Jim Tracy wins Manager of the Year Award; Given three year extension
Mirroring The Sporting News' awards earlier this month, Jim Tracy and Mike Scioscia have won the Manager of the Year awards for their respective leagues.
In a suprising twist, Jim Tracy actually won in a landslide (the landslide part being the twist), by even a bigger margin than Zack Greinke won the Cy Young.
Only 3 managers received 1st place votes, with Tracy taking home 29 of them. Behind him, Tony La Russa received 2 and Joe Torre received 1. Complete tallies below.
Tracy, as many of you know, led the Rockies to a 190-2 record after Clint Hurdle was fired with a team record of (-14)-29. In the meantime, Tracy also cured cancer, brought peace to the Middle East, and was a soft-spoken gentleman the whole way.
Seriously, Tracy did bring something to the club we lacked in Hurdle. Maybe it was just a different personality, maybe it was something in his actual coaching ability, but whatever it was, it seemed to work pretty well. The next big hurdle for Tracy will be to get Tulo and the rest of the Rockies to not play like they're all on sedatives or something.
Speaking of Hurdle, he was hired by the Rangers as their hitting coach earlier this month.
Across the pond (ok not really), the Angels' skipper Mike Scioscia did some good work with a slightly mismatched and overpaid squad of guys, put some spitpolish into guys like Kendry Morales, and dealt with some serious adversity to start their season as they finished by taking yet another AL West title, and finishing their season in the ALCS vs the Yankees.
Kudos to both managers, and may 2010 bring fortune to them both. More importantly, our clubs.
NL Results
|
Name |
1st |
2nd |
3rd |
Points |
|
Jim Tracy, Colorado Rockies |
29 |
2 |
0 |
151 |
|
Tony La Russa, St. Louis Cardinals |
2 |
13 |
6 |
55 |
|
Joe Torre, Los Angeles Dodgers |
1 |
7 |
7 |
33 |
|
Bobby Cox, Atlanta Braves |
0 |
3 |
6 |
21 |
|
Bruce Bochy, San Francisco Giants |
0 |
5 |
3 |
18 |
|
Charlie Manuel, Philadelphia Phillies |
0 |
2 |
4 |
10 |
|
Fredi Gonzalez, Florida Marlins |
0 |
0 |
4 |
4 |
|
Bud Black, San Diego Padres |
0 |
0 |
2 |
2 |
AL Results
|
Name |
1st |
2nd |
3rd |
Points |
|
Mike Scioscia, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim |
15 |
10 |
1 |
106 |
|
Ron Gardenhire, Minnesota Twins |
6 |
12 |
6 |
72 |
|
Joe Girardi, New York Yankees |
4 |
3 |
5 |
34 |
|
Don Wakamatsu, Seattle Mariners |
2 |
2 |
3 |
19 |
|
Ron Washington, Texas Rangers |
1 |
1 |
11 |
19 |
|
Jim Leyland, Detroit Tigers |
0 |
0 |
2 |
2 |
UPDATE:
I'm just going to tag this on here for now, but Tracy Ringolsby is reporting that Tracy has been given a three year extension by the club as well. It seems both the MOY and contract situations were resolved on the same day after all.
0 recs |
130 comments
|
Comments
I suppose I'll repost this on the actual MoY thread...
I know I shouldn’t get as worked up about this as I am, but on MLB.com’s slide for the Managers of the Year, it lists Scioscia and Tracy as receiving the awards, but when you click the article’s headline it takes you to the Scioscia article. You have to go down and click on Tracy’s name in order to see the 1/2 as long Tracy article.
I know that Tracy’s gotten love for his job all year long, and I’m predisposed to view things with a media anti-Rockies slant, but… it’s just one more thing, you know?
Regardless, congrats to Jim!
"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
NA34 | HK | RMN
"Even our depth has depth." - Silverblood
by oo_nrb on Nov 18, 2009 12:21 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
also on ESPN, clicking on the story takes you to just some quick copy about both managers
with additional links for heavier coverage.
MLB is run by idiots, you know this, I know this. Don’t let it get to you, esp when ESPN is being fair about it.
Granted, if Terry Francona had won it, the story about Tracy winning may not have been broken until sometime next week.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I really shouldn't let it get to me
I guess it’s become a knee-jerk reaction by this point?
"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
NA34 | HK | RMN
"Even our depth has depth." - Silverblood
by oo_nrb on Nov 18, 2009 12:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel you, definitely, it's not just you
I’m trying to calm down about it, personally, just so I’m not constantly whining and bitter when talking in more mixed baseball crowds (read: Yankees fans). It kind of made me not fun to talk to, you know?
I definitely commented on this on the Scioscia article on mlb.com, however.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Job Tracy
way to work this team into shape this year. It would be appreciated if you could keep them in a similar shape all season next year. Thanks again, and good luck.
JFK
by jrockies on Nov 18, 2009 12:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Well deserved, very happy for him
but this closes the book on 2009 and we don’t get any wins going forward for how good he was last year. Time to get going on 2010. Would be nice to see the team ready to go and jump out early for a change…
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 12:34 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
and that came off way too harsh
not the intent. Hopefully Tracy has plenty of time to enjoy his award. Just my feeling that the expectations are going to be really high and no time to rest on laurels.
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 12:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
well the cancer curing this was kind of big.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
cancer curing?
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 18, 2009 2:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Tracy
cured cancer around August 5.
NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Nov 18, 2009 2:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
okay...I missed that headline :)
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 18, 2009 2:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
just teasing--
Where you’ve been , girl…I’ve missed your posts :)
by butterfly on Nov 18, 2009 2:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
aww thanks.
I just wanted to pop in and say Yay for Jim Tracy.
Truthfully, its been kind of a lousy couple of weeks.
I’m still job searching and getting rid of stuff from my apt, in case I have to up and move quickly. Had to get my car repaired (which is still not but whatever), family stuff. I wasn’t getting any feedback on any of the jobs I applied for and decided in the last few days I better rewrite my whole resume for the 5th time and its just so annoying!
I do miss the Row, but pesky life got in the way:(
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 18, 2009 4:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
So that explains
why JA Happ was able to throw a CG 4 hitter that day…Tracy had bigger fish to fry.
by Muzia on Nov 18, 2009 2:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope for 2 in a row after the Rox win their first division title
… and Tracy brings in the lefty to face Howard in the playoffs
by 6161Maris on Nov 18, 2009 12:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight
The Rockies were 76-31 last year? That is not enough games RMN.
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:36 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
do I really need to edit my hyperbole
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a joke
I was saying that your hyperbole didn’t do proper math
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
does my hyperbole really need to fix it
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
w/e i'll just do it
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Now your math is even more improper
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
well it overemphasises the hyperbole
I’d argue it’s MORE proper.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I'd argue that it's LESS more proper
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
my eyes just started hurting
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It does not
Leave it. It might be funnier that way
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely deserved it!
Congradulations, Tracy!
by Rockie4Ever on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 PM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I want to know
Where the votes for La Russa and Torre came from. Because if it was the St. Louis and Los Angeles writers, that would be a little egregious. I hate junk like that.
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:38 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Like the Detroit voter putting Verlander #1 yesterday? Shocker.
by Hizilla on Nov 18, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
And the 2 Detroit writers voting for Magglio in ‘07. Ohhh no, I haven’t forgotten about that.
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Tigers get in a beanball war with the Royals this year or was that just the White Sox
I only ask to wonder if there was a little animosity felt toward KC. Still no excuse for it.
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2009 1:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Each city has 2 votes
so it would be entirely possible that they did vote like that. I would like to know too.
JFK
by jrockies on Nov 18, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget that
I just realized that Tracy was completely left off of a ballot. What happened there?
JFK
by jrockies on Nov 18, 2009 12:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And now that I think about it
it has to be one of the three who didn’t give Tracy the first place vote. I blame the Dodgers writer for this (disclaimer: I have no substantial evidence for this, just a dislike of the Dodgers).
JFK
by jrockies on Nov 18, 2009 12:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You know
It just makes them look really ignorant and like homers. There was a really obvious choice out there and they took the lazy option and chose the hometown guy. Pay attention to baseball, guys.
by controlled_slide on Nov 18, 2009 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm. interesting response
Can one not espouse an opinion or feeling about something without being told to “get over it”. Weird…
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 19, 2009 7:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But Hizilla was saying exactly that!
He’s saying that whatever the motives for NOT voting for the obvious guy, people are free to do so. So he’s actually standing up for your (or anyone’s) right to have a different opinion.
by biondino on Nov 19, 2009 8:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
can one not protest an unfruitful line of conversation
without someone being vilified and another being victimized?
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 19, 2009 8:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
villified and victimized..are you ticked about something?
by butterfly on Nov 19, 2009 9:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
nope, I simply didn't find Hizilla's comment out of line at all
And the strawman presented was frustrating and clearly false. controlled_slide was caught up in a seeming fruitless line of conversation, and Hizilla called him out on it. That was the end of it.
The assertion that when ANY opinion is stated it’s met with “GET OVER IT” is clearly not the way we operate around here, so I resent the implication that any opinion is stonewalled.
Sometimes “get over it” is entirely the appropriate response.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 19, 2009 10:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you for the clarification.
I guess it’s just me, but I just thought the words were a little harsh. Now, I will “get over it”
by butterfly on Nov 19, 2009 10:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
neither was vilified nor victimized.
One can always protest any line of conversation, but I thought the “Get over it”, comment was rather harsh.
and it seemed to carry a “shut up about it already” tone..which seemed intended to squelch the conversation.
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's because the line of reasoning Hizilla was "intending to squelch", as RMN explains, seemed to be rather fruitless.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 19, 2009 3:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe thats what I'm missing here ...
i didn’t see it as fruitless…
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 19, 2009 3:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
We need to complain that our Manager didn’t win unanimously, therefore the voting is flawed? Can we not just be happy that he won in a landslide?
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 3:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I posted below that one can be
happy at the win, and still not like the process :)
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 19, 2009 3:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
My point
and what I should have said was this:
We spend so much time angst over our guys not winning awards when we think they should have (see 2007 NL MVP, 2007 NL ROY, 2007 Shortstop Gold Glove, 2009 Shortstop Gold Glove); that when our guy actually wins, in a landslide no less, that we are still finding problems with the voter.
Our guy won. By A LOT. Be happy about it, rather than find fault in it.
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 10:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
At the risk of reopening this (and I'm not trying to)
My point (and, as RMN pointed out above, it may have been an erroneous straw man argument), was not that the Rockies get no love or anything of the kind. I’ve begun to care less and less about whether my favorite players win awards as long as they are valuable to the team and help them win. No, my problem is with people who vote for awards without doing the necessary research. In a lot of cases, there are benefits to receiving awards (both tangible – as a contract bonus; getting larger future contracts – and intangible – better consideration for the Hall of Fame and such like that), and it really matters to the players that they get awards. If writers (and managers in the case of Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers) won’t do the necessary research in their votes and simply vote for the guy they see a lot or the guy that “everyone knows” is the best, then there can be miscarriages of justice. In this particular case, the right guy won. But, as evidenced by several votes, the crusade for correctness is not over.
Now, this may all be moot, I may be a braying jackass, and the three voters who didn’t vote for Tracy might have had really good, well thought out reasons for their votes, but if it was indeed hometown writers being lazy, then that’s a systemic problem and it bothers me a bit.
I realize that I started this, but really I was just venting. I didn’t necessarily desire or expect responses.
And as for Hizilla being overly harsh, I didn’t really mind that much. I have thick skin.
Done.
by controlled_slide on Nov 19, 2009 10:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
disagree with you on those points at all really. But there are the same issues whether it’s the writers voting or the players voting or the fans voting, not everyone is going to take the time to do the research, and not everyone is going to have the same opinion, and when there is an obvious choice not everyone is going to get it right. I like your argument here much more than the “Gosh those LA jerks didn’t vote for Tracy” (which wasn’t really your argument at all). I can see valid reasons for voting for other candidates.
Someone voted for Torre. Rather than saying, oh that’s total homerism. Look at what he did. LA won 90someodd games while missing arguably their best player for 50 games (Kemp is probably their best player now, but most would have said Manny going into the season); their starting pitching was kind of a mess all year, and somehow they still managed that. Black managed to take SD to nearly .500 with a lineup of misfits and replacement players. I guess while Tracy was probably the obvious choice, and nearly swept it, I think there were other valid choices out there, and really can’t find too much fault in the voting process.
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 11:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're on the same page
And I agree, if someone had a really good, compelling, and above all well thought out reason for Torre or La Russa, then all power to them, awards are a matter of opinion, especially in very close races and when there are few numbers to be considered. I just hope that hometown writers aren’t voting for “their” guys because they saw them more than other, more deserving candidates.
Finally, I agree that there will be problems in any voting processes because some people don’t do the research. It would just be nice if that weren’t the case. I can dream, can’t I?
by controlled_slide on Nov 19, 2009 11:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
I haven’t taken the time to go check in local papers and whatnot to see if anyone defended their non-Tracy vote, but a number of the voters that stepped away from the norm for the other awards did do that and explain their reasoning – I applaud that even if I don’t agree with their votes. Especially with the Writer votes, I would like to see a little more transparency.
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 1:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't particularly surprise that Torre got votes
and I do think there is the “same as it ever was” and “let’s not monkey with the status quo” in the voting.
I think one can complain about a bad process and still be happy about the result:)
Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!
Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!
by SDcat09 on Nov 19, 2009 2:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It might also have been one of the SF guys.
How exactly does Bochy get votes for anything other than last? He willingly wrote Molina’s name in the cleanup spot, didn’t he?
by RoxnSox09 on Nov 18, 2009 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy
I read there was some support for Bochy because the team was in contention down the stretch without much (offense) to work with. Bizzare argument but I saw it out there.
The Bud Black votes baffles me though. I understand they’ve shed talent & payroll but what did the Padres do at all this year to qualify Black for the award…
by phishbate on Nov 18, 2009 1:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bud Black deserved more than 2 3rd place votes
They were a decent team the second half of the season with a team full of replacement players (with 2 or 3 notable exceptions)
He squeezed every last amount of EFFORT and GRIT out of that team.
by Muzia on Nov 18, 2009 1:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i would have considered black for a third place vote
He had no above average established talent to work with, outside AGone. His best starting pitcher was a castoff reliever from san Fran. They were written off in the spring as a cinch cellar dweller team, and they exceeded everyone’s expectations and finishing as strong as any team in the league. Its the gm’s job to make the team talented. Its the manager’s job for the team to win at least to its talent level. Arguably, san Diego won more games above their talent level, so no argument from me
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 1:24 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
The fact that the Padres weren’t fifth place in the division, even with the Arizona collapse, suggests some level of credit is due for Black in my eyes.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
Checking the numbers I see they had 66 expected wins (pythag) but managed to get 75 wins. I suppose much of that is attributable to the management (during a couple strong winning streaks) and while I think Black is a good manager I guess to me MOY requires a little more.
I guess I can see an argument for Black getting a couple nod at the bottom of the ballot.
by phishbate on Nov 18, 2009 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
thats essentially where i stand
I would never vote a MoY whose team was 12 games under 500, but he deserves recognition for making that hapless team formidable down the stretch
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 2:13 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
KRUK MUST HAVE HAD A BALLOT
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2009 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if anybody has updated the page yet,
but I just added Tracy Ringolsby’s report of a three year extension for Tracy and the news that the entire coaching staff will return in 2010.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 1:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Three year extension.
You can’t be too happy about that.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 1:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He probably wouldn't accept much less.
No way a 1-year deal would ever happen. So it’s really only a matter of 2 vs. 3.
by holly96 on Nov 18, 2009 1:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I was speaking more of the result, even if necessary, than the context of the situation. Even if Tracy wouldn’t have signed for less, it’s still not the ideal situation.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Provided you forget that no other situation was possuible, that is. :p
It’s like complaining that broccoli tastes bad. You can’t change it, but it’s still not what you’d like it to be.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
my eye twitched a bit
but it could be worse, I think. much much worse.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 1:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
eh, it's the team's money,
I honestly don’t think managers have as much an impact as a lot of people do, so it’s not a real big concern for me. I do think that the team could have done better with a more extensive, open search, but the fact that Tracy did so well as on an interim basis kind of tied their hands.
I should make it clear that I do think Tracy earned a three year contract with his work this season and deserves it, just that I also believe that there are better options out there.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We are in agreement, for once. :)
At least on the “managers don’t have as much of an impact as most people think” wavelength. You may remember my early fanposts about that before the managerial change.
That said, I remember ion a rockpile several weeks ago you said that the idea of Tracy on a multiyear deal made you very nervous.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 1:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yep,
that was quite a discussion. I do think the Rockies are at or nearing a high point for the franchise, and that therefore this would be a time to be particular in personnel choices. Going for the second best choice or not looking around for better options are decisions that could add up and a win or two difference now makes a pretty significant impact.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Better options out there
Who would you prefer besides Bobby V?
by Hizilla on Nov 18, 2009 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
well, there's a for instance,
How about trying to draw in Brad Ausmus? If there’s another Mike Scioscia/Joe Girardi type out there that can move seamlessly from playing to managing, it’s probably him. He certainly would provide more value from the bench than on the field.
I’m just saying that the situation kind of dictated no outside search for the Rockies, but it’s unlikely that they had the best available option already.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
I see the other guys that got hired by teams that did actually perform a search and I am not inspired. Manny Acta, Jim Riggleman, etc.
Even guys like Girardi and Scioscia spent time coaching before they were handed MLB level Managerial jobs.
by Hizilla on Nov 18, 2009 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Girardi's bench coach year with Torre and the Yankees isn't exactly
moving up through the ranks. He was pretty much promised a managerial job in Florida from the moment he retired.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Spending a year as a backup for the Dodgers isn’t exactly the same thing either. I imagine the focus is significantly different. My point was that neither guy stepped in directly from playing, they each had a year or more to “learn the ropes” in a lower pressure situation.
by Hizilla on Nov 18, 2009 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Ausmus?
Was Frank Chance unavailable? I’m with Hizilla on this one. Tracy has experience running a high payroll club, a bottom feeding club, and a playoff caliber Rockies team. He’s the right man for the job and the team respects him.
Donate to charity by shopping for Purple Row Merchandise at:
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by Charlie77 on Nov 18, 2009 11:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Mockery gets you nowhere...
I’m surprised all these other smart people on this board don’t realize how Ausmus is being groomed for a quick ascent to the managerial ranks. I mean, I just threw the name out there and obviously he’s not the Rockies guy, but I wouldn’t be so dismissive until you talk to a few baseball people about him.
I’m guessing he will follow the Girardi route and be a bench coach for a season or two as a formality, but I really think he’ll be an MLB manager with a season or two of retirement barring any Wally Backman style scandalous screw-ups.
by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2009 6:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And even with a
Wally Backman-style screw-up, a future is still possible. Look at Wally Backman. Just named as manager of the the Brooklyn Cyclones, that could be a message to Manuel. Oh, wait, there goes those NY rags running with a non-story story.
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by Russ Oates on Nov 19, 2009 7:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I won't disagree
that Ausmus may be a fine Manager some day. But would you honestly rather just hand it over to him right now? Seems like an awful big leap to make. Teekalong really hit it on the head. After what the team did under Tracy – there was no way they were not going to extend him.
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
There are two different questions we're asking...
The one you ask is a lot more complicated and somewhat more loaded than the simple “Do you honestly feel that Brad Ausmus, without managerial experience, would be a better manager in 2010-2012 than Jim Tracy?”
The answer to that one is actually yes, I honestly do think he would be a better manager for those three seasons. I’d look at leadership and baseball intelligence as far more important qualities in a prospective manager than experience, and I think Ausmus (given what I’ve heard of both men, who I’ve never actually met, and I’m not interviewing them here, so this is just silly conjecture anyway) would trump Tracy in both categories.
The answer to your question, however, is “probably not”. I think I’ve said repeatedly (in my responses in this very thread) that the Rockies hands are tied here. I’d think we could squeeze a few more wins in total over the next three seasons with a better manager, but I don’t think the Rockies have much of an option to actually look, and honestly without fan support for an open search, I don’t think it would be worth it. If fan and player support was more lukewarm toward Tracy than maybe they could, but the majority of Rockies fans as well as the players themselves are definitely believing the team’s going places with him, and since strong season ticket sales are going to help this team far more over the coming seasons than a strong field manager, the decision really is a no-brainer. Again, I’m just saying I’m not going to pretend to be gung-ho about it when I’m not.
by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the answers to the simple question
"Do you honestly feel that Brad Ausmus, without managerial experience, would be a better manager in 2010-2012 than Jim Tracy?" is no. Aside from me thinking that Tracy is a smart baseball guy he has great chemistry with this group of players, and sometimes that can be the hardest thing to find. The players like him, they seem to execute for him, and I think he knows which guys to use in key spots (again just my opnion).
Is there another manager out there that could do better in 2010-2012, I’m sure there is, but I don’t think it would be smart to pursue. It would be like playing blackjack and hitting on 19. Sure we could do better and hit a deuce or an Ace but at the end of the day I’ll take my chances with the 19.
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 19, 2009 3:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to pick on Ausmus
but that was what you gave me to work with. I don’t disagree with you that from a business (business of baseball) standpoint, doing a real search is the best way to go. And I agree that their hands were tied. My problem with Ausmus is really that if the Rockies are going to hire someone for the job with no experience it wouldn’t be someone with no previous ties to the organization. If they are going to do that it will be Todd and only Todd. I honestly think that Ausmus’ best shot was with the Astros, and I don’t know if he was even in the running there.
by Hizilla on Nov 19, 2009 3:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think handing Ausmus the job right now..
is akin to placing Matzek in the starting rotation next season. Yeah, he’s got the skills, but he’s not ready. Ausmus is the current top managerial prospect, but just like Tyler, he won’t help the Rockies in 2010. Why waste two years in hoping Ausmus will be as good in a couple of years as Tracy is now?
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by Charlie77 on Nov 19, 2009 6:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree when you say you "don’t think managers have as much an impact as a lot of people do"
when it applies to the AL, but I disagree in the NL. I’ve always felt that being an AL manager is like playing checkers while being an NL manager is like playing chess. With all of the players an NL manager has to use in an average game I think they can be worth a four or five game swing over the course of a 162 game season. That can make a big difference at the end of the year.
I’m not giving Tracy complete credit for the turnaround but I think it is really important to have a good manager in the NL
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2009 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The manager
doesn’t change the talent or abilities of players, they can only make sure that those talents and abilities are put into play in the right situation. Tracy did an exceptional job until September, when the rosters expanded and he fell into some bad habits. I hope that the Tracy we have for the next three years is June-July-August Tracy, not September Tracy.
Never give up, never surrender.
by coolopotamus on Nov 18, 2009 1:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What was our September record again?
18-9. Including an 8 game winning streak. Why exactly is everyone so angry about September? Other than the incomparable June, it was his best month, and it so happened to be when the pressure was greatest. Really, Sept 1 was the time he turned it on, after the 5 game losing streak to close out August. It seems to me that his micromanaging was hardly as destructive as many like to say. Or maybe its all because September was when…
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 2:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
WORLD WAR III BEGAN
I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 18, 2009 2:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps she means October
We did win only one of our last six
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 3:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well, actually no.
Last regular season win, though.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 3:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
September and October
Never give up, never surrender.
by coolopotamus on Nov 18, 2009 5:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Really, come on now
was there EVER any reasonable doubt or remotely plausible alternative? Of course it was what was going to happen, and should have happend. I’ve yet to hear another available manager named that seems to me to be any sort of legitimate upgrade (impossible to test, of course). I mean, Valentine? Acta? CURRENT PLAYERS? Come on. Maybe these guys could be great, but it is absolue utter conjecture to assume these people would do more than what Tracy will do.
Leaving aside what the players would think, which to my admittedly outside eye, would not be at all a popular clubhouse move.
I agree I’ve done my 180 on Tracy, and I reserve my right to go back. But the man earned my respect with what matters to me most: results on the field. He has earned his contract, and I for one am very happy to have him leading the charge next year. But I’m not going to get wishy-washy about it, we have a good team and expectations are high.
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 2:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever, I think why I didn't bring it up again is that we've had this discussion...
and your argument that there’s no plausible better to Tracy is just as unconvincing to me as my argument that there surely must be somebody who’s at least a bit more capable of drawing out the talents of his players and more tactically sound than he is to you. I think the lines are drawn and further debate on it is pretty moot at this point since he has the job anyway. Now you seem to be accusing me of drawing it out when I was just trying to answer WolfMarauder.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 2:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be too contentious
and I’m not saying that nobody could possibly be better than Tracy, of course somebody could be. If you would have told me before this year that Tracy would be manager of the year for us, I would have laughed, and I was also in favor of Baylor taking over after Hurdle. No doubt there could be better options, there are always things that could happen, but this debate is what should happen under our specific circumstances, and you are advocating that we should have done some sort of open search for a new manager. I’m just frankly surprised at the idea that the organization is somehow failing by not exploring options and is “settling” for the guy that pretty much every non-Rockies fan/media observers think did the best job in the league last year. And when I see names like Acta, I have to wonder why on god’s green earth people think he would be so great. I freely admit that I don’t follow his career, but I do follow baseball and I don’t see much of a groundswell of folks thinking he’s some sort of prodigy, moreso that he is a solid guy and got a bad rap in Wash. And I know you weren’t marrying yourself to Brad Ausmus, but what makes you think he’d have any idea what he was doing? Just because he’s been around forever as a decent player and was a catcher? Maybe these guys would be good, but there’s no evidence/argument I’ve seen that even begins to support this contention. As for me trying to convince you, I fail to see the point. The proof was in the pudding last year from Tracy. If that didn’t convince you that he’s better than his stints in Pitt (where he had about as much to work with as Acta in Wash) and even LA, that’s fine, I respect that. But its pretty compelling evidence to me, at least in terms of whether he should be given the ability to go forward. And evidently a lot of other folks.
Just shocked by the reaction really, I figured this would be a positive achievement from the club, national respect and momentum going forward, something to be embraced by all. The lukewarm response here is disappointing, though perhaps diluted by the fact that everyone knew it was coming (though that should also say something). I guess I’m just ignoring the elephants in the room and all. Or desperately trying. Whatever, there will undoubtedly be plenty of time to blast him over the next 3 years, I’ll applaud him for the moment.
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll applaud him over the next three years...
or at least as much of them that he’s our manager. I’m happy for his MOY award, but of all the major awards handed out, it really is the least major and not ever really a source of team pride as far as I am aware.
Anyway, as of this point I’m pro-Tracy and I really do hope the best from him and the team. I’m not going to blast him anymore until (and if) he does start messing up, but at the same time, I’m not going to be false and pretend I was on the gung ho side of the fence prior to this, or now, for that matter. You’ll have to settle for the mostly silent majority on this one, he really is being embraced by most of the Rockies nation as far as I can tell and as far as the previous discussion seemed to indicate. I’m definitely in the small minority in my opinion and I’m aware of it.
by Rox Girl on Nov 18, 2009 3:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable, understandable, yes it's perfectly understandable.
Comprehensible, comprehensible, not a bit reprehensible, it’s so defensible.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 3:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i cant argue with you
He earned this honor – let’s applaud it, for its only the second time this honor has been given to the franchise. An open search for another manager is such a bad PR and clubhouse move I wouldn’t even bother to consider it. Tracy may not be the best, but he has earned his upcoming tenure. I’m happy for him
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 3:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just learned how to *bold* stuff...
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 3:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
use hyphens and you can strike your whole argument out
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 4:21 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
why would I ever want to do that with all the brilliant stuff I have to say?
I doubt I’ve ever been wrong here Seth Smith JDLR you know?
by Teekalong on Nov 18, 2009 4:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not a fan...but we could certainly do much worse than Tracy.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Nov 18, 2009 1:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
good news here
To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Nov 19, 2009 5:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
On to 2010
Congrats to Tracy, he certainly deserved it.
I can’t wait to see how he manages a full (and hopefully successful) season.
by phishbate on Nov 18, 2009 1:01 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Renck has really stopped proofreading over the past few weeks.
by WolfMarauder on Nov 18, 2009 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet the Colorado sabr site is going nuts over it.
They hate renck.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 3:50 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It's official
Our manager is great, and our players are crappy.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
by Rawktober on Nov 18, 2009 2:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Tracy Ringolsby picks some gems
when asked to name the best 3-5 players from the recently announced minor league FA list:
Some names that would interest me are:
Winston Abeu and Chris Capuano, both left-handed pitchers.
Chad Cordero, former Nationals closer coming off surgery.
Tagg Bozied, Eric Duncan, who could be right-handed possibilities at first, third and ph.
OFs Reggie Abercombie, Joe Borchard.
Catcher J.R. House.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
by Rawktober on Nov 18, 2009 2:26 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I see a sarcastic TV doctor and a fashion designer on that list
Not a promising group of candidates.
by Muzia on Nov 18, 2009 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I get your point
gemscostume jewelry?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti
by Rawktober on Nov 18, 2009 3:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
headline: rockies sign former All-Star left hander
Brings back memories of mark redman
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 18, 2009 3:18 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Is Tim Gunn available?
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by Charlie77 on Nov 18, 2009 11:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Iirc we've been looking at capuano for awhile now.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 18, 2009 3:51 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so
It wouldn’t be a bad move to bring him in on a minor league deal, especially if he has a chance to regain what he once was (I doubt this). He is also 2 years younger than Redman was two years ago for us.
JFK
by jrockies on Nov 18, 2009 7:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to high school with Bozied. He was about 3 years above me at Arvada.
And I’ve taken calls at work from his insurance agent. Twice.
by blackmet on Nov 19, 2009 12:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about the lack of rockpile today
There should be a counting rocks up soon to bore you all to tears, if that’s any consolation.
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 19, 2009 10:03 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
there should be a Rockpile up right now to bore everybody to tears.
by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2009 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yep, there is one...
I have to apologize to everybody for being late. I had a morning errand to run and then got distracted by the allures of Chihuahua.
by Rox Girl on Nov 19, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Mexico or canine?
Hope got in my eyes
by Andrew Martin on Nov 19, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

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