Colorado Rockies @ Milwaukee Brewers GameThread, Jul 10, 2008 12:05 PM MDT

Holliday to start the all-star game

he will replace the injured Soriano in the outfield

by rockiesrock on Jul 10, 2008 11:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m in New York for the weekend, and I’m going to the game tomorrow against the Mets! Anybody else coming?

by onholliday on Jul 10, 2008 11:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

No

TV today? Balls.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 12:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

The feed just kicked in

on mlb.tv. Radio broadcasters, no graphics. Personally, I like it better this way.

by dogs on Jul 10, 2008 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

its kind of a different vibe. I like it too.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

i have

the TV package. No television for me.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

when its not on the TV package, it always seems to happen on the rare days that I can get out of work early, hit the store for some BBQ and some beers, and I end up getting stuck watching the Dodgers because the game isn’t on.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

Loan me your password? LOL

Stcuk watching on Gameday/GameCast

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've

already been reprimanded by MLB.com for that, otherwise I would.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Didn’t know they would reprimand you for that LOL

That sucks

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

they suspended my account and I had to spend half an hour on the phone with some dude to fix it. Not fun. But hard to complain, I guess.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Willy T

causing havoc on the bases so far

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 12:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Once he figures out

that whole “stealing first” thing, he’ll be unstoppable.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't hold your breath

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

JDLR

Sometimes I scare myself into thinking “this guy isn’t that bad.”

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Then you remember

He played for the Royals

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And

He wasn’t good enough for the Royals.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

but apparently Ramirez IS good enough for the Royals?

Never trust the Royals organization to make sound decisions about anything.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

He BALKED in the winning run last night

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

um yea that's my point, he sucks

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhh

No.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley

Error = bad

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 12:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

sloppy

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did

the Brewers announcer just say that JDLR has the “same raw stuff” as Sabathia? Wow.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

yup

i heard that too lol

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't believe that this team is running out

Rusch/Redman/JDLR to fill out its rotation, and I’m sitting here thinking about the divisional race.

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

All the starting pitchers we used last year. There was a point that Josh Fogg was our #2. Anyone remember TIm Harikkala? (sp?)

Thank god for baseball season.

by jcd823 on Jul 10, 2008 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't

BK get a lot of starts in the first half as well?

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also:

Byung Kim, ELMER DESSENS, and Denny Bautista,
Those 3 combined for only 7 starts, but Dessens had the lowest ERA at 7.58

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh crap

I forgot about Elmer feaking Dessens.

Thank god for baseball season.

by jcd823 on Jul 10, 2008 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

and yet

even thought we need to use 5-6 below-replacement level starters every year, management refuses to sign some legitimate pitching help. Go figure.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is

Who was available during the offseason to sign?
I will say they should’ve looked at trading for Bedard or someone, but little was available.
I think they are weary of trading for a pitcher because they hate to do it.

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

We couldn't

afford Bedard. And he’s a dickhead. Haren, on the other hand, was probably someone we should have gone after.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haren

But failing a top-tier starter, there are always a handful of #2-#4 type guys to fill out a rotation, players we can send out there instead of the Ruschs and Redmans of the world. Counting on Morales to occupy a spot in your starting rotation for a full year is incredibly naive and shortsighted.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who?

Who were these No. 2s and 3s available?

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you look reaaaaaaalllly hard, I bet you can find a couple guys in there better than Jorge De La Rosa. Let me know if you need any more help, big boy.

Tony Armas Jr. PIT
Kris Benson BAL
Shawn Chacon PIT
Roger Clemens NYY
Matt Clement BOS
Bartolo Colon LAA
Scott Elarton CLE
Josh Fogg COL
Casey Fossum * TB
Freddy Garcia PHI
Tom Glavine NYM
Livan Hernandez ARZ
Jason Jennings HOU
Brian Lawrence * NYM
Jon Lieber PHI
Kyle Lohse PHI
Rodrigo Lopez COL
Wade Miller CHC
Eric Milton CIN
Russ Ortiz SF
Andy Pettitte * NYY
Odalis Perez * KC
Mark Redman COL
Kenny Rogers DET
Carlos Silva MIN
Julian Tavarez * BOS
John Thomson KC
Brett Tomko * SD
Steve Trachsel CHC
Jeff Weaver SEA
David Wells LAD
Kip Wells STL
Randy Wolf LAD
Jamey Wright TEX
Jaret Wright BAL
Victor Zambrano BAL

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by roxintober on Jul 10, 2008 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

have proven your ignorance.

Not only was De La Rosa not signed as a free agent, but there is not a shred of evidence that ANY of those pitchers listed above were:

1. Actually available
2. Better than our internal options.
A rotation of Francis, Ubaldo, Cook, Morales and Hirsh was the plan.

My god, man. Casey Fossum? Wade Miller? Steve Trachsel? I get that you’re hurt that the team isn’t doing well…. but copy pasting a list of FA pitchers doesn’t really prove much. NONE of those guys listed above were in our price range or better than the internal options.

Fucking moron.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Internet.

Serious business.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

Was Josh Fogg really available?

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah... You guys are right

I’m sure we all would be so thrilled to have seen O’Dowd sign Glavine to a big contract this year. I mean, we could have gotten four starts from a washed-up, overpaid, soft-tossing lefty! That surely would have solved all of our problems!

My God! Shawn Chacon! He would be AWESOME!

Andy Pettitte? Sign me up. How much? Doesn’t matter… He’s been a completely average pitcher this year. Definitely worth the 8 figure salary he’s getting.

Tony Armas Jr. Hey, at least his dad was good.

I mean… Seriously. How many of the guys listed would have either helped this team or been worth anything close to their salary?

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is your point

that those guys on the list are not guys that would solve our problems (generally, I agree), or that the GM shouldn’t be blamed for doing nothing at all to address an obviously questionable pitching staff?

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't believe I'm about to respond to your pathetic trolling....

First of all, way to cherry pick the worst free agents in that list. You may as well have thrown David Wells in there. We could have signed any of the following pitchers to cheap one or two year contracts, and any of them would currently be our #3 starter.
Lohse
Jennings
Wolf
Perez

And that’s just a cursory glance of that list, without even looking up stats on how some of those other guys are doing this year. I’m sure there’s a few others with sub-6 ERAs, something that can’t be said for the bottom 3/5ths of our rotation.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Jennings = hurt, and 0-5 with an 8+ ERA this year
Odalis Perez wouldn’t have been a bad option, but his WHIP is very high
Wolf makes nearly $5 mil this year, so I don’t know about that for a highly inconsistent guy
Lohse looks like a good option right now

The thing to consider though, most of those guys looked to be dismal and below average. Some of them look above average now, some average.

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

you were the guy who predicted Francis would fall off the face of the earth this year. You probably also called that Morales, the same guy who more than held his own as a 21-year-old last August/September, would also severely regress.

And, there’s also this…..

WE CAN’T AFFORD THOSE GUYS. Hell, Randy Wolf makes nealry $5 million. Jason Jennings (and his nearly 9 ERA) makes $4 million. Lohse makes a little more than $4 million. Oliver Perez (and his high walk-rate) wasn’t even a free agent.

Mark Redman makes $1 million. Is Randy Wolf 5 times better than Redman? No. Not even close.

Perhaps we could have signed Lohse. But considering his track record of being historically average and the fact that he’s a flyball pitcher, I’m going to go ahead and side with O’Dowd on that one.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello!

we spent $5 million on our Towers/Kip/Redman pu pu platter. With money we could have easily resigned Fogg, at the very least

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This too...

Would you rather have Towers/Kip/Redman/Vizcaino or Wolf/Lohse? Signing one more replacement level starter wouldn’t have broken the bank, and we’d probably have 5-6 more wins because of it.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fogg

I’d love to have Fogg. Problem there was that he initially completely priced himself out of the market. At that point, we thought we only needed bottom of the rotation or insurance-type guys. We weren’t going to give Fogg a multi-year deal. By the time he (and his agent) figured out they were asking for something no team was going to give, we had already signed Towers et al.

Unfortunate circumstance to be sure, but I blame Fogg’s people, not our front office. At least not for that.

by holly96 on Jul 10, 2008 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is where

I’m throwing the yellow flag

I think O’Dowd is taking a completely unfair beating in this current thread. I’m shocked at some of the names thrown out in attacking Dan’s off-season moves. Let’s look at some of these pitchers, focusing on FIP, which is a projected ERA based primarily on defensive independent stats, or stuff pitchers can control like K’s walks and, to a degree, homers:

Fogg: He’s just recently become a major league pitcher again. He’s now healthy but Cinci was unwilling to bring him back to the bigs until last week. I ask how Fogg’s performance to date would have made this team better, but I’d counter with an assertion that we’d be worse off. Fogg’s FIP registers at 5.73, which would be almost or over a run worse than Kip Wells, Redman, and JDLR.

Wolf: It’s called Petco Park, and using him suggests a quick look at ERA and nothing else to make a point. Wolf’s road ERA approaches 7, and every single rate stat is better in Petco. Wolf looks more like a gag gift for potential buyers than a reasonable option to improve a rotation.

Jennings: Um…

Lohse: I think using Lohse is an after-the-fact argument that’s hard to support. There was no indication throughout the off-season that Lohse could be had for the price he was had at, and by the time Lohse had found a buyer at that low price, the Rockies had already completed their shopping. I highly doubt that Lohse was priced at one year 4+ million in November and December.

Aside from that, some of Lohse looks sustainable, while other parts are likely to rebound. Lohse’s FIP of 3.73 is strongly supported by his .64 HR rate. However, the HR rate is a bit flukely with a HR/FB rate at over 3% below his career norm (pretty big difference). Duncan has been able to coax more grounders out of Lohse, so even when the HR/FB returns, the HR/9 will not rise as high because he’s allowing fewer fly balls this year.

Wells, Redman, and JDLR all have FIP’s below 5.00, so any one should be a capable number five guy. That two haven’t really been isn’t necessarilly by fault of their own, but more of luck and circumstance.

Why complain about Towers? He was AAA insurance and hasn’t sniffed the big league club.

The problem with Morales isn’t the role he was expected to fill, but the damage done to his delivery in the off-season. Somebody should be in trouble over this, but that’s for a different discussion.

LASTLY, this teams woes aren’t with not having an adequate fourth or fifth starter. The major culprit to the team’s current standing is its inability to win/hit on the road. Even with a split this week, we didn’t hit in three of four games, and the hitting in the fourth only came against substandard ML middle relief. Sheets still whiffed two an inning, and a solid pitching performance from two starters helped steal wins.

by David OhNo on Jul 10, 2008 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are correct

in saying the Rockies problems are their inability to hit/win on the road. BUT…that’s always been the case (more so than MLB average). And the theories as to why are long and lengthy.

So if that is the case the Rockies should have been looking for a strong rotation. Good pitching and defense, don’t slump like hitting does is the old cliche. What the Rockies went out to get and got were #5/AAA types. Not all that bad given our lack of depth in the upper levels, but we really need a #3, and a #4 pitcher. We could have made the deal similiar to the Cubs did with the A’s, and not hurt our team much at all, but we didn’t.

Personally, if we think we are actually in this still, I’d like to see the Rockies make a trade for Erik Bedard. Sure it’s a rental, but the Mariners need a corner OF or a 1b bad, and we have extra (Hawpe/Barker/Smith/spilly and Helton/Koshansky). We have several pieces that are depth or blocked we could move, that wouldn’t hurt us, and would help the M’s.

Francis, I’m the only one that saw that coming, so his was a surprise. But like you the Morales issue is troubling, as is the regression of Hirsch and Corpas. There is a problem in developing our pitching talent. I don’t know if it’s in the minors or in the majors or both, but it’s got to be fixed this next year, if the Rockies hope to compete in the future.

I miss baseball. Can we fire Clint Hurdle and Dan O'Dowd now?

by Redhawk on Jul 10, 2008 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bedard is:

A) on the DL.
B) averaging just slightly over 5 1/3 IP per start.
C) a jerk

If you’re going to sacrifice talent for a guy to be a top of the rotation pitcher – at the very least you want him to be able to consistently go deep into ball games, which Bedard has clearly shown he cannot do right now. I know there aren’t many top of the rotation starters available, but Bedard is absolutely not worth it.

Agree that the development issue has got to be fixed, I think all the problems the young pitching is having (Francis, Corpas, Morales, Hirsch, to some degree Reynolds) is a HUGE red flag.

by Hizilla on Jul 10, 2008 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bedard

a) is on the DL yet,, but is not expected to miss much time or even a start due to the All-Star break
b) His shoulder has been hurting him, I’m hoping a little rest will bring him back (so are the M’s) and because of this and the M’s needing to unload, we won’t have to OVER-PAY…as every team in the big needs another starter to.
c) I haven’t heard that one…. But he’s got great stuff when healthy, and I don’t have to work with him ;)

Is Bedard worth an extra player….I think so. Not that it matters, I don’t think the Rockies are in buying mode, and especially not for major league caliber pitchers.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jul 10, 2008 11:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody could have predicted Francis

falling of the side of the earth, but assuming that a 21 year old is going to be in your starting rotation for an entire year is pure idiocy. He should have started in AAA, probably Jiminez too. Injuries happen, and having a contingency plan is always nice so you don’t have to go out and sign pitchers off the trash heap.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

p.s.

“Oliver Perez (and his high walk-rate) wasn’t even a free agent.”

I was talking about Odalis Perez, who was a free agent as indicated by the free agent list that I so graciously copy/pasted. Try to keep up.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm done

You’re argument is centered around Kyle Lohse and Randy Wolf. Randy Wolf really hasn’t been all that much better than Mark Redman this season.

We wouldn’t have 5-6 more wins. That’s pure idiocy. We might have one or two more wins.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Redman: 7.07 ERA, 1.57 WHIP
Randy Wolf: 4.38 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Kyle Lohse: 3.61 ERA, 1.26 WHIP

Yea, you’re right. They are all pretty much the exact same pitcher.

I’m done too.

by Ghoulowitzki on Jul 10, 2008 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Redman has an ERA+

of 65…Wolf is at 88. Not sure how many wins that translates into, but it seems significant.

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

ERA+

difference of 23 really isn’t all that much, particularly when both pitchers are lower than 100.

by rosenthal on Jul 10, 2008 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

In case you haven't noticed

completely average would be an upgrade for the bottom of our rotation.

The 2008 Rockies: All loses, all season

by moomacher on Jul 10, 2008 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

For

what it’s worth. O’Dowd stated he was sorry he didn’t sign Livan Hernandez.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Out making friends again?

And I don’t think you replied to the right comment.

by Rox R Champs on Jul 10, 2008 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

David Bush...

How is he baffling our hitters like this?

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Gameday said HBP...

Did they over turn that?

by roxintober on Jul 10, 2008 1:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Delarosa

Seriously, I can’t believe some of these guys are in the rotation.
Morales ready? Hirsh? Anybody?

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I can pitch

and for the ML minimum too

Die-hard Rockies fan. On the bandwagon since 7/6/93. Not giving up my seat. EVER!

by rockiesfan4ever on Jul 10, 2008 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Morales is sucking in AAA.

He regressed substantially once Apodaca got ahold of him.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Who was coaching him down the stretch last year?

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did well

down the stretch. This year they tried to mess with different things and now he’s worse then ever.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dig that

I just think its simplistic for this nonstop barrage of Apodaca bashing. Is he really the only guy in our franchise that has any control over pitchers? Something tells me that he’s doing what he’s told to do.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's known

to be bad with young pitchers. Thats why he go canned from the Mets and Brewers.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you really want to know

the Rockies brought up Bo McLaughlin down the stretch last year, and IF you were paying attention to the celebration at year end, it was McLaughlin that Corpas, Jimenez, and Morales ran to hug and celebrate with, not Dac.

by David OhNo on Jul 10, 2008 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

so where is that guy now?

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

TULSA

AA

by 91 wins in 08 on Jul 10, 2008 9:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

A fastball that...

bounced before it crossed the plate…

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Hirsh is close...

and with the state of the rotation, they made shave one or two rehab starts of the schedule.

by roxintober on Jul 10, 2008 1:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

They

plan on putting Wells in the rotation.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blah

This game is over, Delarosa pitched freaking AWFUL

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

So does the same ....

“Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me” apply to Hurdle?

I could play for this team if I did well once in 15 tries, then I’d have a secure spot starting. (talking about JDLR and others)

by roxintober on Jul 10, 2008 1:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Rox Trademark:

2 OUT IMPLOSION

by roxintober on Jul 10, 2008 1:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yikes

Well, at least I can get some work done without being distracted. Color me SHOCKED that our pitching staff gave up another monster inning to suck all winnability out of the game. Viz coming in? OK, I’m definitely done.

by Teekalong on Jul 10, 2008 1:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

At least we got a split

Now I want 2 of 3 in New York behind Cook and U-ball.

by DeepPurple on Jul 10, 2008 1:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

This team just baffles me

Making David Bush seem like an All Star so far, for one.
And then trotting out AAA starters at best for the pitching rotation.

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 1:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

This

is just like the pre 07 Rockies.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 1:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

So seriously

WHY CAN’T WE HIT DAVID BUSH?

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 2:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

8 innings thrown

13 K’s, and 4 hits with 1 run, and it could very well be just 2 hits and 0 runs scored.
This is a guy who was 4-8 coming in with a 4.56 ERA coming in. A career 4.56 ERA and a losing record. A guy who doesn’t really strike guys out.
Geez.

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cedrick Bowers

I’m thinking it may be time for Mr. Bowers to spend a little time back at the Springs. I think we’ve seen enough, no?

by fatheadX on Jul 10, 2008 3:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Pfffffff.......

I absolutely hate to agree with you on this, but I feel I must. I was really pulling for they guy, and the first inning I saw him pitch I liked his delivery and potential to be a passable left-handed specialist or middle relief guy…. But he’s certainly not doing much to keep his spot on the roster. I wish him the best, but I think it’s time.

by IowaRockie on Jul 10, 2008 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The 2008 Colorado Rockies are truly awful

I know the topic has been beaten like a dead horse on this blog but you just cannot possibly expect to win consistently with 3/5 of your rotation being De La Rosa, Redman and Rusch. We are bringing a knife to a gunfight 3 out of every 5 times we play and that is just not going to get it done in the Majors. Factor in dreadful years from Tulo, Helton, Hawpe, Taveras, Francis and Corpas; horrible in game managing as usual by Hurdle, and a bullpen with only 2 reliable arms (Bucky and Fuentes) and you’ve got yourself a 15 game under .500 record. We are all holding onto major false hope by simply playing in a terrible division. Any other division and the Rockies are 15 – 20 games out and looking forward to September call ups and next year.

by RyanBuff on Jul 10, 2008 3:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

But we're in a crappy division

And are only 7 games out, possibly 7.5 depending on what the d-bags and dogers do. I’ve stayed away from the negative row, I mean purple row for a while because of comments like this. We’re still in this season and you should be thankful the West is having a down year. Instead, people want a fire-sale, they want firings, they want to call up the Sky Sox to see what we’ll do next year or in ‘10. I say bullshit. Let’s play to win now. We have a door open, let’s get after it and win this division. Anything can happen once you hit the post season. We are finally playing well, despite today’s ugly loss. Splitting with one of the hottest teams in the league in their park is a good thing, especially considering our road record leading up to this series. Sure, things have been ugly, but we aren’t buried. Embrace that and roll with that good fortune people. Don’t just sit there bitching about how bad we are. 08 isn’t over!

by Rox R Champs on Jul 10, 2008 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

I mean I love your optimism, but when a team under achieves as badly as the Rockies have this year I think fans have every right in the world to be negative or positive; it’s just a matter of how you look at it I guess. Do you really, honestly see us making the post season, even in a horrible division, throwing out a pitching staff 3-5 that might not be able to get hitters out consistently at the college level? And if by some stroke of complete and utter luck, along the lines of winning 75 games and getting into the playoffs, how are we going to compete once we get there? We will not have home field advantage, that much I know. And with our sterling road record, what is it worst in the Majors? I do not see us even competing in a series let a lone win one. Face it, at 15 games under .500 you cannot say your team is in it no matter how much of a blind homer you are. It’s laughable at best. I do not think it is right to attack people just because they differ in opinion from you when the season looks as bleak as it does right now. God bless you for being optimistic, you are a better man or lady than me. I am just not drinking the kool-aid right now. Sorry.

by RyanBuff on Jul 10, 2008 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really

Do the math. If LA and AZ both lose, then no harm done today. It is alarmist, at best, to count yourself a loser (or a winner, for that matter) until August rolls around. Stranger things have happened once post season rolls around. Tell your sad story above to some Cardinals fans. Ask them how getting into the playoffs worked for them when they won their division a couple years back. And, if we did make the playoffs, which I contend is far from impossible at this point in the season, and were able to pull off a win in the first round, we’d have a chance at home field for the NLCS if the wild card were able to win their first round. No matter what our record is at September’s end. Wild card never gets an advantage.

As for your snippy comment:

It’s laughable at best. I do not think it is right to attack people just because they differ in opinion from you when the season looks as bleak as it does right now.

Pot meet kettle…

by Rox R Champs on Jul 10, 2008 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn Quotes

didn’t work right.

by Rox R Champs on Jul 10, 2008 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I truly hope you are right

And we come back and win the division. I’d be happier than Kirstie Alley at an all you can eat buffet, believe me. The cold hard facts are we are a middle of the pack offensive team and a bottom 5 pitching team statistically. But I won’t argue with your optimism at all. You just happen to see the situation glass half full and I see it glass half empty. That’s the only difference and there’s nothing wrong with either of our opinions.

by RyanBuff on Jul 10, 2008 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 3:20 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Second amen

by DeepPurple on Jul 10, 2008 3:57 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

well

at least today’s thread didn’t include World of Warcraft or star wars references. Get some sun people.

InToddwetrust

by InToddwetrust on Jul 10, 2008 4:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Taking inventory......

This is our 16th season in the major leagues, and what do we have to show for it?

5 winning records – 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2007
11 losing records if we stay below .500 this year
2 playoff appearances
1 World Series appearance
13 times finishing in last place, or next to last, in our division, and 2008 could be #14.
No starting pitchers with 18 wins in a season.
No hitters with 50 homeruns in a season.
No Cy Young winners
1 MVP winner, Larry Walker in 1997.
3 megacontracts, all of which ended up being busts (Hampy, Neagle, Helton)
and only 1 dumb-looking, fat, and boring mascot.

This, my friends, is the picture of a LOSING franchise. Don’t be colored in your view based on the most recent FLUKY history of that miracle stretch run to the playoffs. That is the aberration. THIS (2008) is the rule.

We are going nowhere. Deal with it.

by GoRoxGo on Jul 10, 2008 4:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Awesome

Thanks for depressing me further. Although I do have high hopes for the future with Chacin, Fowler, Weathers, etc… hopefully making big contributions at the big league level. We are, all in all, a pretty tortured fan base but that makes the winning season like last year feel even more euphoric.

by RyanBuff on Jul 10, 2008 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You finally convinced me!

Okay, I’ve wasted 16 years. I had no reason to watch the Rockies and I was a fool. All the time I was smiling in the Sun at Coors Field (regardless of the score), I guess I was actually in denial and should have been crying. I did “drink the kool-aid” it would appear. But no more!
So…... I am now proclaiming myself a Red Sox fan, and will be such right up until they revert back to another century of being losers themselves. At which point I will go wherever the winner is. Because, that’s what baseball and being a fan of the game is all about. Your team (whoever it is at the moment) winning.

by IowaRockie on Jul 10, 2008 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

A couple things

Our expansion counterparts, the Marlins, have had larger success, but definitely not a team I would be proud to be a fan of.
After winning championships, trading away/letting the talent walk away, etc.

And for mega contracts, I don’t really consider Neagle’s a “megacontract”. It was a bust signing, and frankly anyone could tell it would because Neagle was a fly ball pitcher.
Helton was not a bust. What would you do with a young hitter who was hitting .330+, hitting 30+ homeruns and driving in runs with an OBP .400+? The only thing I question is the length, but he was deserving of that contract. And who would’ve thought he would develop a bad back and basically lose all of his power?

by TehChamp on Jul 10, 2008 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

helton is not a waste

he was one of the best players 98-06. he hardly paid him then now we are paying him big time. its managements fault for not payin him b4

Hurlde sucks

by roxfan4life on Jul 10, 2008 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The extension was a bust.....

Helton was under our control from 1998 through 2003 before free agency. The extension kicked in in 2004, right around the time that Helton’s decline was just beginning. We got a couple good years, and then he really started losing his power. We still owe him nearly $68 milion through 2011, including the buyout for the 2012 season.

If that’s not a “bust” of a megacontract that never needed to be handed out, I don’t know what is.

by GoRoxGo on Jul 10, 2008 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've said it before...

I’ve got nothing against Purple Row discussion of the good and bad of Rockies baseball (think I like a back three rotation of Redman, Rusch and JDLR?), but I do not want to see the Row become a juvenile feeding-frenzy of absurdity against the Rockies a la the ESPN boards. Purple Row has always been a cut above.

by DeepPurple on Jul 10, 2008 5:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I miss the discussion. This has become my primary place to go for information and analysis regarding the Rockies (win or lose), and frankly it’s getting hard to check the boards when looking for information. The analysis didn’t/couldn’t always paint a rosey picture, but it was informative and well…. Analytical. Not rants and constant accusations of some grand conspiracy by management to lose or flat statements that we will lose just because we have before.

by IowaRockie on Jul 10, 2008 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

The game threads have been mostly enjoyable for most of this season so far. Recently, though, they’ve become almost unbearably grating. I don’t know what it is, because they were fine even through the rough patches of May and early June. Being a recent transplant from CO to the east coast, PR has helped make me feel a little less lonesome in my Rockies fandom, so I’ll be sad if the game threads stay this ridiculous.

I guess it’s just the way of the internet, though. The juvenile crap always takes over everything.

by dogs on Jul 10, 2008 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right.....

if the complaints and whining comes with no basis or backup for the woes. The rant I just posted was filled with evidence, the historic record of this franchise.

In that post, I forgot to mention that in 16 seasons, the Rockies have yet to win the NL West. They may yet do so this season, though that seems like the longest of longshots, given the back three stiffs in our rotation. But this is baseball, and as Joaquin Andujar once said, “You can sum up baseball with one word – ‘You never know.’”

by GoRoxGo on Jul 10, 2008 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing wrong

with passionate fans one way or the other. A lot of people who go to Coors Field pay no attention to the game and are there to sit in the summer air. These are the 20,000 the Monforts count on no matter what. I don’t see how anyone can be happy and accept a losing team. The only reason to be in the business should be to win.

by DieHardRox on Jul 10, 2008 6:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said

I think the one thing everyone has in common here is they love the Rockies and want to see them succeed. Everyone has their own way of showing it, which shouldn’t be a problem as long as everyone can be civil.

by RyanBuff on Jul 10, 2008 7:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately, that's not always true...

Certain styles of discourse encourage people to break out of their civility. Calling other users f-ing morons, for instance, will typically incite a reaction. Going into a nest of impassioned fans and throwing out bleak blanket pronouncements such as “We are going nowhere. Deal with it.” also usually won’t encourage said fans to remain civil.

This is a serious issue to me, and I’m deciding how to respond to some egregious breaches of site protocol today. Polite discouragement hasn’t seemed to help, so expect some action to be taken tomorrow. I’m going through comment histories tonight, and will try to get things back on track.

by Rox Girl on Jul 10, 2008 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously.....

If you have a problem, Rox Girl, with my writing “We are going nowhere. Deal with it.” in my “taking inventory” post, then this website is probably being run as a “thought police-state”. I was already warned, and accept the pop-up as a sincere attempt by you to clean things up around here.

Trouble is that, IMO, my posts don’t need “cleaning up”. I was civil, and I’ve encouraged others to remain civil in their comments, postive or negative, about the Rockies. Read my past posts and you’ll see what I’m saying is true. I have not, and will not, attack other posters for their opinions or anything else.

Given that, why “edit” or call me out for something strongly said about the Rockies in this last post? I feel unfairly singled out. You are seemingly taking it upon yourself to be the “thought police” around here, but I’d use that power carefully. Personal attacks certainly should be within your jurisdication of policing, but when you cross over to intimidating me for a passionately written OPINION, that’s too much for me to handle.

I’ll try to continue to post positive things about the team, as I have done continuiously if you look at my posts. For example, I defended Tulo and was upbeat about him the other day when others were calling for him to be sent back to AAA. Your warning pop-up claimed that I am ONLY negative, and to leave this site if I have no hope for this team. I’ll leave this site, but it won’t be for that reason if you continue to try to intimidate my free expression of civil thoughts. It won’t be because I have no hope for the team. Your choice, Rox Girl.

by GoRoxGo on Jul 11, 2008 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What happened here today?

And no, I’m not asking about the Rockies. Some of you may remember betsy, who used to post here. Well, she’s in NY this week, so I cleared my Thursday to go the the Metropolitan Museum of Art in the afternoon with her and then have some dinner. Maybe some of this is my fault. I wasn’t around and things got out of hand.

Yes, I do have a somewhat lenient policy on off-topic discussions in game threads. I’m all for jokes and I certainly don’t have a problem with side conversations about topics that are non-Rockies related as long as they are short (last Saturday’s weird pre-game discussion being allowed at my discretion). But the above is not acceptable. Things would have been cut off at the Jul 10, 2008 3:24 PM EDT comment. At that point, I would have recommended someone starting a FanPost if anyone desired to continue the conversation.

Now, I haven’t actually counted how many of the 105 comments (this one being #106) actually discussed the game, but I’m sure a good majority of them did not. That just shouldn’t be.

There are rules to follow (yes, the last sentence to rule #5 probably should be invoked a bit more). They need to be reworded in some areas, but all the essentials are there. They just make everything easier. Wouldn’t you agree?

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Jul 10, 2008 8:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Part of this

is my fault. I didn’t intend to post the ‘fing moron’ comment. I didn’t intend to respond at all. I had been having trouble posting comments, and for whatever reason, it cleared midpost. Hell, I wasn’t even done with my argument yet.

But to whine about it being off-topic? Come on, Russ. Don’t be lame. If someone wanted to skip that part, they likely did. We were talking about something several scrolls up. Be mad that I dropped the f-bomb, but not that the post went off-topic.

I apologize for the f-bomb (only half-heartedly… I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. It’s just a few letters put together. If you have a huge problem with it, that seems like more your problem than mine). I censor my language an awful lot…. But when someone makes a blatantly moronic post… well…. It’s tough to hold back. (Though, like I said, I didn’t want to post my response at all. Hadn’t fact-checked anything and I likely wouldn’t have kept the f-bomb in there).

But if you have a problem with a game-thread for an awful baseball club going off topic when said awful baseball club is essentially done for the season, I suggest you probably turn off your computer. Something has to keep us entertained. It sure as hell ain’t going to be the Rockies.

by rosenthal on Jul 11, 2008 12:57 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

To the Row...

It saddens me to see all the bickering in this community. I think we can all say that the Rockies both deeply frustrate and also deeply excite us at times. To me, that is what being a true baseball fan is about. It’s also what being a part of this board is for, talking with other fans who love the Rockies as much as you do…sharing in the good times and bad. In my mind, true fans of all teams go through this. Just go and read the other MLB teams boards. Even the teams who are in first place in good divisions are not completely satisfied with what’s going on with their teams and those in charge of their teams. No one can guarantee what this team is going to do and they aren’t out of the race until they actually are mathmatically. I also have seen other teams and their fans who would give anything to have a team like ours. I realize that the Rockies haven’t done as well as expected, in regards to last season’s NL championship. At the same time, it’s not like we have not had moment’s to celebrate. About a week ago, we were all on here celebrating the biggest comeback in Rockies history, 18-17. The Rockies had a good homestand and they split against the Brewers,who have done very well as of late especially when they play at home. We have also had almost every single one of our position players on the DL, which in itself has been a disadvantage, but has also had some good things come out of it. Players like Jeff Baker and Omar Quintanilla have gotten their chance to play every day and we have seen good things come out of it. We have won against excellent pitchers such as Tim Lincecum and Ben Sheets. A baseball season is so long in comparison with other sports…therefore, EVERY team goes through slumps and losing streaks. I have watched the Rockies since their inagural year and it doesn’t matter how long you have followed this team, if you’re a true fan of the Rockies, you know they have the power to surprise. Does that mean we will make it to the playoffs every year? No. Does that mean we won’t ever? Also, no. There are teams that have been around a lot longer than the Rockies and have had to wait more seasons before going back to the playoffs, winning a WS etc. etc. Yes, we have some bandwagon fans, but so do all the other teams. All the MLB teams have diehard fans, there is a reason for that.

I guess what I am saying is that none of us are perfect, no player is perfect, no team is perfect. Players, Coaches, Fans etc. all get frustrated at times and it is nice to share that with other fans. That being said, when one reaches a certain level of frustration, it is my opinion that it might be best to step away from the Rockies for a moment or a day or whatever. I don’t claim to not get frustrated with this team. I knew my frustration was too high when I started becoming angry that Jayson Nix got a hit when he came in a double switch. I was angry because my thinking at that point in time was that since he has struggled with the bat that that must mean Bush must be terrible and thus, the rest of our lineup had just completely thrown in the towel. After a few minutes, I realized how absurd I sounded and how terrible it was to be angry at any Rockies player to get a hit and stepped away from the game. I was able to think about it more clearly tonight.

I am not trying to judge anyone, or tell people how to feel. It is just my opinion and it seems to be the opinion of the moderators and many posters on this board that we might want to focus on the positives more. I know sometimes when I am feeling negative toward the Rockies that I like to hear about something positive our team is doing. I have been a fan of this team for years and even if things were completely ugly (which I don’t believe they are) I wouldn’t quit being a Rockies fan for anything. There are many others that feel the same way. I have really enjoyed talking with all of you fellow fans on here and look forward to many good discussions in the future!

Go Rockies!

"We are all DEAD as doornails"

by AtkinsandTulofan on Jul 11, 2008 2:13 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs