Defying PECOTA: How the Colorado Rockies might beat their 2008 projections
Quickly, what's the most important position (non-pitcher) in the Rockies bid to repeat as NL champs this season? Second base? Catcher? According to Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA, our supposed 2008 starters at those two positions project to lose just over two games total from how the primary starters performed at them in 2007. Sure, two games are important, and I'd love to have us reverse that projection, but that isn't nearly the biggest loss BP is saying we take on the field this year and by this measure, they don't qualify as most important. Hawpe, Atkins, Taveras? Nope, those three have a combined drop of a half game in their projections from 2007.
Try our stars. Helton, Tulo and Holliday -who in 2007 combined for a 26.2 WARP1 according to BP- are projected to be just under sixteen wins above their definition of replacement level this year. According to Baseball Prospectus, we're expected to lose over ten wins at first, short and left field by trotting out the same players that we did in 2007. Holliday is expected to decline the most, dropping over four wins from what he gave us in 2007. Helton's projected to give up just under four and Tulo nearly two and a half. Don't blame the numbers or those that use them for this, the age curves and regressions that they are based on have proven very accurate in anticipating future performance. PECOTA also culls historical comparisons from a database of thousands of players to improve its accuracy. So it seems that one of the biggest issues for the Rockies in 2008 that nobody's talking about will be whether Holliday, Helton and Tulo can continue to be all-league caliber rather than just the very good players the numbers seem to be saying they are.
One thing to keep in mind (as Heltonfan points out here) that because of this profiling for similar players, PECOTA seems to have developed a bias against Holliday -whom it's fairly certain is a reincarnation of Ivan Calderon or even more far-fetched, Marty Cordova- that other projections aren't seeing, but all projections I've seen seem to have the team's biggest drops in value coming from the heart and soul of our lineup rather than the peripherals.
So what I'm saying is that, first of all, we shouldn't be surprised when the Rockies show up under-performing according to our expectations in season simulations, but also that it might be interesting to explore the issue of why and how these projections might be undercutting us. The question is that whether or not Rockies fans have any more reason to believe that their team will outperform the projections over any other team's followers. After all, it's probably true of at least twenty-four fan bases (those not expected to come in first in their division) that they will find some fault with whatever set of projections are out there, but do Rockies fans have particular reason to be confident that we will come in ahead of the curve? Obviously, PECOTA's Holliday projection shows an example where this might be the case, as Holliday's no Calderon, and he's certainly no Cordova, yet for the second year in a row, Marty's shown up as one of Matt's four most comparable players according to the projection system. Why the disrespect, then, and could the comparisons be shedding clues to other places the Rockies might be getting underestimated?
The disrespect in comparisons seems to stem from the complications that arise from adjusting for Coors Field, which usually -as seems to be the case for PECOTA and many other projection systems- seems to amount to taking the Rockies home field out of the equation altogether. Marty Cordova's career OPS is .778. Matt Holliday's career OPS outside of Coors is also .778. Coincidence? I doubt it. This fix of heavily weighing Rockies hitters performance while on the road, while simple, becomes problematic in certain cases and Holliday's an excellent example of that. As a team, Rockies hitters put up a .261/.336/.395 line away from Coors Field last season. Holliday put up a respectable .301/.374/.485. When at home, the team (including Holliday) obviously got better, hitting .292/.372/.480, around a 15% increase in OPS from their road stats. Holliday, however, hit a whopping .376/.435/.722 at Coors, representing an increase of over 33% from his road OPS. For his career, Holliday's improvement at home shows a dramatically large spike compared to what the team or Rockies opponents achieve when visiting Coors. The result will have projections that don't take the variations in Coors Field production by different types of players into account drastically underestimate Holliday's output in half of our games.
PECOTA seems to have fallen as heavily into this flub as any projection system I've seen. The end result is that they project our lineup to be equal in value on the season to Arizona's, which is a laughable premise. Are there other players who might be similarly overlooked? Almost to as much of an extent as with Holliday, Troy Tulowitzki appears to be falling into the same category. One pretty good clue is the dramatically high BABIP (Batting Average of Balls In Play) at Coors these two show, Holliday has a career BABIP of .386 at Coors and Tulo already hits .370 when he puts the ball in play while at home. The significance? BABIP's of .370 or more at Coors Field are more reminiscent of Larry Walker (.375 at Coors for his career) than Vinny Castilla (.330) and a solid indication of the legitimacy of a player's bat. Using Coors BABIP as a guide, the third member of the important trifecta I talked about initially, Todd Helton could also be getting the shaft from projections that aren't looking closely enough.
Significant Rockies BABIP's at Coors:
Matt Holliday .386
Andres Gallaraga .378
Larry Walker .375
Troy Tulowitzki .370
Todd Helton .362
Ellis Burks .362
Eric Young .356
Dante Bichette .352
Garrett Atkins .348
Neifi Perez .333
Brad Hawpe .333
Vinny Castilla .330
Yorvit Torrealba .311
Clint Barmes .296
As a side note in researching this post, one effect of the humidor seems to be that it's spread the ranges of BABIP's at Coors, as the team's better hitters put up just about as gaudy stats as they were doing in the pre-humidor days, but lesser hitters aren't getting quite the same benefit anymore.
Alright, I'm just going to put this food for thought up for digestion right now, and I'll probably revisit it later. While what I'm seeing with this makes sense to me, since I'm admittedly not the most mathematically inclined, maybe some of you who are can tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree, here.
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Obviously, this isn't mathematical
by LarryB303 on Feb 13, 2008 1:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
PECOTA
There's nothing wrong with PECOTA's projections for Helton or Tulo; the dropoff in their WARP is mostly due to the expected defensive decline (which is entirely appropriate) and the fact that they're being projected for about 25% less playing time than they had last year (which doesn't matter, because no one seriously uses playing time projections for anything anyway). Their projected batting lines are right where they should be. I don't see any systematic Rockies-specific flaw; it's just Holliday who is getting the shaft because of the stupid selection of comparables.
I know you specified "non-pitcher" at the top of your post, so perhaps this is a wee bit off topic, but if we're trying to project the '08 Rockies by comparing them to the '07 team (a practice which I utterly loathe, but I'll go along with it, I guess), the place where we should be expecting a huge dropoff is the bullpen. Hawkins, Herges, Affeldt, and Julio were worth a combined 4 WAR or so, and we haven't brought in anyone who projects to make up even 10% of that (Vizcaino: not good). And Corpas is in line for a 2-win dropoff, minimum (which is no knock on him; I mentioned this at FanHome a while back, but his '07 season was so good that, if you don't expect a huge dropoff, you're effectively deeming him one of the greatest relievers of all time.).
by Heltonfan on Feb 13, 2008 2:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for replying
I still think that PECOTA's on the wrong track systematically with certain Rockies at the plate, but I think that as your statement indicates that this issue I have might not be confined to just their projection. I feel Silver's 2008 projection underestimates Tulowitzki with the offensive as well as the defensive production, especially given that according to PECOTA, Tulo's comparables aren't that different from Garrett Atkins' (in fact they share one in Ken McMullen). That I find fault when our shortstop projects to be as valuable offensively as a handful of decent albeit unspectacular third basemen probably indicates that I think Tulo's a lot better than almost any projection has given him credit for thus far (his sky high upside score indicates PECOTA might actually feel this too, I just haven't seen all the comparables yet) but I've grown okay with that concept this Winter as well. I think to predict that his offensive value will be roughly equal to Stephen Drew in 2008 indicates that either Tulo's projected too low, Drew too high, or a combination of the two.
With Helton, obviously you've got to project a steep decline at his age, but he came in at a step above the highest end of PECOTA's expectations last season and this year PECOTA says he'll drop nearly 40% of his rate stats from that campaign. That's more than just a defensive decline and it's more than necessary for an aging star. He's projected to be as valuable offensively as Tad Iguchi, who's only one year his junior, and I just can't buy that.
by Rox Girl on Feb 13, 2008 4:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The main issue with Corpas...
PECOTA's Tulo projection basically has him duplicating his 2007. Given that he took such a great leap forward just to do what he did last year, it seems like blind optimism to expect significantly more than that. The Drew projection is silly.
"He's projected to be as valuable offensively as Tad Iguchi..."
No, he's not; I don't know what numbers you're looking at. Anyway, the Helton projection is right in line with what Marcel says (by my reckoning, anyway; I haven't looked up the "official" Marcel). (And yes, the Iguchi projection is crazy optimistic).
Oh, and to respond to TK's comment: PECOTA is not conservative. Not even close. It has 330 hitters projected at a .260 EqA (league average) or higher. Think about that: 11 above-average hitters per team. PECOTA is optimistic to the degree of producing mathematically impossible results. It may be conservative in terms of counting stats, but no one should care about those anyway.
by Heltonfan on Feb 14, 2008 12:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Iguchi's VORP over 700 PA's
I'm not expecting significantly more than 2007 from Tulo, but in VORP, the PECOTA line is projecting a 10% drop, which I'm also not expecting.
by Rox Girl on Feb 14, 2008 4:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
PECOTA = conservative?
I don't know how to manipulate their data, so I chose a simple metric and scanned the spreadsheet. The 2008 weighted mean PECOTA data that's available now projects only 13 MLB hitters to get 30 or more homers, at least according to a quick scan. In 2007, in what memory tells me was a bit of a down year offensively, a full 25 players hit 30 or more.
Again, not exactly scientific, but I think this is what PECOTA does for everybody, not just the Rox.
by FI2 on Feb 13, 2008 10:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs




















