Purple Row: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Network Message: 50% Off: CBS/SB Nation Fantasy Baseball

Some observations from in close...

I sat in behind home plate in the advance scout section for both games with an old friend.

-Need to acquire a right handed bat that is reliable next year.  Otherwise every team will be stacking lefty garbage against us.

-I think Tracy overblew the whole L/L thing way too much.  My friend and I were amazed how he left some sticks on the bench the whole series.  Basically he let the Phillies lefty situation keep some of his best players out and turned it into an A team vs a B team game.  The Rockies are hard pressed to beat the Phils straight up let alone with players benched.   He did a great job all year but when you get here you dance with the girl you came with.

-The message to Stewart, Hawpe, Smith (to a lesser extent), was I believe in Cargon but you guys stink.  I was especially intrigued by the EY2 PH in the 9th, when you had 50+ HRs on the bench.

-To play a guy like Atkins you are going to ditch and rest your future on the bench with no PA was bizarre as well.  Get him the experience.  Tracy kind of went away from things that got them there in the last 3-4 weeks.  If some guys come back, there may need to be some damage control.

-As I said in an earlier fanpost, I think the DLR injury was huge and could have ended the  season.  In retrospect it was. Phillies had no lefties to contend with. Especially Howard who is lefty horrible. The 3rd game was pivotal and we started Jason Hamel.

-Cargon has the opportunity to be a special player.  He'll need to work on his offspeed pitch approach.  But the dude can hit just about any FB throw at him in any location.

Star-divide

-I not sure if Street has fully recovered from his problem he had in early Sept.  He was simply did not possess the same command, location and slider in the last week or in the playoffs.

-When Ubaldo learns to change speeds and hit spots and become a pitcher rather than a thrower,  he'll dominate.  Cliff Lee gave him a couple of lessons he should chew on in the offseaon.  Economize man and get ahead early.  You cannot throw the ball by people at this level all the time.  Especially down in counts. Lose 4 MPH on the fastball but locate it.  The zinger will come in handy from time totime when he needs it.

-Morales should be traded as he has value and he has progressed nill since 2007.

-Bettancourt is a money pitcher and needs to be resigned.  I think Taylor B is your 7th inning guy next year.

-Clint Barmes is the biggest offensive enigma I have ever seen.

-Tulo needs to relax more in game ending situations.  He was way too jittery in both.

- I think there should be a rule whereby when you move to another city, you have to adopt that team.  Way too many Philly fans I told "have a nice drive to PA" said they are from here.  I think they should all go back.

Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).

1 recs  |  Comment 180 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Nice thoughts.......to those, I'd add.....

Trade Barmes to a team with a GM who overvalues his 23 HRs and 76 RBIs, and get a solid defensive 2nd baseman who could hit .280/.360/.450. Maybe target Kelley Johnson of Atlanta. If we keep Barmes, at most he should be a super-utility guy. BTW, something about EY Jr. I just don’t trust, and I’m not sure we need his speed in the lineup with CarGo and Fowler already in it.

Hawpe should be traded to make room for Smith, who is already twice the player Hawpe has ever been.

You’re spot-on about Morales. He’s not to be trusted and should be used as a trade chip. He still has value as a great young lefty arm, but we’ve seen him now for a couple years and his erratic nature is not easy to change. Fragile psyche too.

We have to find a shut-down lefty. Morales isn’t it, and neither are Beimel or Flores. This has to be one of our top priorities of the offseason, second only to getting some righthanded thump to help us versus lefties.

I’d love to keep Betancourt. This reliever is as mentally tough in tight situations as any who have pitched at 20th and Blake. He’s costly, though, and we’d get two compensation picks if he declines arbitration and becomes a FA. Bucky may not be ready to start next season, so who would replace him?

I feel for both Stewart and Iannetta. Both should have gotten more exposure in the postseason. Can’t complain too much about Torrealba’s results, though.

by GoRoxGo on Oct 13, 2009 9:03 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Some more thoughts...

I know what I don’t trust about EY Jr. He’s extremely undisciplined and unfocused—not just at the plate, but on the basepaths. That can hopefully be fixed with some more time in the Springs.

I agree—Morales is a total head-case. We went through this with Corpas and Fuentes (there really is a good reason I always call him Frankie Fuentes). Not again. It’s time to face the fact that being a lefty won’t save him.

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 13, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s time to face the fact that being a lefty won’t save him.

Okay, but what about his 95mph fastball and breaking stuff that was more highly regarded than Ubaldo’s?
How about his June, where he allowed just 1 run on 3 hits in 12 appearances?
Or the NLDS, where he didn’t allow a hit in any of the four appearances?
Or how about the franchise record for consecutive scoreless innings, in his name?

Sounds like a decent (not fantastic) resume for a 23-year-old.

If you expect pitchers to be totally polished at his stage of his career, your expectations are too high.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 12:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I agree with you and I agree with the "move Morales" crowd

If you expect pitchers to be totally polished at his stage of his career, your expectations are too high.

I don’t expect him to be more polished than he is, especially at his age. The issue is, if we want him to be a starter, he’s going to have to beat out Francis, Chacin, Contreras, Reynolds, and whatever other last chance free agents we get on the cheap. Oh, and Alan Johnson.

If he wants to be in the pen, he’ll have a leg up, being a southpaw, but he’ll still have to compete with Daley, Corpas, Weathers, Belisle, Beimel, and any of the aforementioned starters that don’t make the rotation, not to mention AAA guys and/or free agents.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

bahhhh i need to finish thoughs before hitting "post"

My point is that sure, he’s 23 and has wicked awesome stuff, and he has shown moments of sheer brilliance, but it seems we have guys knocking at the door who may be more ready than Morales, or at least building up to being ready, rather than the roller coaster ride Frankie’s been.

I feel he would be a better fit for a team that isn’t competing, and has a year or two to let him mature and develop where it won’t matter if he sucks for awhile.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

But are those other options realistic?

Chacin seemed farther away than Morales. Francis is coming back off a serious injury and may never be the same even if ready by Opening Day. Reynolds isn’t very good, at least so far, not even 5% of the upside of Morales. Contreras is an interesting call, certainly I would be ok with letting him start the season in the rotation if he’s willing to come back on the cheap, but I’m not sure if that is possible, or that he can hold up over the grind. He may be best suited as the new Fogg, if not Hammel.

As for the pen, only Corpas among that group is close in terms of talent (not sure re Weathers but I doubt he’s ready this year). Belisle should get a look, I’m not a big Beimel fan but I won’t cry if he’s back, but not ahead of Morales. I think Daley is a lock for the pen, but again a dude who’s talent is wanting in comparison.

Maximize talent to maximize chances of winning. Morales has to be in the equation.

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm really just throwing names out

it’s kind of a point of conjecture, I really don’t have SUPER strong feelings on Morales.

If we stick with Morales, Chacin needs to stay in AAA and condition and acclimate. We pulled Morales up too early too fast, out of necessity, obviously, and it seems to have messed him up, along with injury issues. Maybe he’s like Phil Hughes 2.0 or something like that.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely re Chacin

there is absoulutely no reason to rush him. His workload in the bigs last year was fine but its not yet time to put it all on him. 2011 should be the goal.

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's kind of why I want to move Morales

yes, massive upside. But I want the Now. If we could somehow get another LHP in the pen who could get the job done with Beimel being the LOOGY, I seriously consider him our best trade chip.

If the Rockies just sit pat this offseason, we’re fools. Foolish fools. Not necessarily regarding Morales, but this organization needs to continually improve. I have no doubt O’Dowd has some things planned, but I honestly want to see if we can package what goodwill Chris Nelson may have left, Franklin Morales, and then maybe Hawpe or Murton or Spills (no, I don’t equate the 3), and bring somebody in to fill a hole until the farm brings us someone else.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson's value is pennies on the dollar

He will need a year to recover power after then hand injury and has to be protected on the forty man. Trading him is like asking someone else to babysit him, so that may as well be us.

by David OhNo on Oct 14, 2009 11:49 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, pretty much my concern

depends on how well O’Dowd could sell him, I guess.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong

I’m more than fine with moving him if we get value, but I just think he might be more valuable than his return. I agree wholeheartedly that we need to make some aggressive moves, sitting on our hands after ‘07 was an error. I think Uball, Cargon and Tulo are probably the only untouchables on the team (Helton of course but that’s not an issue). Anybody else, let’s chat.

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

check sandy koufax at a similar stage in his career

or randy johnson

they panned out ok.

and yes, those are valid comparisons – the big unit threw a couple mph faster, but at the age of 23 he could barely throw the ball to the catcher, let alone over the plate.

if you’re going to move morales, you better get flippin’ evan langoria or his second base equivalent.

watch this space for a soon to be created clever remark....

by RockyMtnCat on Oct 14, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

mmmm Longoria

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make a good point.

I constantly—I mean CONSTANTLY—forget that he’s that young. I swear I keep thinking he’s like 5 years older. Every time I remember the truth, it makes more sense.

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 14, 2009 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your first few points

Speak to the major theme of the last few weeks and I think the reason we’re not playing any more baseball – Jim Tracy panicked, plain and simple. He went WAY too far in the direction of ‘play the platoon advantage at any cost’ and it dinged the lineup. Instead of trusting his best players, which seemed to work pretty well when he took over, he tried to overmanage, and as a result, outsmarted himself. Some managers simply aren’t good enough tacticians to handle the postseason, and Tracy proved beyond any doubt that he’s one of them.

Could not possibly disagree more on Morales. No way in hell you give up on him yet. If he hadn’t done the job he did in September while Street was out, are we even in the playoffs? There are a lot of mental things to work through with him, and the chance does still exist that he never quite figures them out, but I’d still bet on his arm and his stuff any day.

I still believe in Huston Street and I think a bullpen built with him, Buchholz, Betancourt and Morales at the back end aided by Daley/lefty du jour/long reliever du jour could be the NL’s best.

Righty power is a glaring need – hopefully Iannetta can bounce back and be that kind of hitter next season, but we really could use a guy who just brutalizes lefties and can play the corners. Easier said than done.

We’ve got a lot of trade chips and a very good opportunity to supplement an exciting young core with those chips. That’s going to make this winter very exciting.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Oct 13, 2009 9:16 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Morales just needs his role reduced

I think that’s doable when Buchholz gets back, which would give Tracy two sure-fire right handers to play around platoon matchups. Morales’ splits against lefties came in at .205/.311/.282 while against righties he was a weaker .265/.366/.372, which is just too much potential traffic. Until the command improves, he’s best used trying to get tough lefties out in the late innings, and maybe only face righties that come in at the bottom of the order. No need to make a rush decision on him now, as there’s no shame in having a LOOGY that reaches 97 MPH. Sometimes it just takes a few years for the Jeremy Affeldt’s of the world to blossom.

by David OhNo on Oct 13, 2009 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...basically he'd take over Joe Beimel's role, then?

Actually…an intriguing thought.

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 13, 2009 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just one response PHLP

I moved to San Diego many years ago and have stayed true to my hometown teams. Thankfully, your rule doesn’t exist. I shouldn’t have to start rooting for the Padres or God forbid, the Chargers!, just because I moved to a different city. Would you rather the Rockies lose fan support nationwide?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 13, 2009 9:32 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It was a joke

I pointed it more at the eastern scum of Philly, NY, Chicago.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know :)

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 13, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loyalty is an admirable trait.

I don’t really have a leg to stand on, though. I found I had moved from the team of my childhood (the Mets) to the Rockies without even thinking about it after I moved to Colorado. I think that makes me a bad fan or something…

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 13, 2009 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe that just means that Colorado is a team

that for some reason breeds loyalty?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 14, 2009 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like that theory. :)

To think it started because we really wanted to watch baseball, and living in Colorado, the Rockies were it. Only (shortly) after that did we discover that they were likable, easy to root for and give our loyalty to. :)

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 14, 2009 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant to add

that Yorvit played himself into a nice contract somewhere for next year.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 10:43 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree 100% on the need for a better RH bat

Phillies were well-balanced between left, right & switch hitters. They have more lefty batters, but Utley & Ibanez have better averages off lefties than righties so there’s not a big advantage other than vs. Howard for a lefy facing them. Rockies are way too lefty-heavy and their lefties do not have good splits against LH pitchers. Either Hawpe or Smith needs to be traded. They’re redundant — LH hitters who don’t do that well off LH pitchers. Given Hawpe’s defensive shortcomings & higher cost, he’s the one to trade.

by 6161Maris on Oct 13, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great observations

Street, is a good one, as he hasn’t looked the same since his injury. I think he was rushed back, and not 100%.

Ubaldo, got tired, and while he still threw it 98mph, it was flatter, and not located as well in the later innings.

Stewart on the bench, and even lifted for a PH in the 9th WAS very interesting.

Your biggest point of all: The biggest need this team has is RH impact bat. is dead on. I would assume a Left Fielder or a 3rd baseman. (2nd or catcher would be options, but there are none out there at either position, and catcher, we might have 2 on the team already better than anything out there, unless Benjie Molina has anything left in the tank)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 11:09 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Ubaldo needs to learn to pitch

and stop throwing. His funky/herky/jerky mechanics are part of his location issues as they breed an inconsistent release point. I have coached kids for many years and my philosophy is give me a 4-5 mph slower pitch that is located any day. Give me a mental clock and a consistent release point and it will equal success.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

more on the consistent release point over being a a pitcher (which is needed too). He’s really used his off speed stuff to keep guys off balanced, this year. But he’s been inconsistent in hitting the strike zone. He tends to over throw the fastball at times.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ubaldo just had arguably the best season EVER.....

for a Rockies starting pitcher, broke out in a huge way, and yet we want to tinker with his style that got him to this level of success? No thanks, he’s making plenty of progress and will dominate the league for years to come if you leave him alone (and he stays healthy).

His control, BTW, got much better this year than last, and improved last year from the year before, etc.

by GoRoxGo on Oct 13, 2009 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

it does seem

with all of U’s funkiness it takes him about 35-40 pitches to find his release point. In the meantime, he often puts the team into a first inning hole.

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

they didn't PH for him

it was a screwup by the people running the jumbotron during the doubleswitch, he was on deck after Tulo.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that threw us for a loop

he was in the field in the top of the ninth but nowhere to be found on the lineup. I was worried they would bat out of order until I realized how they worked it.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

aww

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh.

I had no idea.

by holly96 on Oct 13, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting another RH bat is going to be tricky

I do want to make a bigger post about this in the offseason, but it’s pretty much going to have to be the Iannetta/Torrealba combo playing for a full season like they did the last two months, plus somehow upgrading our corner bench bats in a Hawpe trade. If the team really wants to get better without paying more, Atkins and Spilly need to be dismissed for some legit hitting ability. I think the team was hoping that Murton would be that guy, but he’s pretty much AAAA it seems.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should add that I don't want us doing what the Cubs did,

and sort of go overboard in our attempt to balance the lineup where we completely screw up the team’s chemistry.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what the Cubs

always do. Given the choice of Ibanez or Bradley again, what do you think they would do?

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abreu?

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

this

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know who would be a good fit for a RH hitter

Matt Holliday.

just saying. Too bad he’s going to cost too much.

(I’m not so sold on Smith as an everyday starter. He looks to me like Spilly, which is a 4th OF that gets exposed when played regularly)

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I think he is good for 300-400 ABs. He was playing everyday in July-August and wore down in Sept. Part of it is a conditioning thing and part is his body frame.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if I buy this wear down in September bit, actually

He still hit .284 with nine doubles and four homers in September. I just think Tracy stopped using him as much when Fowler got healthy instead of dissing the veteran who wasn’t hitting as he should have been in right field.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Realism time re Hawpe?

We all act like trading Hawpe is the easy and smart choice, but will trading him actually be that easy? I can see him flourishing on a AL team where he can platoon/DH and occasionally play RF/1B, but we ain’t gonna get much for him. I mean, if nobody wanted Bobby Abreu last year I doubt they will be lining up to give up legit prospects for Hawpe and his contract. Plus, plenty of teams are trying to dump OFs (Bradley, Burrell come to mind) plus guys like Holliday and Bay on the FA market, I just don’t see much of a return unless we take back someone else’s bad contract…now it would be nice to pull another Marquis type deal…

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

the last half of the year was spent bitching about him to the pawn shop proprietor prior to trying to unload him. The question is how much did he/Rockies drive down his market value. Do you have the Garry Templeton scenario circa 1981?

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

seems like

rather than trying to showcase Hawpe for future buyers in the playoffs they decided to hide him away to try and keep up his market value. I doubt this maneuver worked – think anyone who acquires Hawpe knows exactly what they’re getting.

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

His contract isn't that bad.

$7.5 million for one year (the option is voided if he’s traded) is going to be more palatable to a lot of teams than going into free agency, where the LH pickings are very slim or older than dirt. I guess if you’re looking for a Holliday type of return from the trade, than forget it, but that’s not what I’ve been saying. I’m just looking for a young RH bench bat that can play the OF or third base. These were throw-ins in most trades last season, I really don’t know how hard it will be for the Rockies to find one. Even if we’re looking for just low level prospects, the money saved on Hawpe’s salary could go after a Nady type. As long as Rockies fans know not to have pie in the sky hopes, I don’t think it would be that difficult to move him.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's just it - "palatable" but not strong

Nobody expects a Holliday type return, but I’m talking about any kind of return. I’m sure he could be moved, but I don’t see us getting back anything better than Spilborghs/Murton (and I doubt that good) unless the return comes with a big price tag too or is a busted prospect. 7.5 may not sound like much, but recall last year Abreu and O-Dog got less than that and I doubt anyone thinks Hawpe is better now than those guys last year.

I don’t know, I just see this as a salary dump type move. Which is fine and probably needs to happen, but is not likely to be tied to bringing back anything that will help us.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're talking about 'ALL-STAR' Brad Hawpe

And teams ALWAYS want lefty power. Unless you’re the Rockies and currently swimming in it.

I have no doubt we’d find a taker. Temper your expectations as you see fit but I think a couple of B prospects would be a realistic haul.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Oct 13, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK that's fine

I don’t mean to say we’ll be getting a bucket of dead fish in return, but when you say B-prospects I see guys that would land in the teens at best on the PURPs list, and those type of guys are unlikely to be more productive than Spils/Murton, which is essentially salary dump land.

if you think we can get some real guys back, well I sincerely hope you are right and I’m all for it. But my expectations are very tempered. The “all star”moniker certainly does help a ton, but the “benched in the playoffs” bit takes some of the shine off, don’t you think?

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawpe still represents an upgrade for quite a few teams.

I mean, at the worst I think we could swap him with another bad contract that’s a better fit for the team, say Pat Burrell as a for instance if we feel 2009 was some kind of aberration.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you seriously touting Burrell (not accusatory, inquisitive)?

He’s another SABR darling, but has plodding feet in terms of range. He’s like an Atkins in the OF, in terms of fielding – slow, but what he gets to, he makes good plays on. He’ll drive a lot of people nuts here, and it’ll put another OF on the bench who is defensively better.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you reading and learning?

First of all, it was a for instance, and an “at worst” for instance at that. Saying I’m touting him seems a pretty far stretch, unless you normally tout your worst case scenarios. You want a different salary swap name to put in as the right handed backup to Seth Smith, put it in there. Oh yeah, that was the other thing, this discussion is about a backup/platoon mate to Smith. Burrell would get about 30% of the starts, which compared to the 85% or so that Hawpe’s getting and be sort of a right handed version of what Jason Giambi is right now but with slightly more defensive utility. Since we’re on the hook for Hawpe’s salary anyway, if we can’t deal him for something we actually want, deal him for something that helps us a little more at the same price.

by Rox Girl on Oct 15, 2009 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm just intrigued by the possibility of Burrell

because he’d be absolutely hilarious to watch in Coors.

I know it was your worst case, but when a specific name comes up in general, it suggests a radar blip. It was more the question of “are you targeting him” rather than “WHAT R U CRZY”

but yeah, “touting” was a poor choice of words.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think watching Burrell

try to field at Coors as a Rockie would be hilarious at all.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

atrocious is a more appropriate word

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he brought the stick he used with Philly

I’d be willing to laugh at the LF circus.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Oct 18, 2009 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

One good thing I just noted

14 of his bombs were on the road. That’s good for us now (but mystifying overall).

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree the more I think about it

if the Rockies get anything of quality in return, it’s cause they pick up part of Hawpe’s salary, OR the other GM screws up.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think as with almost all moves, you make phone calls and see what happens

If there’s no market, you can keep him and wait to see if the market gets better in ST (injuries) or for pre—deadline deals.

I guess part of this depends on what O’Dowd’s other plans are, and his budget. Right now, it doesn’t seem like they need to move his salary, though clearing that would surely help.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawpe's salary would more than pay Betancourt's option

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 13, 2009 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but are you saying they wouldn't have the money otherwise?

Or that that’s the best use of $5.4M if money is that scarce? Betancourt’s innings come to 61 1/3 if you rro-rate to 162 games.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they don't make other moves, they may or may not have the money

Cook’s contract gives him like a $2m raise this year. If we keep Street, he’ll get a $2-3m raise. Ballpark revenue was actually down because, even though attendance was marginally higher, it was filled with more bargain-priced tickets.

If we keep Torrealba, that’s $4m.

Basically, I almost feel we need to see Atkins and Hawpe leave in order to give us the flexibility to keep Betancourt and try to add a RH bat.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 13, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

$5.4M is a lot for 61 innings.

combined with Street, it will be something like $13M for 120-125 innings. If money is that tight, then O’Dowd could be up to a lot of tinkering, including things like declining the option and trying to get him as a FA, or looking elsewhere.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

but consider the leverage of the innings in question.

not all innings are created equal.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

it’s still a lot of money for not a lot of innings. Review the context of the thread.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

no need to get snippy

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

"the other GM screws up"

We’re overthinking this and making it too difficult. Just dial up Minaya or the Cubs, and we’ll get it done.

Hell, the Orioles would probably give us Brian Roberts, lol. Okay, maybe not.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 13, 2009 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

who do we have that never walks

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Cargo

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 13, 2009 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iunno

.069 IsoD isn’t awful

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small correction: Hudson made more

He made about $7.99M this season. The much-publicized $4.62 base was minus the playing time incentives.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The other concern is his Home/Road

averages which were like 100+ point better at Coors vs road.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

that was my main concern with Smith, I even compared him to Bichette not long ago here and it seems warranted. But really, as a Rox fan you can’t get too caught up in H/R splits or you’ll go nuts.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smith is a better fielder than Bichette

I believe I used the term he "bichette’d’ a ball in left field far more often with Holliday out there than Smith (of course, I had far more opportunity with Holliday but still).

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was regarding Smith

but was placed in the Hawpe area.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

so were Matt Holliday's...

Smith does hit RHP’s decently on the road. Again, if we just get a legit RH bat to play behind him, I think we’re fine.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine, I think he's got more going for him at the plate than Spilly,

but even if he’s not an everyday guy, he’s at least a good start to a left/right platoon. I think this year we saw that Spilborghs isn’t really a good finish to that. The thing is that there are several FA players who could be had for cheap and when added to Smith would make a very productive outfielder and give us a better right handed threat in the lineup than Spilborghs. Nady, Winn, and Tatis come immediately to mind.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'll pass on the Winn-Tatis pu-pu platter

But Xavier Nady… I think you might be on to something with that suggestion. I could get on board with Nady as a platoon partner for Smith, although I don’t believe he’d come terribly cheap (probably in the 5-6 million per year range) and I do believe there’s a team out there who might see him as a starter.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Oct 13, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Winn was a terrible suggestion now that I look at it.

He’s more a left handed bat than a switch hitter anymore. I think you might be underestimating Tatis, though. I’d like Nady more than any of them too, but the issue is finding a guy who you can get for bench money because the Monforts aren’t going to go for a starter. The best solution should be to target a younger player in a Hawpe trade, but I don’t know where to start looking for that.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

See my thoughts above

can we get anyone for Hawpe?

Can we go old-school DOD and find the next Payton/Hammonds failed prospect to give a rehab shot? Or did that only work pre-humidor?

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think your thoughts on Hawpe

is really “thoughts on the off season market”. this economic downturn has hurt baseball. Hell the Jay’s fired sales people this off season.

I think everyone will be wanting to get younger and cheaper. Not older and more expensive (ala Hawpe, or Atkins). Now Smith…he’s still youngish and cheap.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is your suggestion

trading Smith? Its certainly worth exploring but I’d be surprised if we got back equal or greater value.

As for economy, I think its a major concern for these guys. Atkins is going to be taking a 90% pay cut next year wherever he plays, and Hawpe’s deal, seemingly reasonable 2 years ago, is going to be poisonous in trade.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah sorta

I agree with Rox Girl that Smith would be a fine LH part of a L/R platoon. But IF the Righty side is going to be full time/big time money, than, that makes Smith both an extra piece and maybe the most valuable piece the Rockies would have to trade.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Logan Morrison

Fla Marlins. Had three great minor league years and played great last year in the AFL. This year slumped. I have met his dad and this kid is a pure hitter with a real good work ethic.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Marlins would be willing, I'd be all in for that,

but I think it will be impossible to get him until he hits his arbitration years the way the Marlins value players they can pay the minimum to and lots of people still think he can be a stud (they’re not as high on him as they are on Stanton, though).

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Coghlan

he’d be an easy acquisition, right?

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I;m sure they'd swap him for CarGo

After that, he’s probably untouchable.

Last time the Marlins traded one of it’s A grade prospects for more expensive talent was… give me a sec… nope, I’m stumped.

by David OhNo on Oct 13, 2009 6:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's another thought

And he’d come cheap because, really, he hasn’t hit in three years, and there’s no way Washington picks up his $10 million option – but I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a flyer on Austin Kearns and seeing if he can’t rediscover all that power he used to have.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Oct 13, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like this kind of move because it wastes a roster spot if he doesn't.

I mean, maybe as a minor league invite with a more certain plan B in mind, but Kearns has looked like a fluke/possible PED case for awhile now.

by Rox Girl on Oct 13, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I had intended

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Oct 13, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baldelli?

Or is he useful at all anymore

by moomacher on Oct 13, 2009 5:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nady

eh, I don’t know. He had a career year in 2008 with the Pirates/Yanks but 7 fairly pedestrian years before that. And he’s coming off a fairly significant injury at age 31. Having said that, he does hit lefties well and he’d probably hit a lot of doubles into the gaps at CF (me likey!) He’s probably too expensive for our liking though.

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What ever happened to the Matt Murton experiment

he was gonna be the LHP platoon buddy.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday

think that train has left the station and it ain’t coming back. Particularly with his best bud Atkins waiting at the same station with his bags packed headed to ?

Oh well, a person can dream I suppose.

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be pretty surprised if Holliday leaves St. Louis

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 13, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

I assume he’s not afraid of testing the FA market, and there are several big market teams looking for corner OF’s and there aren’t many marquee FA’s available. I could see St L ponying up but I could also seem him leaving.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, as much as the Yanks spend on FAs...

…they don’t have a history of spending that money on FA corner outfielders. I guess I could see possibly LA (if they don’t pick up Manny’s option). But I get the sense he learned in Oakland that the grass isn’t always greener, and St. Louis took to him hard and quickly. He knows he can be a long time fan fave there, and still get paid.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 13, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not just the Yanks

and Matsui got a pretty healthy deal for the time. If they were willing to go to $180M for a 1st baseman, I don’t see why it’s ridiculous that they could be interested in a corner OF.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be pretty shocked

if the Mets don’t make him a ridiculous offer. They have some payroll coming off, and their owners have publicly stated that they’ll do what it takes to be competitive next year. Granted – they should spend their money on pitching, but Omar has never really done the “smart” thing.

by Hizilla on Oct 13, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

except he’s not latin.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither is

Jeff Franceour. What is your point?

by Hizilla on Oct 13, 2009 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

that omar minaya loves latin players

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am really intrigued by the idea

of the Rockies re-making their last offer to Holliday. He passed on the home town discount last time, but now…

Happiness is October baseball

by Rawktober on Oct 14, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

re-relegating Smith to 4th OF?

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smith would immediately become

a very valuable trade piece. Or an incredibly valuable 4th OF, or Dex insurance. In either case, I’d be on board with Holliday coming home, so long as he realizes he ain’t the #5 round here no’ mo’.

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

how completely awkward would the jersey number situation be?

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

However, I suspect there is zero chance Boras lets him sign such a deal, especially given his relative failure re ManRam’s contract situation offseason.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 14, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

We just need to find

the next Jayson Werth, who was an interesting but not particularly exciting guy on the Dodgers a few years ago, a few injuries and some facial hair and now he’s a monster. C’mon DOD, you’ve been on fire lately, go get another.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually the biggest off season move the Rockies have

is with O’Dud, and Tracy. That’s two guys that will be in demand. Will the Monforts pony up the money for team management?

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sheesh, they already lucked out with CarGo

everyone knew he had the ability but to actually put it together isn’t as easy as he made it look.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lucked out?

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure why Murton is seen as preferable to Spilly

Similar hitters, but Spilly’s the more capable defender.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think bringing Spilly back is a good move

realistically he’s as good of a bench OF that you are going to find (unless you want one of those Fox-type HR or bust guys or someone with crazy speed), but the problem is cash. If we can lock him down for around 1M per for a few years, I say do it for sure. But if he wants to get paid (and who can blame him if someone else will) then we should allocate resources elsewhere.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's right

now that the Rockies have him, all the AB’s in his past no longer count.

I’m not saying he can’t play MLB ball, but I don’t see why he provides something Spilly can’t. Unless that something is making Cook feel better.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 13, 2009 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which ABs?

The 455 in 2006 or the 235 in 2007? I’m not saying they directly translate, but he hits lefties better as a career, and we’re talking about him in context of the other side of a platoon. That said, Spilly is a Boras client – which really doesn’t mean that much to be honest – and Murton will be cheaper for at least a season.

I could really go either way on it and not care too much, but Murton wasn’t really given much of a shot.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

his 1000 AB's in MLB, 1000 AB's in AAA

It’s not as if he’s some unknown quantity.

Now that there’s both Dex and CarGo to cover center, it seems pretty safe to say Murton can cover Spilly’s job as a RH 4th OF. I don’t see why we expect him to do more than Spilly, who filled that role very well.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 14, 2009 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we're under the impression that Spilborghs will get more expensive sooner than later

and that Murton is the cheaper option, even though their MLB service times are very similar.

Plus I like Murton’s AB Music.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your biggest point of all: The biggest need this team has is RH impact bat.

We would be halfway there if CDI08 returned

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 13, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree on Tracy

over-tinkering, but the fact is that we lost that game (and game 3) on the mound, we put enough runs on the board to win both of those games (and some of the “tinkering”, Yorvit and Atkins, were responsible for the runs).

I agree with you on the DLR loss, brutal. He’s always playing with fire but I trust him a lot more than Hammel.

As for Morales, he is a real tricky situation. I mean, you don’t find that talent anywhere, his stuff is sick. Do we assume that he can never get his head/control on and let him go on to become someone else’s DLR though? I say we keep him and we give him another shot in the rotation. In my opinion, he is our best and most realistic option to replace Marquis next year, that also gives us the best chance of winning. Let’s face it, when push comes to shove, you need to maximize talent and letting him go under almost any circumstances is not maximizing talent.

As for righty power bat, the only guy that seems realistic at this point is CDI, unless there’s a 3b out there that can be had in a deal. I doubt we add any OFs. I really wonder what CDI’s issues are, however, I am convinced there is something going on behind the scenes and hopefully it can be resolved because he’s right there for us.

Finally, re Stewart, next year is his show. Give him the fulltime, no nonsense job, and he either keeps it or we go back to the drawing board.

by Teekalong on Oct 13, 2009 11:29 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Also agree about Tracy's over tinkering

Two main areas really stick out for me:

1) as PHLP noted, the emphasis on the L/L played right into the Phils hands. Manuel left in his regular lineup from the season regardless of who we had pitching. He made a few defensive adjustments here and there but otherwise left it well alone. I think after the last few weeks of the season when Tracy had so many toys to play with, he started going micromanaging crazy and just couldn’t stop.

2) Tracy has to learn how to play the old ‘slow the game down’ routine in the playoffs. Sure, it sucks and it makes games 4-6 hours long but if you look at the four teams left in the playoffs each manager plays the old-school way with lots of tosses to first base, stalling with meetings on the mound and pitching changes to stop momentum of the other team. Every time the Rox started getting a head of offensive steam the Phils played one of these cards…even going so far as to have a 20 minute stall with the ‘injury’ to Eyre late in game three (he sure seemed fine in game four). Contrast that Tracy/Apodoca left Street out to dry in the 9th; instead he wandered around the mound over and over and seemed to be working himself into more of a panic. Tracy also HAS to know when to take out a pitcher in the playoffs- if he has to use three or four pitchers to get those three outs in the 9th, you do it. I love Street and all but there was absolutely no logical reason to leave him out there to face Ryan Howard when you went and got a lefty specialist at trade deadline time for that specific reason. Tracy is fond of saying he likes to put players in position to succeed not fail but he didn’t follow this philosophy so well during this series.

And (sorry about the long-windedness here)…I was flabbergasted that Tracy pulled Stewie in the top of the 9th for EY2. Why pull a power bat that has the potential to draw a walk, get a hit or tie the game with one swing? Sure he’s just as liable to K but what do you have to lose? Instead you put a true rook out there with the game on the line swinging when he should have been bunting. Sure everyone knows he would have been but since he’s in the game for his speed use it. This maneuver also left us with a very screwy infield if we had tied up the game and went into extra innings. This machination was nowhere near as bad as only having pitchers left to PH but it was close.

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

See above

Stewart was actually in the 5th spot after the double switch. It was confusing because the jumbo had him in the 9th slot.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

doh

you were having that discussion while I was writing my tome. My bad. :)

I can't decide whether I'm hungry or just really tired.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

point is that pinching EYJ was a mistake

mistake mistake mistake mistake

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

Hot buttered toast! Mmmmmm.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

AMEN

His lack of discipline should keep him far away from a playoff game until he matures.

Paleface Destro, wildly hacking destroyer of rallies.

by Paleface Destro on Oct 13, 2009 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

is there a place where you can see future salaries for

the MLB? Like to see how long a player is signed for? And I’ve heard some people hoping for for Brian Roberts from the orioles. And if DOD could swing that it would be impressive. It would probably take Atkins or Barmes and a pretty good prospect to get it done but its possible. They most likely wouldn’t take Hawpe with how young and promising their outfield is. But Roberts would provide a legit 2 hole hitter or lead off if Fowler struggles, with the hope that Cargo can drop in the order to a run producing spot. Or keep Cargo up there and have Fowler hit in front of whoever catches next year.

Just some observations, hard to believe mark prior is still only 28. and jason jennings is a free agent……………………………………………………………..

by Bloynoys on Oct 13, 2009 4:11 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 13, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Final thought

Next year Cargo has to hit in the middle of the lineup. His bat is just too productive.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 13, 2009 5:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you like him 2 or 4

assuming he keeps producing at the level he has?

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

3.

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 14, 2009 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok, where do you bat Todd Slowton

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure the best line up in 2010 will look like this:

CarGo
CarGo
CarGo
CarGo
Tulo
CarGo
CarGo
CarGo
Pitcher (possibly CarGo)

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 14, 2009 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

put smith in there somewhere

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

5.

1/2 EY2/Dex
3 Cargo
4 Tulo
5 Helton
6 CDI once he starts hitting again
7 Stew
8 Barmes/2B?

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

err. replace Barmes w/ Smith

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's my ideal three hole style hitter

but this team will always give Helton preferential treatment in the order until he retires.

That said, he’s probably still one year away from being a legit middle order guy. Another year of him leading the team in AB’s at the top of the order certainly won’t hurt us though.

by David OhNo on Oct 13, 2009 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

where should Helton be moved in the order?

5 spot? Or even higher?

Cargo has mentioned he wants to move up in the order…whether this is him or Boras talking I don’t know. :) But I agree, the three hole in a year or so would be molto bene.

Hot buttered toast! Mmmmmm.

by WalkInRight on Oct 13, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably five, though Tulo is probably an even better fit there

Speaking in ideals, this team doesn’t really have a true four hole. Stewart has the most potential to hit four, but potential and present ability are still far apart.

by David OhNo on Oct 13, 2009 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Helton's slow, but his strength is OBP

Doesn’t the 3 spot sound pretty good? Maybe you move him out of there against lefties (though OBP is still his strength), since he turns into a slow Luis Castillo against LHP.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 14, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

two

helton would be a tremendous two..

great on base, will take pitches so dex can steal, great bat control for hit and runs..

watch this space for a soon to be created clever remark....

by RockyMtnCat on Oct 14, 2009 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just very slow

and thus a big DP risk. not to mention clogging up the bases for sluggers.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

hehehe you said clogging up the bases

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are the contractual implications if Helton

chose to retire prior to 2010?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 14, 2009 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he actually retires, he's not paid, I'm pretty certain

However, there’s a less than zero chance he retires prior to 2010. Yes, I know that’s not mathematically correct.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 14, 2009 5:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a quick counter point

The Phills clubbed DLR this season.

I’d still have thrown him over Hammel, much as I love me some Jason Hammel.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 13, 2009 6:39 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure we'll go in to great debate in the coming weeks

but here are some of my initial off-season thoughts:

-Why does Renck keep bring up an extension for Barmes? I know it’s just buying out arbitration, but the Rockies need an out to decline arb if he goes completely in the tank. Barmes is similar to Inge in that he “cheats” for his power by being an extreme pull power guy that costs himself greatly in the average department by his swing length. I’d like to see him stay on as a championship caliber role/platoon player, but there’s still quite a bit of bust potential.

-Hawpe should be easier to move than everyone expects. I don’t want to put too much into his All Star selection, but it does say something about what others in the league see in him. Despite his second half swoon, his VORP of 36.0 put him at sixth amongst ML right fielders. Lefty sock is not as abundant a commodity this off-season, and teams will still put a lot of faith in his line of .285/.384/.519. Also, upon being traded, Brad’s option year cancels out, making him essentially a one year rental, ala Bobby Abreu, Orlando Hudson. For a team lacking in lefty power in their corners, and not wanting to make a long term financial commitment, Hawpe’s one year 7.5 mil deal looks like a real bargain.

-That said, I think the best package to be had for Hawpe will likely come from prospects. The teams with the most likely interest, the Cubs and Mets, may not be looking to move major league parts unless they go by Milton Bradley. I’d love to see a Hawpe-Theriot swap (which is equitable from a value standpoint), but what onus do the Cubs have to trade their starting shortstop? The Orioles want middle order power, and Hawpe would fit the bill, but why would they punt on Roberts after extending him? We’ll see what develops, but there’s no shame in taking prospects here and pocketing the cash savings. Hey Cubs, Hawpe for Cashner?

-Replacing Atkins can go multiple directions. The Rockies have to protect themselves from a Stewart flameout, but could easily find itself in a roster crunch trying to mix and match platoon types. One solution would be to add a starting caliber second baseman, and have Barmes share time with Stewart as a lefty hitting platoon. This would still give Barmes something like 300 ABs between the infield positions with still options to find time for EYJ in the order as well. Finding that starting second baseman is another delimma entirely. The other option is to go after a solid platoon option that could slide in full time if Stew craters. This then creates budget issues. If the Rockies somehow freed up the entirety of Atkins and Hawpe’s financial commitments, this team could take a crack at Mark DeRosa, who is an ideal fit for this team in terms of his lefty power and positional flexibility. While DeRosa is a long shot, I like the idea of Jhonny Peralta as a buy low candidate. Peralta has demonstrated power from the right side while also proving to be a passable defender. Going further down the barrel, would Bobby Crosby take a minor league deal/camp invite? This is a place where I’m sure we’ll spend far more time in the coming weeks discussing.

-If the money is right, Contreras should come back. Replacing Fogg with a pitcher the manager may actually like using would be huge.

-Still will need veteran rotation insurance as Francis’ return is no guarantee. If non-tendered and deemed healthy enough to pitch by Spring, I love the potential fit of Chien-Ming Wang. However, health and price are huge questions left undetermined.

-Lastly, more than anything, this team needs a right handed power bat in the outfield. Basically, they need Hawpe’s numbers from the right side. I don’t think that’s out there in the Rockies’ budget. They could certainly try to get creative here, as in a Iannetta/Corpas for B.J. Upton mega challenge trade, but Hamilton-Volquez appears to be a one time occurance. I don’t expect either team to tale such a risk, but it could be fun talk show fodder. O’Dowd will get his extension, but he’ll prove his worth in how he fills out the lineup with the needed righty pop.

by David OhNo on Oct 13, 2009 7:35 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the orioles would

trade Brian Roberts for much less than people think. People like Barmes/Atkins plus a prospect maybe a little more would get the job done. Gives you a good top of the order guy. What do you guys think is the ideal amount of L/R in your lineup. The best teams don’t platoon often. on a “normal” day this year the rockies would start 3 rightys. Tulo, Barmes, Chris/Yorvit. A 3/5 ratio isnt bad when you have a majority of rightys in starting rotations and especially in bullpens. I think the main problem is our development of Smith, Stewart and Hawpe into being able to hit left handed pitching. Cargo and helton can.

by Bloynoys on Oct 13, 2009 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What makes you think that

the contract extensions they just gave him? The Orioles believe they’re on the doorstep of being the next Tampa Bay Rays, and believed Roberts was integral enough to lock him up long term, why would they now move him for a guy that will be non-tendered, another that may be relegated to a reduced role, and a prospect?

by David OhNo on Oct 14, 2009 6:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because last season

showed them that they have no chance of competing until baseball realigns to 2 divisions and 2 wildcards…? Just speculating, but no realistic Balitmore fan should think they have a decent shot.

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not as long as an Angelos owns the team

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 14, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is my understanding

that he may not own for much longer…

by Teekalong on Oct 14, 2009 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, Helton used to

this year he couldn’t get around. We have to remember that Helton is not getting younger and is 36 years old. Now that we are past the steroid era, we won’t be seeing 39 year old LF’s hitting 60 hr’s every year. Pre-steroid, most baseball careers were done by 35. Many were done at 32

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 14, 2009 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed on this

Helton still has the batting average and good OBP vs LHP, but he’s become a singles hitter of of southpaws.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has a career split of CA-HRUSHING RHP

and a .389 career OBP v LHP (.369 in 2009) isn’t godawful, and Helton “knows” how to be a #3 hitter (whatever that means).

You could very easily make the case of moving his slot in the lineup v LHP.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO

but the best #3 guy would be CarGo. But the way Helton wears down a pitcher and has long at bats you want him to bat after the speed guys get on…so #3.

To answer your question……I think that’s a damn good question. I think Helton would be kinda wasted if he was moved to the 5 hole.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 14, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

his wOBA plays well in the 2 hole though

I figure him being a professional AB and a very difficult out makes him a good #3 hitter still, with Smith and Tulo bookending him.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love him in the 2 hole

if he could run at all.

Seriously in a foot race with Dinger…I might have to go with Dinger

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 14, 2009 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that's the tricky part.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

re. Renck/extension

I dunno…Ringolsby mentioned it, too. Are these guys just assuming, given how much Tracy played him despite the horrendous slump, or are they picking up actual rumblings about this in the org?

What do you think is “right money” for Contreras? It seems like someone would give him a shot to be a starter again, and thus offer something non-trivial…$3-5 million? Even Pavano got a base of $1.5M last year (and looks like he earned an additional 2.65M in incentives).

At any rate, they do need rotation insurance, and O’Dowd seems pretty good at lining that up.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 14, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

re Contreras

it’d have to be a Pavano style deal or I’m not interested.

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something similar to Pavano

With incentives for starts, as his secondary role will be starter insurance. Sounds reasonable for someone of dubious age.

by David OhNo on Oct 14, 2009 11:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

What are the odds of

keeping Betencourt and Contreras this coming off season? I think keeping both pitchers would help stabilize any injury issues and or Jeff not coming back and pitching well.

1-8: Cargo/Fowler/Seth/Tulo/Helton/Stewie/Chris/EY2.

Win.

by Kiiiee on Oct 14, 2009 12:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Odds of keeping Betancourt are probably a bit higher, even though he's more expensive

We’ve got an option to pick up. If we decline the option and try to resign him, we probably lose him.

With Contreras, we probably have a decent chance, but any team that makes him an offer that includes a starting rotation role jumps ahead of us in the pecking order.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Oct 14, 2009 2:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the beauty

of the club option. No long term contracts to lock the team into. Especially nice for relievers.

by Hizilla on Oct 14, 2009 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

what about Felipe Lopez at 2b?

he hit 310/.383/.427 with a 356woba and 4.6 war.

hes also just as good of a fielder as barmes 7.6 UZR vs 7.0 for barmes.

my guess is the brewers try to resign him. biggest downside is he will likely be a type A free agent according to Cots

by purplesocks on Oct 14, 2009 8:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I saw type B on MLBTR

FREE CHRIS IANNETTA

At least against LHP, I mean COME ON

by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 12:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

if someone signs one of our type b guys though, there would be no net loss for our club.

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was meant to be a question.

if we sign a type b, and someone signs one of our type b guys, how does that change the draft picks with that?

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we sign a Type B Free Agent

it costs us nothing but the salary we pay the FA. Their previous club would get a sandwich round pick out of it, it wouldn’t affect our draft picks we would get from someone else signing Marquis or Beimel (assuming we offer both arbitration and they both decline).

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

we better offer both players arb

i want those draft picks. and if they accept arb i wouldnt be opposed to having either back on a 1 year deal

by purplesocks on Oct 18, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Colorado Rockies, established 28 April 2005.

Community Guidelines

Start posting about the Rockies »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Thinkimadetherightchoice_small
A Quick Investigation into the Aerodynamic Drag on Fly Balls at Coors

Recent FanPosts

Dsc00219_small
Purple Row Thank You Card
Fire2_small
The Prologue to the Season...Finally
Me3
Rockaholics Anonymous: Speak Rockaholic?
Small
The Moment You Knew...
Sleepy_jeff_small
Purple Row Fantasy Leagues 2010
Helton_small
Spring Training Questions
Newport_bridge_small
Take Your Pick
Helton_small
MLB 2K10
Small
Fans await opening day

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Colorado Sports Blogs

Mile High Report (Denver Broncos)
Mile High Hockey (Colorado Avalanche)
Pickaxe and Roll (Denver Nuggets)
The Ralphie Report (CU Buffaloes)

Top 30 PuRPs

  1. Christian Friedrich, LHP
  2. Tyler Matzek, LHP
  3. Jhoulys Chacin, RHP
  4. Esmil Rogers, RHP
  5. Eric Young, Jr., 2B/CF
  6. Wilin Rosario, C
  7. Hector Gomez, SS
  8. Michael McKenry, C
  9. Rex Brothers, LHP
  10. Casey Weathers, RHP
  11. Chris Balcom-Miller, RHP
  12. Tim Wheeler, OF
  13. Charlie Blackmon, OF
  14. Samuel Deduno, RHP
  15. Nolan Arenado, 3B
  16. Brandon Hynick (traded to CWS), RHP
  17. Chris Nelson, SS/2B
  18. Juan Nicasio, RHP
  19. Cole Garner, OF
  20. Chaz Roe, RHP
  21. Kiel Roling, 1B
  22. Parker Frazier, RHP
  23. Delta Cleary, OF
  24. Darin Holcomb, 3B
  25. Shane Lindsay, RHP
  26. Matt Reynolds, LHP
  27. Mike Zuanich, OF
  28. Scott Robinson, OF
  29. Edgmer Escalona, RHP
  30. Ben Paulsen, 1B
updated 9/14/2009


Managers

Me_small Russ Oates

Rox_girl_small Rox Girl

Staff

Reynolds_small Silverblood

Seth_smith_0004_2_small Andrew Martin

Sleepy_jeff_small Jeff Aberle

Coorsfield3_small Bryan Kilpatrick

67880020--bled-slovenia_small Andrew T. Fisher

Rowbot Radio

Deep_forest_small WolfMarauder