Saturday Rockpile: The WBC--Mostly Harmless
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 8:06 AM MST
43 comments
Hey Rockies fans, I'm Jabberwocky and I'll be your guide to the Rockies news of the day. How do I describe myself? Three Words: Hardworking, Alpha Male, Jackhammer, Merciless, Insatiable...
Look out Rockies fans! It's now under a month until pitchers and catchers report for Spring Training in Tucson. In addition, anticipation (and anxiety) for the second incarnation of the World Baseball Classic is also building.
The mantra out there among many Rockies fans (those that pay attention anyway) is that they hope the World Baseball Classic doesn't mess up Ianetta, Hawpe, or even the Italian Stallion--Jason Grilli--irrecoverably. Thomas Harding looks back at Rockies in the 2006 WBC to see how it affected them. Many people on his list I admit that I forgot played for the Rockies. In any case, the whole argument comes down to a "more reps in games" versus "more reps in practice with team/more rest" quandary. Personally, I'm all for the WBC--I think that the players benefit most from live game action against a team that is trying hard to win. From my (admittedly small) experience as a player, playing in games was the best way for me to improve my skills. For Ianetta especially the WBC should be a very positive experience.
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Harding also sat down with Chris Nelson as part of his Batting Around series. Nelson seems to be a real wildcard for the Rockies as they build toward the future. He's shown brilliance and, well, some pretty serious fail. Is he the future answer at second base for the Rockies? I certainly hope so, as Nelson has the tools to be an upgrade over the current occupants of those middle infield slots on our roster. Only time will tell, I guess.
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Jack Etkin blogged about a nice game in Venezuela for Ubaldo. Performances like these bode extremely well for the Rockies--especially the fact that he only walked one. In my opinion, he's the best pitcher that the Rockies have developed (yes, better than Cook or Francis) and will only improve. My prediction: Jimenez gains an All-Star berth this year or next, if not both years.
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As for national sportswriters, CBS's Scott Miller provides a NL Offseason Overview for each team. In these tough economic times, it seems like almost every club's objective is to cut payroll. It reminds me of this quote from my favorite baseball movie: Major League.
Board Member 1: I've never heard of half of these guys and the ones I do know are way past their prime.
Charlie Donovan: Most of these guys never had a prime.
Board Member 2: This guy here is dead.
Rachel Phelps: Cross him off then.
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Finally, Jerry Crasnick examines the Giants, commenting that they just need some offense (Manny Ramirez in particular) to challenge for the NL West crown. I never thought I'd be saying this even three months ago, but the Giants scare me. Seriously. They've got one heck of a pitching staff and with the price tag of veteran free agent fielders decreasing rapidly, they could cheaply and quickly improve their offense dramatically. Mark my words: the Giants are more of a threat to the Rockies than any other NL West team this year and over the next few--especially if they add a bat or two.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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All right...
now hit me with your best shot. I can take it. Also, sorry it’s up a little late, but my internet shut down for a while there.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 8:09 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
no problem, being late happens. I'd rather have late and high quality than early and lacking...
I agree with almost all of your points here.
The Giants scare me too, and if they sign Manny, they could be serious trouble.
by Rox Girl on Jan 17, 2009 8:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily...
Brian Sabean doesn’t seem too interested in signing him. I don’t see really why he wouldn’t do it, besides the defensive concerns that come with putting Manny in LF in that park. I mean, the clubhouse has had Barry Bonds…how bad could Manny be?
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 8:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Giants Scary?
I don’t look at the Giants as scary. They are still missing a few pieces…like most of their batting order. They have a very nice pitching staff,and Bengie Molina.. Rowand had a career year in a band box in Philly. Adding Manny (and they could, they are a larger market team, and don’t have much payroll now) doesn’t make them world beaters, but would put them in the mix in the NL West with the Rockies, Dodgers, and Sneaky Snakes, and not also rans.
Lets look at the Giants line up right now:
C: Bengie Molina
1b Sandavol
2b: ? Frandeson ??
SS: Renteria
3B: ????
RF: Randy Winn
CF: Rowand
LF: Lewis/Roberts
Which one of these guys would start for the Rockies in 09 not named Molina? Maybe Winn, Maybe Rowand as our CF isn’t established.This is not a line up that scares me. Their pitching staff will keep them in games they shouldn’t be in, but that’s not scary.
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
by Redhawk on Jan 17, 2009 9:06 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
that their pitching staff is fantastic, so that even though they have a moribund offense, they’ll be dangerous throughout the year. My point is that if they add a Ramirez, a Hudson, and one of many other veteran free agents to be had for peanuts they’ll be a very dangerous opponent.
Even as currently constituted, the Giants scare me though. Adding some bats makes them terrifying.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 9:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
add enough players, and you can make any team scary. If you add Hudson at 2nd, Rameriz in LF, Dunn at first, and move Sandavol to 3rd, the Giants are scary, but you just added a third of the line-up that just isn’t there.
The only scary part is the Giants should have the ability to add these guys in payroll in theory
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
by Redhawk on Jan 17, 2009 9:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point.
It isn’t that farfetched that the Giants do this exact thing. They have holes to fill, as you’ve pointed out, money to spend, and there are people on the free agent market that will fill those holes more cheaply than they could have anticipated.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching wins
The reality is everyone was projecting basement production out of Frisco last year, and they nearly took third place in the division (albeit one sorely lacking in prestige). It was their pitching that brought them there, and it’s not far-fetched at all to think that they could pull off a solid run like the Rockies did in 07. They just need some pleasant surprises from their youngsters such as Sandoval to compliment their already robust pitching staff. No one says they’ll win the division, but they are undoubtedly on a stark upswing.
With that said, I have significant reservations that Lincecum can rebound from his ridiculous workload in 08 to pitch as well next season. But if he does….that’s SCARY
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2009 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
SI spotlighted Lincecum's delivery last year...
Every expert they talked to said he was going to breakdown. With the innings he’s been pitching I think he’s about due.
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
by Charlie77 on Jan 18, 2009 12:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't find the link right now
but I think Rox Girl cited a source recently that showed Lincecum had by far and away the most “abuse points” in MLB last year, and Cain was 4th.
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 18, 2009 12:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
May I be of assistance?
Jim’s article on Ben Sheets mentions Timcecum’s astronomical PAPs. His link to the raw data is here.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Jan 18, 2009 2:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
They're scary only in the NL West sense, true
Some of these times when I say stuff like that, I think those caveats should be inferred, but apparently I should be more specific.
by Rox Girl on Jan 17, 2009 9:21 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
no I think it's the word "scary" in general
scary, to me is…“Oh crap I don’t want to play those guys as we might get swept” sense. Not in the this might be close, and competitive series. The Giants to me are not Scary…in fact they are closer to “laughing stock” then “Scary”…..granted they are neither right now, and are just, “respectable” due to their pitching staff. .
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
by Redhawk on Jan 17, 2009 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
For me it's
“oh crap, they might win the division” scary. And with that pitching, who knows what could happen in the playoffs—if they get there, the Giants could definitely be “scary” in any given series.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 9:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's what scares me to,
Because if the Giants win the division, what has the world come to? How bad must the Rockies actually be that my purple tinted glasses have been covering up all this time? That’s definitely a scary thought to me, and that’s exactly why the Giants scare me.
by Rox Girl on Jan 17, 2009 9:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Redhawk
This team is all pitching and even that gets downgraded a little extra when you consider that defense. Add in Manny and it gets even worse.
The Giants won’t win 81 games.
by roxhead on Jan 17, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny will sign with LA
if you beleive the strong comments Ned Colletti made to the MLB Hot Stove folks yesterday. When asked if the rumor that the Giants are interested in signing Manny, Colletti responded “We want him bad enough that I don’t think it matters who else is going to get involved.” Sounds like he will outbid any other team. Welcome to LA Manny.
Furcal
Martin
Ethier
Manny
Loney
Kemp
Blake
Dewitt
Not a bad lineup at all, especially if you factor in more growth from Kemp, Ethier, Martin and Loney…and possibly Dewitt, and a healthy Furcal. Pitching staff is up in the air, bullpen is fine.
So LA doesn’t scare you guys???
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Jan 17, 2009 9:29 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Their pitching isn't as good as San Francisco's.
Pitching scares me more than hitting. However, if they do sign Manny the Dodgers will definitely be a “scary” team.
As has been discussed ad nauseum on this blog, the Dodgers’ rotation is thin and their lineup isn’t better than the Rockies’ (in my opinion). They have potential for 90+ wins and 90+ losses, especially depending upon injuries.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 9:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lineup isn't better than the Rockies?
wow…really?
Martin=Iannetta
Loney>Helton
Dewitt=Barmes
Atkins>Blake
Manny>Smith
Kemp>Spilborgh
Ethier=Hawpe
where are you better other than 3b?
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Jan 17, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bite
Martin=Iannetta
Loney=Atkins
Dewitt<Barmes/Baker (I could have gone =)
Furcal=Tulowitzki
Blake < Stewart
Manny > Smith
Kemp = Spillbourghs (Spilly is so underrated, and I like Kemp)
Either < or = to Hawpe. (If I can call Spilly = then I guess I’d put Either = as well)
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
by Redhawk on Jan 17, 2009 10:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I will also bite:
Martin=Iannetta
Loney<Atkins
Dewitt=Baker/Barmes
BlakeSmith
Kemp>Spilborghs
Ethier
If we have both Stewart and Atkins in the lineup, I’ll take ours over yours…though if Helton plays at the expense of one of them our lineups look fairly equal.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 11:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't underestimate
the power of OBP. Helton had by his standards a horrifying year in 2008. Yet he still got on base more at a better rate than any Rockie except for Holliday and Spilborghs. If he’s in the lineup and hitting second, he would be theoretically be getting good pitches to hit in front of the middle of the lineup, or he’d be getting walked in front of run produces. This of course assumes he’s healthy enough to contribute at least as Helton circa 07. If he can’t, he’ll be on the bench anyway.
Helton set the standards astronomically high at the turn of the milennium, and many fans don’t see him as the productive hitter he still is, regardless of his now Barmes-like power.
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2009 12:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points.
However, I tend to take a pessimistic view of Helton’s health. I don’t think that he’ll ever be a consistent producer for us again—not with that back. He’ll do well when he’s healthy—I just don’t expect him to be healthy much—and he’ll often play when he’s hurt, and that will hurt the club overall.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 1:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
he’ll often play when he’s hurt, and that will hurt the club overall.
I’m not so sure of that. I recognize he has a ridiculous salary that lobbies for playing time, but he’s been quoted as saying he knows he pushed himself too much when he was injured. Hopefully he and Hurdle will realize that the emergence of Ian Stewart affords them the opportunity to rest Helton should his back (or anything else) become a problem in 09.
From what I understand of the surgery, it arthroscopically removed a bulging section of a spinal disc that interfered with a nerve leading to his left leg, causing pain, numbness and loss of strength. As far as back surgeries go, it’s not particularly invasive, and it was deemed a complete success. It takes longer than a couple months for a disc to bulge like that, so the original cause of his pain should theoretically removed. Granted, he still has to regain strength after the surgery and there’s no guarantee of that (actually, the reports seem pessimistic on that front), but the back issue should be better.
I certainly understand your (and all of Rockie Nation’s) pessimism towards Helton’s back. A lot can go wrong even if his back is perfectly healed. My purple shaded glasses and sheer hope along with what I’ve stated have lead to a personal state of guarded optimism.
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2009 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not with their pitching staff
but they are the team to beat in the NL west. Also the Dodgers still have Pierre (why isn’t he traded to a AL team were he could DH and lead off?…he can still hit, it’s not that long ago he lead the NL in hits).
Especially the Dodgers are scary when it comes to payroll. They are paying Andru Jones 22 million to NOT play for them. That is just not fair.
And how much is Jason Schmidt making?
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
by Redhawk on Jan 17, 2009 9:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Because DH's
in the American league aren’t paid to lead off…
by wolf213 on Jan 17, 2009 10:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason
that Pierre led the NL in hits is because old-skool managers usually put him at leadoff, because of his speed — meaning even if his BA/OBP are low, he’ll still get a ton of ABs. To wit:
In 2006, despite batting only .292, Pierre led the NL with 204 hits, winning his second hit title, and in at-bats (699), games played (162) […]However, he also led the major leagues in outs made (532), the second-highest out total for a player since 1982.
(From Wikipedia, the Arbiter Of All Knowledge)
Pierre led the league in hits mostly BECAUSE he also led the league in at-bats. (Which was due in no small part because he also led in games played)
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Jan 17, 2009 9:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, like I said above,
The only reason that the Giants would scare me is because it means all the rest of the teams in the division were really asleep at the wheel and effed up pretty badly. The Dodgers should be respectable with Manny, but there’s not enough pitching left to put them over the top as clear cut favorites.
by Rox Girl on Jan 17, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Criticism
I think the lines separating your points start to distract from the article.
It’s nice to see Ubaldo doing well. The number of ground balls is very encouraging especially since he pitches at Coors and our outfield defense doesn’t look amazing. I just hope he doesn’t wear himself out pitching 6 innings now and then at the end of the season he is hurting because he has pitched for 10 straight months.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
JFK
by jrockies on Jan 17, 2009 10:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Noted.
I was trying to figure out a way to separate the links, but if you prefer them to be in one long-flowing narrative, I can do that for Thursday when I do this again. Thanks for your input!
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Separated by paragraphs
is simple and not overdoing it in my opinion.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
JFK
by jrockies on Jan 17, 2009 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
A vote for separation
I liked the way you did it. It allowed me to click on the link, then come back and easily find where I was. Also, you moved to each topic well which isn’t easy to do.
Goodjob!
IMO… you have taken the early lead in this little contest.
by roxhead on Jan 17, 2009 11:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the kind words!
So…RG/Russ and other Rowbots, do you prefer it separated or in straight paragraph form?
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 1:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't bother me
and nice job on it. But one thing: let’s please spell the names of our own players right. Which in this case would mean Iannetta, not Ianetta.
Blast and botheration.
by Silverblood on Jan 17, 2009 3:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
So sorry about that! I pride myself on spelling well, but that must have slipped my mental detectors.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jan 17, 2009 4:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it matters...
I suppose if I was reading with a PDA or cell phone, I’d prefer it without the separation, but here I don’t really see how it detracts.
by Rox Girl on Jan 17, 2009 4:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a big deal really
I think just a space does the job, and I’d go with that personally. But it’s not as if it’s a dizzying tactic.
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 17, 2009 4:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I do it both ways.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jan 17, 2009 8:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see the "harmlessness" of WBC.
I’d rather see our players in Tucson working out with those who they will spend the next 6 months playing with. Pitchers, catchers, fielders, hitters, the whole lot. Working on cutoffs, hit and runs, bunts, double steals, etc, etc with those they will have to do it with during the season. Pitchers and catchers need to know each other’s habits. Outfielders need to know where the cutoff men will be. Cutoff men need to know how far to go out for the outfielder.
Playing with a watered down version of a national all star team doesn’t get that type of training, IMO.
by pedalpusher on Jan 17, 2009 7:42 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
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