So, the Colorado Rockies are going to have a "winner" on their pitching staff?

by Russ on Jan 6, 2009 9:19 AM MST in Thoughts From Up High Comment 30 comments

Troy Renck makes another one of those statements that really means nothing, this time in regard to Jason Marquis' acquisition:

He’s a winner, having gone to the playoffs every season of his career.

Now, let's make this clear. From the year Jason Marquis started his career (2000 with the Braves) to this past season (2008 with the Cubs), the team he has been on has made the playoffs. But I'm not sure how that makes him a winner. You can say he is a winner because his career record stands at 79-70, but because he's made the playoffs every season?

And if he was such a winner, I'd expect him to, you know, pitch in the playoffs. As a rookie in 2000, he didn't make it. I won't fault him for that, pitching in only 15 games that season. He pitched two innings of relief over two games during the 2001 NLCS. He was left off the Braves' roster for the next two postseasons before moving to St. Louis. He saw action in the 2004 and 2005 postseasons for the Cardinals, and he even made the 2006 postseason roster for the NLDS, somehow, but did not pitch. But he didn't make the NLCS and WS rosters (let's remember that 2006 was really bad for Marquis). Moving to the Cubs in 2007, Lou Piniella went with a three-man rotation in the playoffs, leaving Marquis out of the rotation. And lest we forget, Marquis pitched the ninth inning of the first game in the 2008 NLDS against the Dodgers.

So, let's be clear. Jason Marquis is a winner in the sense that he has a winning record. But he is not a winner because he went to the playoffs every season. It's simply not true. Even if he did go to the postseason every season, there's a reason why over the last few seasons his managers didn't want to use him.

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All of this is true.., but,

I still really like this deal for the Rockies. I just gave a too long response to a post at Bluebird Banter defending Marquis. I think Jason gets consistently underrated because the Cubs gave him too much money for the type of pitcher he is. He’s still more valuable than other choices the Rockies realistically have. I compare getting Marquis for one year to signing Jon Garland for a three year deal with a Coors Field hazzard premium. We get the better pitcher for less time commitment and less dollars. We don’t get tied into a long term problem in filling up some needed insurance.

by Rox Girl on Jan 6, 2009 10:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Those crazy canadians...

Except for the Sellers reference at which point you totally lost me, but was sort of a requirement since you were speaking to Canadiens. The point you made was clear and concise, a pitcher with the ability to improve his wins total by bumping the runs scored in the game above his ERA is a welcome addition in Colorado. Like you said it’s not like FA’s are beating down the humidor to pitch at Coors field and instead of throwing a bunch of money at a grab bag of scrapheap pitchers, at least this year O’Dowd is betting on a proven commodity.

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, the Peter Sellars reference was probably over everybody's heads

Unless you’re into the contemporary opera scene, which I happen to be. There are two different people, one’s a famous comedic actor with the name of Peter Sellers from the sixties and seventies who is dead, and one’s a stage and opera director who’s very much alive the name Peter Sellars. It’s common for both to have their names misspelled and confused with each other.

by Rox Girl on Jan 6, 2009 12:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to be confused with

Redskins Pro Bowl fullback Mike Sellers.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

by DbacksSkins on Jan 8, 2009 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Common perception

I agree. People give too much credit for players who happen to play in the postseason frequently. Robert Horry in the NBA makes some sense, since one player makes a bigger difference in basketball. But let’s be honest – Marquis is frickin lucky to be in the postseason every season. A 4.55 career ERA isn’t amazing. I think that’s a case of home reporting, trying to spin the story as positive as possible to deflect the hateful comments from the casual fans he’s likely inundated with daily.

by Poseidon's Fist on Jan 6, 2009 11:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to make it known

that I consider myself a winner and I’ve never been to the playoffs (except during pee-wee soccer ten years ago).

by Resolution on Jan 6, 2009 11:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe Renck's assertion....

that Marquis’ hitting ability will allow him to pitch further into games. It seems to me that Clint Hurdle thinks of pitchers as weak hitters regardless of ability. Even his best hitting pitchers will sacrifice almost automatically, because that’s what the pitcher’s spot does, in his opinion.

It does seem that sometimes he allows pitchers to hit in the fitfth or sixth inning only to take them out after one or two hitters in the next inning, but that seems to be another strange Clint quirk that has little to do with the hitting skill of the pitcher.

by jlikesrockies on Jan 6, 2009 12:52 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Like...

allowing Mark Redman to inexplicably hit in the bottom of the 5th inning in a close game, and then replacing him in the top of the 6th with a pitcher. Or giving Aaron Cook 5 different PH appearances. I’m not sure that Clint Hurdle has ever really understood what his bench players are supposed to be used for, or for that matter what his best lineup is.

by Hizilla on Jan 6, 2009 2:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If memory serves me...

Cookie did okay in those PH appearances. Not that a utility player wouldn’t be better suited for the job…but I don’t mind that decision, honestly.

by muzia02 on Jan 6, 2009 3:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

In all honesty

I don’t really either – he’s a decent with the bat. I was just trying to point out that Clint Hurdle doesn’t think of “pitchers of weak hitters”. It was the leaving Redman in to bat and not come back out and pitch was what really pissed me off, its like he wasn’t paying attention to what was going on in the game.

by Hizilla on Jan 6, 2009 4:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I get it

Jason Marquis. That’s the one thing we’ve been missing to magically spark our team. It is solely due to Jason Marquis that the teams he has been on have won. Yep, the 2006 Cards couldn’t have done it without his 6+ ERA. But now we have Jason Marquis, ergo we will win CHAMPIONSHIPZ!!!11

/I feel so much better now

//Seriously, Renck, how does that even make any sense?

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 6, 2009 1:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Silverblood

Has suddenly started consuming the same stuff I do. This looks like one of my comments. Bottom line is this guy is a poor mans Rick Rhoden. Good hitting pitcher and below average pitcher. Cubs love us as we are helping them make the Milton Bradley deal work budgetwise.

This is the Rockies dilemma. They are always either on the front end or back end of a salary dump.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Jan 6, 2009 2:32 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Suddenly?

Nah, ask anyone, I’ve been a curmudgeon-in-chief around here for a while now.

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 6, 2009 2:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

Todd Helton was a big loser for the first ten years of his career.

If Renck had amended that with the idea that Marquis might have learned some leadership after being only being on playoff teams, it might be a fair statement. But Marquis seems to be a bit of whiner when he doesn’t get what he wants, so I’m not sure it’d be accurate. Still, since Marquis will likely have no problem sticking at the back end of this rotation, it’s a really good pickup for the Rockies.

by deacs on Jan 6, 2009 4:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Good luck charm?

Why not? Let’s just all hope Jason Marquis keeps his playoff streak alive and we’re in the tall cotton!

by Since1993 on Jan 6, 2009 4:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

If we get to the playoffs this year with Jason "Teh Lucky Charm" Marquis

I, Silverblood, personally to pledge to: ___________

(all suggestions considered)

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 6, 2009 4:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sweet

Marquis already has a nickname. Welcome to the team, Lucky.

by oo_nrb on Jan 6, 2009 5:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Beats the Hell outa

“Gas Can”

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jan 6, 2009 10:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Run on to Coors Field

and kiss Tulo…….

wait….you just want this excuse

Thought Clint Hurdle should be fired before it was cool.

by Redhawk on Jan 6, 2009 10:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Compose a sonnet...

praising the merits of Clint Hurdle, Yorvit Torrealba and Willy Taveras.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jabberwocky on Jan 6, 2009 11:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Ride across the Chunnel...

wearing a t-shirt that states “I hate french food”

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 7, 2009 12:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Dress up as Dinger..

For next year’s Halloween.

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 7, 2009 12:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Go one week without...

Using a sarcastic comment public. This could be the hard one.

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 7, 2009 1:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, winner

If the Rockies make it to the playoffs with Lucky, I, Silverblood, personally pledge to go one week without employing the use of my favorite trope, sarcasm, anywhere upon my posts to this establishment of Rockies-related fandom.

Signed,
Silverblood

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 7, 2009 5:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No disappearing for a week and blaming faulty internet connections.

That’d be just weak. Play it straight now.

You know you want to check out Matt's Korea blog: http://koreamatt.wordpress.com

by MattTheRock on Jan 7, 2009 10:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, my internet actually is still fail here

Seems to follow me wherever I go. But you have my word that if I have a working wireless connection, I shall spend a whole week on PR without making one sarcastic comment.

(This is gonna be tough. But I’ll do it if it means we get to the playoffs).

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 7, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Finally!

We will have converted you into a Pollyanna, Woohoo!!

Comic Book Guy: Oh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that’s a really useful invention!

Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.

by Charlie77 on Jan 7, 2009 10:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Swim the English Channel at the end of the season

But only “winners” can do it.

by 61 on Jan 6, 2009 4:34 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

"Winners"

Just imagine if we had a successful organization and our own players were ‘winners.’

Maybe then we could field some of these ‘winners’ and ‘character guys’ when they were still good enough players that sportswriters and coaches didn’t have to come up with silly labels to apply to them in order to justify thier continued employment.

Don’t get me wrong – I like this trade.

I would just rather they take a chance on actual talent than on washed up players with intangiables. Atleast the first option has some theoretical potential for success.

by MADness on Jan 6, 2009 5:26 PM MST reply actions 0 recs