feel hurt”.
Now, I’m not talking Rockies specifically but pro sports in general, the walk up buyer is just icing. Bills are paid off of season tickets and corporate sponsors both advertising, and the Corporation buying a block of tickets. But like Holly96 points out, there is belt tightening everywhere. If you can cut out Christmas, you can cut out baseball tickets. A business doesn’t need baseball tickets to survive.
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
It'll be the suite prices that get cut
Rockies tickets are still, as I recall, in the bottom 5-6 clubs in average ticket prices, MLB-wide.
I think a lot of clubs are waiting until game day sales start to see where sales are compared to last year. I’m sure the Rox already expect season ticket sales to go down based solely on the club’s performance in 2008, even without the impact of the economy.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
This I am thankful for...
With it being thanksgiving in the morning out there… I thought I’d pass on that. It’s nice to be able to go to a game for less then a tank of gas. And that’s not counting the occasional adult beverage thrown in for good measure.
You know you want to check out Matt's Korea blog: http://koreamatt.wordpress.com
by MattTheRock on Nov 26, 2008 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Cut seat prices
I’ve never figured why they don’t cut prices to fill up the joint. The ticket price is only one part of the equation. If you get fannies in the seats, you stand to gain from increased concessions, souviner sales, parking revenue and on and on.
You can only get top dollar if you have a first class product. And we don’t have it yet.
I am also thankful for the ticket prices the rockies have had....
it has made it possible for myself and my mom and/or friends to attend more games at Coors.Our playoff tickets from 07, with the exception of Game 4 of the WS, were all cheaper or the same as it would be to go to go see the Avs/Nuggets/Broncos etc. in the regular season and the playoff seats were good seats to boot! The Rockies also have good ticket deals for 2 or 4 people that we often take advantage of and these tix are on field level. It has made my mom (who likes other sports and teams, especially the Avs) not even want to go see the other sports teams because it’s such a rip-off in comparison. That and she says win or loss with the Rockies it’s always an adventure. I really hope they have some kind of package again for the home opener against the Phillies…I’m really excited for that series. Ah, I miss baseball…March cannot come soon enough!
Re-sign Everyday Atty!
by AtkinsandTulofan on Nov 26, 2008 1:26 PM MST reply actions
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