Projecting NL West Defense 2009
The numbers below come from Tango's Fans scouting reports and Sean Smith's forecasts linked yesterday. For the Tango numbers, I'm pretty sure 50 represents an average defender.
Arizona:
- Chris Young 69 (-1)
- Chris Snyder 64
- Stephen Drew 62 (-9)
- Augie Ojeda 61 (-2)
- Justin Upton 53 (0)
- Mark Reynolds 41 (-8)
- Chad Tracy 39 (-2)
- Conor Jackson 34 (-1)
There seems to be a considerable disconnect between what D-backs fans are seeing their defenders do and what the objective analysis says they've been doing. I think it might be a situation where excellent pitching is making a below average D look better than it really is. Contrast that to Colorado, where poor defense made the pitching look worse in 2008, but projects to turn that around in 2009. At any rate, losing their one true plus defender (besides, perhaps Snyder) in Orlando Hudson is going to inflict a heavy toll on the Diamondbacks in 2009. You all know my bias against Snakes, so take what I say about them with a grain of salt, but I'm hopeful that a further hit on the defense combined with regression to the mean in their pitching staff bumps their runs allowed up to at least the 730 run range for the season (they allowed just 706 in 2008), preferably as much as 750. This would put a lot of pressure on an offense that's probably incapable of scoring 750 themselves, and leave a door open for the Rockies to step up as the main challengers to the Dodgers next year.
Colorado:
- Troy Tulowitzki 77 (+11)
- Carlos Gonzalez 76 (+9)
- Ian Stewart 64 (+2)
- Todd Helton 63 (+8)
- Clint Barmes 59 (+7)
- Ryan Spilborghs 57 (0)
- Chris Iannetta 54
- Brad Hawpe 41 (-15)
- Jeff Baker 41 (-4 2B, -6 OF)
I think Barmes is a little underrated here. Meanwhile, Hawpe could be getting a little too much credit for his arm by the voters, particularly in his accuracy, while for some reason there were too many who thought Willy Taveras threw like Juan Pierre. Tulowitzki is a major factor for the Rockies in 2009, as last season his offense wasn't the only part of his play to suffer through a sophomore slump. The Rockies absolutely need him to rebound to be the defender the fans and numbers say he will be. Without Gonzalez the Fans average score is 57, with him we obviously go up from there.
Los Angeles:
- Matt Kemp 72 (0 corner, -10 CF)
- Russell Martin 71
- Andre Ethier 68 (0)
- Andruw Jones 64 (+1 CF)
- James Loney 62 (+1)
- Blake DeWitt 61 (+5 2B)
- Manny Ramirez 32 (-15)
Call LA the Lake Wobegone of defense, where everybody's above average, at least according to the fans. Their two dynamic young outfielders seem to be the only visible overrates, however. The bad news for the Dodgers is that without re-signing Rafael Furcal, their team defense will be taking a hit in 2009. Similarly to the Rockies 2007, defense was an important part of Los Angeles' run, albeit without as much publicity. There have been signs that Kemp and Ethier have been slipping, Orlando Cabrera projects as a +1 at short, Edgar Renteria as a -6. The Dodgers have been talking to the Pirates about Jack Wilson, who would be an asset (+7) on the field, but he'd be only a marginal player in the lineup. Similarly to the D-backs situation with Orlando Hudson, it seems like there's no way around a downgrade at this position for the Dodgers. Speaking of Hudson, the Dodgers aren't going after Furcal, it could probably be safely assumed that they'll forego the cost of an upgrade at second as well. I'm getting the sense that they're saving their pennies for Manny and a pitcher. Ramirez's bat still more than makes up for his inability to defend, by the way.
San Francisco:
- Randy Winn 69 (+7)
- Emmanuel Burriss 65 (-2 SS, +4 2B)
- Aaron Rowand 65 (0)
- Fred Lewis 52 (1)
- Bengie Molina 51
- Eugenio Velez 38 (-12)
- John Bowker 37 (-1)
- Pablo Sandoval (-3 3B)
I'm starting to see the imperative for San Francisco to sign either Hudson or Furcal, as their projected middle infield's just ugly brutal both offensively and defensively, and you'll note that despite their minor league depth, there's just not a really high quality talent at second or short. They've got a quality defensive outfield, but given how far behind they are offensively from the other three clubs, they could have used a defensive advantage to make up ground. Unfortunately, that advantage is just not there.
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Right now, depending on LA's offseason moves and who wins the Rockies centerfield and second base jobs, it looks like the Rockies or Dodgers will project to be best defensively in the division in 2009. Both will be a good bit ahead of Arizona and San Francisco in this category, but currently neither has the starting pitching of those latter two clubs, so run prevention could still turn out to be very tight among these four. The Rockies actually need it to be, compare the last two seasons:
2008 Runs Allowed:
- Los Angeles 648
- Arizona 706
- San Francisco 759
- Colorado 822
2007 Runs Allowed:
- San Francisco 720
- Los Angeles 727
- Arizona 732
- Colorado 758
I think the recipe for a successful Rockies team in the current NL West is to be in that 750 RA range, while scoring about 850 or so on offense, much like the 2007 squad. If LA only allows 650 again, however, we could be in trouble. I think currently that the Dodgers are a 700 plus allowed team, but there's a lot of offseason left to change that.
Comments
If Conor Jackson's numbers are that low...
That has to be him at first base, and not in LF. He was at least average (if not above average) by most metrics there, certainly not that far below the median. Assuming the front office doesn’t screw up and move him back to first, I would expect his number to reflect much more favorably.
by Azreous on
Nov 30, 2008 4:55 PM MST
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The Fans projection was probably made assuming he was at first,
But that’s a corner outfield projection by Smith. It could just be that there wasn’t enough of a sample as he didn’t start playing there regularly until late in the year.
by Rox Girl on
Nov 30, 2008 5:17 PM MST
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I have just got to know
why do you always leave the friars out of your analysis?
552
by wrveres on
Nov 30, 2008 6:42 PM MST
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We're looking at division contenders.
There’s not really a nice way to say this, but you guys aren’t going to be very good next year. This is an examination of how the Rockies match up with the teams that will truly contend in the West in 09.
Let me take this opportunity to say that I’m really enjoying this series, Rox Girl. Nice work.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
by Franchise26 on
Nov 30, 2008 7:24 PM MST
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Think of it as English Premier League style relegation
Last year I always left the Giants out because I thought San Diego would be the more competitive of the two. It’s mostly out of laziness. At any rate, San Diego’s defense will probably be neutral in the field without acquiring a center fielder. Kouzmanoff and Gerut drag down some positive play at other positions.
by Rox Girl on
Nov 30, 2008 7:31 PM MST
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You do such great work
its a shame to see you routinely leave just one team off.
I thought this might of had something to do with Holliday being out at the plate, but the EPL and laziness .. interesting.
thanks
keep up 9/10 of the great work.
552
by wrveres on
Dec 1, 2008 1:05 AM MST
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Rox Girl's Padres Writing = Kevin Tower's Apathy
I think Rox Girl’s dedication to Padres news matches the Padres’ Front Office dedication to fielding a competitive team in 2009. Maybe if she was writing a blog dedicated to the NL West in its entirety she would be more complete, but until that happens she focuses on news items directly related to how it affects the Colorado Rockies. Hence the name Purplerow.com.
Welcome back Don Baylor. You're like a cold turkey sandwich, an oldie but a goodie!!
by Charlie77 on
Dec 1, 2008 9:44 AM MST
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Considering Furcal only played 35 games,
and Angel Berroa had the most games at SS, I’m not seeing why we (Dodgers) will have a downgrade there. I think signing someone like Orlando Cabrera would probably equal last years production, all things considered. One of 2B or 3B will probably have a dropoff, but we didn’t get much out of those positions anyway. I think the biggest factors in our success will be if we can sign Manny and get his production for the whole year and get someone to somewhat replace Lowe. With Colletti’s record, that probably won’’t happen, and Eckstein will probably be playing second next year.
by Brendan Scolari on
Dec 1, 2008 12:28 AM MST
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I should clarify...
Because just about anything you put at second base is an upgrade over Jeff Kent defensively, as well. By calling short a downgrade I was just referring to the talent level of Furcal, not the 2008 production, or non-production as the case was.
It will be interesting to see how this offseason works out for your team. I think Colletti’s perfectly capable of blowing the Manny Ramirez chase despite the fact that the Dodgers are the only team that really makes sense for him right now. However, assuming you do finally sign Ramirez, once you give up that kind of money, I really don’t think the McCourt’s will afford an equivalent to Lowe in the rotation. They just seem intent on scaling back the operation there, at which point all the combined moves could still just result in a neutral to 2008 club despite getting a full year out of Ramirez. I went into this offseason thinking LA could put the rest of us on ice, but it’s looking more and more like you guys are going to leave a considerable opening for the Rockies or D-backs.
by Rox Girl on
Dec 1, 2008 5:50 AM MST
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Agreed
If we get Manny we won’t get anyone near Lowe’s level probably. And if we get Lowe/CC we won’t get Manny. I hope we get Manny/Renteria/Sheets personally, with the stipulation that Renteria be a 1 year deal or cheap 2 year deal. We’ll probably get a lesser starter than Sheets (RJ/Pettite) plus Colletti will probably waste some money on filler. I just hope to god we don’t sign Garland. But if Manny goes elsewhere, all bets are off.
Should be a good race, although to be honest I think you’re being a little too optimistic regarding the Rockies chances. We definitely won’t pull away though. Love your blog BTW, great stuff.
by Brendan Scolari on
Dec 2, 2008 2:19 AM MST
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Thanks
I’m a little optimistic with the Rockies, sure, I think that’s probably a given, but I really think they have the kind of team that will sneak up on people this year. There aren’t as many holes as we had in 2008, or even 2007, even if there isn’t a bona fide superstar like Holliday. The offense won’t give away nearly as many outs without Taveras and Torrealba sucking up playing time and the pitching staff has gotten much deeper. I think a lot hangs on Jeff Francis rebounding to be at least a quality mid-rotation type, but the chances of that happening aren’t bad.
by Rox Girl on
Dec 2, 2008 6:12 AM MST
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NL West Centerfielders
Here’s a RZR view of the NL West defense.
2008-RZR-OOZ-Team
Gonzalez Carlos .957 42 COL
Young Chris .947 92 ARI
Rowand Aaron .945 68 SF
Jones Andruw .886 40 LA
CarGon is the best Centerfielder based on RZR, however Chris Young makes more out of zone plays in this metric.
Welcome back Don Baylor. You're like a cold turkey sandwich, an oldie but a goodie!!
by Charlie77 on
Dec 1, 2008 9:56 AM MST
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NL West Shortstops
2008-RZR-OOZ-Team
Tulowitzki Troy .884 18 COL
Berroa Angel .871 26 LA
Bocock Brian .857 7 SF
Drew Stephen .788 52 ARI
I assume Berroa and Bocock (great last name) are the current starters in SF and LA. Even with the injury last year it’s clear that Tulo is at the top of this list.
Welcome back Don Baylor. You're like a cold turkey sandwich, an oldie but a goodie!!
by Charlie77 on
Dec 1, 2008 10:07 AM MST
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NL West Catchers
There is no RZR rating for Catchers, but here is a breakdown by assists and fielding percentage.
Name-Team-Pos- A- FPct
Molina Bengie SF 71 .995
Snyder Chris ARI 69 1.000
Martin Russell LA 65 .990
Iannetta Chris COL 51 1.000
Welcome back Don Baylor. You're like a cold turkey sandwich, an oldie but a goodie!!
by Charlie77 on
Dec 1, 2008 10:13 AM MST
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You know, of course,
that those Fan Ratings are next to worthless?
One look at Eric Byrnes’ ratings should tell you everything you need to know.
Chris Young is far and away our best defender — Gold Glove caliber, even. Orlando Hudson has regressed significantly the last 2-3 years and his reputation far exceeds his actual performance on D.
4/1/1983-11/27/2007 * RIP#21 * The Eternal Redskin
by DbacksSkins on
Dec 2, 2008 5:21 PM MST
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You say that the Fans' ratings are next to worthless,
but then talk about Chris Young being “Gold Glove caliber,” which I know doesn’t mean what it sounds like you’re saying (that you prefer the wisdom of the managers and coaches who thought Nate McClouth was “Gold Glove caliber” this season), but you do leave it open to that interpretation. Fans is the one that’s scoring Young as the best defender on your team, so I think your bigger beef would be with the CHONE projection that sees him as run neutral. At any rate, Young wasn’t a big plus on defense prior to 2008, but he was a high caliber defender this past season. He should maintain some of that, but he’s not going to make up for the D-backs’ weaknesses on defense elsewhere around the diamond.
by Rox Girl on
Dec 2, 2008 8:16 PM MST
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No,
the brief rant about the fan ratings was a completely independent thought from the CY/O-Dawg bit, which was more just a general thought on our D. I just considered it a bit silly to use those joke ratings in a serious conversation about defense.
When I say “Gold Glove caliber”, obviously I don’t mean the caliber of defense that wins O-Dawg a GG last year purely on reputation, or Raffy Palmeiro a GG at 1B for playing DH. Let’s just say that the player who plays “Gold Glove caliber defense” doesn’t usually win a Gold Glove. The most important requirement for winning a GG is whether or not you won it last year.
By the way, Rox Girl, you must be pretty pumped that Oregon won the Civil War?
4/1/1983-11/27/2007 * RIP#21 * The Eternal Redskin
by DbacksSkins on
Dec 3, 2008 12:04 AM MST
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Going to our vacay home at the Rose Bowl is always nice
It’s too bad we’ve got some unsavory squatters living there the rest of the season, we’ll just have to drive them off on Saturday like we usually do. ‘SC better do what Oregon State couldn’t, or I’ll be pretty ticked off, but I am glad for the Ducks giving us this opportunity.
by Rox Girl on
Dec 3, 2008 6:29 AM MST
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Well, I'm pumped
that Oregon won the Civil War.
"Never Surrender Dreams" - Inscription on J. Michael Straczynski's bench
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ on
Dec 3, 2008 7:46 AM MST
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I sorta assumed that went without saying.
I don’t know why, but for some reason, I really, really dislike Oregon State.
Could be because they barely beat the ‘Cats due to a single play in the final minute. But I’ve disliked them before this year, too.
And how ‘bout that UA-Oregon game? Jebus…. if Antolin doesn’t drop that 4th down pass, who knows WHAT happens??
4/1/1983-11/27/2007 * RIP#21 * The Eternal Redskin
by DbacksSkins on
Dec 3, 2008 10:02 AM MST
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