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Wednesday Morning Rockpile:

Funeral-procession_medium

via soundbiteblog.com

Yeah, that's the funeral procession Troy Renck starts his game recap with. Though it may be a bit more extravagant than the Rockies deserve. And since Aaron Cook's not taking the mound on Thursday, that procession gets just a little bit longer: Glendon Rusch, Jorge De La Rosa, and Livan Hernandez.

Let's look on some of the better things going on right now. Dexter Fowler's words to live by are those for his father's company: "Exceeding Expectations." Here's one of the many good parts of that piece:

Asked whether Fowler's performance this season was unanticipated by the Rockies organization, [Bill] Geivett said, "I think so. . . . He doesn't have as good a bat control as he probably will when he really has his true strength that he's going to have. I think he's very close to that. He's much stronger and quicker with the bat now, and I think that's what's really helped him take off."

Fowler desires to earn a degree in computer science in the future. Reminds me of a few years ago when Mark Prior completed his degree at USC. Greg Maddux told him he was overqualified for the job.

Bill Geivett also chimed in on what Casey Weathers needs to do to get to the majors:

To get there, Geivett said Weathers needs to acquire "true command of his fastball. Right now, he's got OK control of it. But really true command where he can follow the (catcher's) glove with his fastball and put it there when he needs to - I'd say that's the biggest issue that he faces."

The future can't get here soon enough.

Gotta have better results tonight, right?

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Bring Out Your DEAD!

Well, went to the game last night. That was offal. If Hurdle and his band of merry coaches aren’t fired this off season, there may be a riot.

Tonight we see if Francis can rebound. I’m really worried about him. He did ok through 4 innings (well 3 and 1/2) his last time out. Then he fell apart, and his velocity dropped. But the good news was he had velocity and movement at least to start…..hopefully he’ll have a little more of it tonight.

The Rockies pitching is thin in quality. If he doesn’t bounce back we might have another hole in the rotation, for the rest of this year…and next

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 9:32 AM MDT   0 recs

Going forward

Assuming Francis can at least slow the progress of his meltdown, he has to be looked at as the #4 pitcher long term. You can argue about who should be 2 or 3 out of Uball and Cook, but we need a #1. And, of course, we always need a #5. Fortunately, we have about 7 candidates for #6.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 10:43 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think we are

losing some perspective on our SP situation for next year. Just because the young guys did not pitch well this year doesn’t mean we need 3 new pitchers and we need to get rid of everyone else or even 2 new pitchers. I would not be opposed to looking into a #1 pitcher, if available at the right price, however, I don’t see a need for a #5. I think Morales, Hirsh, Reynolds, or possibly Hynick may be able to take that spot. For that matter De La Rosa may not be a bad #5. Many teams use young pitchers and they perform great, and don’t forget Morales did pitch well for us last year.

It seems to me that everyone is ready to give up on all our young pitchers based on 1 season, and that we must go the FA route or we are stupid. Many FA pitchers don’t pitch near as well in a different situation and (humidor or not) Coors is still a difficult place to convince pitchers to come and pitch in. It is still a great hitter’s park, contrary to what our lineup is maing it look like lately.

One thought I have been having, is if Francis can get pitch better towards the end of this year, how about swinging a deal to send him somewhere this off season. I think Francis could still be successful at a park w/ a little more room for error, and LH pitchers signed to a reasonable contract that have won 17 games are not that easy to come by. How about sending him closer to his home w/ the Blue Jays and getting Rios in return. I don’t know Rios’ contract situation or what other players may need to be in on a deal like this, but I like thi thought. That way we have a LFer or RFer when Holliday leaves or is traded.

by smokinRox on Aug 13, 2008 11:12 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think

you are disagreeing with me. Certainly, we have many “candidates” for the #5 spot, but we don’t have any top-of-the-rotation candidates for next year. Obviously we can fill out the rotation with the guys we have, but that’s what we’re currently doing to disasterous results. We NEED to add a top of the rotation pitcher next year, or it will be more of the same.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 11:17 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

hows this for a trade situation

trading with the blue jays: Matt Holliday and Jeff Francis and a prospect (idk who we would have to give up) for Doc Halladay and Alex Rios.

this is one of those hypothetical fan trade scenarios that probably has 0% of a realistic chance but would you do that trade?

by purplesocks on Aug 13, 2008 12:04 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know enough

about the contract situations and why Rios seems to be having a down year statistically as I pay no attention to the AL most of the time, but assuming the contract situations were favorable for us I would almost certainly do it. I hate giving up Holliday, but it seems inevitable.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 12:33 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Rios has no-trade clause and is pretty expensive for what you get.

Here’s the year to year specifics of the contract extension he signed this past April:

$5.9 million in 2009
$9.7 million in 2010
$12 million each in 2011 and 2012
$12.5 million apiece in 2013 and 2014.
$13.5 million club option for 2015 (includes a $1 million buyout)
Rios gets a complete no-trade clause for 2009 and 2010. After that, he’ll be able to block a trade to six teams.

Seems awfully steep for career .286/.337/.446

by RockyMtnRedbird on Aug 13, 2008 1:01 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

But his contract looks great

compared to Vernon Wells. (the Jays like to spend money)

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 1:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Jimenez has potential to be top-of-the-rotation

Trying to acquire a #1 starter can be a very risky business. The durable #1 starters (Sabathia, Santana), the Rockies will never be able to afford. The non-durable will still cost a ton and can easily end up hampering the club’s future (see Zito, Schmidt, Burnett). The risk in signing a Ben Sheets, for example, is just too great for the cost.

The Rockies’ best bet is to still try to develop or even (luck into) that #1 starter. If they move Atkins and/or Holliday this offseason, they definitely need to ensure that they are getting a couple high-ceiling pitchers, near MLB ready, in return. This approach seems much more reasonable than another Hampton or Neagle debacle.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Aug 13, 2008 2:17 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Francis trade

I’ve been saying that for some time now. He’s a soft throwing lefty. He needs a good pitching coach and a big ball park. He could have a nice long career (see Jamie Moyer). He could have a few good years, than get pounded around (see Mark Redman). Either way, I don’t think a soft throwing lefty works in Coors Field.

I say trade him, as he would still have value…..and then don’t look back if he goes on to have a nice steady career elsewhere.

As I see next year: We have 2 pitchers (Cook and Jimenez) and even with Francis, we have 3 spots with nothing but guesses, and wishes, and maybe to write in. Francis, Hirsh, Morales, Reynolds, George of the Rose,Hynrick, are all right now maybes none are close to being a solid answer for 09. Could one step up and be a productive major league pitcher next year? We have 3 openings, and 6 pitchers right now to fill them. Looks a lot like this year huh? How did that turn out? We’d all like to think that at least one would work out…maybe 2 if we are lucky…..ok…that at best gives us 4 pitchers…..and any team needs 5.

This team needs quality and fairly reliable starting pitching. And it needs more of it. The only “can’t miss” farm hand we have right now is Chacin, and he is at least one year away, if not 2-3 years.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 1:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Not even Chacin is a "can't miss"

He’s a very good prospect, but from where he’s at right now to the bigs there are still a lot of bad things that could happen and a couple of things that have to happen as far as his development are concerned.

But that said, I don’t think the situation is as dire as you assert. With several of these pitchers one of the major flaws has been a lack of experience, and that situation will be much improved at the start of 2009 compared to where it was at the beginning of this season. Second, teams don’t need five pitchers. If I asked you to name the fifth starter for the Phillies, D-backs, Mets or Marlins off the top of your head, you’d probably be pretty hard pressed to come up with the name. I was. I think teams need three good pitchers and a couple of lucky ones in the current NL and they’ll do just fine.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 1:19 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I was trying to be nice about Chacin

but the rest of the pitchers have more issues than just inexperience, and just cause someone can’t name the 5th starter for the D-Backs (currently Yevit) or the Marlins (Johnson) doesn’t mean they don’t take the ball every 5th day. In fact, they are just as important as any other starter. A good 5th starter is rare, but he’s still one fifth of a teams starts (well almost..you know what I’m saying) as the #1 guy

Issues:
Francis: Can’t locate pitches, Curve is flat and hittable, and fastball is almost Zito-est range of 85 mph. I’m hoping like everyone else is that he’s hurt and bounces back to being a major league pitcher. But I’m sure the Giants wish for the same thing from Zito.
Reynolds: No out pitch. Pitches to contact a bit too much. He’s the one of the list I think has the best future, but can he learn the sinker or splitter over the winter?
Hirsh: Almost had to have Rotator cuff surgery. Has a hard time staying on the field so far in his career.. Nice mix of pitches, but inconsistent. That was a bad injury…who knows if he will recover? 5.33 ERA so far in AAA doesn’t warm my heart.
Morales: Can’t hit the strike zone. 8 walks the other night. At least his velocity is coming back .IP: 91 runs: 58 BB: 69 Ks: 70. Nuke has to have some command of pitches in the show.
Hynrick: Not exactly dominating AA ball. Seems to show moments, but hardly screams, “call me up I’m ready”

Again, it’s Cook, Jimenez, Opening 1, Opening 2, Opening 3. Can we fill all of the openings from inside? sure And have a dominating, or at least major league average rotation with what’s on hand? well, that’s a different question isn’t it. Or does next year look a lot like this year, unless something is done to bring in QUALITY starters?

I’m not saying write all these guys off…I’m just saying there are too many questions to bank on them for 09. If we had only one opening…and we had these guys…I’d be ok. But we have 3 openings, not one

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 1:53 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want to beat a dead horse

and I agree with pretty much everything Redhawk is saying here. I just want to add some thoughts that occur to me everyday living here in LA surrounded by arrogant dodgerfans…for the most part they have vastly overrated the impact of their offensive prospects, who are generally pretty good but hardly surefire hall of famers like dodgerfan would have argued a year ago for guys like Kemp and Loney…

...but it appears they were not wrong about their pitching prospects. Billingsley is awesome, and Kershaw will be awesome. Barring injury, those two will anchor that rotation for a decade (in addition to whatever else they can add through deep pockets) and it seems we won’t have anything to resemble that anytime soon. I like Cook and Jiminez quite a bit, but would any GM in the league think twice about which pair he would take? Of course not.

As the Dodgers and Dbacks are showing this season, if you have consistent, reliable and occasionally great pitching, you can be decent no matter how terrible your offense is. Whereas we are demonstrating (again) that you simply cannot win when you can’t rely on 3 of your starters at all, particularly when your top two are not aces.

Of course, this problem was, is, and may always remain the biggest challenge facing this organization. I would like to think that they are at least trying to address it.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 2:05 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

What was the difference between Johnson's situation

Going into 2008, and Hirsh’s going into 2009? I’m not saying these teams don’t have the starters, but if you think they entered this season without major questions in their rotations or at least had said questions pop up shortly after the season began, you weren’t reading the same sports pages I was.

I’m just saying the questions are there at the bottom for just about every team. The bigger issue is one you’ve also brought up, and that’s simply that Jeff Francis is too big a question mark to be a #3 starter at this point. I think if the Rockies can resolve that, get a starter that’s reliably an upgrade over the Dodgers and D-backs third starters that most of your other worries regarding our starting five will mysteriously melt away.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 2:36 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think if the Rockies can resolve that, get a starter that’s reliably an upgrade over the Dodgers and D-backs third starters that most of your other worries regarding our starting five will mysteriously melt away.

1st part: Yep, right on the nose
2nd part: I wouldn’t say “melt away”, but have a higher percentage chance of having a respectable solution.

now….give me a #4 that’s better than the Dodgers and the D-Backs, and, I’m even more secure about #5.

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 2:44 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Could we lose 96?

This team seems to be running on fumes right now with all the injuries, pitching struggles, and apparent lack of focus. And it is hard to focus when you are 9 games out in mid-August and gaining no traction. A 2-6 homestand thus far that could end up 3-7 or 2-8. Wow, why did I think this would be a 7-3 homestand? Was I as delusional as Charlie Monfort typically is?

With the way things are going, it’s not too late for this team to post its worst W/L record ever. 96 losses is not out of the question, especially if we lose Cook for an extended period, Livan is as bad as he showed in his Rockie debut, and Rusch returns to his old (bad) form. After the expectations of contending coming off a World Series appearance, this has to be the most disappointing team in baseball this year.

And no one in management or the FO will pay with their jobs. That, you can take to the bank.

by GoRoxGo on Aug 13, 2008 9:43 AM MDT   0 recs

GoRoxGo?

Where? To another city? Is that what you want with this franchise? This same “fan” had a diary in May, “Are the Rockies losing on purpose?” Nuff said.

by DeepPurple on Aug 13, 2008 10:35 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Questioning fanhood?

Generally looked down upon here.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 1:23 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

At the same time, and I'm not saying DeepPurple's right...

The constant drumbeat of pessimism, of only being able to look at this season and say “woe is us” has driven and continues to drive valuable members of the Purple Row community away. Speculating about this being our worst season ever, just after this same FO and management helped bring the team to its best season ever seems to fall into a category that is also generally looked down upon here.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 1:29 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Thought Police.....

I think, RoxGirl, you should have no problem with a wide range of viewpoints expressed on your website. To call me out for being too pessimistic, when all I’m doing is providing an honest assessment of this team’s troubles, strikes me as being a bit too controlling on your part.

The only concern you should have is if posters lack courtesy or civiility toward each other. Beyond that, ALL sentiments should be welcome on your site, whether they be negative, positive, or indifferent.

BTW, blind shilling for the Rockies drives people away too. Fans want honest dialogue. Keep that in mind.

by GoRoxGo on Aug 13, 2008 1:43 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed on the last sentence wholeheartedly

The whole “I’m a better fan” argument is tired regardless of what side you are on. We’re all fans, and everyone expresses it differently. I freely admit to being a glass-half-empty fan. I’m not necessarily proud of that fact, its just my nature. But certainly I get rubbed just as raw by “purple colored glasses” fan as that fan gets at me. At the end of the day, though, we’re all in the same boat, but I daresay the internet is probably the wrong place to look for positive, rosy outlooks on anything, let alone sports…Go Rox!

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 2:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, and believe me, I'm really not trying to control

What people express on the blog or many more comments and users would have been banned or erased quite some time ago. Obviously I’m letting these and other criticisms of my administration of the blog stand, but I’m also sensitive to the several e-mails I’ve received this season from fans who once posted frequently on this site who have been so completely turned off by the constant negativism that they have asked to have their accounts erased, “retired” from the blog or taken other similar action which also indicate the erosion of Purple Row’s value to Rockies fans. Honest dialog is fine, but so much of what’s left is one-sided and myopic. I don’t mean to single you out at all in this, either. You can see the conversation above about the rotation for more undo negativity. It seems that rather than being blind shills, so many fans on the Row right now have gone into a sky-is-falling chicken little mentality. I don’t think either side’s better, I just want more balance, and I’ve had far more defections from the Purple Colored Glasses camp than I’m having from the Bruised Purple and Black side this summer.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 2:26 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, we don't see that.....

you get e-mails from Purple Colored Glasses fans asking to quit the site. So I understand your point of view. However, you also need to know that there may be far more “silent” fans who never e-mail you and are turned off by “rah-rah” optimism as well. That’s why I wrote that honest dialogue and all viewpoints should be welcome by the moderator without commenting on which viewpoints may be right or wrong to express.

This is a “marketplace of ideas”, as are all blogs and message boards. To request that it be “balanced”, i.e. equal parts pessimism and optimism, is really not that appropriate. The “free market” of thoughts will take care of itself and correct itself as circumstances warrant. Sometimes it’s good that there’s bias toward negativitiy as such unbalanced sentiment might actually be a bullish indicator for the team, just as it often is for the stock market. In short, if I were you, I wouldn’t ever try to control the quantity of opinions expressed here, pro or con, in order to achieve so-called “balance”.

by GoRoxGo on Aug 13, 2008 2:36 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a mischaracterization...

And I don’t know exactly where this rumor got started that Purple Row or other blogs were free markets. Just like political blogs or the Chinese Internet or all those Boutiques that quietly punt me out on Rodeo Drive, they should be carefully controlled and monitored markets catering to a specific clientele. You’ll see the same sort of discussions on what is and isn’t appropriate commentary on Red State, Daily Kos, Feministing or many other forums. If users get too antagonistic, administrators give them the boot.

I’m just saying, I like the idea of Purple Row being open, but in the end, it’s not, and like it or not, I’ll have the final say in this matter.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 2:44 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Eh hem.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 2:48 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, I get it, Rox Girl......

You are essentially saying that this blog has an agenda, just as DailyKos has a liberal agenda (to promote liberal policies or candidates) or RedState has a conservative agenda. BTW, I see that SB Nation is owned by the founder of DailyKos. Bet not too many people know that!

I suppose I am to assume that PR’s agenda is to promote a happy place for Rockies fans to congregate and root for the team. A sort of “virtual Rockies fan club”, if you will. If so, I completely understand how you want to limit the negativity around here. There are other forums for ranting about teams.

So, while you seem to welcome naysayers or complainers, you don’t want PR to be known as the place for people to set up their virtual soapboxes to vent. Am I interpreting this correctly?

by GoRoxGo on Aug 13, 2008 4:23 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I let that

little “secret” (about Markos owning the company) out in May 2007.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 4:38 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Really? Wow.

Learn something new everyday. I wasn’t aware of that, myself.

Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 13, 2008 5:58 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

Rox Girl put it best in the rules and regulations:

Purple Row was built on insightful, positive, forward-thinking commentary when it comes to the Rockies.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 4:43 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

* throws $0.02 on the table *

First things first…GoRoxGo, I would encourage you to check out some of the other SBN blogs on the other baseball teams. They run the gamut from blind optimism to awful pessimism. A good deal of these blogs are nothing but inane comments posted by “rah rah” fans (not to call anyone out, but have you seen Lookout Landing? The comments there are all one-liners, and make everyone here look like over-talkative windbags). That would drive me away very quickly.

On the other hand…I make maybe 3 posts on Purple Row per month, now, because it’s just too damned negative. I remember a post last year during the “stretch run”, when someone said something to the effect of, “Isn’t this great? It’s like watching a game when you already know the outcome is a Rockies win!”. I feel that Purple Row has swung the entirely opposite direction now. People join Game Threads for the sole purpose of making big long sighs and directing negative comments towards nearly everyone on the team. Take last night’s Game Thread for example. The first (and only) mention of a “Go Rockies” was Russ, in the initial post. It only took 2 posts for someone to question Hurdle in an angry manner (“Why the f*ck is he batting clean-up?”), and then 2 posts later the posters proclaimed the season dead and over with…in the first inning.

Now, please don’t misunderstand me here. No one on the team is immune to criticism. Hurdle makes mistakes. O’Dowd makes mistakes. The Monfort Bros. make mistakes. The entire coaching staff makes mistakes. Hell, even the Greatest Rockie Of All Time®, Mr. Todd Helton, had 2 errors last year, in his Greatest Season of All Time (before anyone jumps on me, those are hyperbolic simply for hyperbolic effect, nothing more). Yes, everyone on the team makes mistakes, and yes, it’s alright to call them on them.

But the “line” is when you go from questioning decisions to decrying the team as the”worst in baseball history ever”. That is the kind of attitude that drives people like me from the site. When I come here, I want good baseball talk with a Rockies bias, and some chat with a few of my friends. I want to be able to discuss both Tulowitzki’s shortcomings AND his prowess. Granted, it’s a lot easier to see one thing than the other right now, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not room for both here.

When Rox Girl says that she wants a balance here, it’s not that she wants to force naysayers such as yourself to put on the Purple Colored Glasses, nor does she want to disallow Russ from posting “Go Rockies” in his game threads. There just needs to be a place here on Purple Row for the casual fan to slip in and cheer on the Rockies, right next to everyone else.

In the end, Purple Row is a place for us to do just that; talk about, analyze, and ultimately cheer on the boys in purple pinstripes. And while criticisms are the healthiest form of patriotism, it can’t be all that occupies your mind.

by oo_nrb on Aug 13, 2008 2:56 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Or in other words,

read the rules and regulations everyone agreed to abide by when signing up on the new platform. And, yes, it’s a living document.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 3:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I suppose those would be other words…and less words, too :) .

And to show how often I come into comment threads, I just saw your new avatar, Russ. From the little preview picture of your new avatar, you look a bit like Matt Holliday.

by oo_nrb on Aug 13, 2008 3:28 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

That's better than

being told I look like Clay Aiken. {shivers} It happened a few weeks ago.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 3:55 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic

but I’m not sure I get it. Are the defectors mad that not enough people are finding a brightside to this season? Or is it that there are simply more people upset about this season and expressing that frustration than in years past? Certainly bashing Yorvit to death is approved around here, along with Hurdle and other vets. Somewhere there’s a line, I suppose.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 2:41 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Bashing Yorvit and Hurdle to death...

Have been specifically mentioned in a couple of the e-mails, actually. I think you can find a clue in DeepPurple’s comment, that they see the commentators on the site as fans of misery more than they are fans of the Rockies.

I don’t agree with them in this, obviously Redhawk dished out to go to the game last night, if he wasn’t a fan that wouldn’t happen in a year like this, and I’m sure you and GoRoxGo would still gladly go to a Rockies game over many other activities. I really don’t mind the pessimistic views, it’s just that many of the points have gotten stale and repetitive. I may have to cull the herd a bit to let some of the thoughtful sunshine back in.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 3:07 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Can't help myself

but is there a difference between Fans of Misery and Fans of the Rockies? Har har.

Point taken. I’ll limit myself to thoughts that are not “stale and repetitive” going forward, assuming I am capable of such. Probably not.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 3:15 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Well for the record

I went to about 20 games in 05 too. And the Rockies really stunk then. I’m personally a fan of baseball. The Rockies are the team in the city I live in, and city I love.

But do I think this organization is on the right track? No (actually Hell no)...this maybe one of the worst run organizations in all of baseball.

I don’t like what I saw from this team this year. I don’t like what I see for this team next year. I don’t like losing. I find no sunshine in it. In fact I think the Monforts owe the city of Denver so much more than the crap we have.

There are good points, even on a crappy team with a crappy organization I guess, it’s just that there is so much bad to comment on, it’s far more easier.

But you want sunshine: I love Tornadoughs!

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 4:39 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I wholeheartedly support...

A cooldown on the negative rhetoric. OK, tough season and many factors are to blame and there’s nothing wrong with a forensic sort of “what’s gone wrong” dialog but crimany, aren’t the Rockies something we are here to enjoy? I kind of use baseball and the Rox to escape the negativity and hopelessness of the “real world” because it’s entertainment, it is actually only a game.

Thanks Russ and Rox Girl for a great forum and I’ve learned a lot about the game from my fellow posters. I’m still trying to wrap my head around VORP, PECOTA (turns out that’s not an Italian dish – who knew?) and the like.

It’s hard to stay upbeat in a bad year but there are still things about this team to revel in.

by Since1993 on Aug 14, 2008 1:06 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Not really a defector...

As I still come to PR everyday, just as I have since the site started (as one of the original Rockies bloggers, we all kinda had to stick together at that point). But I read the comments less often than I used to and I never venture into the game threads anymore (OK, there are rare exceptions, like when I’m overaggresively tooting my own horn about calling the Livan Hernandez nuclear meltdown). It’s not that I don’t necessarily agree with some of the sentiments posited here by what you would call the ‘pessimists’ – the underlying theme, which is that this season has been a disappointment, isn’t really arguable. It just gets to be too over the top. Seriously, before games are even played there are posts about how stupid the lineup is and how terrible our pitcher is and how much everybody is ‘full of FAIL LOL’ (seriously, guys, way to pound that dead horse even further into the ground). It just gets to be the same thing over and over again, every single day, and I’m sick of it.

I enjoy being a Rockies fan. Even when they’re bad, I enjoy rooting for the team. I enjoy being happy when Yorvit Torreabla hits a double down the line instead of thinking about how badly he’s going to ‘FAIL LOLZ!!!!’ I like watching Manny Corpas put together a 1-2-3 inning and put his season back together even in the 9th inning of a loss. Fandom doesn’t make me miserable. Disappointed, sure, but not miserable. And I’ve judged the game threads to be a one-stop shop for misery. That’s why I don’t go to them anymore.

I still enjoy the heck out of reading Rox Girl and Russ’s posts, and the Pebble Reports are the first thing I read every day (when they go up in the morning, that is – I kid, I kid). I just choose not to wallow in the negativity of the comments and game threads – and naturally, in a season like this, there’s going to be more of that kind of thing, but you folks sometimes really do go too far. (I’d like to challenge anyone to find an optimist among the regular game-threaders. I’m not sure it can be done.)

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Aug 13, 2008 3:13 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm

probably the closest.

"Keep your head down, and inch toward daylight." - Blade of Tyshalle

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Aug 13, 2008 3:54 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

SOOOO......

when’s the game thread going to go up?

I have a lot of important internet complaining to do

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Aug 13, 2008 5:12 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Up in the morning

What a coincidence. the Pebble Reports are the first thing I write when I actually wake up in the morning. No guarantees when I wake up in the afternoon. :)

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 4:02 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Take back the game threads

This has been a very interesting thread to read. I was beginning to think that all Rockies fans were pessimists, when in actuality it would seem that…. ummm….. The optimists were just fed up with the pessimism and assumed the worst and that PurpleRow wasn’t worth posting on…. Huh?
Okay, in all seriousness…. I’ve seen a few people posting here that I haven’t seen in awhile, and I miss their insight. They were part of the reason why I became a PR addict last year. It’s a rare day when I go on a game thread myself for the same reasons mentioned. The string of “FAIL”s and almost zero discussion beyond speculating who will FAIL next reminds me too much of Junior High. But, that’s probably to be expected if everybody who has something positive to say stops posting. Perhaps it’s not the fault of the pessimists after-all. They are what they are and that’s okay as long as they’re respectful about it. Perhaps it’s up to the rest of us to speak our viewpoints louder.
Either that, or I’ve just ticked off both camps. ;)

by IowaRockie on Aug 13, 2008 4:44 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Game threads

I watch the games in the other room so I don’t post actively in game threads except to remark about incredible plays or to complain about especially boneheaded managerial decisions (like pinch hitting Glendon Rusch).

Maybe I am not the only person who has the game thread open but is not really actively paying attention to the thread while the game is being played live. Just a thought as to why some people don’t post much in game threads (but post in other threads).

by MADness on Aug 13, 2008 4:49 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Me too

Well that’s me too really. Geting too old to keep running from the couch to the computer. I’m two years older than Helton for crying out loud!
But I do remember the game threads being much more balanced last year. And not just when we were winning either. Another possibility may be that we’re all still just wiped out from last years pennant run. I still have a slight hang-over from the Holliday slide myself.

by IowaRockie on Aug 13, 2008 4:54 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

The Rockies (and baseball) are not everything.

I think it’s too easy for people to forget that often on the game threads. I love baseball (and the Rockies, obviously), but it is not “my world”. I stay away from the game threads b/c it seems that too many of the negative posters take it just too serious. But my guess is that this is the correlation. For a lot of the negative posters, the Rockies are their world. And by no means do I mean that to be a bad thing. My point is that the opposite is people like me, who can find the Rockies and baseball to be a bright spot in our lives, regardless of how well they are playing. I don’t need to vent on them (and thus join game threads to do so). I’ve got plenty of things in my life which are more stressing, or for that matter, can make a bad game decision or play that much more bearable (my daughter’s smiling face.)

Oh, and by the way, the negativity is not uncommon. It happens in every game thread regardless of the team. The more posts usually just means that much more negativity. The game threads on Viva El Birdos are unbearable.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Throwing in my two cents

I’ve left a blog due to overly negative remarks before – I used to post constantly on Athletics Nation, but no longer, due to that fact. And although there is a lot of negativity here, it’s not nearly as bad. I can see why it might drive some people away.

I don’t think anyone should have the right to say they’re a “better fan” than anyone else. People just root differently. I guess that’s the cause of my distress…I don’t mind the negativity. What I mind is when the personal attacks show up, and someone’s wrong for either being negative or positive.

Personally, I find it very difficult to be really optimistic about the Rockies this year…everyone was expecting them to perform at a level they’ve barely touched this year, and after almost five months of waiting for them to turn it around, it’s really hard for me to find the silver linings. I’m entirely fed up with waiting for something to happen and watching the same thing happen, over, and over, and over again.

I watched the entire game last night, thinking the Rockies were somehow going to come back. I still desperately want them to do better, but after watching this homestand, it’s hard to believe, and it gets hard to find the purple in the sunglasses. Therefore, the negativity makes complete sense to me.

It feels like the game threads are always the darkest places on blogs like this, because we, as fans, are constantly expecting and wanting our players to either do something or not do something, and posts are reactions to what’s going on in the game. The Rockpiles are the place for analysis and discussions about trades. Just as far as I can tell…and I think that’s okay. I can see why someone would only see the negativity if they only looked through the game threads, and maybe we can do better about what we post.

I think the problems come when the personal attacks do. That’s at least what bothers me the most. We all have different ways of rooting for our team and viewing what they do…and no way is “right”.

by Squeaky on Aug 13, 2008 4:51 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I posed the question.....

to get a conversation going. I wasn’t stating that they were losing on purpose as fact. Only that the appearance at the time was that the effort wasn’t there.

by GoRoxGo on Aug 13, 2008 1:45 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Most disappointing team in baseball

Absolutely. Not only to the fans, but to the media who pretty much universally had us winning the (competitive) West or at least a strong WC challenger. This team has failed from top to bottom. Really, really a shame.

by Teekalong on Aug 13, 2008 10:46 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Jayson Nix

can’t play overseas either. Errant throwing in the bottom of the ninth costs USA against South Korea.

InToddwetrust

by InToddwetrust on Aug 13, 2008 2:22 PM MDT   0 recs

It's a Draw

OK, both sides (too negative and too positive) have made their points. At various times I’ve agreed with each one. No harm is disagreeing, just in being over-the-top. We all probably know where that unmarked line is. Let’s just all agree that it is/was tough being a Rox fan this year.
Frankly, the discussion I still find most interesting as well as frustrating is that dealing with the starting pitching for next year. My own opinion is simple:
1) if not drafted, #1’s are almost impossible for mid-market teams to get.
2) nobody trades good pitching (and I mean really good pitching like Haren) unless they get really good prospects in return.
3) our really good prospects appear to be Chacin, Fowler, Morales, Hirsch, Reynolds, and Hynick. I’d throw Stewart into this mix even though he’s now with the big club.
4) none of those names represent “can’t miss” prospects. We don’t have any of those.
5) so, some combination of these players will have to be offered, along with a Holliday or Atkins (depending on whether they can be re-signed) in order to be a real player for a true #1 pitcher. Thinking we can trade at that level by patching together a bunch of second tier names from either the Springs or Tulsa is a fool’s game. If anything, I think we’ve already waited too long in a couple of cases when it comes to extracting good trade value for our better prospects.
6) personally, I’d trade any of those names if it meant we could really get a #1. Realistically, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Right now, I think we’d get the most value by trading Chacin and/or Fowler. They would be the cornerstone of my trade package.
7) so, as I’ve said before, I’d try to re-sign our stars sooner rather than later, and, if unsuccessful, I’d trade Holliday, Atkins, Helton, etc., for whatever I could get now (assuming, at a minimum, that meant some good prospects). Then I’d move the younger position guys up and play them everyday. In fact, I’d do that starting RIGHT NOW. Then, I’d work on our bullpen, an area that most teams can improve from within. It looks like we have two or three relievers who should definitely be ready by next April (Register, Weathers, maybe even Mattheus). Like everyone else, I state the obvious here: we can’t do any more of the Viz, Kip, Redman, Livan, ad nauseum moves. I get dizzy just thinking about the $$$ thrown away on these projects.
8) My starting rotation next year would probably be: Cook, Jimenez, Francis (though I admit I’d be open to trading him), Hirsch, and Reynolds.

Those are my thoughts. I welcome all comments, pro or con. Please be specific—no more “fire Clint, fire Apo, fire the GM”, etc. Given our resources, what would you do?
Let’s have a real discussion.

by hobfan on Aug 13, 2008 5:13 PM MDT   0 recs

Ahhhh yes.... Back to the subject at hand!

My opinion on your points:
1) Agreed. You can trade for those prospects, but once a pitcher is a true #1…. Forget it. There are also the rare exception’s involving incredible luck ala Santana, but that is by far the exception.
2-3) Agreed
4) No prospect is “can’t miss”, but I’m thinking Fowler may well find himself listed as one of the 10 to 20 best prospects in baseball.
5) Mmmmmm…. Don’t know. Teams can find themselves in a position where the #1 pitcher demands to be traded and needs to go to save the team. Don’t think that’s the case with Halladay, but those kind of things do make it easier to swing a deal. I’m just really biased, but I find the idea of Holliday/Francis/Any prospect not named Fowler for Halladay/Rios a very interesting concept. Which won’t happen, but is fun to toss around seeing as how 08 has been such a letdown.
6) I just really don’t want Fowler going anywhere.
7) Agree with a lot of this, but I do hope to see Helton retire a Rockie…. Just because he’s worth more to Colorado than what any team would give back and/or pick up on his contract. Also have a hard time dissing the Viz/Wells type deals. Sometimes those are the only moves to make. Those moves would be a lot easier to digest when they don’t work out however if the team invested a bit more in their draft. The lack of impact talent in the minor leagues has been bugging me for over a year and is only getting worse.
8) I’d be okay with that rotation going into 09. I would LOVE to add a new name in the #1 through #3 slots, but that’s really not bad. Not great, but I’d take it over at least half of the other major league staffs that are not only worse on paper, but don’t even have the potential/hope of the Rockies bottom three.

by IowaRockie on Aug 13, 2008 5:56 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with points #1-4, but I start veering away at point #5

I don’t think a mid-market team wins for very long by putting all of its hopes into one set of players, but needs a constant stream of quality to maintain a year in, year out contending pace. I think the Rockies over the last two seasons, this depressing one included, are just barely entering that phase of the success cycle. To give up everything like the D-backs did for Haren cuts the growth potential quickly and limits the team’s ceiling in terms of wins and years it will be competitive. I think the moves by our divisional rivals have left a pretty wide mulit-season opening that the Rockies and Giants are in pretty good positions to exploit. I don’t think you give that superior position up when your best moves for right now would still leave you in an inferior current position.

So specifically, what I do for 2009 if I’m the Monfort’s and O’Dowd is

1) set aside a chunk of money for a Jon Garland or Derek Lowe second tier GB pitchers on a three year contract at the max to just give a measure of stability to the rotation while the kids emerge
2) trade Holliday for the best available package, the money saved on him and Fuentes should cover the starting pitcher
3) like you, I’m not spending on the Vizquel’s of the world, but calling up Register or Mattheus or Daley to man the fort until Weathers is ready
4) trade Taveras, he’s not going to be happy in a bench role and there might be someone who’d give him a shot at starting, but I’d tell Yorvit to suck it up and do his backup job. Yeah, I actually keep him because I don’t think we’re going to get equal value in trade even if we eat his contract, and I don’t think any of our current AAA or AA catchers would do as well as him next year.
5) Fix Tulo – this should be up higher
6) Sign a scrapheap project reclamation pitcher just for fun because if I’m the Monfort’s and O’Dowd, it’s something I like to do.
I think otherwise, the team’s not that far off, with Fowler hopefully having an easy adjustment, all eight position players would be at least close to a 100 OPS+ (also assuming Bake’s somewhat for real which is easier to assume than it is for Barmes). At that point would basically just be a matter of getting a rebound from a couple of our in house starters, and we have several with the talent to make it happen. If they don’t by May, that’s when I go after the big desperation get me a starter now trade.

by Rox Girl on Aug 13, 2008 6:12 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Only difference is I'd move Atkins as well

and, not in the same trade, get a real everyday second baseman. Spilborghs can play everyday in left, and he’s been our second best hitter in EQA. I don’t like breaking Stewart into left knowing full well that Spilly’s more than capable and should be paired with Stewart in the lineup, not as a caddy.

Atkins value is still heavily overstated, as he doesn’t walk anymore and just hits for so-so power. Stew’s passing Atkins in RZR the more he plays, so now the defensive advantage is showing in numbers as well. His EQA is ok around the .275 mark, but still pales to both Stewart and Spilly’s, so you want those guys getting more AB’s down the road. Lastly, Atkins wants to get paid, and the numbers suggested have been big. Enough people will buy into the surface stats to consider this year a great year for him, strike while hot.

As for second, maybe you deal some young talent for Ellis or Roberts. Maybe Baltimore might like a package of Barmes for now, Nelson for later, and Rodriguez or Rogers for the requisite B level pitcher?

by David OhNo on Aug 13, 2008 6:29 PM MDT