Mets turned down Street for Heilman plus Feliciano

MetsBlog links to a Joel Sherman post which says that the Rockies would have traded Huston Street to the Mets for Aaron Heilman and Pedro Feliciano, but that Omar Minaya wouldn't pull the trigger. I'm not sure which GM looks worse in this scenario.

about 1 year ago Rox Girl 20 comments 0 recs |

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Still not sure...

What the hurry to get rid of Street and/or Smith is.

TGFPR!!

by jlot10 on Nov 25, 2008 7:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Rockies hurry to make trades

Not sure what the hurry was in trading Matt in November. Rocks seem in an awful hurry to reconfigure this team. This team can’t wait to get rid of its core players in my opinion.

by pedalpusher on Nov 25, 2008 8:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if there is one,

Particularly seems to be no hurry to lose Smith as I haven’t really heard his name brought up other than fan speculation. I think in this case O’Dowd thought that two potential one win relievers could be worth one two win reliever, but that’s not usually the case.

The other scenario that I can picture (that fits with Redhawk’s diary) is that the Rockies actually feel that Heilman would be a solid cog in a rotation, and they would then use Smith as the go-to full inning lefty reliever with the belief that he’d be the two-win guy to replace Street (who’s replacing Fuentes), Feliciano would add a win as a strict situational LOOGY, and Heilman would add as much as Smith would have from the fifth starter’s slot.

by Rox Girl on Nov 25, 2008 8:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Do we

even have enough roster spots for this? Who would get removed from the 40 if a trade like this were to happen?

GO ROCKIES!!! JFK

by jrockies on Nov 25, 2008 10:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

that's a good point

So my guess is that if this report is true, it must have happened before the Rockies filled up their roster.

by Rox Girl on Nov 26, 2008 5:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Minaya isn't stupid for turning this down

why would he trade 2 guys for Street who hasn’t been that good at all the last few years…i know heilman isn’t much better in fact there probably even…but if u add feliciano thats a huge advantage on our side for the trade…if i was Minaya i would of laughed at that trade proposal….what’s the hurry for all these moves? Geez O’ dud

Lets Go Silver n Black!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 26, 2008 12:46 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Heilman was pretty terrible last season, much worse than Street, not even

Feliciano’s only good against left handed batters, if you’re looking only at the last couple of seasons performances, Street still winds up marginally ahead of the total contribution from the other two, and he’s younger and the most likely to rebound.

I’m really not sure exactly where you are going with your comment, anyway. On one hand you’re saying Minaya’s smart for turning this deal down, but on the other hand you’re saying O’Dowd’s off for asking for those players to begin with? He just can’t win with you, it seems.

by Rox Girl on Nov 26, 2008 5:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I stopped reading at

the part where he said Street hasn’t been that good at all the past few years. Wow. Quick visit to BB-Ref would clear up that little misconception.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Nov 26, 2008 7:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah he's been so good the last few years...

since his rookie year he has blown 30-35% of his saves over the last 3 years and he is always hurt…yeah he’s been great? Obviously he has upside and is still only 25 but what everybody saw at the beginning of his career might of just been a flash in a pan type of yr. We’ll see if he can turn it around or continue to decline.

Rox girl i was saying O’ dowd was dumb to even think Minaya would take that trade…Feliciano had a bit of a down year last yr but he has been very good otherwise plus Minaya loves him and he wouldn’t let him go in a trade like that at all. I like some of things O’ dowd does obviously he can win with me, i just don’t get what the rush is with all these trades and proposals etc?

Lets Go Silver n Black!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 26, 2008 8:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Just take into account

that some of us here don’t find saves to be a particularly effective measure of “good.”

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by Russ Oates on Nov 26, 2008 9:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Pfffff

K-rod: Best pitcher EVER?!

It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time It's Tulowitzki!...Tulo-witzki-witzki-witzki ..... rockiesmagicnumber.blogspot.com

by Andrew Martin on Nov 26, 2008 10:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Is a strikeout per inning good?

Is two wins worth of WXRL in 2008 good? A career WHIP of 1.07, career 2.88 ERA, career .215 OAVG, 9.1 K/9, 2.6 BB/9… are those good things?

Anybody who wouldn’t look at Huston’s career peripheral stats, even those of the last ‘few years’ and conclude “Hey, this guy’s a pretty darn good pitcher,”… I guess I just don’t understand how that would be the conclusion drawn.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Nov 26, 2008 9:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

er, how that WOULDN'T be the conclusion drawn

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Nov 26, 2008 9:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

this is a stupid arguement i wasn't putting the guy down forever

i said he had been declining and what proof do we have that he will 100% turn it around lol…we’re all on the same side here….btw when u bring those numbers out those are about the same as our shaky/wild/crazy closer from last yr mr. tito. I don’t know if my heart can deal with another one of those type of pitchers lol.

Lets Go Silver n Black!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 26, 2008 10:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Fuentes

is awesome. I’m not sold on the whole “9th inning mentality” because a good pitcher is a good pitcher. Using your best reliever strictly in the 9th is stupid anyhow, it isn’t necessarily the highest leverage situation.

He lost his closing role in 2007 because of A. a hurt oblique and B. BABIP. He just got unlucky, it happens. It doesn’t make a guy a bad pitcher.

Saves are fake. A pitcher gets a blown save if the defense makes 20 errors in one inning and gives up the lead. You should use things like WHIP and K/BB and GB% to evaluate a pitcher’s value, if you don’t have time/ability to look deeper into VORP and WXRL and DERA and the like.

http://www.fangraphs.com has a lot of those types of numbers, and then some more.

It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time It's Tulowitzki!...Tulo-witzki-witzki-witzki ..... rockiesmagicnumber.blogspot.com

by Andrew Martin on Nov 26, 2008 10:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

i do use WHIP and K/BB and K/9 and all that into account

i agree with you completely….Fuentes isn’t a bad pitcher…very very inconsistent though and you can’t really afford to have one of those for the long haul these days in baseball and yes i know it’s very tough and rare to find somebody like a Rivera or a Nathan or a Papelbon.

Lets Go Silver n Black!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 26, 2008 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

Fuentes is inconsistent at all let alone very very inconsistent. If you look at Fuentes’ monthly ERA splits you’ll see some variation but if you take into account the small amount of innings a closer accumulates in 1 month (usually somewhere around 11 if the team is decent) plus the home park Fuentes pitched in, it absolves him of some monthly inconsistency. He’s also a lefty so is usually at a platoon-disadvantage which doesn’t help. Kyle Farnsworth seems like a better example of very very inconsistent…

by Resolution on Nov 26, 2008 4:26 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

w.e i can't win lol

anything i say you guys disagree with lol…but i’ll say one last thing…or actually ask one last thing…how is he not inconsistent? lol…we are all very knowledgeable rockies fans i understand that….but Resolution do you watch all the games?

Some days he looks completely unhittable striking out the side etc etc. Some days he walks a few guys, loads the bases or allows a big homer and implodes and he also goes through spurts where he’s very good and pretty bad.

Lets Go Silver n Black!!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 26, 2008 4:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a little surprised...

reading the comments here that nobody is posting against this deal. I, for one, would have been disappointed if the Rockies had made the deal. Living in the shadow of NY, I know that most Mets fans would hvae been thrilled. I just think you could get much better value for Street. I know that the pendulum has swung back in terms of value of ‘closing experience’, but I have to think that there has to be some old school G.M. out there willing to overpay for Street, especially if O’Dowd waits until July.

by DenverBears on Nov 27, 2008 6:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you're misunderstanding the commentary

It seems most of us are against this exchange, with one person arguing in favor of it, or at least in a belief that the Rockies would get the better end of the deal if it took place. I think O’Dowd’s a bit off for asking for those two pitchers for Street even if I think I see where he’s coming from, but not nearly as off as Minaya is for turning the deal down.

I think a big issue that might be getting missed in this is how relatively little value relief pitchers have during the winter when it comes to trades. Street’s more likely to fetch a greater return this summer.

by Rox Girl on Nov 27, 2008 8:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs