Wednesday Rockpile: With Rocktober Over, Rockies Refocusing on 2010
by Jeff Aberle on Oct 14, 2009 8:06 AM MDT
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PrintEven as Woody Paige writes the epitaph to a great 2009 season, Rockies fans looking for some solace after the toughest loss in franchise history can be consoled by looking forward to next year.
That's not to say that we shouldn't look back and honor the efforts of our team and what was a magical, pretty unique season. We Colorado Rockies fans are pretty spoiled in that regard, having two likable, heroic teams of destiny in three years.
Those who have read my posts know that I generally don't give a bunch of weight to the "intangibles" like chemistry, but this team really did seem to function very well as a unit (not a collection of individuals), creating a sum that was far more than its parts. Jim Tracy, if nothing else (and some would argue that this is the case), allowed the considerable young talent on this team to gel and create the best team in Rockies history (more on that tomorrow). With this patient, powerful offense, improving defense, and excellent young pitching it's clear that there's much to look forward to next year.
Rockies Fans hope to see more Rocktober baseball next year
For those who are still grieving (and there's certainly nothing wrong with that) think back on the indelible moments of 2009 (the Spilly Slam, the Barmes "catch", Seth Smith and Jason Giambi's late game heroics, and many more). One of my favorites happened Monday night when Dexter Fowler briefly turned into a superhero. In case you're ready to look at next year a little bit (and Purple Row will be doing a LOT of that over the next few weeks) here are a few articles to whet your appetite:
Analysis: With some exceptions, the Colorado Rockies appear to be in great shape for the future - The Denver Post
Troy Renck and Patrick Saunders write about the flaws and strengths of this team moving forward into 2010 and look at the offseason decisions the team faces.
In the article the DP writers reinforce the notion that both Dan O'Dowd and Jim Tracy will be back for a couple of years. Meanwhile, they expect Garrett Atkins and Brad Hawpe to be gone (something I've been calling for since perhaps the lowest point of May) while they think that Huston Street and Clint Barmes will be back on multi-year deals.
The Barmes debate is a pretty tired subject on the Row, but I will admit that the taste the second baseman left in my mouth was a sour one and that I believe he'd be best suited to a super-utilityman role and not a starting one. For better or worse, as long as Tracy is managing this team, Barmes will likely be starting at second base.
Renck and Saunders also opine about the bullpen and starting rotation next year as well as the catching situation. For the most part I agree with them (especially on the last point).
Rockies looking to build upon solid base - USATODAY.com
Vicki Michaelis writes a similar article outlining the major decisions the Rockies have this offseason.
Hawpe, Marquis face uncertain futures | ColoradoRockies.com: News
Thomas Harding writes in more detail about the situations the Rockies face with Hawpe and Jason Marquis, their 2009 All-Star Game representatives. My guess is that neither will be back.
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from the DP article
although Beimel said he wants to return, he will test the market.
By definition, that means he’s leaving. If the Rockies weren’t going to be the high bidder last year, what makes anyone think they will be this year, when they have restrictions to negotiations once he declares for FA. I assume he’ll be a type B FA, and the Rockies will take the draft picks. Too bad…great bath robe, greater walk in music.
But they can’t continue to be patient if Iannetta doesn’t hit better. If Torrealba goes elsewhere, a catch-and-throw backup is key. And he could already be in the fold with Paul Phillips.
But Paul Phillips is also a minor league free agent so technically he’s not IN THE FOLD.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
What about McKenry?
Or do we need veteranyness?
mckenry might just be a completely dead out. I'd wager he'll get a look and start in AAA.
at least Iannetta has OBP going for him.
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At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
did we just agree on something involving Iannetta
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At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
mostly McKenry
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
crap
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by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
While we joke about veteranyness
around here, it’s actually nice to have in a catcher. Problem is, once they have enough veteranyness to be a factor, their legs and bats start to give way to age.
name to consider: Bengie Molina. He can’t be an everyday catcher. but he’s still a great catch and throw guy, can hit enough for the Giants to think he’s a clean-up hitter (he’s not). If Iannetta bombs, having Molina everyday would be an upgrade over Yorvit.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I don't DISLIKE the thought of having a thumping Molina as a platoon partner
but I’m strongly doubting he’ll sign for less than what Yorvy would make with an exercised option.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
I was hoping the age difference
would lower the cost of Molina. Plus Torrealba has had a hot couple of months and a playoff, and sadly many GM’s watch that and give too much credence to playoff performance, cause that might be their only time they’ve watched a team like the Rockies.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
if we hate Barmes' bat
we’d hate Molina that much more.
I do like his cannon though. Iannetta/Molina would be a solid tandem as well. Provided Molina bats like 7th at the absolute highest
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions
but Molina was a clean up hitter just this last YEAR!
I just dream of a back up catcher, that could actually throw out runners. And one that’s not completely useless when he comes to bat as about 3/4 of the catchers are in the league.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I'm wondering who you're talking about all of a sudden
but yeah, Yadi is the only remaining productive Molina. They’re great backups, though.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
The catcher talk in the article is hilarious
Is Torrealba’s stretch-run and playoff performance a fluke? If not – that is, sure, he won’t hit .300 next year, but if he’s still a “gamer,” “big moment player,” “great with pitchers,” etc., why wouldn’t he be worth $4 million?
But they can’t continue to be patient if Iannetta doesn’t hit better.
Hit better than what? He had a rough rookie year and a bad July/August. However, he hit consistently in the minors and his overall 2009 and MLB career averages (which naturally include his rookie year and July/August of ‘09) put him well above the MLB-avg catcher and well above the Bengie Molina’s of the world. I guess they’re assuming his July/Aug suddenly is his baseline?
And Paul Phillips: he puts up Torrealba’s numbers, but in AAA.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I agree
with your point that perhaps we’re expecting too much from CDI. He’s not Mike Piazza, and we need to come to grips with that. And he’s probably not McCann or Russell Martin either, but he’s better than most other options. But he does need to start making more contact, I can’t imagine the July/Aug CDI with Barmes and the P spot as a threatening lineup.
I think CDI and Stew are in the same boat: put up or shut up time next year. The Rox window is now.
What does "put up" mean?
Not slump so bad as July/August? Slumps happen. If Iannetta puts up an .800 OPS again but with a low average, he’s out the door? Who replaces him?
Iannetta does seem capable of more, but we shouldn’t lose sight of what he’s actually accomplishing, which is a lot.
A big difference between CDI and Stewart to me is their position. Even with all his problems, Iannetta was above avg for his position. Stewart was pretty much avg overall (a little under with the bat, the glove brings him back up). It seems easier to upgrade an avg player than an above avg one. (Though it seems we all pretty much assume Stewart will improve next season.)
Or if the problem is the composition of the lineup – we don’t like strikeouts and we want to cut the number of spots with high K hitters – well, it seems like there’s plenty of options there, not just removing Iannetta.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I mean
that OPS is a great measure but doesn’t tell the whole story. If he’s 800 OPS but only hitting .220 again, I contend that is flat not good enough, particularly because he’ll be batting 8th and all the purported value of his walks will be negated by having the pitcher behind him, etc. I don’t want to start the hit/walk debate all over again but suffice to say that Iannetta needs to get more hits. Let’s not act like his Ks were not an issue. They were.
I’m not saying we push him out the door, either. I’m saying right now we believe he should be the Man, rightfully so. But if he has yet another year where he loses his job (this has happened twice in his 3 years) then it will be time to seriously consider other options. In short, he’ll be where Hawpe is now, a guy that we could keep but probably will need to improve if possible. Maybe it won’t be possible and he stays by default. But his Golden Child status has to be at an end.
average is a component of ops, not the other way around
So yeah, ops is more important. I would argue walks are plenty valuable in the 8 hole. Either you flip the order to the top or bunt into scoring position. Neither are wasted by any means. Sure, he ought not be golden boy, but he is still an above average offensive catcher. He does need to be more aggressive, because he doesn’t have the power to negate the ks. Maybe learn from cargo how to turn those fly balls into line drives. There is plenty to work on, but he is starting from being a solid hitter as is
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 12:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm aware of how it works
my point is that his high OPS mitigates his bad average, it doesn’t make it completely OK. And things like turning over the lineup are all great and stuff, but passing the buck to a pitcher to get the key hit is not a recipe for success. I do have faith in CDI to improve on his weaknesses and keep his job next year, I don’t think C is nearly the problem area that 3b and 2b are for us. But that doesn’t mean that I agree with the SABR crowd that his 800 OPS means he’s awesome. He’s got work to do.
800 OPS is kind of that line between good and making excuses for a guy
a guy somewhere between .775-.825 OPS is more than likely a decent batter, but probably not the best in your lineup. Just a guy you want to have along, and probably start over most of your bench. Once you hit that 850-900+ OPS, it’s kind of undeniable that the guy is a good batter.
But in Iannetta’s case, with his OPS in that iffy range, you kind of need to look at the components and then make the case for him. We know Iannetta is capable of batting around .260, which would be good for him, as it’d give him an OBP of around .380 and a SLG of something like .500.
I don’t think he’s awesome, but a .800 OPS gives him a second look.
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by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Exactly my point
I’m not saying to run him off, but in your post you identify the key issue = we know he can hit better than he has. He flatly underachieved this year, and that’s why he lost his job. He will be in danger of losing his job again if he continues to underachieve. Baseball folks love the scrappy overachiever over the talented underachiever, hell that is true in any profession. I mean, Eckstein is deified and everyone hates JD Drew, even though Drew is actually good and Eckstein sucks. Here again is obviously how Yorvit took the job. I mean, I get the sense that some around here think Tracy believes Yorvit is the more talented batter, but I don’t believe that’s true. I think instead Tracy wanted to reward the guy playing over his head rather than the guy playing under his head. I suspect Tracy also shared the “fools gold” mentality some here, and was hoping CDI would come back from the benching with some fire. But it just so happened that Yorvit continued to be awesome so Tracy didn’t need to find out. But now we need to know.
So, if he puts up another .800 OPS
You run him out of town, despite it being above avg for his position? (And if his config of skills makes him ill-suited to bat 8th, they could…I dunno…try not batting him 8th. Though I think CDI is mischaracterized as an OBP-only guy.)
If you can find and afford a catcher with an .850-.900 OPS, by all means, slot him in there. But I didn’t know a Brian McCann or Joe Mauer were available. Until then, I don’t get the complaints. It seems like his “golden child” status seems to result primarily from people who see value beyond batting avg and who make adjustments for position.
I think it’s pretty safe to say Iannetta’s never going to post a high avg, so if that’s one’s beef with him, one might as well give up on him already.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I think you are missing the point
the idea is that his 800 OPS was not good enough for the decision-makers this year, hence his benching. Why do you think that will suddenly be OK to those same people? You act like only the foolish old-school fan will not be enamored by the OPS, but its also the old-school coach that has the same view. And unlike me or you, what he thinks matters.
The idea is not that he gets run out of town, the idea is that if he continues to underachieve you have to actively start looking for an upgrade, which is presently not happening — nor should it be. He’s going to have another chance to lock down the job…which is in effect his 3rd chance, which is well more than most players get on good teams. He’s going to get that chance for good reason — very talented kid who is still “productive” even if not playing well. But at some point, and I suggest that it will be next year, all that potential needs to manifest in a guy that doesn’t get benched down the stretch in a tight playoff chase.
It is certainly possible that no upgrade will be available. As you say, McCann and Mauer ain’t available. But we can’t assume that, however. This year, for instance, Yorvit became a “better” option and took CDI’s playing time. I agree that is unlikely to happen again, but when Yorvit can replace you, no matter how “hot” he was, you are not irreplaceable.
Tracy never gave Iannetta the shot to re-replace Torrealba, either
he mashed in his limited September action. Torrealba put up a whopping .756 OPS, but it was highlighted by a .310 batting average. I get the impression that’s all Jim Tracy sees. That, and timely hits, which I’ll still maintain are not something you can do from season to season.
I personally felt he was just flat out unfair with Iannetta, almost to the point of detriment to the team. I’m not even trying to badmouth Torrealba, he was clutch as hell.
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by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions
That seems like an argument
that CDI’s mom might make but nobody in the baseball world would. Again, this demonstrates that those in power see OPS vis a vis BA in a different light than those in the academic/stats side of this stuff.
The fact is that Yorvit took the job and ran with it. He was great. CDI never got another chance because the team didn’t need to give him one, it was getting what it needed from Yorvit. Indeed, its arguable that it would have been negligent of Tracy to pull Yorvit given his productivity. There is no evidence whatsoever that playing Yorvit down the stretch was a detriment to the team. The only argument against Yorvit all month was the repeated whiny mantra: “but, but, but he can’t keep this up!” But he did. Yorvit’s great play was instrumental in the team’s securing a playoff spot, and obviously he was one of the two or three best players on the team against the Phils. That cannot be reasonably debated. Whether CDI would have done better is certainly possible, but pure conjecture, and ultimately meaningless. We might as well argue whether or not Murton would have outhit Fowler or something. Its possible, sure, but who cares? Yorvit flat out got it done from Aug-Oct, and once the anti-Yorvit crowd comes to grips with this, and stops blaming Tracy for playing a guy that was playing great over a guy that was not playing great, we’ll all be better off. Or, at least, we won’t have to re-hash this stuff all offseason.
And really, you also make my point. If Tracy values BA over OPS, then it becomes indisputable that CDI needs to raise his BA if he wants to secure his future here, which is another point that should not be reasonably debateable.
None of this should be read as an endorsement of Yorvit over CDI for the future, but rather sincere hopes that CDI will do what he needs to do to, for once, keep his job.
Teekalong
you walked into the Iannetta vs Torrealba debate.
I’ve given up when it comes to this. They think a guy that doesn’t hit….is a htter because he walks and his few hits he gets are either homers or doubles, like that makes up for all the times he’s not hitting.
The thing is, if a guy’s average isn’t up there, he won’t be getting walked much going forward. Why be scared of a guy that can’t make contact?
OBP, and OPS are nice to look at. They give a bigger picture view. But AVG is VERY important, but they just won’t see that or ever admit it. They have new stats, which of course makes all the old stats inferior, and quaint to them.
Remember to them a .220 hitter is the greatest player on the team.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I don't think the number guys will tell you that average is not important
They will tell you that OBP, OPS, and WOBP are more important. Your argument about hitters with low averages not walking much in the future is ludachrist. (Sorry if that comes off as mean but I don’t believe that for a second) Do you think that Ryan Howard and Mark Reynolds will not walk in the furture? Howard hit .251 last year and Reynolds .260 this year, yet they both rack up numerous HR and walks, and that makes them better players than someone like Scott Podsednik who hit .304 with a .353. OBP and 7 HR this year.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 14, 2009 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I think this argument would be better suited
for a player comprable in power to Howard and Reynolds. Iannetta hit 16 bombs, maybe if he keeps his job he its 20. So basically he’s Barmes who walks a lot. Which is better. And useful, but far from Howard.
I'm not saying that CDI is as good as Howard
I’m just saying that a stat like OPS is more important than batting average.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 14, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions
How often do you walk a guy home?
You hit people home. Example – Yorvit. How people can continue to bag on the guy and clamor for CDI is beyond me. I should probably just give up at this point…at least I’ve beaten my roomie into submission
by RockyNuggets on Oct 15, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
how often does a single clear the bases
people seem to equate saying “start the more talented catcher” as “bagging on Yorvy”
Yorvy did great. He was clutch as hell. I loved him.
Iannetta will be more productive over the course of a season than Yorvit. If you want to look at the microcosm of a game and point out a single that squeaked through a hole to tie the game up, and then look at a different game where Chris Young makes a phenomenal catch to rob a smashed line drive from being a hit, go for it, you can argue individual ABs until the cows come home.
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by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions
I know I know
I should be above this by now, afterall the debate was really won on the field as the “fools gold” argument was demonstrably false. But sometimes I can’t help myself, I’m weak that way, and my job makes me argumentative by nature. Alas, we’ve got nothing to do for months but argue…but its all good.
haha, fools gold proved false
see what he does in 2010. If he bats like this in 2010, I will eat my words in some sort of baked form.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions
The "fools good" argument was proved false insofar as he continued it into the playoffs.
For that, I was wrong. However, as RMN says, there’s not a good chance that he’ll hit anywhere near that level next year.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Oct 15, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
who cares?
the fools gold argument had absolutely nothing to do with 2010.
again with the blanket statements
Cargo, Tulo, Helton, Smith – there are your best hitters.
Unless you want to point out that Torrealba’s .291 AVG puts him ahead of Cargo, Dex, Hawpe. Clearly a better batter than them.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
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by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 12:41 AM MDT up reply actions
ehh
but only on Iannetta and Stewart do the stats people go freakin bonkers about, and write essays on their greatness as hitters.
And Torrealba is the MAN, man! Quite possibly the greatest Rockie of all time!
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I wrote my article on Iannetta's greatness
after he had the greatest hitting season for a Rockies catcher.
Earlier this season I wrote an article pointing out all the crap he was doing wrong and the things he was doing right.
I – being STATS PEOPLE – recognize how crappy he’s looked, and fully acknowledge them. I also still think he has more value than you’re giving him credit for.
Stop with these statements that ALL STATS PEOPLE SAY HE’S DOING FANTASTICALLY – WE KNOW HE’S NOT.
(this all applies to Stewart as well).
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
i dont think anyone in the sabr crowd say hes awesome for the 800 ops
His 2008 was awesome but this year, average (pun intended) was far from great. I think you and I are essentially looking at a tree from opposite sides, describing it differently but still seeing the same tree. He indeed has work to do (I pointed out specifics in the last comment) and he underachieved this year. He is capable of better and needs to prove it
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 1:26 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I will be interested to see what Yorvit gets
I agree he cannot be paid 4M if CDI is going to be given yet another chance to earn the starter’s job (which he should). But how much will someone else pay? If we could get him for like 2 years at 4M that wouldn’t be bad.
I honestly think this is all on Tracy. I don’t think its out of the question that Tracy “demands” that Yorvit be retained. Its patently obviously that Tracy likes Yorvit as the starter. This could be a very interesting behind-the-scenes issue, as I doubt very much DOD sees it the same way.
Could be an interesting power dynamic showdown…
Here's a question..
Considering what Yorvit and his family went through, he seemed genuinely moved and changed and grateful to be with the Rockies organization. Is he due to make the $4M and that cannot be changed? Could he take a lower salary to stay with the team?
Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!
Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!
it's a team option
so they could decline the option but still negotiate a contract for different terms.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
And how is it generally received by players and agents
when an organization declines an option?
Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!
Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!
depends
if they think they are worth it, they can be a little ticked off. If the follow up offer is for more years, and a steady paycheck. then they usually are happy with it (depending on how much they get paid per year)
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I'd like to think Yorvit knows he isn't fooling everyone after his 2008
and honestly, 4.5/6.5 months of 2009 as well.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Assuming we decline the option
we’ll see what his value is on the market and can make a legitimate choice. I doubt he’ll hold it against us, partially because he seems like he likes Colo and his teammates, and partially because we can remind him that we bailed him out completely when his Mets deal fell apart. I doubt either side ever seriously envisioned that this option would be picked up, it was more of a “save face” throw-in. Who knows, maybe things have changed. But I suspect if we do retain him it will be on a deal somethign in the 2 year, 4M range.
oh, I dunno
there are some pretty stupid GM’s out there.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 14, 2009 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
OH I SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 15, 2009 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Barmes
The frustrating thing about Barmes is that between the power (.440 SLG) and the defense (6th best according to UZR/150) he should be a steal for the price. But the OBP (.298) is just awful. It seemed like even Barmes’ detractors from last off-season were expecting around .320 OBP. Not that .320 is great, but as a 7 or 8 hitter with good D, a .760 OBP is passable.
Even though I was a staunch defender of going with Clint (over Orlando Hudson or other, pricier options) last off-season, it’s time to move on. Unless he’ll take $2-3M/year over 2 or 3 years, just give EY2 a chance.
$2.5M
And then take that $2.5M saved by replacing Barmes with EY2, and spend it on a real LH situational reliever. That might have come in handy against Utley, Howard and Ibanez.
If we would have used them against Utley, Howard and Ibanez...
Like, with the tying runs on base in the ninth inning…
(What?)
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
by Franchise26 on Oct 14, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't watch a lot of coverage
or get to visit the site during the nlds. Was there a reason Morales wasn’t used at all?
At the very least, he could have just thrown some stuff low and away. At worst, he would have walked them, instead of what actually happened.
Morales pitched to one
in the 8th inning.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
Out of curiosity
How good is EY2’s 2B defense? We only got to see him play there a little bit. I know he has great speed but I don’t think he’s a polished defender yet. I like the idea of him being our everyday 2B but I hate to have anything less than above average defense up the middle.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 14, 2009 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
from what I've seen
EY2’s defense is fair. He has nice range. He gets to balls. But then he’s not so graceful. picking up the ball, and making an tough throw, or a spin he’s not so great at.
But the biggest issue I saw was turning the Double Play where he looked awkward and slow. This can be learned however.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
EY2 has about the same hands as his dad
in other words, sub par.
good hands are the most important tool for a middle infielder, so he’ll probably never be better than average.
i know he’s fast, but what has he ever shown that leads us to believe he’ll be anything exciting offensively in the majors?? is it that .320 career obp in the minors??
watch this space for a soon to be created clever remark....
mostly
that he’s improved through the minors as he’s moved up. Also he did alright in his Sept cup of coffee call up this year (not that that means anything one way or the other)
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
According to a Fangraphs writeup,
“Defensively, Young Jr. is considered an average-at-best second baseman…” But he’s only seen 44 innings there in the pros, and he moved around a bit in the minors. With some work in the field who knows. His minor league record shows he can get on base and has good base running instincts (the falling down gaffe aside), which is not common to the Rockies’ lineup.
Last off-season, people talked about Baker’s potential at the plate off-setting his fielding deficiencies. Well, EY2 has enough potential at the plate and in the field to make the proclamations about Baker true.
I would start EYJ on Hammel, DLR, (#5) starts
and Barmes on Cook and Ubaldo starts. I want to exploit a strength as much as possible. It’s better to prevent a run than to score a run.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
But I would start Brian Roberts 6 days a week.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Are you thinking a Hawpe for Roberts trade?
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 14, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think he'll get it done
but we do have Chris Nelson and Franklin Morales who could prove to be intriguing.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions
but Brian Roberts
is slowing down. I worry that he’s going to get old fast, and will lose his main weapon of stolen bases.
My fantasy team can attest to Roberts being benched for a good part of the season this last year
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
he is
but I only want him for like 2 years, maybe 3, while Hector Gomez preps for the majors.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd take a 31 yr old 2B
with a career average of .284/.356/.421 and average of 35-40 doubles per year, with only half the SB he gets.
To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 14, 2009 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions
he's worth every penny
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions
eh
I like him, I don’t love him. He hits for decent average, has a solid but not amazing OPS, not a huge amount of power and is below average defensivly. I wouldn’t give up too much for him.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 14, 2009 8:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Would a 2B
who put up this line in 224 plate appearances 2009 be interesting to you?
.305/.362/.448
Are you talking about Omar Infante?
I wonder what the pricetag on Erick Aybar would be
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Or Ryan Theriot
or Adstrubal Cabrera
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
i like cabs a lot
But with peralta falling out of favor, who does Cleveland have to step in at short that would allow cabs to be expendable?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 10:59 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Chris Nelson?
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Can we get another Brave in Yunel Escobar?
or Jose Lopez from the Mariners.
I’m actually very ok with EY2 at 2nd. I’m not ok with Barmes as the starter. But if the Rockie keep both….I think we’ll have the same debate with them as with Stewart and Atkins in Sept. One hits, one can defend…which one should play?
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
yunel escobar would probably be like Dexter hard to get
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I can dream
like before Christmas, when I look at the Sears catalog and dream. I knew Santa couldn’t bring them all…but it was nice to dream.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
oh don't get me wrong
a middle infield of Tulo and Yunel would drive me up the wall it’d be so awesome.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
only if a group of fans form a "Yunel Cartel" fan section.
To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 14, 2009 6:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Speaking of Lopez
they need a 3rdbaseman, and a left handed hitting power OF. Atkins and Hawpe, a throw in pitcher like Greg Smith for Lopez?
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I don't like Lopez' defense and lack of plate discipline
he has a solid bat when it comes through, but it’s very prone to slumps, etc.
What about Felipe Lopez? He’s a type-B, but we’ll probably just swap picks around a bit, considering our type-B’s
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
I WOULD LOVE Felipe Lopez!
he had mechanical issues when he sucked a year ago. He fixed them….and he was my 2nd baseman in my fantasy league OVER Brian Roberts!
One 2ndbaseman I’ve liked for a long time has been Brandon Phillips. I know his career obp of .312 wont excite anyone around here, but he’s a steady 20/20 guy and only 28. He will bring a pricey contract: $6.75M in 2010, $11M in 2011, and a team option for $12M in 2012
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
Phillips has a big glove
but his bat has been falling apart since 2007. He’d need a reinvention, and that’s something we don’t wanna pay $20M+ for.
That said, I wonder how much Felipe Lopez would cost us in the FA market. Probably a big chunk, he had a solid season.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
more than Hudson last year?
I still think this year will hard on FA’s as teams try to keep costs down.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
I wouldn't be surprised to see him garner a 3 year deal.
Near-career year at the plate, career year in the field.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
three months ago
Some were suggesting theriot and escobar were every bit as good as tulo, perhaps better. Obviously wrong, but they both are probably harder to get than they are worth
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 10:55 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Jeff Baker
put up that line with the Cubs playing mostly second base. Although his BABIP was ridiculously high after being ridiculously low here. Cubs fans think he is the long term answer all of a sudden.
innnnnnnnnnnnteresting
atta boy Jeff
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I liked Baker
but he was streaky as hell. Wait for him to have a cold streak, and lets see how the Cubs fan like him then.
I’m still more than ok with EY2 at 2nd. I’d take what I know about Young, over what I know about Baker.
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
but damn when he was hot
oh man
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
no kidding
Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)
dont be sad - we have essentially the same guy on the roster
Although he bats from the opposite side of the plate, has more power and his number is one off
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 1:54 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
and he has the wolfpack music as his walkup
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm sure he's fun to grab a beer with
but I just can’t stand his columns.
Although I bet he can’t stand mine, either.
FREE CHRIS IANNETTA
At least against LHP, I mean COME ON
by Andrew Martin on Oct 14, 2009 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
i saw him in Tucson last year
Didn’t speak to him, partly because I was so flabbergasted with how old he looked. Seemed decent. Could be my grandpa
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 14, 2009 11:16 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
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