Friday Morning Rockpile:

by Rox Girl on Jul 25, 2008 8:19 AM MDT in Rockpile

So everybody was abuzz yesterday about the whispers that Roy Halladay might be available. Halladay is certainly in a camp of player that is worth giving up a lot of talent for. Everything seems to be pointing that the Jays will look more intensely at moving him during the winter, so there's time, but I just want to say that I certainly wouldn't mind if the Rockies were a little more in on those discussions than they were with Danny Haren this past offseason.

Tracy Ringolsby breaks down where each team is at in the trade deadline dance, and he brings up a good point that a lot of the apparent surprise by the rich contending teams about the small market clubs asking for too much boils down to the fact that they are shocked that there's actually some fiscal forethought by clubs now. We have less than a week now to see if the Rockies actually make a move, but it's clear that there's no panic to just deal for the sake of unloading Fuentes' contract.

In fact, Jayson Stark quotes Dan O'Dowd as saying just that:

But no matter which way the Rockies' roller coaster veers in the next few days, GM Dan O'Dowd says nobody should expect him to blow up his team just because it's been a disappointment.

"We won't do that," O'Dowd told Rumblings, flatly. "And it has nothing to do with the standings."

Stark also notes that Garrett Atkins is off the market with Helton's injury and says that Willy Taveras will likely be moved. Fowler's ascension seems to be getting closer by the day.

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In Toronto's case

A firesale wouldn’t necessarily be a bad option. Run it small-market style for a while, and then they’d definitely be able to pay the players who pan out.

It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time It's Tulowitzki!...Tulo-witzki-witzki-witzki ..... rockiesmagicnumber.blogspot.com

by RockiesMagicNumber on Jul 25, 2008 8:52 AM MDT 0 recs

To be fair Toronto is totally screwed

they have to deal with the two richest teams in baseball, and now they have a third team to deal with. Meanwhile they seem unwilling to fully commit to a youth movement and give out huge contracts to guys like Vernon Wells. I agree that blowing it up is probably the way to go, esp since Riccardi is likely on his way out.

Second half run?

by moomacher on Jul 25, 2008 9:21 AM MDT up 0 recs

It's interesting that

Toronto is actually quite a big market (would be 4th most populous metro area in the US), but they just don’t spend their money wisely sometimes.

If the Rockies could score Halladay that would be quite a coup. Get it done O’Dowd!

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 25, 2008 9:57 AM MDT up 0 recs

On Blue Jays Banter

I threw out this trade idea. The response was of course “Our guy is too good for prospects”. It does seem Toronto doesn’t know how to act. Is it a large market, throw money around team? Is it a build from within medium market team? Their minor league system is pretty bare especially at the upper levels.

If they want to be a smart medium market team, they need to trade Halladay for as many bodies/prospects as possible and rebuild. If they are a large market team, they need to keep Halladay, and throw big money at up coming FAs like Texieria.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jul 25, 2008 10:20 AM MDT up 0 recs

The exchange rate

probably isn’t hurting as much as it used to.

by Tom (RFTN) on Jul 25, 2008 1:50 PM MDT up 0 recs

It should be

benefiting them. As long as they negotiated all previous contracts in $USD. The rise of the Looney ought to make all those deals a lot less costly.

by Since1993 on Jul 25, 2008 2:05 PM MDT up 0 recs

Please

Trade Willy. Even before Fowler arrived, Spilly could do a better job.

by onholliday on Jul 25, 2008 9:19 AM MDT 0 recs

Before he got hurt

Spills WAS doing a better job. Like a .300 OPS swing better job.

It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time It's Tulowitzki!...Tulo-witzki-witzki-witzki ..... rockiesmagicnumber.blogspot.com

by RockiesMagicNumber on Jul 25, 2008 9:19 AM MDT 0 recs

Spilly....

absolutely deserves a shot to play every day. I’d love to see a lineup that includes Tulo, Spilly, Baker and Stewart go out there every day. Toss in Ianetta, Holliday, Hawpe and Atkins and you’ve got a really potent, balanced lineup.

by BroJB on Jul 25, 2008 10:25 AM MDT up 0 recs

Does anyone else think

that it’s funny that our best lineup (w/Cook at pitcher) is all white?

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 25, 2008 1:23 PM MDT up 0 recs

No

It’s a 25-man team, from Yorvits and Ubaldos to Matts and Ryans.

by DeepPurple on Jul 25, 2008 1:46 PM MDT up 0 recs

Dexter Fowler is not white.

by Tom (RFTN) on Jul 25, 2008 1:52 PM MDT up 0 recs

Relevance?

Or just some disguised racism?

by Rox R Champs on Jul 25, 2008 2:09 PM MDT up 0 recs

Um...

No. I was thinking funny strange, not funny ha ha. It was not meant to be indicative of anything nor particularly relevant.

Calling me a racist is really low…and offensive. I was under the impression that this was a civilized, mature board. It appears that I was wrong.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 25, 2008 2:50 PM MDT up 0 recs

i agree

i got the same treatmeant in the playoffs last year when i said ryan howard had a big nose

Hurlde sucks

by roxfan4life on Jul 25, 2008 3:16 PM MDT up 0 recs

Sorry

But I just don’t see the point you were making or why you brought it up. The color of a players skin doesn’t matter. And the term “best” indicates superiority. I just dont think that observations of race has any place on the board… I find that offensive

by Rox R Champs on Jul 25, 2008 3:29 PM MDT up 0 recs

Whatever.

Best = Most effective thus far in the season, using purely statistics. I never said anything about how the color of their skin mattered.

If you find an observation like that offensive, I’m sorry. That’s pretty thin-skinned of you, and so is calling me racist.

But whatever, water under the bridge. I forgive you.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 25, 2008 3:49 PM MDT up 0 recs

Back at you-- water under bridge

For future reference, I’d eschew obfuscating people sensitive to race matters as being weak or thin-skinned. It can be much deeper than that

Just food for thought.

by Rox R Champs on Jul 25, 2008 3:57 PM MDT up 0 recs

Hypocrite

If it really doesn’t matter then kindly stop talking about it.

It seems more likely that he meant it in a “Wow what are the odds of a bunch of white players who are actually good athletes being on the same team” kind of way than in any way that was meant to demean people of various (non-caucasian) races.

Prejudging his comment as a racist one seems just as closed minded as the racism that you are speculating about.

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 4:14 PM MDT up 0 recs

Excuse me?

Sorry Russ, I see your post below, but calling me a hypocrite is uncalled for and unfounded. You, madness is the one that carried on. Race relations is an issue I feel strongly about and have experienced first hand.

by Rox R Champs on Jul 25, 2008 4:56 PM MDT up 0 recs

Are we all done here?

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Jul 25, 2008 4:20 PM MDT up 0 recs

Yes

Sorry for bringing it up.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 25, 2008 4:21 PM MDT up 0 recs

NO!.....WE NEED A ......

Belgian player in the lineup!!

by 91 wins in 08 on Jul 25, 2008 4:32 PM MDT up 0 recs

No

their waffles are terrible!

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jul 25, 2008 8:18 PM MDT up 0 recs

Fuentes

What really helps the Rockies position on Tito are those 2 sandwich picks they’d get for him being a type A free agent. They have the luxury of knowing that, if they don’t move him, they’re in great shape for the draft.

Plus, in dealing him, teams trying to get him are in a no-lose spot—they can use Fuentes for a few months and collect the picks, or re-sign him.

That’s why O’dowd doesn’t have to move him, and it’s also why he can ask for max value if he does. The Rox are in a good spot here. Let’s hope they don’t blow it by dealing him for chump change.

by BroJB on Jul 25, 2008 10:23 AM MDT 0 recs

Cards may be desperate

St. Louis blew a another save in the 9th last night and suffered a crushing loss and series sweep at home to the Brewers. I teased them after the game on one of their boards asking “So now what will give us for Fuentes? He’s only retired 23 of his 24 with 15 K’s.”

A Card fan replied, “Perhaps I should wait an hour to cool off before I answer this question. At this very moment I’d trade Pujols, Ankiel, Ramus, and Ludwick for a good reliever.” Frustration there of course, but seriously the Cards may be our best bet right now to get the max deal for Tito..

by DeepPurple on Jul 25, 2008 11:07 AM MDT up 0 recs

The Cards aren't a fit.

The Rockies aren’t sellers yet at this point, so if they’re going to trade Fuentes, then they need to get at least one guy to plug into the rotation, immediately. The Cardinals don’t have that, unless the Rockies honestly consider Anthony Reyes to help. I don’t see the Rockies trading Fuentes just for prospects, b/c they could just continue to use his service the rest of the year, and get two high draft picks (of their own choosing) when he walks.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 25, 2008 11:19 AM MDT up 0 recs

yes

Anthony Reyes is help

Which shows you how bad a back end of Glendon Rusch, Jorge De La Rosa and Kip Wells is at the moment. Now is this the best deal long term? Do the Rockies need 2 more draft picks for prospects right now?

Personally I think it’s a wash. I think the bull pen could survive with out Fuentes for the rest of the year, but not sure we need anything in return besides an MLB starting pitcher. Which can’t be that great of a pitcher if A) he’s not in the bigs now, and b) would be traded for a rental like Fuentes.

Maybe if Fuentes was packaged with some one else….but even then I don’t think a mid season return will be that great.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jul 25, 2008 11:56 AM MDT up 0 recs

If I'm the Rockies...

and the Cards come a calling, sure I’ll take Reyes, but mainly I want Kyle McClellan and an upside High A or AA starter. Unfortunately, Cards won’t make that deal.

If you want to throw Reyes in the deal, fine.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 25, 2008 12:17 PM MDT up 0 recs

Reyes

He’s okay, but off the Cards’ AAA team I’d rather have Garcia or Walters… they’re both younger and have more upside. The Cardinals don’t really have a ton of high-upside pitchers.

As far as Rasmus goes, I’m really not sure he’s better than Fowler to be completely honest.

by Tom (RFTN) on Jul 25, 2008 1:58 PM MDT up 0 recs

Fowler vs. Rasmus

It’s definitely debatable. I’d say Rasmus is a year more advanced (in AAA at 22). He hits for better power, but probably won’t hit for as high of average as Fowler.

It thought it would be worth comparing their AA numbers (Colby, last year).

Fowler: ‘08 (Age 22) – AA (382 AB)- .332/.424/.505 (.173 ISOP, 17.1 K%, 22 LD%)
Rasmus: ‘07 (Age 21) – AA (471 AB) – .274/.380/.550 (.276 ISOP, 19.5 K%/ 23 LD%)

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 25, 2008 3:31 PM MDT up 0 recs

Power (ISO)

You can see it in the ISO – Rasmus has significantly more power.

I haven’t seen him play but all the reports and articles that I have read indicate that he came into pro ball as a more polished player and that even now he is much more ready to contribute significantly at the major league level that Fowler, even with Fowler finally putting all of the pieces together.

Fowler can definitely stick (and excel) in CF in Colorado and I don’t know if Rasmus would or not but I would absolutely LOVE to have both and to move Rasmus over to right field. He would definitely take a LOT of the sting out of eventually losing Holliday.

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 3:43 PM MDT up 0 recs

WHO RUNS/THROWS/ AND PLAYS.....

better “D” in CF?

by 91 wins in 08 on Jul 25, 2008 3:49 PM MDT up 0 recs

Not qualified to comment

I am not qualified to comment but the impression that I had gotten was that Rasmus was like the vast majority of center fielders who can do anything other than run – he would eventually lack the range or speed to cover the vast CF area at Coors. He also has the power and the arm to play right later in his career (or if CF is already filled).

Every report about Fowler seems to mention that he is ideally suited to play center at Coors.

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 4:19 PM MDT up 0 recs

Rasmus

Double checked a few scouting reports in various places online to confirm what I thought I had read a few weeks ago when checking up on Rasmus – he has plus speed, a plus arm, plus range and projects to be an extremely good fielder in CF.

If the Rockies had both players I would still imagine that they would put Fowler in CF because he seems more likely to maintain that range and he doesn’t have the plus arm that Rasmus has.

Lets stop talking about this though…dreaming of Rasmus in right for the Rockies is going to make me need a cold shower. :(

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 4:23 PM MDT up 0 recs

Rasmus

I’m not qualified to comment on Fowler. Rasmus… I don’t remember thinking he was a bad CF but he didn’t do anything spectacular, either.

by Tom (RFTN) on Jul 25, 2008 4:34 PM MDT up 0 recs

All points taken

On the other hand… Rasmus is having a pretty bad year. Not as bad as when Memphis came through here (when he was hitting like .182) but while that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s no good, it does raise a few questions.

MADness: Rasmus’s ISO is .146 this season compared to .183 for Dex. I guess since they were both playing in the Texas League that’s a fair comparison, but I don’t know if I’d say significantly more power.

Playing around with the MLEs on minorleaguesplits.com, I get this line for Fowler if he played in Memphis:
.299/.388/.448 (.149 ISOP)

The flipside, though, is that Dexter has a .401 BABIP, which is pretty high and says he’s probably not a “true” .332 hitter. Rasmus’s is .289.

It’s debatable who’s going to be the better player, though.

by Tom (RFTN) on Jul 25, 2008 4:26 PM MDT up 0 recs

Not knocking either player

Not trying to determine who is better (other than defensively) but mostly just comparing them.

Rasmus has more of a history of demonstrating his power than Fowler does and you can especially see this in the HR numbers in thier careers.

Too bad that Rasmus was not playing well when you have gotten to see him.

I love hearing first hand reports from you or DavidOhNo when prospects come through and you get to see them first hand.

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 4:43 PM MDT up 0 recs

I've seen both quite a bit

and both are quite sufficient in the outfield.

Rasmus makes better reads, reads the ball a little quicker, and has a plus arm.

Fowler has much more range, but I’ve noticed that he doesn’t always play the wind well, and his arm is just average.

Both can play center in Coors, but Fowler’s range makes him a better candidate.

Offensively, I have to give the nod to Rasmus. Rasmus has a swing more designed for future power, and he has plenty of filling out to do himself. I think Rasmus will consistently put up over .200 ISO’s during his prime.

Fowler’s a little more contact oriented with a line drive swing from the left side that still has more holes inside than AA pitchers are willing to exploit.

Keep in mind that when Rasmus rolled through the Texas league he blew it up with power, Fowler is doing it with gap hits and his rangy defense. Not saying either is wrong, just that they’re two different but incredibly talented players.

As for trades go, you don’t get Rasmus without Holliday.

by David OhNo on Jul 25, 2008 10:41 PM MDT up 0 recs

One more thing:

their speed on the basepaths is a wash. Rasmus has better stealing instincts, and should be around 20 consistently in the bigs.

As for Fowler, I’ve heard 70 grades on his speed, but he stands straight up when taking leads and has a slow first step. He’s a big triples and scoring from first threat because of his long speed, but until he changes his base-stealing mechanics, he won’t do more than 20 a year either.

by David OhNo on Jul 25, 2008 10:44 PM MDT up 0 recs

Why McClellan?

He’s a rather run-of-the-mill solid relief prospect with the upside of a seventh inning guy. We have one named Ryan Mattheus, and he throws harder with a slider comparable to McClellan’s curve.

McClellan’s what you ask for when you try to move Barmes, not as the centerpiece for your closer.

The Cards don’t do bad matching up. When the Rockies’ price returns to earth, a package centered around Garcia or Todd would look pretty good. When you consider both are solid B+ guys, you could take one of them and add another solid prospect like Jay (B to B-) and have a package that beats the risk of arbitration and draft picks.

by David OhNo on Jul 25, 2008 10:51 PM MDT up 0 recs

McClellan = Haren?

Many expect McClellan to be in the rotation next year. He was groomed this spring as a starter, but made the club as a long reliever. He’s been one of the lone bright spots in the pen for the Cards this year. And this is all w/o ever pitching in AAA. He was very successful in A+ and AA last year, with a combined ERA around 2.00 and greater than 5:1 K:BB ration (about 60IP). Here’s some more detailed numbers: http://firstinning.com/players/Kyle-McClellan-a/

He apparently has good command of 4 pitches, and thus why they like him as a starter. Cardinals typically groom their rotation guys with a year in the pen (e.g. Dan Haren). One could argue that this is much better than the Rockies approach (see Franklin Morales). He’s 24, but missed most of 06 rehabbing TJ surgery (his second).

Here are a couple good write-ups on him:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/ABF784A40A8733088625743D00146C32?OpenDocument
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/740860.html

After the Haren/Mulder debacle, I don’t expect the Cards to even consider moving McClellan.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 26, 2008 10:03 AM MDT up 0 recs

Garcia not likely.

Cards are definitely valuing their young starters more than in years past. With Garcia being a lefty and only 21, it would take much more than Fuentes (who would be a rental) to let go of Garcia right now. Todd, probably not as much, since he may actually be pitching above his true value right now, so they may be tempted to flip him for someone of value. Two top picks if Fuentes walks as a FA (which he most likely would, from the Cards) could be incentive enough to trade Todd in a deal for Fuentes.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 26, 2008 10:12 AM MDT up 0 recs

About the Cards...

My point was desperate teams can do desperate things—like overpay for Fuentes.

by DeepPurple on Jul 25, 2008 12:07 PM MDT up 0 recs

Depends on the team.

And I’m not sure there’s as many teams anymore who are willing to overpay. Even the Yankees are starting to act a little smarter when it comes to Trade Deadline.

I definitely don’t think the Cards will overpay. Jockety maybe would have, but Mozeliak won’t.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 25, 2008 12:12 PM MDT up 0 recs

Here is a few questions

We all know how chemistry of teams effects their performance (Bonds/Kent in SF), and keeping in mind what Bucky said the other day about the confidence that Fuentes provides, do we trade Fuentes now? Do we wait til the end of the season? Is Corpas/Bucky ready for the closer spot?

Plus, team loyalty is something that is rare and is something that Fuentes and Holliday have exemplified in the last couple of weeks. When asked by reporters, they are saying that they are Rockies and that is it. ODowd has been quoted scouting players not just for talent, but also for character. Now I completely agree that we need to find someone to plug into the rotation, and I would like to see the same done as last year truthfully. Do it internally. I know how everyone hates Morales on here, but give him another shot. I mean, we gave Kip Wells another shot and Morales cannot do any worse.

I say, Fuentes will explore the free agent market this winter and that is when we will part company with him. I would not expect to see Holliday in another uniform until this time next yeer.

Remembering Dustin Mohr's glory years!

by MohrPlease on Jul 25, 2008 12:24 PM MDT 0 recs

From What I Hear...

Morales has “bottomed out” in AAA and they are slowly rebuilding his mechanics. I wouldn’t want to interrupt that.

by onholliday on Jul 25, 2008 2:34 PM MDT up 0 recs

And on top of that

who hates Morales?

I think everyone is more frustrated in the mechanical changes undergone by Morales that caused the decrease in stuff than any disdain for Morales himself. He still made top 10 Purps, so I find “hate” a poor word choice.

by David OhNo on Jul 25, 2008 10:59 PM MDT up 0 recs

He pitched well last night

6.2 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 4 BB, 5 K

I’d like to see fewer walks, but it’s a start.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 26, 2008 10:06 AM MDT up 0 recs

Go Get John LannaN!

This team is currently built around an increasingly potent offense (Finally!) and two lights out pitchers. When Francis comes back we should have a chance to Win 2/3 of those 3 starts they put up.

The key is the backend of the rotation. However, if we can get some good relievers (Why did they sign vizcaino) we could stick with some younger 5 IP pitchers.

Lets send Barmes to balt for Sherril. Sherrill is overrated anyways. They turned us down for Guthrie but I doubt they’d do it for Sherril (especially if we include some other small pieces)

I’d love to go for Halladay but I’d assume the only way that happens is if Holliday goes for Halladay AND a contract is worked out before the trade is allowed (Won’t happen).

Personally we need to go for some sinkerballers.

I’d love to See John Lannan on this team. His GB% is very similar to cookies. Apparently the nats will give you their players for nothing. So why not!

by acsguitar on Jul 25, 2008 1:48 PM MDT 0 recs

I MAY BE WRONG BUT I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT ......

Neagle and Hamptom were sinkerballers. If that was true, then that alone is certainly no guarantee of success.

by 91 wins in 08 on Jul 25, 2008 3:41 PM MDT up 0 recs

Hampton was

Neagle’s out pitch was his curve ball.

BUT in their defense, this was pre-humidor. Anything that took a unique grip didn’t have the command or movement as the Rockies pitchers get now.

For and image to stick in your head: Denny Neagles Hooker…...

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jul 25, 2008 8:16 PM MDT up 0 recs

According to Stark as ESPN....

If Marlins want Fuentes, Rox are asking about this guy in return:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Ryan%20Tucker&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457761

by BroJB on Jul 25, 2008 2:59 PM MDT 0 recs

Tucker

Blurb from an MiLB article this year on the pitching depth in the Marlin’s organization:

“Ryan Tucker, RHP
If you’re a fan of truly electric stuff, Tucker might be your guy. He’s got a hard fastball that sits in the mid-90s and he actually does a pretty good job of commanding it to both sides of the plate. He complements it with an excellent changeup that keeps hitters off-balance.

Tucker has lacked a good breaking ball since high school, and it’s something he’s still working on. The slider is his pitch of choice, and he’s worked hard on perfecting it. The sentiment is once he can throw it consistently, he’ll pitch in the big leagues. He’s shown enough of a feel for it that the organization thinks it will come, so he’ll continue working on it in Carolina, but if the light goes on, watch out.”

Sounds like there is finally a realistic/reasonable name being floated. This is a guy with a good arm and who is close to the big leagues but is no sure thing (and is thus easier to convince the trading team to part with) and is on a team with the minor league pitching depth to afford to part with him.

by MADness on Jul 25, 2008 5:26 PM MDT up 0 recs

I don't know

Tucker may have passed Volstad on most boards with his tear through AA, so if Volstad was off limits, I can see where Tucker would be treated similarly.

The Rockies can still do well with Florida. Sinkbeil has had a down year, but he has the stuff that should succeed in Coors, and may play up with our defense behind him. Perhaps with Sinkbeil, you could add a better secondary prospect, maybe one of the other arms in the system like West or Hernandez (better than his numbers suggest).

by David OhNo on Jul 25, 2008 10:57 PM MDT up 0 recs