Thursday Morning Rockpile:

by Rox Girl on Aug 7, 2008 10:14 AM MDT in Rockpile

Don't trouble yourselves on our account, San Diego, if Jake Peavy wants to pitch against Johan Santana, I say by all means go ahead and let him.

I think the magic words that sell me on Livan Hernandez are in this paragraph:

De La Rosa would give the Rockies a left-hander in the bullpen other than closer Brian Fuentes - as well as a reliever capable of working multiple innings - which would seem to make veteran Kip Wells, who is on a $3.1 million contract, expendable when Hernandez is added to the roster.

Tracy Ringolsby's article indicates that the Rockies are willing to sink more costs into the bottom of the rotation by clearing out Wells in favor of Hernandez. While I certainly would not mind getting as fat a paycheck as these guys are getting, being able to write off the loss and eat these contracts shows the kind of financial flexibility the Rockies will need to stay competitive over coming seasons. There are going to be bad decisions made at times when building the team, that's a given anywhere. It's key to keep commitments small so that backing out of those bad decisions always remains an option. Think of the headache Los Angeles now has with Andruw Jones, for instance. The problem I have is that the Rockies seem too stubborn to admit sometimes when they've made their mistakes, even if the ones they've made of late have been relatively small compared early this decade.

Two games this afternoon, it should be a fun time, particularly if it turns out as well as the last three Coors Field double dips. Counting the day/night kick-off of last September's miracle run against the Dodgers, the Rockies have swept both games of the last three double headers at home.

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The Twins

show why they are a successful franchise. They have a LH SP they sent to the minors, and when he’s shown improvement, they let an aging Pitcher go to make room for him.

We have Morales in much the same situation. While he doesn’t have the experience that Liriano has, their being the same player to their respective organization can be used for an analogy.

We have a Manager and a Pitching Coach that like to work with older, more experienced players. Why do we sign reclamation projects, in this case a cast-off from a team in the same situation as the Rockies, as opposed to promoting the younger player so the Pitching Coach can work with him to get him straightened out.

Oh, thats right… Our Pitching Coach doesn’t work with younger Pitchers to get themover their problems… He feels comfortable “tweeking” experienced Pitchers that have already learned their craft by other Coaches.

The Twins have been following the “develop from within” tenet for a long time, and if the Rockies want to be successful at using this tenet, they should start following other organizations lead and cut loose the chaff on their roster, and start getting Coaches that fit their organizational tenet…

by rockieprogress on Aug 7, 2008 11:14 AM MDT 0 recs

This quote is what I'm refering to

From Tracy’s article:
“Hernandez was 10-8 with a 5.48 ERA in 23 starts for the Twins but lost seven of his final 11 decisions.”

Final 11 decisions… 4-7. That means he was 6-1 early in the season, and has shown his age since then.
Can we say Jose Mesa? Good early, but can’t continue the success after a couple of months…
That sounds like an old pitcher to me.

Are we actually hoping that Apodaca has a fountain of youth elixir that will help Livan regain what he’s lost?

I would rather keep JDLR in the rotation, flaws and all, than add Livan.

by rockieprogress on Aug 7, 2008 11:21 AM MDT up 0 recs

disagree....

I am in no way in favor of signing Hernandez (waste of money) and I’m not a big fan of reclamation projects in general, but I disagree with the idea that the Twins are the exemplar “good organization” in this case or that the Rockies need to bring up Morales. First, the Twins wasted months with Liriano in the minors while Hernandez pitched in the majors. It even got to the point that Liriano’s agent threatened a lawsuit (albeit one without much merit). As for Morales, the Rockies should be doing what is best for his development at this point. He is just starting to pitch well again and if the team feels he needs to build more confidence before going back to the majors, then that is what they should do. Barring a miracle, this season is lost—the Rockies should be making decisions to best benefit this team next year, not to chase after another miracle.

In addition, you are putting a lot of words into our manager and pitching coach’s mouth. Do you have quotes from them saying that they prefer to work with veteran pitchers? Most of the team is developed from within, more so than most teams.

by DenverBears on Aug 7, 2008 11:46 AM MDT up 0 recs

actions speak louder than words

Josh Fogg
Kip Wells
Mark Redman
Jose Mesa
Matt Herges

All of these Pitchers were signed to contracts as reclaimation projects. When they’ve shown they aren’t going to improve, have they been sent packing? Or, have they been given multiple chances to screw up (Herges not withstanding… He’s be OK).

This year, who did they bring up when they needed to fill a slot in the rotation for a couple of starts?
de los Santos? That’s the best we have in the Organization? An old reclaimation project?

You won’t find quotes stating they like to work with older, more experienced Pitchers and you know it.
But their actions are speaking very loudly.

If you are a young Pitcher, and you have a problem, we’ll send you down to work it out.
If you are an experienced Pitcher, and you have the same control problem, we’ll keep you around and help you work it out.

The Rockies Pitching Coach should be the most experienced Pitching Coach in the Organization, and yet, Francis had to go down to AA to work with that Pitching Coach to work on his mechanics.
That doesn’t seem strange to you? Wasn’t Francis quoted as saying he had worked with him before and wanted to work with him again to get straightened out?
What… Francis hasn’t worked with Apodaca for a couple of years now… What does that say about your MLB Coach when one of your most successful young Pitchers wants to go to AA to work with that Pitching Coach?

by rockieprogress on Aug 7, 2008 12:08 PM MDT up 0 recs

reclamation projects...

First, I’m not going to defend signing all the reclamation projects—I thought most of them were mistakes to begin with. Nonetheless, I don’t know the salary structure well enough to comment for sure, but you have to consider what the Rockies would gain to cut these guys. If the Rockies are on the line for most or all of the salary any way, then it doesn’t hurt to keep the guys around for insurance. In the case of the Twins, they saved some money, but not an incredible amount (I read 500K), so it may have been more as a favor to Hernandez than any money saving move.

Actually, before de los Santos there was Reynolds and before that was Morales. Would you have preferred they bring up Hirsh (45 BB in 69 innings), Morales again (who really wasn’t pitching that well at the time de los Santos was brought in), Hynick or Roe? The options were pretty limited.

Redman, Josh Towers, Victor Zambrano, Glendon Rusch and Kip Wells have spent substantial time in AAA this year, so I don’t think you can say “If you are a young Pitcher, and you have a problem, we’ll send you down to work it out. If you are an experienced Pitcher, and you have the same control problem, we’ll keep you around and help you work it out.”

As for whether Apodaca is a good pitching coach, I never said he was and won’t argue with you (although I tend to think it is hard to separate the quality of a pitching coach from the quality of his pitchers), but I don’t see much of any evidence that he doesn’t like to work with young pitchers. After all, isn’t Francis one of those veterans that you say he prefers to work with?

by DenverBears on Aug 7, 2008 12:42 PM MDT up 0 recs

No

Francis isn’t one of the ones that Apodaca likes to work with IMO.
He likes them to be 30+, with more MLB service time.
Rusch-34
Wells-31
Grilli-31
Viz-34
Herges-38
They all fit the same type of Pitcher IMO.

When they brought up de los Santos, they should’ve brought up Reynolds again.
He needs an out pitch. Everyone here can agree on that, but why isn’t Apodaca working with him to develop one? He was here for 11 games. What’s that on the calendar, 2mos? Yet, there was no progress in developing one.

Why couldn’t Apodaca get Morales to control his wildness?
It takes the AAA coach to rework his mechanics?

Thats my point, if it isn’t a small tweek that can get them straightened out, and with young Pitchers it rarely is a small tweek, it appears he doesn’t want to be the one to do it.

What was spring training for?
Last year, Morales was called up after he had been in the Minors, and he pitched fairly well. Yes he had some hiccups (all young players do) but overall he was acceptable for a 22yo.
This year, with him in camp for the entire spring, and the team counting on him, Apodaca couldn’t get him straightened out.

Its just my opinion, but I think the Pitching Coach needs to be replaced if the Rockies are going to folow the “promote from the farm-system” tenet.

by rockieprogress on Aug 7, 2008 2:44 PM MDT up 0 recs

Interesting

But I don’t think it’s that the Rockies have to rely on their AAA coach to work with Morales. Pitching in the majors is so much more demanding mentally and emotionally that it isn’t really the place for a struggling young pitcher to work out his issues. The players start pressing, the mechanics get worse, and the boos get louder. If you’re not careful, you have another Ankiel on your hands (though that’s turning out fairly well now). By moving Morales to AAA, you take the pressure off of him, allow him to relax and progress slowly. That isn’t a reflection on the pitching coach as much as it is on the pressure of pitching in the big leagues.

by mattrob on Aug 7, 2008 4:26 PM MDT up 0 recs

you said it.

i agree completely.

8-2 Home stand prediction still intact. We should be 5 games out heading out on the road. I have also been drinking heavily all morning in anticipation of the double header

by holliday5 on Aug 7, 2008 11:20 AM MDT 0 recs