Game #120: Hernandez vs Young
by Rox Girl on Aug 10, 2008 12:00 PM MDT
in Rockies Game Threads
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PrintSan Diego Padres at Colorado Rockies, Aug 10, 2008 1:05 PM MDT
A pitcher that I really hated for his ability to make the Rockies look ineffective last season, and who wound up making me lose a bet with our usually friendly rivals at the AZ Snakepit makes his debut with the team today. Will Hernandez benefit from the switch back to the NL, with the hole riddled lineups that his veteran savvy has been able to take advantage of in seasons past? Or does the decision to bring an aging and well into his decline flyball pitcher into Coors Field spell yet another disaster waiting to happen in a season that's already had it's share? While I'm hoping for the former, the point is that this is a very low risk move to find out. Jorge De La Rosa, if he was better at all than Hernandez, was only marginally so, and the difference was not nearly enough to not take this bet on Livan. If the season continues to go down in smoke, August 10, 2008, will prove mostly moot, just a minor footnote in our march to also-ran status. If, however, the Rockies do have another comeback in them, then it would mean the Hernandez experiment was a success, and today would be an important marker of where the turnaround got a boost.
Go Rockies!
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Somebody get me a bat!
I could hit this fat sack of garbage.
I hate to say I told you so, but I kinda pretty much did.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
Check this out
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/8/9/590286/colorado-rockies-top-20-pr
At least it’s something to do instead of watching the game right now.
Well I read the minor league notes
so….we have 2 really god prospects (Fowler, and Chacin)
and not much else really close, it read to me
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
It was a review of his preseason list,
So it didn’t even look into the development of players not listed before the year, not that there was much of that at the upper levels. There’s also an issue of comparing Aneury Rodriguez to Hynick, Rodriguez has better stuff and it should translate to AA better, although it’s also looking lately like he’s got a tired arm at least. I’m a little worried about underlying health issues. No Casey Weathers mention at all, and even he gives more credit than EY2 than you seem to notice.
How much of Livan's contract are we paying for ?
Dan O’Dud…..with another scrap heap miss.
I really….really hoped for better.
Wishful thinking maybe.
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
Awful lineup
and Livan suck. In short, we are about to lose another home series to another of the worst teams in the NL. I’m so excited, I think I’ll wet my pants.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
Something to watch for
I expect to see some Padres with black eyes and bloody noses later on in this game. They’ll be fighting each other at the bat rack to be next in line to get a crack at Livan.
1.6 million to learn what the numbers already would have told you: he ain’t better than Jorge de la Rosa. But hey, he’s famous! And a big game pitcher!
You folks got what you asked for. If you ask me, you lose the right to complain when the guy you’ve got such a hard-on for ends up flopping in predictable fashion. I tried to warn you, I really did.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
Who are you talking to?
You really come off as insane and unnecessarily hostile when it comes to this Livan Hernandez thing.
This is true, the defenses of Livan have been feeble at best,
As far as I can tell, the proponents of signing him are lukewarm, i.e., that it’s not going to harm the season anymore than has already been done. This is hardly “the guy you’ve got such a hard-on for”. I’m usually in Franchise26’s camp on most things, but in this case, I’m not sure where all the fervor is aimed at.
The differences between Hernandez and JDLR over what would be their last eight starts for the Rockies will swing a lot more on who’s got the better luck than it will on the differences in the skill level they’ve shown this season. There’s simply not enough separation between the two otherwise when all the factors (Livan’s switching to the weaker league, he’s a better hitter and defender at his position, etc..,) are taken into account. Nobody here at the Row seems to be gushing about how famous he is, about how he’s a big game pitcher who’s gotten whatever teams to the playoffs. This is stuff that Franchise26 is introducing the argument, and I don’t know why he’s so adamant that if everybody here doesn’t think it’s as horrific a move as he does, that they’ve got erections for the man. For some of us, that’s kind of difficult to begin with. Anyway, I’d like it if cooler heads could prevail here.
I'm just tired
Of some of the groupthink around here that seems to center around the idea that the Rockies are an ineptly-run team and don’t care about winning. I felt as though the Livan Hernandez thing was a Catch-22 that was only going to lead to the kind of negativity that I just get a little too sick of at times: either we weren’t going to sign him, which would prove that we weren’t committed to trying to stay in the race, or we were going to sign him and he was going to be awful (the numbers don’t lie) and – and in fact, this is already happening – the FO would be eviscerated for wasting money on a washed-up pitcher, by the very same people who argued for the signing in the first place.
Yeah, I’ve stepped over a line, but I still stand by my general premise – signing a washed-up Livan Hernandez and hoping against statistical trends was a bad, bad, bad idea, and if you were for it in the first place you lose the right to be critical. That’s my piece, I’ve spoken it, and I’m ready to move on with more civility if everyone else is.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
Cory Sullivan
and his mighty .150 BA batting second. LOL. There will be a lot of LOL in this game, just not in a good way.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
How about
a million bucks a year, AAAA player Cory Sullivan?
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
No wonder Matt's RBIs are down this year
when we’re giving him this kinda player to get on base ahead of him.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
Ten bucks says...
...we will score two to three runs late in the game, and that’s it.
The Dodgers bench makes more than our starting OF
Pierre and Jones vs. Holliday, Tavares, Hawpe
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
Despite their failings
I would still MUCH rather have HTH than Pierre and Jones.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
is it me
or do our big RBI producing bats….not really hit well with runners in scoring position? i.e. rbi situations.
They (owners, etc) can feel free to blow this team up. I’m not even sure where to start
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
I so knew Livan would rule!
I’m nothing if not a fickle Rockies fan
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
This is a fast innng
how bout scoring one run today rockies? Lets start small…..little steps
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
Hell
I was afraid Maddux was going to pitch a complete game against us yesterday. Yet again, we manage to make teams who are worse than we are (which is already an accomplishment) look good.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
there are teams worse than we are?
and why do I think the Giants have a MUCH better chance of winning the Division before the Rockies do?
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
I had faith...
but now I’m disillusion with this season. It’s so redundant…this is the worst managerial move you could make in a playoff race.
Like Livan, like JDLR
I really don’t see how it could hurt any worse. Statistically, he’s capable of giving us just as much pain as we’re getting today. The team’s looking for a spark anywhere, somebody to step up when and where you normally wouldn’t expect them to, and Hirsh probably should get the same opportunity at that which the Rockies are giving everybody else.
Let's see.....
O’Dowd blows 3-point-something million on Kip Wells, writes it off and releases him in order to blow another 1-point-something million on a washed-up Livan Hernandez.
Is it these pitchers who are no good? Or our “general manager”?
General Manager
We have a better pitcher in Jorge De La Rosa than Hernandez. 2009 baby!!! Hirsh, Morales, Reynolds, Hynick, Chacins and Johnson come out and compete for the bottom of the rotation spots!!
Alan Johnson?
I hope are future isn’t THAT dim. Nice player for the organization, not one to consider for the rotation unless in an extreme emergency.
11-0
Are you dhsafkjhfgklfhjoasfigiogha kidding me?!
"Spilly picked me up...He came into the dugout and said, 'We're going to get a win for you right now,' and he did it. "
~Matt Herges (on the Rockies July 3 win)
by AtkinsandTulofan on Aug 10, 2008 2:05 PM MDT reply actions
Switched to the Olympics coverage.....
DVRs are great.
Will keep up with the game by reading this blog.
Well if Thursday didn't tell you anything
today sure as S^*t does.
We’ve spent around 5 Million this year on Hernandez and Wells. Maybe next year, we can spend that much on someone half way worth a crap?
Or…and here’s a crazy idea….trade some of our “great organizational depth” for maybe a pitcher
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
Who do you want to give up?
For a one year run in 2009? I’d rather keep the depth and spend for a better pitcher knowing how we’ve got a couple of guys eager to bolt when they have the chance.
I think we have some "depth" that will never see the majors
especially in the pitching dept.
NOW…maybe they are trash with no real value, but I was thinking package deal, lots of trash maybe equal value
BUT, I’m more and more convinced the only way to build a competitive baseball team, is to build from within, and then spend BIG free agency bucks to fill in the holes not filled by prospects.
Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.
Too much conjecture here
concrete ideas would be more productive. I think every team thinks it should move some of its filler depth for a good major league player.
In reality, depth players pretty much net you what you are watching on the mound this game. Dealing the Matt Millers, Christian Colonels, Joe Koshanskys, Eric Young Jr.s… most teams already have players like this, but they mean more to us because we pay attention to them.
It takes real prospects to get real pitchers, and we just don’t have the long term financial flexibility to make such moves.
More realistically, you’ll see a big name (or two) who wants to break the Rockies’ bank get moved for pitching help, among other things.
Does it really matter
who’s pitching? This offense is an embarrassment to baseball, and especially when Hurdle will not just pick a lineup and stick w/ it for more than a day. All of a sudden Baker is not playing, Torrealba plays way too much, and Sully and Q should not play except for as PHers. This offense can’t even score at Coors Field, and the worst offense in baseball is making it look easy. Sure that has something to do w/ our pitching, but our offense is a joke right now.
The sooner management understands we are out of the race the better. That way we can see what we have for next year, especially in the way of pitching. We need to look at some of our BP guys, and maybe Hirsh and Morales again.
It really doesn't matter
when Hurdle thinks it’s a good idea to bat Quintanilla and Sullivan 1-2 in the order. Sully I can at least understand, since he’s been adequate in a part-time role over the past couple of years (career line is .278/.329/.387.) Quintanilla has a career .280 OBP. I can’t fathom what Hurdle is thinking batting him leadoff.
Easy answer
Stephen Strasburg. We have a better shot getting back into that race.
Cory!
11-4
"Spilly picked me up...He came into the dugout and said, 'We're going to get a win for you right now,' and he did it. "
~Matt Herges (on the Rockies July 3 win)
by AtkinsandTulofan on Aug 10, 2008 2:41 PM MDT reply actions
Young must be thinking
What the hell, I have an 11-run lead… I’ll make Sully feel good about himself.
Pretty odd, too
Cory has twice as many triples as homers in his career… you rarely see that in today’s game.
11-7! OMG!
"Spilly picked me up...He came into the dugout and said, 'We're going to get a win for you right now,' and he did it. "
~Matt Herges (on the Rockies July 3 win)
by AtkinsandTulofan on Aug 10, 2008 2:44 PM MDT reply actions
Oh ya, lucky Coloradoans
I doubt Alaskan taco bells will honor the promotion
Remembering Dustin Mohr's glory years!
Nothing like giving up a 3-run homer
when you are down by 4. Great one Herge
Remembering Dustin Mohr's glory years!
I really really think
it is long long past time to get rid of Herges.
Just IMHO.
Free Casey Weathers!!!!
14-7....
I hate this. Carlin first homer of his career.
"Spilly picked me up...He came into the dugout and said, 'We're going to get a win for you right now,' and he did it. "
~Matt Herges (on the Rockies July 3 win)
by AtkinsandTulofan on Aug 10, 2008 3:19 PM MDT reply actions
I really hope
the Diamondbacks sweep us this coming week to completely put us out of it…so theres no more false hope that we are actually still in “contention”...sick of this crap….2-5 vs the nats n pads at home lmao…what a disgrace….18 days till college football season go BUCKEYES woo woo
this team is utter rubbish...
and it actually should be 1-6
luckily the Nats bullpen gave us a gift or else it would of been a 4 game sweep….how sad
this team is utter rubbish...
by TuLoRocks2008 on Aug 10, 2008 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
A happy note
Two good pitching performances early today for the farm.
Hynick went 8 innings, surrendering one, striking out eight and walking none. Midland has a pretty solid group of prospects in its lineup, so this is a positive for Hynick. One thing to keep in mind with Hynick and Weiser is that they are control oriented, pitch to contact pitchers. When you couple that with Tulsa’s defense, you have a recipe for high run totals. Matt Miller and Justin Nelson look like two first basemen with outfield gloves, and Carte is a solid average fielder, but less so in center right now. The infield is brutal, with Nelson and Young showing too many inconsistencies, especially on routine plays, and Wimberly being a below average defender at both third and short when filling in. Blanco at third is a real life Roger Dorn.
Point is, Hynick probably hasn’t been as bad as his numbers suggest, and could be effective at the back end with a better defense.
The other good start is Friedrich, currently with seven K’s in four innings. His low hits and walk totals coupled with his high K rate suggest more than his run count do, as he’s been pretty unlucky. I haven’t seen him pitch, obviously, but carrying high K numbers with him from college to the pros make him better than advertised so far, and a top five Purp.
2011 front of rotation: Jimenez-Chacin-Friedrich…. That’s not too bad.
Connor Graham looked sharp tonight, too
It’s hard to gauge exactly how good because Lexington is in the Astros system and probably doesn’t have a legit MLB caliber talent on the team right now from what I can tell, but his velocity (90-93, mostly at 92) and movement were good, and after a bit of shakiness commanding the slider the first inning or two settled into a groove with both working effectively. Still pretty much just a two-pitch repertoire, but they’re both quality and he doesn’t seem that far off from being a decent three or four starter candidate. Should he fail at that, he’s really going to be one heck of a reliever.
Billings is just a step below him in terms of stuff, but I’m seeing more MLB potential in him after last night, albeit in a swing or long relief role.
Which is still valuable for a team like Colorado
As for Graham, I’m a fan of him as well, and he probably should land somewhere just outside the top ten Purps based on talent, but you never know when you start putting the list together.
It is a shame our organizational leader( Possibly two years in a row)
will not be trusted to show off his stuff. Anyone who has watched over the years knows he always starts off slow and always eventually excels. take the risk and show you trust him especially when he can fill a position that has an opening. And you should be listening to the Sky Sox !!! He even stole a base that slow guy!!!
Sorry I am not talking about Barker. But see even he was given another chance at a steal
because of a walk!!! Gameday is so darn slow. We have a lot of men at the Sky Sox. Melhuse and McCoy Frey and Colonel. We do have a great future.
I'm so confused
Who are you referencing?
by LawrenceDavis on Aug 10, 2008 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
What?
What in God’s name are you talking about?
Glad I missed this train wreck.
"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
The final word
Livan Hernandez’s career stats at Coors Field entering today, which are freely available on the internet for all to peruse before, say, deciding to sign him to pitch in this ballpark: 6.50 ERA, 82.1 IP, 11 HR, 33 K, 25 BB.
Livan Hernandez’s career stats at Coors Field after today, after setting the record for “Fastest Dan O’Dowd has ever regretted a personnel move” and “Fastest to ever wear out their welcome on Purple Row”: 7.26 ERA, 84.1 IP, 13 HR, 34 K, 29 BB.
Contrary to my gloating over having seen this cab driving down Broadway with its doors open, today made me just as sick as it made all of you. I think I’ll find something else to do on Friday night.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
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