The Torrealba Myth

by free7694 on May 1, 2008 10:29 AM MDT

4-5, 94 1/3 IP, 82 H, 61 R, 50 ER, 49 BB, 82 K, 10 HRA, 4.77 ERA, 1.39 WHIP

1-1, 17 2/3 IP, 17 H, 8 R, 8 ER, 10 BB, 9 K, 2 HRA, 4.07 ERA, 1.53 WHIP

Those two lines are both for the same pitcher, Ubaldo Jimenez. The first line is his numbers in games caught by Yorvit Torrealba, the second line is his numbers in games caught by Chris Iannetta. We are constantly being told by "the powers that be" that Torrealba is in there because of his excellent mentoring of our Latin pitchers.

With Ubaldo at least, there seems to be no big difference between his performance with Torrealba and Iannetta behind the plate. His walk and strikeout numbers are a little better with Torrealba, but his ERA is nearly a full run lower with Iannetta behind the dish. So, it doesn't seem to matter to Ubaldo who his catcher is. Franklin Morales, however, is a different story.

With Torrealba: 2-3, 41 1/3 IP, 37 H, 16 R, 16 ER, 23 BB, 22 K, 1 HRA, 3.48 ERA, 1.45 WHIP

With Iannetta: 2-1, 18 IP, 20 H, 16 R, 16 ER, 8 BB, 9 K, 2 HRA, 8.00 ERA, 1.56 WHIP

Morales, unlike Ubaldo, seems to actually benefit from having Torrealba catch him. His ERA more than doubles with Iannetta behind the plate. But Frankie's in the minors now, so if you look at the numbers the club currently has no excuse for keeping Iannetta on the bench. If/when Franklin comes back, though, get Yorvit behind the plate when Morales is on the mound.

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Luck?

Note that there’s little difference in Franklin’s walk and strikeout rates between the two catchers. The difference in WHIP is notable, but it’s not huge. The 3.48 ERA with Torrealba behind the dish could just be luck.

by Tom (RFTN) on May 1, 2008 11:53 AM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Staff Numbers

The samples are small if you go pitcher by pitcher, but I think if you look at the staff as a whole you’ll find that the stats are better with CI behind the plate. Can any of our stat gurus back me up on this?

by 4thturn on May 1, 2008 2:57 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

I think

Torrealba is now on deck to be traded this year at the deadline. The Rockies are out of this race already on May 1st. Bellorian (at AAA) and Iannetta have really emerged. That makes Torrealba a semi-desirable asset and an extra piece.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 1, 2008 5:03 PM MDT reply reply 0 recs

Out of the race?

I must have missed that article. For some reason I though we still had 134 games left to play. But you’re right, there is no way to make up nine games in just 134. Pack it in, we’re finished…

~sarcasm

by Rox R Champs on May 2, 2008 9:48 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

Well,

at our current pace we will be 45 Games out of 1st at the end of September.

To STAY 9 games out, we will have to go from where we are, to matching the D-backs torrid pace. If we want to gain ground, we will have to both improve, the Snakes slow down, and slow down to the point we actually win more then they do. When a team digs a hole, they have to over come that hole just to reach the starting point of flat ground. This makes catching up very hard to do.

Now if you noticed, the Rockies are running out a Royals minor leaguer (which means he wasn’t good enough to pitch for the powerful Royals) and Mark Redman as 2 of our 5 starting pitchers, and a Keystone due of Clint Barmes and Johnathon Herrera.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 2, 2008 10:07 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

I understand how games are made up in the standings

What I don’t understand is your surrender attitude. I don’t understand what Barmes has done to suggest he won’t be able to handle himself this season. And most of all, I don’t understand this comment… “When a team digs a hole, they have to over come that hole just to reach the starting point of flat ground.” Um… What?!? Ok, so if the Rockies can put together an 18-10 May, including a sweep of the Dbacks in AZ, there is no reason that we won’t be within a handful of games. This is a long road, and you’re wanting to give up at the first refueling point. Give me a break.

I don’t beleive that AZ is going to maintain their current pace and win 117 games. And here’s an idea… how bout seeing De La Rosa in action before assuming he is going to falter. Sure Redman has struggled, but how many clubs have five solid starting pitchers? 0. That’s how many.

Listen, give up on us if you want. I don’t care. I’m just happy that you aren’t in our FO to make knee-jerk reaction trades after a bit of adversity.

by Rox R Champs on May 2, 2008 10:56 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

thank you i agree

its a long season, and as long as we dont finish last this year im happy. as somebody said before, 08 is the sacfrical pawn to 07 and 09. at least we arent cubs fans. who cares just go out and play, root for the team. im gonna love this team if they are 9 games up or 10 games back, bar none. cause i love baseball and i love the rockies, they are my team.

Scott Podsenik for center field 08

by roxfan4life on May 2, 2008 11:12 AM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

You are right

there is a statistical possibility we can win the west. Do you want to put money on it? If we step up and play .500 for the rest of the season, and the D-backs fall apart, and can only play .500 ball the rest of the season….we finish 9 games out. 9 games is bigger then you make it out to be. Also I don’t think this team is a .500 team. In fact we will be lucky to not be in last place in this division come the All-star break. Which is my point. The front office should be aware, we are closer to a last place team then we are to a first place team. But with the right moves, I think we could be competitive in 09 again.

I’m not saying don’t enjoy the team. Or don’t hope they win. Or don’t root for them to win. But I’m shocked at how any one can look at this team, and see 1st place. I see last. It’s not that I don’t root for the team. I just don’t like being in last place. And I don’t want to be a last place team next year either. If this team stays the course and does what it’s doing now…...will you be happy?

I’m also saying don’t make trades for the short term to win anything this year. In fact, I’m saying make moves to see what we have for next year, as this one is practically done as far as wining anything that matters. Is Fowler going to be help? Is Stewart? What about our youthful pitching? will that bunch make up for a rotation next year or are they all too young? Do we have some tradable and valuable commidities because we might have some replacements in house that could net us a missing piece for 09 or restock our system (Fuentes, Vizciano, Torrealba, Hawpe)? I think these are questions that 08 should answer. Example: If sitting Hawpe to get Seth Smith or Barker AB’s helps us for 09 in knowing what we have, but hurts us in 08…I’m all for it.

But I think if the Rockies make some wise moves, and some wise trades we can have a legit shot in 09 and beyond. But I think if we keep hoping that Morgan Ensberg repeats, and we get one more pitcher we are right back in this thing that is the worst thing that we can do. Lets not be the Astros, and kid ourselves into thinking we are something we are not. Lets be the A’s and Marlins and make hard but good choices.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 2, 2008 12:44 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

You could be right, but it is too early to know...

Look at the standings as of May 19, 2007 in the AL East, and then check them for September 23. The Yankees made up 9 games in that time frame. The Red Sox didn’t fall apart, the Yankees just started getting hot and had every chance to win the division. To say that we’re out of the race is too extreme and seems to me is looking at the Rockies as if it were 2001, rather than 2008. I don’t see any reason that we can’t make up ground quickly, especially as the Dbacks start playing against the more elite teams. I don’t think it is time to sit guys that have proven themselves here and made this team a winner to garner younger guys playing time and to throw in the towel on 08. Particularly Hawpe. Why would we give him a pay-raise, only to turn around and send him packing? Especially when he hasn’t even had 100 ABs yet. I just don’t agree with your assessments, and wonder about your strategy of a fire sale after 28 games. But I just noticed that you are actually campaiging to move Atkins to 2b. A position he has 8 innings of experience playing? A guy with limited range at 3b to move into the middle of the infield? That would move us out of the race, once and for all…

by Rox R Champs on May 2, 2008 1:17 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

I think Atkins hitting (minus defensive short comings but he actually played 2nd well the other nigh) plus Stewart’s potential is greater then Johnathon Herrera playing 2nd and batting. I think the Rockies need to find out about Stewart this year.

As far as the team’s start goes, if I thought we were a good team, off to bad start I’d agree. I think our “run” last year was the fluke.

As far as Hawpe, goes. Yeah he had a good year last year, but he’s a talent that might be replaceable. Look at the A’s and Twin’s. They have to move good players all the time, to get more pieces into their minor league system. If Seth Smith or Barker (both off to great starts in AAA) could replace him or Holliday…we need to look at that and find out. Same with Torrealba, Fuentes, or anyone else.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 2, 2008 1:40 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

Moving quality proven MLB players to make room for prospects that have had short stints at the big league level has a name… firesale! It would be a huge mistake to trade those guys, particularly the two stars you mention. Starting with a bunch of minor leaguers next year would set us back years. Back to Todd and the Toddlers again.

Ok, so we know where you stand. You maintain that our season last year was a fluke. I disagree, and if we follow your logic, we’ll never know. We’ll run out a team that looks nothing like the team that actually brought Colorado a taste of winning last year, and we’ll have no way to know. Luckily for the rest of us, management doesn’t see it that way, and they want to keep guys on the field that have proven themselves to be winners. The All Star break is a good barometer point for where this team is. If we are back in it at that point, great, if not, maybe time to bag the season.

Back to Herrera, he is getting a shot, and we don’t know how he’ll step up. Luckily he isn’t our only choice if he fails like you have already pegged him to, as Q is up also. I anticipate Q garnering the majority of the playing time until Baker is back from his injury.

So, I realize now that you don’t think we are a good team, that we have no chance, and that you don’t think any of our proven players should stay. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think we are a good team that should keep our core together, and that by September, we’ll have at least a shot of taking the west. I suppose if we go and start a run and climb back in, that would be a “fluke” also?

**Aside—I can’t believe I’m having another conversation as to whether our success last year was a fluke. I doubly can’t believe that I’m having this conversation with a Rox fan this time…

by Rox R Champs on May 2, 2008 2:12 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

I think we are a good team that should keep our core together,

I totally agree. But we have to find out what we need to go with them to get this team to the next level and competing on a regular basis. But we also need to find out who the “core” is, and who is replaceable, and who has value to be moved to other teams. 08 looks like a good year to find out those answers.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 2, 2008 2:43 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

It very well could be

But I still maintain second half of 08 would be the right time to start experimenting if we don’t show signs of righting the ship. I certainly wouldn’t start experimenting with five months to go.

by Rox R Champs on May 2, 2008 2:48 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

Besides

Stewart/Atkins I’m not saying do anything TODAY either. Even that one, I’m hitting the “pause” button due to Stewart’s 0-fer the Nashville series.

And to bring this back to the tread, I think Torrealba is one of those replaceable pieces.

Garrett Atkins for 2nd ! Ian Stewart for 3rd !

by Redhawk on May 2, 2008 3:04 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs

I think trading Torreabla

is not a firesale. We have a replacement who may in fact be better in Ianetta. I also don’t think Torreabla is going to take losing his job, which I think is an inevitability, very well. But a contender in need of a veteran catcher might find him useful.

by moomacher on May 3, 2008 7:46 PM MDT up reply reply 0 recs