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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

I write a blog about the A's, and this is specifically about Matt Holliday, but I think you'll find in interesting and applicable to all Rockies hitters.

about 3 years ago Tiny jfletcher 12 comments 1 recs  | 

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Interesting

Good post. It speaks to a belief I’ve had for a while that the adjustment between Coors and other ballparks makes it especially difficult to hit on the road as a Rockie.

by onholliday on Jan 25, 2009 10:40 AM MST reply actions  

Sea Level Effect

I think people have understood the effect of breaking/curve pitches at and away from Coors for awhile (obviously, since the Coors Effect is half home/half road). However, I don’t recall anyone (Denver Post, ESPN, etc.) ever looking at it from the angle that hitters will get better after 2+ games on the road. It is nice to know that, if the Holliday Curve applies to other talented Rockies hitters (and in the comments section, it appears the Helton 2000 numbers follow the trend), a player’s pure talent doesn’t have to be reevaluated because he plays at Coors.

If Holliday posts good numbers in ‘09, slightly below his average 07/08 stats, it will certainly help validate this. Since the Rockies have never had a player leave in his prime, it would be difficult to look at other former Rockies and draw this conclusion. One example may be Gallaraga going to Atlanta and crushing balls in 1998 and 2000. I don’t think Bichette, Walker and Castilla count because of their age upon departure.

A couple of conclusions from this post from a Rockies perspective, if the theory holds true: 1) The Rockies should move their practice facility out of Denver because on 3-6 game road trips, this is not so good for the club. 2) This could help Helton’s candidacy for the Hall of Fame quite a bit. Sure, it’s not good that the Rockies can’t always get it going on short road trips, but this is at least an explanation for why it happens rather than a condemnation of Helton’s numbers as Coors inflated.

by deacs on Jan 25, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

Numbers don't work as well for Helton

Gms 1-2: .289 BA/.405 SLG
3+: .296/.509
4+: .296/.521
5+: .284/.498
6+: .288/.498
7+: .270/.462
8+: .276/.455

Maybe Todd Helton just got more homesick than Holliday toward the end of a long trip.

by jfletcher on Jan 25, 2009 1:10 PM MST reply actions  

On second thought, more work should be put into this

Otherwise, it’s just an analysis of Matt Holliday, not the Rockies.

by onholliday on Jan 25, 2009 5:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I have long believed this to be the case

but never actually put forth any work to back it up

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 25, 2009 3:17 PM MST reply actions  

Good work

I too suspected something like this was possible. onholliday is right though in that it’s just 1 or 2 people. Also, Helton’s 2000 season is one of the poorer seasons to use. He batted .372 – there shouldn’t be too much variation in his numbers just because of the ceiling effect.

by Resolution on Jan 25, 2009 7:25 PM MST reply actions  

Often

historically good numbers often have some of the greatest variation within them, like Chipper’s 72 point difference this year.

The point with 2000 is that is a season often cited as a prime example of Coors hitting, although as the surface numbers suggest, that is not true. But the point isn’t the surface numbers at all, it’s what lies beneath them. And beneath it is that Helton’s average was worst on the first day of the trip, and incrementally better days 2 and 3. His day 4 isn’t so bad either. Day 5 drops off. It’s no firm trend, but it’s some evidence that Fletcher’s theory may work. People suspect the .372 BA is inflated by Coors and therefore Helton is not as good of a hitter as people think, but nobody suggests that Coors, not a lack of talent, deflated his road numbers. The idea of the 1-2 day adjustment period says that there’s just as good evidence that Helton’s 2000 numbers may have been even better if there wasn’t such an initial adjustment period on road trips.

It’s sort of the same mistake people make about using HGH: Did HGH make Bonds a great hitter? No, it didn’t ‘t help him make contact. But can it helped his body recover quicker and get back in the lineup to hit more. This theory refutes the generalization that Coors make you a better hitter. It can’t help you make contact, but the air can help you hit it further.

by deacs on Jan 25, 2009 8:39 PM MST up reply actions  

I think the overlooked portion of this study...

Is how the poor hitting on the road affects the morale of the team. While some hitters such as Holliday can maintain a good average after poor performances on the road, other players like a Barmes, Smith may not bounce back as quickly.

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 25, 2009 9:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Which Smith?

You’ve seen Seth’s road stats, right? I don’t think lack of confidence from poor road performances was his trouble at home this season.

by Rox Girl on Jan 25, 2009 9:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Uh-oh, RG's callin' me out...

My point was that it is harder for less established players to turn around a run of poor hitting than an all-star that has experienced continual success. Numbers-wise Seth Smith may not be the best choice, because even in his last minor league stint he hit better on the road than at home .329/.314. However, just like the stock market, past minor league performance is not indicative of future MLB results. Younger players are more likely to get down on themselves and dig a deeper hole than an MVP caliber player. There has to be some kind of explanation for the Rockies poor road hitting, and I think that the road failures have lowered the teams hitting psyche before they’ve even swung the bat.

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 26, 2009 11:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Naw, it's Greg

He can’t get the ball out of the infield.

Seriously though, with guys like Smith who have very limited time in the majors, it’s hard to project what they’re gonna do, or even analyze what they’ve done with any real confidence.

Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum

by Andrew Martin on Jan 27, 2009 1:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with most of the thoughts here...

I promoted this to the front page because I think this is something that needs to be more closely scrutinized. In theory, the Coors effect makes some intuitive sense, but I don’t know how possible it would be to get a sufficient sample size to really show that there’s more to it than randomness.

by Rox Girl on Jan 25, 2009 7:59 PM MST reply actions  

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