Purple Row: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Steve McNair Dead - Former NFL QB Shot and Killed


Thursday Morning Rockpile:

Okay, on the docket for today:

Brian Fuentes' tightrope act last night turned out successful, but I'd like a few more 1-2-3 appearances from him from here on out just to help make sure that he jumps into the free agency pool and won't be tempted to accept arbitration. I want those draft picks, dang it.

Oscar Villareal amounts to a "cellar air salvo" from the Rockies, a bunch of stale wind that doesn't amount to much impact. But I do have to admit he's got a great name for anagram generators. "Larvae sac I roll,"  he says.

Spilly's taking his swings now, the Rockies could use his bat for a little more right handed production besides what we're getting primarily from Holliday and Iannetta.

One of the biggest differences between 2007 and 2008 has been a big drop in production value relative to the league from most of our position players. Last year we had five of the MLB's top 60 players in terms of VORP (Matt, Todd, Tulo, Hawpe and Atkins) but so far this year just Holliday cracks that list. With a big night yesterday, Hawpe's inching closer to joining him, however. Brad currently ranks 66th, and his consistency from year to year (even though he's pretty streaky within them) bodes well for his ability to retain value over the course of the extension he signed last winter.

0 recs | Comment 11 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

One interesting note about last night's game

According to baseball-reference.com, in the ninth inning Fuentes took the Rockies from a 92% win expectancy down to 55, and then back up to 100. The top three changes in win expectancy during the game were on the last four batters he faced. Just thought that was interesting.

That’s the first time Brian has struggled with his control in a while. Maybe a little rusty? When he can’t get his breaking balls close to the plate he’s usually in trouble.

by Roberbola on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

win expectancy

I’d love to “win expectancy change” incorporated as a player stat. This could be expressed as change-per-PA for hitters and change-per-IP for pitchers.

Essentially, for a hitter:
First PA: WE goes from 45% to 50: +5
2nd PA: WE goes from 53 to 49: -4
3rd PA: WE goes from 52 to 70%: +18

Average: +9/3 = 3% per PA

For pitchers:
1st inning pitched: WE goes from 15% to 9: -6
2nd inning pitched: WE goes from 6 to 0: -6

average = -12/2 = -6% per IP

Why not simply take the 15% difference and divide by 2 IP? Because the hitters contributed to a -3% drop between the first and second inning that the pitcher pitched – he should not be penalized for this (nor should he be rewarded if they score 10 runs and push the WE from 9% to 90%).

I think the data is out there, someone just needs to write a script.

This will give more weight to a guy who gets hits in truly clutch situations. Maybe one guy has a .900 OPS in RISP situations, but gets most of his hits in 9-0 wins. (Yeah, I know that there is a stat for “late and close”, but I think this would be more precise, as it would treat different late-and-close situations differently.)

by kosmo99 on Aug 14, 2008 1:18 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It sounds ambitious

but if it isn’t a repeatable skill, then it may not be that valuable.

Who knows, maybe this would finally be the clutch skill that someone finds consistency in, but when you dabble in “clutchiness” or “opportunity stats,” it’s hard to find year-in year-out consistency.

by David OhNo on Aug 14, 2008 7:59 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Repeatable

I’m not really sure that this falls into cluch or opportunity. A bit, but I think it would tend to reward guys who tend to get positive results in their at bats. A double with nobody on and nobody out in the 5th inning isn’t “clutch”, but it should boost the win probability.

Quite a few of the same names seem to be popping to the top of the leaderboard each year, suggesting that perhaps it is a repeatable skill.

by kosmo99 on Aug 15, 2008 8:58 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They have that stat

it’s called WPA (Win Probability Added).

It’s a fun little tool that every year people try to trot in MVP discussions as being meaningful even though it’s obviously a junk stat. And by junk stat I mean junk stat – it’s the only stat in baseball that actually punishes a player for better performance. An extreme example, but the most obvious, is to look at a player that hits a solo home run in the first inning and then another solo home run in the ninth inning with a 1-0 lead. Even though that hitter is single handedly responsible for all the scoring of the game, his WPA is only around +13.4% (depending on the outs and home team).

If that player had the foresight to only strike out in that first at bat and then hit a home run with two outs in the bottom of the ninth in a tie game, he would have had a WPA of +43.7. WPA also over-values pitchers that play behind bad offenses and offenses that have to overcome poor pitching performances.

Although, I will note that there’s a variation on the win probability that looks at particular in-inning situations and creates a run expectancy matrix. Baseball Prospectus uses this data to create a stat called Adjusted Runs Prevented that looks at the game stat when a reliever enters and compares the number of runs that would score on average to how many runs actually scored. So if a pitcher comes in with no outs and a runner on third the run expectancy of that game situation is 1.452 (chart here). If said pitcher only allows the one inherited run to score, they’ll be credited for +.452 runs prevented. If instead a pitcher came into the same situation, but with two outs, the run expectancy would be .334 and allowing the runner to score would would give the pitcher a -.666 runs prevented. Since this looks only at in-game state and not the score, I think it’s the ideal measurement for reliever effectiveness, but I should note that if there’s any aspect of the game that makes the most sense to be measured by WPA, it’s reliever performance. WPA can be a rather blunt tool at times, but it does a better job than ERA when you’re dealing with inherited runners.

I’m a Diamondbacks fan, but I was watching the Colorado feed of the game and I heard your announcers talk about how Hawpe was getting most of his RBI in those more “important” late inning situations, but personally, I find that line of reason to be extremely faulty. Sure, the ninth inning game-winning home run is really flashy, but if I had to choose between a hitter that does his best hitting in the first five innings or the last four, I’d choose the former every time.

It’s absolutely huge for a team to score early. It takes the pressure off your starting pitching, increases the chances of a short outing from the opposing starter and makes it easier to score in the late game since modern baseball managers use their lesser relievers when their trailing than they would if it was a save situation. Of course, these were the same announcers that later said the main failing in Conor Jackson’s offensive game is his inability to hit with two outs and RISP. I guess the concept of small sample sizes must elude them.

by dahlian on Aug 14, 2008 9:59 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Junk stat

I doubt that it’s the “it’s the only stat in baseball that actually punishes a player for better performance”. Just off the top of my head, WHIP can also punish a player for better performance.

Scenario: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out.

Result #1:
Batter 1: Intentional walk
Batter 2: Double play

Result #2:
Batter 1: Ground ball to 2B, throw to 1st for the force. Run scores.
Batter 2: any sort of out

The pitcher in result #1 actually does a better job – but it has a negative impact on WHIP.

Adjusted runs prevented sounds cool.

by kosmo99 on Aug 15, 2008 7:03 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But going forward

there’s a very good chance that pitcher #2 has better prospects for success than pitcher #1. One need look no further than 2007 Hernandez, Livan to see a pitcher that threw “better” than his WHIP on the back of 19 GIDP.

But obviously WHIP is a bit “junky” as well, insofar as it is nothing more than a lazy man’s tool for pitcher evaluation. It hints at one of the key elements of great pitching (the ability to keep men off base), but, like WPA, it’s sledgehammer approach makes it just about useless for anything other than roto league. You don’t have to concoct any fancy scenarios to show that WHIP is misleading – it all comes to down to it’s most basic assumption that credits a walk with the same value as a home run.

As a predictive tool both WHIP and WPA are far outclassed by an even rather basic stat like FIP. Of course, even more exciting than FIP are the newer defense independent models that also incorporate the stats inc. hit trajectory data to further refine the numbers so that pitchers like Cook, Webb and latest wunderkind Brad Ziegler, who induce ground balls all day (and by extension increase their chances for double plays and decrease the opportunities for XBH) are put on a more equal footing with the fly ball pitchers whose BIP are more likely to fall in play.

by dahlian on Aug 15, 2008 9:45 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another interesting stat I researched today - not sure why.

Just discovering the pot of gold that is baseball-reference. Of Matt Holliday’s 23 homers this year, 16 have been solo shots. That is a 70% clip. I looked at the career average of a few other comps: Teixeira 44, Braun 59, Howard 47. Holliday’s career average is 51.

Just in case anyone was looking for another reason why the Rockies aren’t scoring very many runs.

by Roberbola on Aug 14, 2008 4:00 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think

that says more about the guys hitting in front of him, than it says abouts Matt’s ability to drive in runs. Chances are that you’re going to hit solo shots if there usually isn’t anyone on base.

by 4thturn on Aug 14, 2008 6:33 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And this isn't getting better with Barmes

I plan to delve deeper into Barmes a little later, but as a leadoff hitter, this just isn’t going to be a helpful scenario for the offense, especially as we leave Coors. Barmes carries a .271 road OBP into Washington, making him an outs vacuum at the top of the order. Taveras wasn’t helping, but Barmes is even more threatening up there.

Considering that Barmes only has six steals, and a poor success rate, we aren’t valuing speed up there. Why not try Stewart up there? OBP is the name of the game, so while he still has a solid high K rate, he’s been one of the Rockies most patient hitters since returning. Spilly is still the best option, but obviously…

The Rockies have a top-of-the-order problem it has to solve next year, and though Fowler is the future up there, I don’t like putting that pressure on him out of the gate. Roberts will be the big name everyone hunts next year, but two buy low guys I like are Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson. Both have big walk rates and low BABIP’s. Weeks especially could be worth pursuiing. He’s improved his defense to average standards by RZR, still has some interesting speed, and Coors could jumpstart the BABIP woes of the last two years.

by David OhNo on Aug 14, 2008 8:15 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weeks...

I’d love for the Rockies to get Weeks. Even when hitting badly, his OBP is solid and he has some power. My guess, however, is that he won’t be cheap—his reputation has always outpaced his performance and I bet several teams might be willing to gamble decent money on his potential.

Nonetheless, I agree—the Rockies should be one of those teams making a bid.

by DenverBears on Aug 15, 2008 5:46 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Colorado Rockies, established 28 April 2005.

Community Guidelines

Start posting about the Rockies »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

P1_iannetta_small
At Bat/Entrance Music: 2009 Edition
Apt_visit_2_small
Some July Wallpaper Coming Soon!
Sleepy_jeff_small
Purple Row Fantasy League End of June Standings
Small
Manny being...cheap
Sleepy_jeff_small
Purple Row Prediction Competition Week 12
October_075-1_small
Making My First Trip to OAK and LA to Watch Rockies, Any Pointers?
Rockies_lost_americana_small
Shop PurpleRowCares!
Gvf_small
2009 Draft Pick Signings
Helton_small
What is Morales worth??
Small
Frontier promotion code?

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


GM & Manager

Gvf_small Russ

Li_l_rox_girl_small Rox Girl

Coaching Staff

Liquid_small Silverblood

P1_iannetta_small RockiesMagicNumber

Coorsfield3_small theoldgrizzlybear

67880020--bled-slovenia_small Poseidon's Fist

Sleepy_jeff_small Jabberwocky

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports