Thursday Rockpile: Rockies close to deal with Jim Tracy, negotiating with Huston Street and Rafael Betancourt among others
Okay, so from Troy E. Renck's article about the state of Jim Tracy's contract negotiations, which currently seems to be pointing to a three year extension, there are several other tidbits, most of which we already knew but with a little more detail added:
- Dan O'Dowd will likely get an extension for at least as long, which would leave the team's leadership in place through at least the 2012 season.
- The Rockies want to retain Rafael Betancourt and Yorvit Torrealba, but not at the salary of their 2010 team options ($5.4 million and $4 million, respectively) meaning both options are going to be declined. The new bit of information seems to be that in order to retain Betancourt, the team might be amenable to a multi-year deal, but the same isn't suggested with Torrealba.
- Torrealba "isn't guaranteed" a starting position over Chris Iannetta, and may look at the free agent market for a deal. Even without Torrealba, it's looking like a relatively robust catching market this season, with several free agent options and a couple of trade possibilities such as Arizona's Chris Snyder for teams to choose from, so I like the Rockies chances of either being able to retain Yorvit at a lower cost than his option, or get an adequate replacement if they can't.
- The Rockies want to lock in Huston Street and Clint Barmes to multi-year deals, and have already put an offer on the table for Street.
Renck also gives a World Series notes column with a few of the Rockies picks for the WS.
***********
Inside the Rockies has some interesting notes lately too:
The Rockies draft was rated number one by Baseball America. Tyler Matzek, Nolan Arenado and Chris Balcom-Miller seemed to be a big help for this initial ranking. If Rex Brothers and Tim Wheeler start showing what they're capable of in their first full seasons in 2010, we'll know that the ranking was justified.
Tracy Ringolsby gives his take on the above options decisions, as well as the two more obvious declines with Jason Giambi and Alan Embree, and says that the offer to Betancourt will likely be for two years.
He also notes that the situation for left handed relief for the Rockies to start 2010 will likely be a combination of Franklin Morales, Randy Flores and prospect Matt Reynolds rather than Joe Beimel. Retaining Flores would involve dealing with arbitration, but he's never made more than $800,000 in any season, and is coming off of a season where he only threw 12 MLB innings on a $600,000 contract, so it could probably be expected for him to sign somewhere in that range. All three combined will likely cost less than the $2.25 million that Embree made in 2009, and the full season savings should be better spent retaining Street and Betancourt. As for performance, Flores' career splits vs left handed batters aren't that far off of Beimel's, and while Embree's career against them has been solid, he imploded against left handers for the Rockies in 2009 before a line drive to leg cost him much of the season. It's easy to see how cheap is the preferable course for the Rockies here.
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Last lefty to hit 2 HRs off a lefty in the postseason?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
postseasonWorld Series
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
An orphan..
from Baltimore?
Order a Rocktober t-shirt in time for the playoffs and donate to charity at:
Purple Row Cares
Ummmm...
He wasn’t an orphan. Just abandoned by his dad.
"There's nothing bad that accrues from baseball." — Bart Giamatti
by Nominal Egg on Oct 29, 2009 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I get nervous
committing so many resources to bullpen guys. I know it’s Street and Betancourt, but is it such a good idea to tie up so much of the team budget on these two, along with Corpas?
Alternative?
If you push the numbers around, I think you can swing it. It would help to get Betancourt down from $5.4M to $4M or less if they could swing a 2 yr deal. (Though I’m not sure which part of it you’re objecting to. Street seems riskier to me if ownership won’t keep bumping payroll up, since substantially more money would be involved, and likely more years as well.)
What do you envision otherwise, and how do you use the money the money you’ve saved? It’s also possible to be against expensive bullpens in general, but for signing these two guys at this time. What do you do if you have again have a rotation and starting lineup that is playoff-qualtity but your bullpen is holding you back?
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Agree
Not sure back end of the bullpen is where you go cheap
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
at least not now
when presumably you have the payroll for it, and have a team you expect (rather than hope) to contend again. It could also buy a year or two to sort out some of the injuries and minor league arms.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I am against expensive bullpens in general
high risk, high reward.
But if there are two guys I want tied up for the next two years, it is Street and Betancourt. I am just voicing a concern about tying up $15m/year on three bullpen guys.
To be clear, I like the moves with these two particular players, I am just nervous about the overall strategy in general.
I'm not for or against expensive bullpens
and it goes without saying I’m all for “good” bullpens. It seems to me that we’re not talking major commitments here, and I think we need to keep these guys around if possible. I certainly recognize the risk, but as we’ve discussed, the window for this team is right now and we need to do whatever we can to improve. As someone else noted, the bully is arguably one of our only potential weaknesses but it could be a strength. Street/Betancourt/Morales with healthy Buck and Corpas? That is a ton of high-end talent, to say nothing for potential guys like Weathers and steady guys like Daley. The Dodgers basically used a dominating bully to cover their rotation issues, if we have as good of a rotation as I expect plus a great bully, we can really feel strong going into next year.
We do have a lot of live arms
Okay, you sold me on the “dominant bullpen” idea. Sign them both for the next two years and bring up Weathers (if healthy).
Anyone with thoughts on Deduno as a bullpen guy next year?
Maybe later in the season...
I think you’ll see Deduno and Rogers getting some MLB innings in relief after the All-Star break. I think Chacin and Friedrich will be the team’s main backup starters at that point, with the two Gregs being possibilities as well.
Rogers could be an MLB starter, but who do you bump from the Rockies rotation for him?
I think Chacin will have more value as a starter than him, Friedrich as well, I’d rather those guys get the starter innings if we’re talking about what helps the team most in 2010.
Friedrich a backup starter?
The guy hasn’t even pitched in AA yet. Not that I don’t think he’ll be good, I just worry he’ll be Reynolds 2.0.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions
He's Reynolds 2.0 just because he was drafted by the Rockies?
Great comp there, you should go into scouting, you have a real talent for it. The two pitchers have almost nothing in common, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there. High level prospects are always going to be the post All-Star break backups for mid revenue teams, Friedrich and Chacin are the Rockies two best pitching prospects and both will be within call-up distance of Denver whether it’s at C. Springs or Tulsa.
I’m more concerned about him being brought up too early; Reynolds had the injury problem, but he also wasn’t ready for the majors, and we brought him up out of necessity – or so it appeared to me in 2008. I’d hate to see Friedrich come up before he’s ready, get shelled, and have it stunt his growth or something.
I mean, if he dominates the Texas league, sure, tell him to keep his phone on loud. I just figure we have a lot invested in him, there isn’t much need to rush him.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm going with Teekalong and others on this,
I know I’d be a lot more nervous going with an all freely available talent bullpen like the saber crowd typically seems to prefer, particularly given that it would involve a lot of unknown young players like Weathers or Reynolds. Paying Street and Betancourt does put a large portion of the team’s salary on 120 innings, but the peace of mind of having solid options for those high leverage situations is worth it, in my opinion. If we weren’t contending, it would probably be a different story, but right now, I think we have to pay for some stability back there.
Exactly
I think there is some value to a perceived stability in the bullpen, and obviously a ton of value for real stability. I think its worth the risk. Easy for me to say, but it doesn’t seem like we’ll be taking money from other ventures (big FAs, etc) so to me it makes a lot of sense.
I'm really against expensive bullpens...and I'd for that reason I'd rather have Beimel back at a lower price
than Betancourt even at $4 million.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Betancourt is a far superior pitcher to Beimel
Far far far far.
Raffy was worth $6.4M in 2009, $4.7 to the Rockies alone.
We’re not talking about giving out a KRod or Mariano contract here. I mean, we’re not even talking Fuentes money.
Also, it’s not as if Street and Betancourt are Manny Corpas with less than 2 years MLB experience getting a long term contract. They’re relatively proven relief pitchers who’ve historically done a good job at what they’ve done.
Not extending Raffy and Street and relying on a relatively unproven bullpen is just saving money for the sake of saving money. We can afford the ’03 Passat and the ’05 M3, why are we settling for an ’02 Chevy Metro?
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions
(I want Beimel back as well)
( /listens to God’s Gonna Cut You Down)
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think we (as in the ownership group) can/will afford it though, and that's what I'm saying.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Oct 30, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm of the impression that the ownership has tasted success
and made moves to maintain said success, and won’t be nearly as skittish about spending. Not like OMG METS or anything, but letting a few more bats flutter out of the billfold.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I am fine signing Street and Betancourt to multiyear deals.
Our bullpen is our weakest spot right now, and we need all the help we can get. If it takes a multiyear deal to keep Betancourt here, for example, I say commit. We really don’t need a lot of money to go off signing expensive free agents this year, so a couple extra million in the budget isn’t going to be taking anything else away.
As for Corpas, he may be traded.
by Greg Stanwood on Oct 29, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
After observing the post-Rockies postseason
I am quite certain that a very, very good team beat us. Say, the team that has a shot at repeating a WS championship, which is kind of hard to do.
….and yes, it’s midterm season. You mean you noticed I’m not making a lot of sense?
Carlos Gonzalez is a sexy man
No kidding
part of the reason that I was able to deal with the Rox loss as well as I did was the realization, early, that the Phillies are really a ridiculously good team. And gotta give them credit for adding two bigtime impact guys (Ibanez and Lee) to a defending title team. Great moves, great players. Fun to watch.
Agree completely
and I hope if the Rockies are in position to make a Cliff Lee type deal next summer they do it. Can’t rest on our laurels.
There is another side to that coin though
Just ask Cardinal fans about what they gave up for Matt Holliday
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 29, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
please elaborate
I honestly (not sarcastically) am not sure what direction you’re taking this in.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
What I was trying to get at was the dangers of making a big trade before the deadline
Cliff Lee was a great move for the Phils and I’m all for trying to improve the team at the deadline, but I think we have to remember that you can also end up like the Cardinals where you give up a good prospect like Brett Wallace for two months of Holliday without ever winning a playoff game.
I think the Holliday move was a good one for the Cards. It just didn’t work out and now they have lost a good prospect.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 30, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
ah
I’d disagree as to “didn’t work out” because getting to the postseason is key. Winning is a crapshoot.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
They were going to get in anyway though
It was the Cubs chasing them.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 30, 2009 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
Although it was close when they traded for him
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 30, 2009 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
agreed, that sealed the deal
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I have no respect for the Cubs
And I mean none at all.
As much as I hate the Yankees and everything they stand for, I still have to respect them somewhat. The Cubs are a dreadful organization with pitiful and obnoxious fans who want you to believe that they love their team more because of all the suffering they have had to endure.
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 30, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Jim Hendry should be fired
out of a cannon
into the sun
seriously, he’s awful. Just….just awful.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
The Phillies are so good I'm starting to actually like them.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Not opposed to
Betancourt if it’s like a 2 year deal.
Still don’t like locking up Street, still think we don’t have the payroll to be giving serious money to closers (with injury history). On the plus side, Street is really young.
And generic no to Barmes sentiment…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
You make it sound like we will pay him 20 mila year.
He’s going to make8 next year already from Arb. a 3 year deal for 26 mil isn’t a bad thing. As far as injury I think a lot of the A’s stuff was BS. he missed a few weeks here but I don’t see another cheaper option. Corpas and/or Morales are not up to the task. 35 of 37. Plus I would rather not rush guy coming off injury back if we don’t have to.
We won't pay him 20 mil a year
But I’m wary of having one tenth of the payroll invested in a guy with an injury history, who will provide 70~ innings a year, and when most teams recently have made it apparent that you don’t need to pay big bucks for an effective closer.
It’s not that I don’t think that Street, if healthy will provide 8+ million in value, it’s just that I think we can find a guy somewhere between now and 2011 who will provide 8+ million in value for a couple of million less in actual salary.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't see much difference
in 6 mil a year and 8mil. A 3 year deal that pays him 7 mil/7.75 mil/8.5 mil should get it done.
I was thinking more of
like a Joakim Soria/ Andrew Bailey situation where the salary is like under a million. But really, at the end of the day I don’t mind having Street around. I just think we could make a smarter move elsewhere.
I’d also rather them sign Street and not do something like extend Barmes but whatever, I don’t make any decisions.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yeah, we tried that
Manny Corpas rhp
4 years/$8.025M (2008-11), plus 2012, 2013 club options
* 4 years/$8.025M (2008-11), plus 2012, 2013 club options
o signed extension with Colorado 2/28/08
o $0.2M signing bonus
o 08:$0.575M, 09:$0.75M, 10:$2.75M, 11:$3.5M, 12:$6M club option ($0.25M buyout), 13:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout)
o escalators may increase:
+ 2011 salary by $1M to $4.5M
+ options by $1M each to $7M in 2012 and $9M in 2013
* 1 year/$0.382M (2007)
o re-signed by Colorado 3/07
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Uh is that for or against what I said?
Doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
We did get a little trigger happy that offseason with locking up young talent.
Also, if Corpas can come back from his injury, though he wasn’t the shutdown closer he appeared, the peripherals are there.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
true enough
I guess I’m just saying “don’t lock up young relief talent” and I qualify “young” by means of “inexperienced”
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think this is such a bad contract
But I also don’t think it’s necessary and considering injury just seems like an unnecessary risk for something that probably wouldn’t be too expensive anyway. so yea.
I guess one of the only good things is that you can do that and then trade the reliever by saying look, shiny new young reliever signed to a pretty contract!
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I don't think any team will want a reliever with guaranteed money
unless you have someone at the Elite level of Huston Street, proved over several seasons, you just don’t lock up young relief talent. There’s always a Matt Daley waiting somewhere.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
there IS always a Matt Daley waiting somewhere
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
waiting.....and watching
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yea the more I think about it
the Corpas contract probably won’t go down as a major blunder (thanks Zito!) but it really doesn’t make sense.
The Rockies were just young… young and proud, wanted to make a statement…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
I'm just glad Ubaldo signed essentially the same contract
This hereby states that Manuel Corpas Ubaldo Jimenez will…
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Oct 30, 2009 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I truly hope we were that lazy
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
Yes, very good
Joel Peralta was also outrighted, and became a FA.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Yeah, but for how long?
The Rockies want to lock in Huston Street and Clint Barmes to multi-year deals…
Oh, right. Crap.
are you a different Muzia?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 29, 2009 11:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah, same one
I just decided to stop giving people “my digits”
C’mon, two Muzia’s out there who care about Rockies baseball?
I'm changing my name to a variant of Muzia just because you said that.
by Greg Stanwood on Oct 29, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
You can be named Art!
I want to name my first child Art Muzia.
Now I just need to find a woman to go along with it…
Importer/Exporter
To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 29, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Second child named Science?
"There's nothing bad that accrues from baseball." — Bart Giamatti
by Nominal Egg on Oct 29, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
but if its a girl, you will have to go with Esther E.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 29, 2009 12:30 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I have always thought so too
But admittedly part of that is because my grandfather married a woman named Esther a month after my grandma died. Maybe not exactly a month
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Oct 29, 2009 1:59 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a great old-person name
I imagine that people just change their name to “Esther” or “Franklin” after they turn 55.
So is Morales going to get better with age?
I'm still hoping to wake up from that nightmare I had about the 9th inning of Game 4.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Oct 29, 2009 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, we signed him in 2002
Which means he’s been going by “Franklin” for 7 years, which would put him at like 62 years old.
Since he’s not a knuckleballer, I’m afraid we’ve seen the best out of Ol’ Frankie Mo – it’s just unrealistic to expect a breakout year from a 62 year old pitcher.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
awww poor Q!! I like him always have..great glove...
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
maybe clint barmes will learn how to hit the outside pitch.
He might actually be really good if he did that. But he is kind of an old dog to be learning new tricks.
Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But if you never quit *and* never win, you are an idiot
I'd prefer if he just learn to not swing at the outside pitch.
especially the ‘foot’ outside pitch.


















