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Around SBN: SB Nation interviews Jerome Bettis

Saturday Rockpile: Will we be saying goodbye to some old friends?

Posting from the road, so I'm keeping it short (and late). The stove is already heating up...

Brad Hawpe: What’s His Trade Market? " The Ghost of Moonlight Graham
Adam Bernacchio looks at the trade market for Brad Hawpe and goes through his pros/cons as well as potential suitors, which include the Red Sox (aren't they potential suitors for EVERYONE?), Mets, and Cubs.

What The Rockies Should Do With Betancourt, Hawpe and Torrealba | Around the Majors
Tyler Hissey ponders what the Rockies should do with three of their upcoming free agents. It seems like he pretty much echoes the sentiments of the crowd here at Purple Row, saying that Betancourt should be brought back, while Hawpe and Torrealba should receive their walking papers. He does make some compelling arguments along the way, so check it out.

Renck: Baseball in November is ridiculous - The Denver Post
In Troy E. Renck's piece about the hilarity of baseball being played in November, he has the following quote from Dodgers' coach Larry Bowa regarding our very own Rox: "Well, the mauling occurred early in the season. The last (three series) we played against them, they were great games," Dodgers third-base coach Larry Bowa said. "They are young. And they have a lot of talent." Bowa apparently went on to gush about budding star Carlos Gonzalez. Also, buried in the article is an update on Yorvit Torrealba, whom the Rockies would like to bring back but at less than half of his $4MM club option. As Renck says, Torrealba will likely bolt if a starting job is offered for similar (or more) money.

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Bring back Raffy, absolutely.

question marks about Buchholz and Weathers almost necessitate this.

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 17, 2009 10:00 AM MDT reply actions  

Maybe the Mets

will sign Torrealba this time around.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Oct 17, 2009 10:03 AM MDT via mobile reply actions  

Ha, maybe

BTW, I didn’t realize this, but Torrealba reached type B status with his late season push (assuming that the formula used is actually correct). So, we decline the option, offer arbitration, and if he bolts, we can get a pick.

by mkorpal on Oct 17, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Seems pretty risky

Players almost always ter a raise in arbitration. So if they don’t want to pick up his $4M option I don’t see how they would risk him accepting arbitration and give him more than the $3.5M he made this year.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 10:29 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm starting to think that

Hawpe, at best, will only bring back a marginal prospect or two. I just can’t see that many teams giving up much to get a player who only has marginally more value that the glut of free agent DH types, at a higher cost.

by mkorpal on Oct 17, 2009 10:13 AM MDT reply actions  

It depends on how they see him as an OF

The Rockies obviously don’t feel he’s as bad in the OF as a variety of play-by-play metrics say he is (or they don’t care). If other teams feel he’s a legit option for the OF, he’s a lot better than most of the guys who will be available.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 17, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hey Grizzly, I'm part of the crowd

that does not think we should part with any of these players.

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 10:25 AM MDT reply actions  

The issue then is paying everyone

If payroll remains around $75 million (last year’s approx opening day figure), it gets a bit tight once you factor in the likely raises for the arb-eligibles. Guys like Renck seem to think the team is intent on trading Corpas. If that’s possible, the savings helps, but he’s due at least $6.5M over the next two years. That’s a lot for a reliever of his recent performance/health.

It’s doable but limits other options, such as filling out the pen, picking up a RH bat or corner infield guy, picking up a non-Fogg starting pitcher insurance guy.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

I hear what you are saying...and this gets into the

whole debate about how far ownership is willing to crack the checkbook. And I should have been more specific. I was referring to Hawpe, Torrealba and Atkins. I can understand more Atkins, but I’m definitely against moving Hawpe or Yorvit. Corpas we could probably live without. We have Francis and Buchholz back, hopefully healthy and good to go

I would like to think ownership could figure out a way to get to $80 million and maybe we can keep some of these guys.

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

The problem I have with keeping Hawpe

is much more that he would take away playing time from better players. His salary for next year is not bad, but if he sticks around it takes away from playing Seth Smith. I think that the $7M in resources is better spent elsewhere and letting $450K Seth (who is better than Hawpe) start. If you keep Smith and Atkins, you are paying upwards of $15M for guys who ought to be backups on this team – which in my mind is a very very poor allocation of resources, for a club that cannot afford to waste those resources.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Did you mean

If you keep Hawpe and Atkins?

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Yes I did. Brain not working at full capacity this weekend.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm right there with you bro

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

I pretty much agree with Hizilla

It’s not that Hawpe is a bad player, it’s not that he’s not valuable – but given the other options we have in the outfield, Hawpe is more expensive, and keeping him around is just actively hurting the Rockies. Smith appears to be Hawpe’s equal offensively – perhaps a little worse, but his defense more than makes up for it since Smith is a plus defender whereas Hawpe is arguably the worst outfielder in all of baseball.

Also, Hawpe’s BABIP this past season was .360 – while he’s shown the ability to post high BABIP’s this will probably fall over the course of next season and hurt his trade value more.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hawpe the worst outfielder in baseball??

How did his peers select him to the All-Star team if he is the worst outfielder in baseball?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

His peers must not pay attention to defensive metrics

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Or their eyes or scouts

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 17, 2009 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

you think we can trade for

Brandon Phillips or Brain Roberts?…barmes hawpe and a minor leaguer??

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

thanks for a great season Rockies!

LETS GO WINGS!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Oct 17, 2009 10:54 AM MDT reply actions  

although

the O’s are set in RF though so nevermind for them

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

thanks for a great season Rockies!

LETS GO WINGS!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Oct 17, 2009 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

They could use him to play 1b

But I don’t see us pulling off a trade with either team

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

I posted the same EXACT thing yesterday

the rockies should trade hawpe, barmes, and a minor leaguer to get Brandon Phillips. If Dan O’ Dowd really wants to win a championship, he needs to do this.

by Cargo5 on Oct 17, 2009 11:16 AM MDT reply actions  

nice

good minds think alike…hey ya never know maybe they can pull off a blockbuster deal

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

thanks for a great season Rockies!

LETS GO WINGS!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Oct 17, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

welcome to the row

Quick tip: if you want to reply to an individul post, there is a reply button under each post. If you use that, it helps keep topics organized.

As for the reds deal, I don’t see the motivation on their end. They have a solid if not spectacular outfield, and they love Phillips. It gives them a strong left right combo in the meat of their order. What “minor leaguer” would you propose? He would have to be more desirable than at least barmes if not hawpe as well

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 17, 2009 1:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ya it is probably a long shot

But its worth looking into by the front office. And ya thanks for the help I’m still getting used to the site.

by Cargo5 on Oct 18, 2009 12:24 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't see the motivation on our end

Philips’ bat has slipped pretty regularly, and while his fielding is still real good, Phillips’ selling point is that he’s a 20/20 guy.

We have a 20/12 guy already with a comparable glove for like 1/5 the price tag at worst.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Oct 18, 2009 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

And Torrealba must be brought back!!

What he did for this team was instrumental. I dont know how many times he hit a huge double with runners on base and two outs. His passion fires everybody up, and he is a good leader for our young players

by Cargo5 on Oct 17, 2009 11:20 AM MDT reply actions  

Torrealba's option is for 4 million.

That’s far too expensive, especially since we know that the team will be pushing Iannetta back into the starting role barring disaster. If Torrealba returns, it’s going to be on a lessened salary. If he gets starter money from anybody, he’s gone.

by WolfMarauder on Oct 17, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Iannetta is going to have to earn back that starting job.

I can’t see Tracy just handing it to him. So keeping Torrealba to me seems like the right move.

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

i can

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 17, 2009 1:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Based on what....?

Ianetta lost the job. Why wouldn’t he have to earn it back?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed 100%...

I still have trouble believing that after all those big hits Torrealba got in September and October so many seem so eager either to let him walk or automatically relegate him to second string in 2010. It makes no sense to me; you win the job on what you do on the field and Torrealba produced at the plate.

by moose14 on Oct 17, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

The beat writers that follow the team and know what is going on inside

have all pretty much sated that Iannetta is the #1 going into spring training regardless if Yorvit comes back or not. I am pretty inclined to believe that Renck and Ringolsby know what the deal is.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Plus iannetta was better in a bad year than yorvit in a season that he had the best two months of his life. Iannetta has more talent. I love yorvit for all he did, but let’s not pretend he is the better catcher. You put your best talent on the field

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 17, 2009 4:30 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

You know I agree with you

I was just trying to keep my original argument to Hawpe and Atkins, because the Catcher situation is so touchy around here.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

If the talent is not producing, how talented is it?

Not trying to be cute. I’m asking seriously. Talent on paper doesn’t mean anything if you can’t apply it. Look at CarGo in May and June.

How can you prove which is the better catcher? Iannetta did not throw out runners at that much higher of a rate than Torrey, and he went flat out cold.

What are the other measures of which is the better catcher? How a game is called.? How is that measured?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 17, 2009 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

"talent not producing"

That’s what’s funny. Iannetta finished with a wOBA of about 30 points higher than torrealba for the season. That’s a large difference – go 30 points in the other direction and you’re in Raul ibanez Seth smith territory. Iannetta DID produce more than Torre, unless you focus only on the last couple months or just batting average, which is just short sighted. Iannetta had a bad year and still was much better, and he has a better history. He is the most talented anyway you alive it

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 17, 2009 5:49 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is there any way

that this blog can get away from the Ianetta is greatest ever threads?

He’s clearly not. He hits a few home runs. Big whooop. He has an average arm. He has a terrible batting average, and lost his job this year.

Could he rebound? Could he improve? Sure, he still has upside potential. But he’s not a catching god. I’m getting tired of the no stop trying to sell Iannetta as the 2nd coming on this blog. Personally I think he sucks, and would hate to see him as gifted the #1 catcher next year, based on what he’s done so far in his career.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 17, 2009 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

might as well give up

this blog is #1: GO ROCKIES. #2: GO CDI!. #3: SCREW YOU YORVIT!

CDI has what, 4 or 5 different nicknames here? Come on now, the Golden Chlid is unassailable.

by Teekalong on Oct 17, 2009 11:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

the nicknames

Arose for two reasons in spring training. One – he just came off a season where he LED ALL MLB CATCHERS in wOBA. Two – no one agreed on a nickname and everyone stick to their own. It was pretty much a joke. And if you’ve noticed, they have mostly disappeared

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 8:22 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't really mind

other than that some of the nicknames were pretty silly. But it is emblematic of his esteem around here. Which as you say, was well deserved coming off last year.

by Teekalong on Oct 18, 2009 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still wonder what Chris did to you to deserve all the hate

Did he eat your cat? did he kick you in the shin? what?

Other than BA and “cluchyness”, Chris was superior in all offensive stats last year, and far better in 08. That’s not even counting Torrealba’s noodle arm.

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 12:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

I have nothing personal against Iannetta

as a person.

What I have a problem is he’s average, at best, and below average mostly , yet around here, it’s constant propaganda trying to stuff him down my baseball mind as being this great “anointed one”.

And he’s not. If some one kept saying “The Royals are the best team in the AL Central” over, and over again, I think I’d be pointing it out that they aren’t, over, and over again. Would that make me a Royals hater? No. It’s the same with Iannetta.

BA is important, especially when it’s as bad as Iannetta’s. As for “superior in all offensive stats” Again, that’s not true. He had more HR’s. But he also had more GIDP, Ks, and lower average with runners in scoring position. And this compared to Torrealba, who I think should only be a back up catcher (due to his noodle arm)

You know how stupid and on going this fn debate is? I’ve got Iannetta’s page on Baseball Reference bookmarked, cause I have to use it so much to dispel the lies and propaganda to promote Iannetta agenda people have here.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 8:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

And I have his fangraph page bookmarked.

Which lists his career value just a tick under 30mil. He has a career WAR of 6.6. Career wOBA of .352.

Nobody will argue that he didn’t take a step back this year. But that doesn’t mean that he was valueless.

Whatever, we have had this argument way too many times, so lets just drop it.

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wow. I really didn't mean to start the brouhaha

I took issue with the assumption that Iannetta would just have the job handed back to him. And somewhere along the way, IMO, the tone of some responses, became “how silly that you would think otherwise”. Not everyone, just some.

CDI played his way out of the job, and Torrey played his way in. I’m sure Tracy must know all about CDI and Torrey’s respective numbers, and he determined that Torrey should start through most of the pennant race(Sept and Oct). That tells me that either he lost confidence in CDI or saw Torrey as the better option. I guess Tracy’s opinion is really the only one that matters regarding playing time. (well, mostly).

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

Take

issue with Renck – all I did was state that is what he and Ringolsby have been spouting.

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

wow...its getting kinda nasty in here

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Does it seem to you that has

been happening more and more to this Blog over the last few months?

I’m to blame myself, as if someone pushes, i’ll push back. I don’t like to be bullied or intimidated, which I feel has been happening a lot around here lately.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Playoffs and a ton of new members

might have something to do with it.

Everyone’s been analyzing stuff pretty hard lately.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure.

I do think there are some who post hyperbole and maybe its on purpose to draw in debate or garner attention.

But of late there does seem to be more of the “you’re an idiot nor you’re an idiot” tone. Maybe my perception is off.

I have to think about it a bit more…

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

*no "you're an idiot" typo...sorry

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

see this is where the discussion goes the wrong way

You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and check my words. Did I ever say iannetta was “the greatest ever”, “2nd coming” “a golden boy”, “an all star” or " a future HoFer"? I didn’t even call him a franchise catcher.

I said he was better than torrealba and that is all. That’s not a difficult thing to accomplish. Iannetta hasn’t proved he can be a top six hitter on this team, so he is hardly the second coming. But he is the best option going forward. That’s all I’m saying

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 8:15 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

actually you said
He is the most talented anyway you alive it

Sounds like you said he’s the “most talented” to me.

He’s not. He’s average….at best…and by that means, he has to rebound to be average.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

PF said that Iannetta is more talented than Torrealba...

and that by several metrics he produced better than Torrealba too.
 
The way I see it, they just don’t happen to be the metrics that you value highly so you remain skeptical of his talent and production level. Which I can understand I guess. Just don’t put words in our mouths please.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

and more talented than a guy thats virtually a career backup

Means he is god like? That’s putting words in my mouth. I don’t see the argument for more talented, but you can decide how you want

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 11:37 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

The continual proselytizing of Iannetta is the issue

The more anyONE person or a gang of people try to push him, doesn’t make it fact. Also just the overall tone not just from you but from the totality of all the ‘Iannetta is great and you are too stupid to see that" threads has gotten quite old. Those might not be the exact words, but it’s really seems that’s been the tone for a lot of people here.

My real issue (besides the fact I think it’s bunk) is that it’s being sold HARD by official PR writers. There is a “This is the company line”. But if I don’t like the company line….what am I to do? 1) continually defend the opposite view (as tiring as that may be) 2) Give up, and let a view I do not agree with become an unopposed view, and thus the accepted position 3) leave and find a place that’s not so “extreme” ?

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Iannetta might not have been "great" last year...

but he didn’t have to be to be the right option in my mind. He just has to be better than his competition (which IMO he was) and cheaper to boot.

In my opinion (and that’s all it is), almost every major league team (at least 20) would be salivating at the thought of having Iannetta be the starting catcher given his age, contract situation, and yes, production.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

There is no company line

We all happen to agree for the same reasons. Just like we all agree cargo is a better fielder than hawpe and barmes would be a better starter than quintanilla. Just because multiple agree doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 4:05 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Seconded.

Can you really imagine RG or Russ or whoever ordering the other PR staff to repeatedly argue a point with which they don’t agree? Can you imagine there ever being a necessity for such a thing?

by biondino on Oct 18, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't really have opinions

if you look over everything I’ve written since 2005.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Oct 18, 2009 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I tried to stay away from the Catcher argument.

I was just trying to chime in on what it sounds like the team is doing from the perspective of the 2 guys that know better than anyone outside of those who actually work for DOD.
But since you’ve gotten my ire up, chew on this.

2009:
Iannetta OBP .344 – OPS .804 – WAR 2.0
Yorvit OBP .351 – OPS .732 – WAR 0.8

In 89 games, CDI had 68 attempts against him with a 26% CS rate.
In just 64 games, Yorvit had 57 attempts with just a 14% CS rate.

Additionally Yorvit’s BAIBP was .355 vs a career of .298. CDI’s was .253 vs a career of .258.

Additionally if you want some info on Catcher defense, it’s kind of heady but worth the read check out devil_fingers post over at drivelinemechanics.com from a few days back. I know you may not buy the saber arguments, but this is some pretty solid stuff, and rates Iannetta as the 23rd best defensive catcher, and Torrealba the 94th best over this season.
Personally, I think that CDI outproduced Yorvit this year on all fronts.

I’m going to Blackhawk for the night so won’t respond. But i’d be happy to continue this tomorrow.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

i know

My comment wasn’t directed at you directly. I keep saying ill drop my catcher argument, but I keep getting sucked in

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 17, 2009 5:55 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Because he's good looking...

or so some here at PR think.

That’s enough for me — didn’t you go to high school?

I’m kidding of course ;)

by JaySantos on Oct 18, 2009 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Torrey is good looking too...:)P

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Iannetta is younger, better, and is more likely to perform to the level of a starting catcher than Torrealba.

The team knows this. They rode Torrealba’s hot streak while it lasted (and it seemed to help more than it hurt, though we won’t know what Iannetta would have brought to the table during that time either). But now, all bets are off.

Torrealba is expensive. A lot of players are going to be in line for raises, and every million we can save helps. Torrealba is an easy trim, an easily replaceable player, even if it is with himself at a cheaper rate.

The point is: I’m not willing to pay Torrealba 4 million dollars to play for the Rockies. If he wants to come back at a cheaper rate, I’m fine with it.

by WolfMarauder on Oct 17, 2009 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

As Yorvit Defender #1

I agree with this in principle. CDI has to be considered the guy going forward, and Yorvit’s 4M option is too much.

But I also agree wholeheartedly with SDCat. CDI has LOST HIS JOB two out of three years, and it may or may not be coincidence that those years correspond to years when Colo was good. Just handing it back to him again seems like it won’t be doing anybody any favors, including him. Whether or not Yorvit comes back, whoever is on the roster should be given a fair shake. There are several dudes on this team who deserve to be the no-questions-asked starters next year, and CDI is not among them. Here’s to hoping he finally earns it.

by Teekalong on Oct 17, 2009 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

except for the little fact that Ianetta was better than Yorvit

both offensively and defensively this year. but yea, other than that, Ianetta totally has to win the starting job back.

by Jim Jiminez on Oct 17, 2009 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

sure, sure

except for the fact that he wasn’t, we’re all good.

by Teekalong on Oct 17, 2009 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

actually he was

Unless you don’t buy ops or cs%

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 8:18 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

tell me how he wasn't

without using the terms “batting average” or “clutch.”

i’ll be waiting with bated breath.

by Jim Jiminez on Oct 18, 2009 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

You are saying of course, “tell me how Babe Ruth was a better home run hitter” with out using the words Home Run or Slugging.

Any arguement where you make the other side limit the perimeters, is to induce your predestined out come. It’s not a fair arguement/debate then.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I think he was illustrating the fact that those are the only bullets in your gun.

Batting average (especially with RISP) and veteraniness are the biggest pluses for Yorvit. We can agree that was the case in 2009, certainly.

But are those factors a) worth $4 million and b) make him worth more than Chris Iannetta, who has outperfomed Torrealba in most other rate and counting stats.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

not the only bullets but big bullets

and important ones. For JJ to dismiss them or to arbitarially not allow them for a discussion (as fn tired as it is) is wrong position to take for any discussion.

He should have just said, “I’m right, and I don’t want to know I’m wrong, especially if you are going to use facts and numbers that might prove me wrong”

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

On this I agree with you...

but that’s pretty much been your tone (and mine too) on this subject too at times.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

wrong

more like there are about 15 more important offensive metrics than batting average, and Ianetta leads Yorvit in almost all of them. Here let me make your next post for you and save you some time:

“LOL STATS NERD GO BACK TO YOUR MOMS BASEMENT”

by Jim Jiminez on Oct 18, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

"more important off. metric than BA"

um, that’s were I have an issue and where you are misleading people. BA is important.

All stats and numbers paint a picture. To dismiss one, or another because it’s a wort you do not like is to paint a false picture. To take one, or another, and say, “This is the right one” is also a disservice.

I’d like to point out, I just said this a LOT nicer than you did.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

nice blanket statement there

glad you are the arbitrator of all things, and have declared this to be true your highness.

See…..it’s this crap, I’m tired of.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well at the same time

You are not willing to acknowledge other metrics to measure performance. I’ll expand, even though you know all of this. BA doesn’t take into consideration the added value of doubles, triples, home runs or walks. Which is why I tried to “paint a picture”, a slightly more complete picture above. Which was clearly ignored by all.
I will concede you some of your points. Iannetta was not a top 10 Catcher this year, probably not top 20. I can name at least 15 guys I would rather have start at Catcher for this team. Torrealba is not one of them. I can’t find anyone’s argument in the past few months that Iannetta should have been the starter because he is the best in the league. The argument by all on the Pro-Iannetta side has been that he is better than Torrealba, which isn’t saying alot because as you say, Iannetta was not that great this year.
You seem to be trying to fight the argument that people think Iannetta is a “Super star hero”. I would be happy to retract that statement if you could show me where myself, mkorpal, Jabberwocky, RMN, PF or whoever has been trying to make that argument, feel free to link to the comments where we try and make that point. The point that we have been trying to make is that Iannetta was better than Torrealba this year, and yes people have been getting upset because valid points are being ignored.
Clearly we do not agree, and it seems unlikely that we ever will. I’m not trying to be disrespectful in any way. I realize that my visual observations of players is flawed, I miss alot. I have made an attempt to look at a broader picture and present what I see. I realize that you have been a follower of baseball much longer than I, and understand the mechanical side of the game much better than I, and I very often appreciate some of your insights you have to offer.
The main point that we do all agree on is that Iannetta should not be handed anything, and I for one sure as hell hope that he works his ass off this winter and comes ready to hit some baseballs this spring.
People were excited about Iannetta this spring, he had a great 2008, many of us expected him to take a step forward. He didn’t. He took a step back. He didn’t hit for contact. He struck out. Alot. He did however take alot of walks and hit for pretty good power. He also had some “clutch” hits, if you believe in clutch. I hope he can find some of that heading into next year.

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hizilla, to be fair, at the start of the season CDI was actually being portrayed as a superhero

And this belief/optimism lasted a long way into the season, in part because despite being disappointing, his performances were actually okay.

by biondino on Oct 18, 2009 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh I don't disagree

and to be fair, I conceded that at the beginning of the season there was alot of optimism due to 2008. He didn’t live up to the hype this year. But he was still our best Catcher.

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

The problem is

BA is the only stat that is important to you. Each time we have this argument, you always dismiss stats like OPS and all of the stats that look further into it.

Please don’t lecture us on using every stat available while you continue to ignore the ones that support Chris.

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

acutally

i prefer the split of:

BA/OBP/Slugging %

As it’s a fuller picture. And the closest one I can agree with. Some of the newer stat matrics seem to pick and choose things to be more important than other things.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fine

Lets compare the stat line (career)
Torrealba .255/.351/.380
Iannetta .242/.361/.460

so, what is your argument?

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’m saying that if you look at that line. Iannetta’s no great shakes himself.

Those numbers are surprisingly close. For the Iannetta is God people, who think Torrealba is the suckiest suck who ever sucked, they are pretty damn close. Which means….either Torrealba isn’t that bad, or Iannetta isn’t that good.

My point: Iannetta isn’t that good.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

even in the stat line

Chris is much better.

And that is not considering that BA should have a lower weight to it, considering that it is flawed (please don’t try to convince me that a single is as valuable as a home run)

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

yes Iannetta has hit for more power

That doesn’t make him “Much better”. It means “he’s pretty mediocre too, but with a little more power/pop”.

And that’s using his career stats. Using last year’s (09) stats and it looks worse for Iannetta.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well, he was in the top 10 in the majors

in OPS in 09. So, it’s not like he is mediocre. Besides, are you just going to ignore 08.

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

you have two arguements here

1) compared to other major league catchers. Which is actually a very good Pro Iannetta stance as catchers as a whole looked pretty bad in 09, (personally I think it’s due to no steroids keeping them fresh, as Catching is the most physically demanding of all the positions) which makes Iannetta look much better. It also makes Torrealba more attractive as well, (and why I think he will have a starting job some where next year. Noodle arm and all)

2) You are accusing me of picking and choosing. 08 was good & gave Rockies fans a lot of hope, (me included as I drafted Iannetta in BOTH my fantasy leagues). But 09 was a drop off. To say 08 was real and 09 was false or vice versa would be a wrong conclusion.

What could be said is Iannetta took a big step back, in 09 and there are at least question marks (in my opinion SERIOUS Q Marks) around him going forward as the Rockies catcher as it shows a trending downward. (granted it’s only 2 seasons).

Could Iannetta rebound and get better? Yes, Looking at his line of this year, with the VERY low average, and high OBP one of those WILL change. Either his average will go up or his OBP would go down. (or both)

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

seriously no one has ever said iannetta is god or anything close

Just that he is better than torrealba. Which the slash stays even near out. By the way, woba is essentially slash stats combined into one, which still show him to be better. Then consider salary and room for improvement, and that’s why you have a unanimous opinion among the writers. Not that he is god, but there are too many reasons not to go with iannetta r

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 4:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Please don’t lecture us on using every stat available while you continue to ignore the ones that support Chris

I’d like to take th moment to point out the hypocrisy of this statement. You want someone to point out why Iannetta is not the super star hero, you want him to be, by using stats that you like? While YOU (and other in the pro-Iannetta camp) ignore the ones that don’t paint him as the untouchable, never say a bad word against him or we have a 200 comment thread to shout you down all conquering hero you (and the others) want to promote?

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Redhawk: we don't think Iannetta is a super star, all conquering hero...

I don’t know where the hell you’re getting that. We acknowledge the stats that paint Iannetta in an unfavorable light and we have rationales behind why we think that they are foundationally lacking.

Looking over the thread, it seems to me like you’re the one doing most of the shouting.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

so

this blog is going to be constant proselytizing of Iannetta , with no other discussion or view point?

and I’m not shouting at all. In fact the only reason I’ve actually joined the conversation on this very worn out subject, is that there seemed to actually be some give and take, and actual discussion.

guess I was wrong. guess it’s all Ianetta all the time around here.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

you know

my real response to this would have gotten be banned.

So…I’ll leave you all,and your preconceived notions on guys that can barely hit their weight some how being great hitters.

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey Redhawk, a thought

When you were arguing how much better a hit is than a walk (a point which everyone, including the sabr boys, agreed), one of the key points in your argument was that a hit could be a single, or a double, or a homer, or could advance runners further. Well, CDI has EIGHTY POINTS more slugging power than Yorvit, but only 13 points lower an average. Doesn’t the slugging stat, even more than the average stat, reduce the power of your argument?

i.e. walks are good, hits are better, big hits are best, and CDI is in a different league from Yorvy when it comes to big hits. By rights, I make it that you should be leading the CDI charge!

by biondino on Oct 18, 2009 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

how about

he was playing in Sept, he was great. CDI didn’t play too much, he was solid when he did. Its not like they were playing side by side. Whatever, I’m done with this. Yorvit haters will get their wish soon enough, the rest of us can hope you are right with respect to CDI’s godliness.

by Teekalong on Oct 18, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

What's with your rhetoric?

You seem to be a lot pissier than the CDI defenders. I don’t see the call for it.

If you don’t believe enough in Torrealba to think they should pick up his modest option, I don’t see why you make such a fuss about people preferring CDI.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't

have any problem with people preferring CDI. My problem is, and has always been, with the ludicrously poor treatment Yorvit gets around here. The guy flatly deserves better. I don’t always agree with Redhawk but he’s right on in his argument that the pro-CDI crowd, while generally having a ton of good arguments and I generally agree with them, is often polluted by a bizarre misguided hate for a guy that has been nothing but a good teammate, and who just so happens to have some of the biggest hits in this franchise’s history.

Probably, though, most of the rhetoric is self-hatred for allowing myself to get drawn into this yet again.

One final semi-serious point: I wonder of Redhawk and I are both questioning CDI largely due to fantasy stats. He really killed me.

by Teekalong on Oct 18, 2009 6:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

He killed me too

and I’m defending him. And now that you bring that up, I’m question my defense more. Kidding. Kind of. Maybe not.

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey, I love Yorvit

He came through this year, and was an inspiration. But I know his bat will most likely be gone again, and I wonder if he is worth 4 million bucks. I don’t hate the guy at all, especially since he has been a big part of the past two postseason offenses, but again, why go with the more expensive, and probably lesser player?

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

I won't speak for the (few) other Yorvit fans

but I’m not in favor of picking up his option. I would like to see him back on the squad but for 1/2 of the price at most. As for starting, I expect CDI will be the starter but I want him to earn it.

by Teekalong on Oct 18, 2009 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

I will speak for all of the CDI fans

and say that generally we agree with you here.

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't buy those things

because I’m referring to the time frame when Yorvit took CDI’s job and never gave it back. CDI didn’t play very much. Yorvit did, and played very well.

by Teekalong on Oct 18, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

He's not $4 million fiery.

"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill

by Bryce on Oct 17, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

how about

instead of keeping our expensive, not as good players,
we play our cheaper and better players. I mean, how hard is this people?

Clever girl.

by squalene203 on Oct 17, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yorvit will get his money elsewhere.

at 31, he’s the best of the free agent lot of catchers (most are in their late 30s and just about done).

I’m OK w/giving Iannetta one more shot at the starting job, but we can’t go through another year with a catcher hitting .230 and K’ing at that rate. Don’t know what Plan B is if Yorvit goes and Chris can’t hack it…..

by BroJB on Oct 17, 2009 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

aw jeez.....

not this nonsense again.

by BroJB on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

By itself it isn't, but it is an important component of stats that do give a good measure of offensive production...

namely wOBA and OPS.

I wish Iannetta had hit for a higher average too, but at least he did something useful with his hits.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

But what did he do with his non-hits?

In Iannetta case, strike out at an alarming rate (once every 3.8 ABs). Put the ball in play and good things can happen, even if it doesn’t help your average. Walk back to the dugout with your bat on your shoulder and you’ve done nothing but help the pitcher’s stats. Power numbers are nice. Not killing rallies consistently with Ks is better.

by BroJB on Oct 18, 2009 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's certainly a valid point about the Ks...

but like in almost everything in life, it all depends on the amount of the power numbers and the Ks. For you his power/K ratio was not acceptable, for me it was.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

We should trade

Atkins for Chris Ray or someone like him.

And trade Hawpe for a couple of bullpen arms (assuming the market isn’t bullish on him)

Right now we have Betancourt and Street who are both gone after 2010. Then we have Daley, Corpas, Belisle, Flores, and Peralta. I’m really not a fan of Belisle, and I don’t think Morales should be in the bullpen… yet. I’m also opposed to giving Street and Betancourt contracts. We have some good arms in the minors and shelling out a lot of money to a closer as a mid-market team seems a little foolish.

We have Casey Weathers and Taylor Buchholz on the mend but neither can be expected to play for all of 2010. We also have Rex Brothers seemingly on the fast track to being a lefty power arm.

Assuming Weathers and Buchholz come back well, in 2011 we can look forward to a bullpen featuring them two along with Brothers and Daley. However, there is a lot of risk in this assessment. Again, assuming the market for Hawpe isn’t bullish, I don’t think he can be expected to return a player(s) of impact anywhere except in the bullpen. So unless he gets packaged with some other players for real impact talent, I don’t think flipping him for bullpen help is a bad idea.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 2:47 PM MDT reply actions  

I’ll believe an Atkins trade when I see one.
I think he’s going to be released after what PHLP posted about other teams thinking he’s fat and lazy.

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Oct 17, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I figured

Chris Ray has had a similar fall from grace so it wouldn’t be too crazy.

But Atkins is probably a good chunk of money more so it probably won’t happen.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 17, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think he's going to be non-tendered based on his salary and performance

Even if he’s not fat and lazy. Teams know the Rockies will not tender him a contract, because even if he loses in arbitration, he will still make over $5M to be at best a platoon 3B/1B. So if someone were interested, they’d just wait until he becomes a FA.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 17, 2009 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Street isn't a FA until after 2011

And in spite of the rage here i fully expect the team to sign him to a 3 year deal. Atkins is eligible for Arbitration so trading him is not an option, he will be non tendered. Hawpe is just in a situation that his 7.5 million can be better spent elsewhere.

by Roxfan24 on Oct 18, 2009 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he's a FA after 2010

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't either

though I hope he isn’t.

I guess signing him isn’t a bad move. I just don’t think it’s a smart move.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Every time someone gushes over CarGo.....

…I picture Scott Boras sitting in a darkened room uttering “Exxxxxcellent”, Montogmery Burns style.

by BroJB on Oct 17, 2009 4:13 PM MDT reply actions  

why - because beane has been so good with trades lately?

Because the A’s have been so spectacular in the last five years? Cargo may or may not be a super star, but we still look to have won that trade. I’m really beginning to trust o’dowd’ even against beane. This definitely wasn’t a neifi/dye/encarnacion/belitz/Ortiz deal.

Also, cargo improved at a lot of things that were on his list of potential bust making weaknesses

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 8:59 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

uh i dont think he was criticizing the trade or cargo

im not trying to speak for BroJB but what im guessing he meant is CarGo is a Boras client so the more people gushing over him the higher the payday CarGo will get down the road. Thus the Boras characterization

by purplesocks on Oct 18, 2009 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree

Given that Tracy has said he thinks CarGo can be a Beltran type player, I’m sure Boras has whipped up an informative monograph, “Why CarGo is Better than Carlos Beltran.”

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think this a very strong point.

One of my critcisms of Tracy is the way he tends to compare players all the time. I still think there is much more to the story of why he benched CDI.

by butterfly on Oct 18, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with you about Tracy's comparisons..

that’s always rather chapped my hide. Maybe he just does it as a point of reference..but it does grate a bit.

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

Huh?

I love CarGo. I lurve Cargo. I love the deal that brought Cargo here. I don’t give a crap about Billy Beane.

I was making a funny. All about how Scot Boras sees dollar signs whenever Cargo’s rep gets(deservedly) bigger.

That is all. Carry on.

by BroJB on Oct 18, 2009 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

i owe you an apology

I sar boras and read “beane”. Totally different.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 11:33 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

as for boras

I’m sure this year indeed made him happy re cargo. But it is not something I’m worried about. He is under control for several years, and even when he isn’t, there’s a holliday type trade to be made

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 11:39 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story

Yes I hope iannetta succeeds but a base hit in a meanlingless game is way less important than the doubles torrealba kept hitting when the game was on the line down the stretch. We need to keep him around.

by Cargo5 on Oct 17, 2009 7:22 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

Iannetta

Didn’t hit a pinch hit walkoff jack in a near must win down the stretch either. He is crap. Let’s get rid of him.
/sarcasm

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 7:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes that's true

Was an awesome moment I agree. But yorvit had about seven of those types of hits. Just not walk off

by Cargo5 on Oct 17, 2009 8:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

My point was that 7 big hits doesn’t prove that Yorvit can be a better producer over 150 games.

by Hizilla on Oct 17, 2009 9:36 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Are u saying we should let yorvit go?

Or just begin next season with chris as the starter? If ianneta has no competition(assuming torrealba leaves) then what happens if and when he struggles? Who comes in? Probably not paul phillips, but I don’t know

by Cargo5 on Oct 18, 2009 12:06 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yorvit will not be on this team

if the price tag is 4 mil 1.5-2 maybe, This is what got us in this contract to begin with. We got all excited during the last month of 07 and signed him, then he came out in 08 and hit 223 the first 2 months of 08’. The guy is a solid backup but not at 4 mil. Considering the prospects that keep getting closer to the big league level, i have no problem with Chris being the starter and catching 140 games. It is fish or cut bait time. But I have a feeling that he will be the .260-.270 20 HR 20 Dble guy and bat 6th or 7th.

by Roxfan24 on Oct 18, 2009 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nope not at all.

I really hope there is another catcher in camp that can push Iannetta for the starting job. Anything to make the team better. I just don’t think Yorvit is worth $4mil. I sincerely hope that they can bring him back for a reasonable amount for a backup catcher. And whoever proves that they can be the better producer over a 162 game season (more like 130 for a catcher) should be the starter. Yorvit had a couple “clutch” hits down the stretch, but that doesn’t prove that he can produce better than other catchers on the roster over a full season (because he didn’t)

by Hizilla on Oct 18, 2009 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I really hope there is another catcher in camp that can push Iannetta for the starting job

But to do that the player that is brought in will be or close to being a major league starter at catcher. And if he’s that level he (who ever that might be) will be making about 4 mill/year or so (I’d think)

Yorvit Torrealba is my daddy! (metaphorically speaking, please don't kidnap me, as no one will pay and I eat a lot so there goes the profit margin)

by Redhawk on Oct 18, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

I doubt the backup in 2010 will "push" Chris

It will be a Phillips, Ausmus type who can catch 20-30 games for 200-500k.

by Roxfan24 on Oct 18, 2009 4:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

ausmus

intriguing

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Oct 18, 2009 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

I got it!

I think we can all agree to this plan, even though it requires that Hawpe be traded to free up some salary:

Hawpe + Corpas to some rich team for middling prospects. Hawpe is sacrificed to dump Corpas’s salary and save money. This saves about $10M in 2010.

Stewart (+ Barmes if necessary) to Angels for Howie Kendrick.

Using money saved in the Hawpe deal, sign 3B Chone Figgins

Using the rest of the money saved in the Hawpe deal towards extending Torrealba’s deal

Iannetta (+ non-descript prospect?) to MIN for C Jose Morales. Might need a 3rd team to take Iannetta and send someone to MIN in this one.

So, the typical lineup would be:

Figgins 3B
Kendrick 2B
Helton 1B
Tulo SS
Gonzalez RF
Torrealba C
Smith LF
Fowler CF

You could swap Kendrick and Fowler if you were trying to get more of a running game going. Morales (.311 in 2009) is a switch hitter and can spell Torrealba against some righties.

Using EY2 as a supersub, this lineup vastly increases team speed, and replaces the low-average, watch-strike-3 guys with a bunch of guys who put the ball in play.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 17, 2009 10:18 PM MDT reply actions  

fail

So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah!
-Lloyd

by squalene203 on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Some of your idea makes sense

But I just don’t think its a good idea to move stewart. The guy is young, plays great defense, and can hit the ball out of the park. Yes, he does need to improve his hitting, and stop striking out! But getting rid of him is just the wrong move. Also, I think we should keep corpas and betancourt

by Cargo5 on Oct 18, 2009 12:13 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I never said we should get rid of iannetta

I just said we should attempt to kepp torre around, even though this will be difficult with the contract issue. I just stated that it would be the wrong move to just hand chris the job with no real competition. Or maybe we could find a legit backup in the free agent market.

by Cargo5 on Oct 18, 2009 12:30 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

No to both Angels

0% chance we have the money needed to sign Figgins. He’s going to get $8 MM or more per season from a big market team. And I don’t want Kendrick. Way too much of a free swinger. There are better 2B options out there. Really, Barmes should be the super sub to spell Stewart against lefties and play 2B occasionally.

Also, I know this is a “reply fail,” but to the person further up the board who thinks we can just dump some of our leftovers on the Reds for Brandon Phillips… please don’t talk about video game trades like that. Saying “Dan O’Dowd needs to get this done” in that instance is like saying “Hawpe and Helton to the Cardinals for Pujols… Dan O’Dowd needs to get this done!”

Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.

by BrandonHawpe on Oct 18, 2009 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think people know my position on this

but trading Stewart and Iannetta is just an awful awful idea. I’m not proclaiming them as golden boys, but both have tons of raw skill and power, are great on defense, and are controllable for the next 3-4 years I believe?

I almost get the vibe that you want this team to employ the philosophy of the Angels team; now is that a bad idea? No, they are a regular 95 win team, but trying to make a sudden shift like that to just go all out on subtracting K’s and sacrificing walks and our homegrown talent for that either means we’re rebuilding, or panicking because of recent events over the season. Seriously, this is a talented team that is just getting better. Stop complaining people about the K’s, if we’re a playoff team with a bright future, I’ll take it.

Impossible not to have positive thoughts.

I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.

by bballrox4717 on Oct 18, 2009 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Here's the reasoning

Too many strikeouts. This team will get base hits and steal bases. It will be like the ’82 Cardinals.

I’m not sure Figgins is going for $8M. Maybe. But he’s worth it for the speed, and after the salary dumps, we can afford it. I recognize though, that much of the plan hinges on signing him as a FA, and that leaves a lot out of the Rockies’ control. The Angels might not even let him go, for instance.

Maybe we could get more for Stewart due to his youth and talent, but I was trying to be conservative.

As for Kendrick being a “free swinger,” uh, the man has a lifetime .300 average. I’ll take that over Barmes, Stewart and Iannetta’s high K rates anyday.

Kendrick and Figgins have higher OBP’s than the guys they’re replacing. You lose a small chance at that in Iannetta, but with Torrealba and Morales…well, let’s not repeat the CDI-Torrealba debates.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

I never said anything bad about Kendrick or Figgins, in fact, I like them immensely

However, getting both is kind of unrealistic, unless we do trade Stewart, which again, is kind of stupid. The main problem with the strikeouts was the approach. In many cases, the K’s were not a result of being unable to make contact, it was going down looking on the third strike. It seems that these hitters are trained to wait for their pitch, and if they don’t get get it, attempt to walk. When the hitters got their pitch, or something they believed was hittable, most of them made swings for the fences. In fact, the biggest examples of this was WITH Stewart, Atkins, Hawpe, and Iannetta. All 4 of them have shown the ability to mash in the past, and with Don Baylor as the hitting coach, all four of them showed some regression from last year. I actually took up some splits with Stewart, turns out he was hitting a lot more when he was aggressive. Some of these hitters need to ditch Helton’s patient approach and take their own, like Tulo, Torrealba and CarGo. So what does this all mean, the regression being connected with the more patient approach? The Rockies need a new hitting coach, one who gives them more freedom to do what they can at the plate instead of taking such a calculated approach towards hitting.

Also, the OBP is not much of big deal when you put OPS instead, since the baseball world more or less revolves around that way more than OBP. Using OPS into use, Stewart is about the same as Figgins, and while he will never have his speed and his defense isn’t up to Figgin’s level yet, it has the ability to be, and Stewart is just 24. He has the potential to be hitting 30-40 HR’s with elite defense each year, which is way more valuable than a speedy hitter who’s game revolves around OBP. Did I mention Stewart is cheaper and we’re guaranteed to have him for 4 more years?

With Barmes, we all more or less know that if he wants to stay with us for much longer, he must be more consistent with hitting and gain some more OBP. He does play gold glove defense, better than Kendrick’s, but his approach is plain awful, and needs a change. Kendrick would be a much better upgrade at the plate, and would regress somewhat on the field, but getting a hitter who nearly won a batting title last year and hit .359 in the second half is unrealistic and requires trading someone like Stewart, Fowler, or Chacin, which we should not be doing.

Impossible not to have positive thoughts.

I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.

by bballrox4717 on Oct 18, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of getting

Figgins. He’s awesome and all that but our contract for him would just be what 4 or 5 years on the wrong side of 30? With Fowler, Cargo, and to a lesser extent EYj we have good speed. I also don’t think he’s a defensive upgrade over Stewart.

As for Kendrick, the time to acquire him was probably after 2008.

The strikeouts are annoying but Stewart didn’t really strike out that much in the minors. Another of his problems is his low line-drive rate. I wonder if it’s possible for him to improve low LD rate.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

One thing I find interesting

everyone wants to dump Corpas. Despite the fact that he is to Buckholtz what Iannetta is to Yorvit. Corpas’ talent is BIG TIME. His stuff is legit. But for some reason, we want him gone. But we want CDI to stay, because his talent is so much better than Yorvit. Which it is. But why the difference in approach? Either talent matters, or it doesn’t.

by Teekalong on Oct 17, 2009 11:52 PM MDT reply actions  

I think it's mostly

the prospect of paying him big money in the next few years. His salary is manageable now, but it won’t be for long, especially if he continues to fail. As it is now, he has little value on the market. So, I imagine the plan is to see if he can’t build value with a solid start to the season.

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 12:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think the money is the issue

Though PF has a good pt below about the disadvantage of selling low (and I have no idea what twisted idea Renck might have in mind). Seems likely no one would take him, or would require taking on a contract in return given that his last two years have been some combo of subpar/injured.

He has a buyout after 2011, so they don’t have to worry about him making closer money. So they’re on the hook for 2 yrs, $6.5M.

As Latrock says below, with Street’s raise, and the wish to sign Betancourt, that could mean $16M for 3 relievers in 2010. That’s probably close to their entire bullpen expenditure in 2009. It’s a tough call for a team that doesn’t want to raise payroll in 2010.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

i actually want to keep corpas

As trading him would be a sell low move and I’m not sure we could get equal value for him. As for your last statement, nothing is that black and white. There are always other variables. In this case, its salary. Going away from corpas and Torre would be driven in part by their relatively high salaries. I want corpas, but I recognize the salary might be too much of an issue

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 18, 2009 9:17 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I was also pondering the "trade Corpas" statement...

If we decide to keep Bettancourt, extend (or keep) Street and keep Corpas, that’s a truck load of money for 3 bullpen arms which a mid market team like the Rox can’t really afford. But I think the best idea would be to keep them all, have Corpas pitch next year and see if he can regain ‘07 form and then make a decision mid 2010. If we’re in it, 3 quality arms in the bullpen don’t hurt. If we’re not trade 2 of them and get something good back.
I agree that relievers are mercurial at best, but that’s the same reason why I don’t think you trade them in the offseaon.

BTW, Corpas is leaving soon to go pitch in the Dominican so we could get a decent idea of where he’s at.

by Latrock on Oct 18, 2009 9:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't want to trade Corpas. I also don't think that we should pick up Betancourt's option...

paying $5 million for middle relief is not something the Rockies can afford to do given their economic situation. The Street extension is something that I can live with, but I detest the policy of giving any relief pitcher several million dollars a year. Back-end relievers are grossly overpaid and I’d prefer that the Rockies didn’t join the trend.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

It's weird because I agree with you

in that I’d prefer if we didn’t pick up Betancourt’s option and I really don’t want us to extend Street. But losing Betancourt does make our bullpen a lot crappier this year, and if we don’t sign Betancourt and move Hawpe and drop Atkins, who exactly do we spend all this freed money on? I don’t think we need to sign any FA position players so then it becomes relievers and starters. Signing a reliever is probably just dumb since we’d pay more money than just taking Betancourt’s option and we have a (hopefully) good bullpen in the making. So then it becomes sign a starter.

I’m not sure how good this is unless we can sign a starter who just has something to prove and isn’t looking for a long-term deal – Bedard, Harden, Sheets, Tim Hudson, Brandon Webb – and that’s assuming Hudson and Webb don’t have their options exercised or whatever.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Relievers...

I imagine they’ll spend some money on relievers, since O’Dowd doesn’t seem to eschew the FA market for them completely. The problem with Jabberwocky’s idea is that there’s the chance of ending up with the bullpen we had in the first half. It would be nice to have 3-4 good pre-arb guys you can rely on every year, but it doesn’t seem many teams are able to produce that consistently.

If they can’t find suitable FA targets in the starting pitching or infield depth dept’s, then they’ll probably hang onto Hawpe unless overwhelmed by an offer. Seems like there’s some indication (e.g., Ringolsby) that the org would prefer to keep Hawpe if it can.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

I really hope they trade Hawpe

This just seems like the type of opportunity teams have so infrequently a good bat with trade value and where losing him does nothing to hurt the team.

If we can trade Hawpe for some relievers and then sign a FA starter we’ll be good (or at least I think so)

I just don’t want everyone to forget how we thought we were good going into 2008 with Francis, Cook, Ubaldo, Morales, and like Greg Reynolds – optimism clouded the true state of affairs.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

We spend the freed money on arbitration raises for the 10 or so cases we'll have.

As for creating a pre-arb bullpen, that’s why we have high upside starting prospects…ease them into the majors and in so doing have our best arms in the majors. This wouldn’t work for the full season, just the end game in September.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Oct 18, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

and the draft!!

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Oct 18, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

I totally disagree back of the BP wins you games

Our BP rarely got to street early in the season. The combo of Daley/Belisle in the 7th Betencourt in the 8th Street in the ninth was huge.

by Roxfan24 on Oct 18, 2009 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

prospects in the pen

It certainly can be done. Most wouldn’t be in a position to help in April, but I imagine they’re trying to work towards that in the future.

I think FA’s can help bridge the gaps. I agree, though, that spending $15-16M for Street/Betancourt/Corpas wouldn’t be good given the likely payroll level. I have a feeling they’ll try to bring Betancourt back, though.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

Are you serious?

Except for 07, Corpas has looked like the most hittable pitcher in the league. His slider is flat, his fastball struggles to break 90, and he doesn’t have anything else. Buccholz, on the other hand, has a mid nineties fastball and that huge, hard curve. I think 07 Corpas was a fluke, while 08 Buccholz was a good measure of his ability. But this is just what I see; if we keep Corpas, I will be thrilled if he reprises 07. I just doubt it. And I don’t want to gamble the money he would be earning on it

So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah!
-Lloyd

by squalene203 on Oct 18, 2009 6:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Has anyone mentioned

that Iannetta is better than Torrealba?

Anyone?

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Oct 18, 2009 3:56 PM MDT reply actions  

are you being funny? or haven't read the thread?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

You’re sarcasm alarm should’ve been going off loudly…

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Oct 18, 2009 6:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

I thought so, but I've been really wrong about that before...:)

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

So, hey,

if any one posts about Chris Iannetta or Yorvit Torrealba after this comment, I am going to ban you. Am I joking? Find out. . . .

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Oct 18, 2009 7:33 PM MDT reply actions  

By after, I mean from now until spring training.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Oct 18, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

I know his name

I just can’t remember his characters name?

by mkorpal on Oct 18, 2009 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Christopher Turk

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh dear.

You just said Christopher.

Never give up, never surrender.

by coolopotamus on Oct 18, 2009 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

There are alot of people named Christopher...

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

If this is a joke, I'm not getting it.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Oct 18, 2009 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I just had a random idea in head....

I wonder if a Clint Barmes for JJ Hardy move would make much sense? I know a defensive combination of Tulo and Hardy would make people drool, and besides his bad year, has been a really good bat looking like it can rebound.

Impossible not to have positive thoughts.

I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.

by bballrox4717 on Oct 18, 2009 8:23 PM MDT reply actions  

He does have a career .325 wOBA

He’s never played 2B, however.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Oct 18, 2009 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Barmes seemed to make the switch fine

Impossible not to have positive thoughts.

I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.

by bballrox4717 on Oct 19, 2009 4:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

point

but at the same time, Barmes didn’t have a promised starting job after 06, he had to do some dancing in AAA in 2007 to figure stuff out. Hardy’s always been the starting 2B.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Oct 19, 2009 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

It would make great sense for us

Why would the Brewers not laugh at the offer, though?

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 9:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that post afterwards

And thinking that it wouldn’t make sense, unless we offered like Esmil Rogers for him, then traded Barmes elsewhere for an Atkins replacement…..the thought came up while I was attempting to see who would jump at a Barmes acquisition.

Impossible not to have positive thoughts.

I want Sam Deduno to pitch already.

by bballrox4717 on Oct 19, 2009 4:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Is anybody watching tonight's game?

If so what the heck are they chanting when Manny is batting?

Dear Rockies - 2009 NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season. Can't wait to do it again next year!!

Troy Tulowitzki - THE best SS in the game..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - En Fuego!! (when hitting 6th or 7th)
Brad Hawpe- Big Bad Brad, I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utley's in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Oct 18, 2009 8:29 PM MDT reply actions  

So, is

Paul Phillips going to be the starter or is he relegated to back-up?

cat, not watching the game. I’m still not ready to watch baseball.

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Oct 18, 2009 8:45 PM MDT reply actions  

Ha

If a Phillips > Unnameable faction starts up, I’ll ban myself.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Oct 18, 2009 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

me too.

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Oct 18, 2009 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

I do agree with Renck about the length of the season.

World Series baseball in November is nuts. I like his idea about fewer off-days (like the Players Assoc. will ever go for that) and a number of day/night double headers.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby

by pedalpusher on Oct 18, 2009 10:29 PM MDT reply actions  

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  16. Chris Nelson, SS/2B
  17. Casey Weathers, RHP
  18. Chaz Roe, RHP
  19. Kiel Roling, 1B
  20. Delta Cleary, OF
  21. Matt Reynolds, LHP
  22. Jordan Pacheco, C
  23. Cole Garner, OF
  24. Eliezer Mesa, OF
  25. Ethan Hollingsworth, RHP
  26. Edgmer Escalona, RHP
  27. Scott Beerer, OF
  28. Darin Holcomb, 3B
  29. Ben Paulsen, 1B
  30. Andrew Johnston, RHP
updated 5/15/2010


Managers

Redrocks_small Russ Oates

Rox_girl_small Rox Girl

Staff

Reynolds_small Silverblood

Crow_small Andrew Martin

Jeff_aberle_small Jeff Aberle

Poison-the-well-the-tropic-rot_small Bryan Kilpatrick

67880020--bled-slovenia_small Andrew T. Fisher

Ip_small WolfMarauder