Thursday Rockpile: Yankees championship hints that death, taxes may also be possible

This.

Times a million, billion, trillion.

I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.

by SlamDunkTheFunk on Nov 5, 2009 8:12 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

This is hilarious

I too, salute the Yankees!

by Prospector on Nov 5, 2009 8:13 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Awesome

by WanderingRoxFan on Nov 5, 2009 8:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Most excellent!

What a great way to start my Thursday. Great job, RG!

That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball. ~Bill Veeck

by rockhead on Nov 5, 2009 8:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hilarious

I join the finger salute with both hands.

Two links. First, a blog from a Venezuelan Rockies fan with winter league (and futbol) updates from there:

http://cesarcarvajalbaez.tumblr.com/

Second, Dbacks release Petit and Slaten:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/NickPiecoro/66763

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 8:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of...

Jhoulys Chacín (Caracas) didn’t have a great game. Just threw 2.2 innings. 57 pitches, 39 strikes, 18 balls. Admited 7 hits and 7 runs (4 ER). Struck out 4 and gave 1 BB. Now his ERA is 6.52.

A winter like that, and he won’t be a serious rotation candidate for next year, methinks.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 9:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

buster olney on mike and mike this morning

Teased that something will happen in the next month to make Yankee haters more angry. I just lost radio reception as he is about to reveal it. Anyone know? Sign the top three FA again?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 5, 2009 8:22 AM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

They bought

everyone’s first-born son and those that will be born.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 5, 2009 8:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

let's hope it's like Brett Tomko Jr and George Eckstein

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 8:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

While anedcotally, Russ would be correct, the actual answer is...

…Olney talked about how clubs will non-tender up to 100 arbitration eligible players. What made me spit my coffee in my car was that the FIRST player he cited was Garrett Atkins, that the Rox would let him go because they wouldn’t want to pay him arbitration dollars. And ZERO mention of his low .600s OPS, declining bat speed, etc. Only that he’s been a 99 RBI guy three of the last four years.

Oh yeah, he also cited the Iwamura trade as an example of the have-nots not being able to pay players. Of course, Iwamura was traded to the PIRATES, of all teams, and they’re talking long term deal. Absolutely no mention of how Zobrist basically became all-world in that spot.

Sometimes, Buster Olney is truly a krukin’ idiot.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 9:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

how does that hate the Yankees more?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 10:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

make us hate

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't make me hate the Yankees more

I have always hated the Yankees. At least going back to my earliest awareness of them in the mid 70’s.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

olney also said

that with the 100s of newly nontendered guys that the small market teams will cut, the yankees and other big dollar teams will swoop in and start signing them

by purplesocks on Nov 5, 2009 10:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Prima nocta.

by Teekalong on Nov 5, 2009 10:24 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs

this is just goddamn hilarious is what this is

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no one tell mel gibson

Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But if you never quit *and* never win, you are an idiot

by squalene203 on Nov 5, 2009 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

dont hate the playa

Hate the game

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 5, 2009 8:28 AM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 5, 2009 8:45 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Slight changes over the night.

Headlines are bolder and more noticeable. Widgets were framed and shaded, but a lot of white space still exists. To take up some of the white space on the sides, I inserted much of the right sidebar found on the front page into the interior page layout.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 5, 2009 8:46 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

looks much better

Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But if you never quit *and* never win, you are an idiot

by squalene203 on Nov 5, 2009 8:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

looks much better

and hope the white space can be lessened

Thanks for being open to the feedback.

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

So who else thinks the Royals were fleeced in the Teahen deal?

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:01 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Royals are probably wondering what OBP stands for...

Reeks of the same deal they made last year for Mike Jacobs.

I got nothing.

by nkrause on Nov 5, 2009 9:13 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

my thoughts exactly

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

when do the royals not get fleeced?

Actually like getz and fields. I’m not very sure ATM

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Nov 5, 2009 9:13 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Not so much on Fields.

He’s a poor fielder with lots of strikeouts whose only asset was power, but that seems to have diminished. He’s been expected to develop into a MLB third baseman for several years now, but he never delivers. He reminds me somewhat of Chris Young (another product of the vaunted Sox farm system).

Getz seems to me like he might develop into a decent second baseman, with good speed. His OBP is pretty poor, but he hasn’t had much of a chance to establish himself in the majors yet.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Might've looked

better a few years ago.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 5, 2009 9:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Dayton Moore: Worst GM

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to argue

Although Neal Huntington is close.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 2:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

the GM before was worse

seriously, trading for Matt Morris?

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 2:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll give you that, Littlefield was among the worst ever

The biggest problem I have with Huntington is that he seems to have a motto of “If we have a good player we must trade him”

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 2:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess my defense of Huntington is just that the team was made up of burnouts

and washed up players who had like 1 or 2 good seasons and now suck, or might be hot right now, but really really aren’t that good. Jason Bay is not one of these players.

Might as well turn over the roster and see where it goes.

oh and Andrew McCutchen is awesome.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair

I just see his moves as “we don’t want to ever pay for a player so lets get rid of them before the price tag goes up.” It may not be all Huntington’s fault but that franchises number one goal seems to be something other than winning.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 4:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I refer you to my previous post

Where the Pirates trumpeted how much higher their profit was this year, thanks in part to revenue sharing.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 4:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Mondogarage

That’s the kind of stuff I’m referring to

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 4:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If that's really his stance, shame on him, and I agree with you

I guess I’m just not seeing the big deal with moving Nate McLouth and Freddy Sanchez. Adam LaRoche was a bit of a headscratcher, but it wasn’t as if they were going to use him anyhow.

Now if he moves Garrett Jones for a bunch of B-listers, I’ll be really wondering.

I feel awful for Pirates fans :-(

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It's such a shame because that franchise has history and a beautiful ballpark

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 6:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely concur

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 7:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The big picture, sorta

I don’t really see the big deal in them moving McLouth and Sanchez, either. Both trades could arguably be made for baseball reasons, given Sanchez’ recent health issues/decline, and McLouth being…well, he’s not really a franchise cornerstone, ya know?

To me, that’s a separate issue from pretty much simply pocketing all the payroll savings, with no evidence that the team is actually trying to invest in its future.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 6, 2009 7:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

see: 2005 Rockies

LOOK AT ALL THOSE HOMERS BURNITZ HIT DAMN YOU CHEAPFORTS WHO IS THIS HOLIDAY GUY WHY DID YOU TRADE LARRY WALKER HOP SUCKS AND THIS ATKINS DIET GUY SUCKS TOO BRING BACK VINNY DAMN CHEAPFORTS AND ODUD

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 6, 2009 8:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, those

Atkins diet headlines sucked.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 6, 2009 8:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Imagine what the Rockies could have gotten for offering Jayson Nix a couple of years ago?

Probably Greinke.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 9:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Looks like one bit of chaff for two bits of chaff. Hard to work up outrage either way.

Plus, the Royals had to flip Teahen. He’s set to make $5 million next year, and I heard Buster Olney talking on ESPN Radio this morning saying that the Royals couldn’t afford him.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Nov 5, 2009 9:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

well Olney also

cited Atkins’ NT possibility as a cost cutting move, not his terrible play at the game of baseball.

Teahen has upside at the very least. He’s shown some pop and such.

I guess I see Teahen as a “meh” MLB player, but a MLB player nonetheless, while the other 2 bits of chaff are like Q and Johnny Herrera or some similar comp

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Olney's commentary

Seems like he approached it as if he has a position he wants to prove, and then misstates or ignores obvious facts that disprove his reasoning, in an attempt to provide a sound basis for that argument.

This is not to suggest that teams won’t non-tender a lot of arb players, they will. But using obvious cases where players have declined to the point where they’re simply not worth resigning for baseball reasons, as cases where the economics rule the decision-making, is ludicrous.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Did't we love Olney a few weeks ago for being the biggest Rox booster?

by biondino on Nov 5, 2009 10:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes and no

His “boosting” struck me a bit of Johnny-come-lately, given he didn’t seem to have anything good to say back in the days when Kruk was cementing his reputation…

But really, it’s more a complaint about the generally shoddy nature of ESPN “journalism” built more for off-the-cuff sound bites more than saying anything of actual substance. I wouldn’t expect Olney to write anything as idiotic on the website, but in his Mike & Mike appearances, he falls right into the same camp as everyone else.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Olney just stirs up whatever crap he can to make a "rumor"

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The real reason why teams may non-tender a lot of 5-6 year arb-eligibles...

Not accusing anyone in particular, but in the sorta post-PED era, it’s entirely possible a lot of players who put up big numbers in the earliest years of their career are now regressing to where they should be naturally performing at their ages, and their numbers/abilities simply aren’t worth what they would make in arbitration.

And not because the team simply can’t afford it.

I suspect that has to be a factor with regard to at least some of the players.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

well that and the new model is cycle out the old and bring in the new

and so many teams have legit players knocking on the door that they can’t give their older player a year or two to work his way out of it

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Great point

And all of these are realistic reasonings and likely factors, and yet not even mentioned by Olney, hence the shoddy “journalism”.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well the reason for that is

New/young players are cheap, and have “upsides” and may possibly get better. Older players get more expensive fast, and don’t get better, and and usually as they age their skills drop off

What we are seeing now, post ‘roid era, is a more normal curve where 30 is old for a baseball player. (turns out 40 year old balloon headed OF’s hitting a ton of Home Runs, isn’t normal)

by Redhawk on Nov 5, 2009 10:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, it's somewhat of a cyclical thing

I can’t afford big players, so I farm my team. I can’t afford my big player approaching FA, so I trade him for farmhands. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I don’t think WE’RE necessarily in that situation as cut and dry as I make it out to be, but we’re some sort of model of that – efficiency and effectiveness over big names, and appropriately judging value and attempting to forecast performance peaks, etc.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The folks at fangraphs liked the deal from the Royals perspective

My concern is that with the White Sox acquiring Teahen, the Rockies lose a potential suitor for Hawpe – and Kenny Williams isn’t the best GM around.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The Royals themselves are also a suitor.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I MADE A FANPOST ABOUT THISSSSS

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The Royals and Rockies have already been in dialogue about trades.

I’m not sure if Hawpe’s name came up though.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

oh ok

I’m just being a bit goofy

who the hell would we even want from them not named Greinke and/or Hochevar or POSSIBLY Callaspo?

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know, but I'll let you know if I find out.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

probably a prospect or something

or ALEX GORDON

god I don’t want Alex Gordon

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Nov 5, 2009 11:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

oh dear God

a bullpen including Street and Soria?

/goes to change his pants

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

And Betancourt. And good Morales. And Mariano Rivera, just for kicks.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 11:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see the Mariano Rox commercial now

Cue up relievers going into his office….

Street says “I want to be a 500-save closer”

Bucky says “I want to save 20 postseason games”

Rivera (after removing orange slice), “consider it done”.

Originality is overrated.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 11:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

everyone gaps

“DON ECKERSLEY!”

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

GASPS dammit

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But he's not afraid to make a move!!

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

he did land The Carlos Quentin

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Come on

1. 12 years of high spending by the Orioles, Mets, Cubs Tigers and Dodgers proves that money alone doesn’t buy championships.

2. If the Phillies, who had a small-market budget of $113M, had a decent pitching staff past Cliff Lee (Cole Hamels doesn’t really count in this postseason), and had used Chan Ho Park more in long relief instead of letting mediocre starters get shelled in the 3rd, 4th and 5th, they’d probably have won the series.

3. Cleveland is a backwater town. More evidence here. NYC hasn’t had a renowned serial killer in what, 30 years?

4. Tons and tons and tons of people said the Yankees would never win

5. As a new resident of MN, there’s nothing more irritating than hearing small-market fans (especiall those OF SUCCESSFUL TEAMS) complain about big payroll teams winning. It’s petty, comes off as sheer have-not jealousy, and Rockies fans are better than that. The Rockies have a core that could – and did, last year – take on the Yankees. Ubaldo, Cook and Francis (hopefully) could match up with CC, Burnett and Petitte. DLR and Marquis (or Hammel) are better than the Yankees 4-5.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 9:21 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

You really think that baseball has a balanced playing field?

look at the playoff teams from the last 5 years, and you will see consistently those teams making the playoffs are mostly from the top 20% of payrolls.

There are exceptions, but they are that….exceptions.

by Redhawk on Nov 5, 2009 9:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

making the playoffs is what it actually buys you. Everyone knows that once you’re there, it’s oftentimes a complete crapshoot.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The real issue here is....

…that teams like the Yanks/Mets/Red Sox/Cubs can continue to make huge mistake after huge mistake, and then just throw even more money at the problem.

Teams like the Twins and Rox cannot. Sure, they can compete, but they don’t have the luxury of ever being able to be wrong. If they’re wrong once, they’re not going to be a threat to win.

That said, I am absolutely not arguing for a salary cap, and am dead set against it. And the players union will never accept one, either. This is solely a revenue-sharing issue, and one for the owners to resolve amongst themselves.

It doesn’t help when a sad sack team like the Pirates publicly proclaims how they’ve had their most profitable season in quite a few years, when it comes as a direct result of dumping every known player on the roster and simply pocketing their share of revenue sharing dollars, and not putting any of it into player development.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 9:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that baseball doesn't need a salary cap.

It already has a luxury tax. The problem is that the luxury tax was initially created as a Yankee tax, and eventually the Red Sox became like the Yankees. It hasn’t affected the Yankees very much, though, and it is ineffective at actually spreading wealth from the richest teams. I think that if they lowered the threshold for the tax, and perhaps increased the rate, it would provide more money to the poor teams while creating a stronger disincentive for the wealthy teams to sign all the best players as free agents.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This could work, the hurdle is this...

….every time the owners begin to discuss such proposals amongst themselves, its implementation all of a sudden gets tied to imposition of a salary cap. That’s specifically what led to the ’94 strike.

Basically, while salary disparaties certainly lead to discontent amongst fanbases, in the end, revenue sharing and luxury taxes are ultimately an internal ownership. It’s not the players’ job to stop small-market ownership from pocketing revenue sharing money; it’s the job of the owners who are providing that revenue sharing money.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but the luxury tax is already there.

They don’t have to do something new that the union might get upset about. They just have to improve the existing framework to make it effective. And I would think the owners would be able to reach some agreement on this. After all, the rich teams are in the minority. For every New York or LA team there are multiple Royals and Brewers and Pirates teams. Heck, Selig himself comes from a small market team.

Of course, it seems like baseball usually just wants to maintain the status quo, so I don’t expect anything to change.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Luxury Tax means nothing without compelling owners to spend it.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 10:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

This.

And there’s a group of owners who remain adamant about imposing a salary cap enough, that they simply won’t take on the issue without trying to tie it to negotiation of a salary cap.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that's true.

Perhaps you should have to return the deficit between your payroll and income from revenue sharing the following year. Of course that would mean they’d still pocket the revenue from TV contracts and ticket/merchandise sales, but you can’t force owners to reinvest all profit into the team.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

recomended

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

quote from Texeira

“To the rich go the spoils,” Teixeira said. “George Steinbrenner built an empire. He really did. He deserves to build a great stadium. He deserves to have the best team money can buy.”

And that pretty much sums up why I find the Yankees so distasteful

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:20 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Unless you compel owners to spend the revenue sharing on payroll,

revenue sharing is a joke. As long as they can pocket the money to cover any operating losses, or to boost profit margins, it’s totally ineffective. It’s just spreading money around a group of already wealthy people.

It’s not just lower payroll teams not being able to cover their mistakes. Why did the Rockies sign Kip Wells, and keep running Mark Redman out to start? They had other options in the minor leagues. Why did the Twins sign Nick Punto to 2/$8M? Why did the Royals dump 3/$36M on Jose Guillen? Why did the Mariners sign Carlos Silva to 4/$48? Livan Hernandez? It’d be nice to be able to cover those mistakes, but those are expensive mistakes for any team. And teams keep signing the same crap players hoping for different results. The real problem is making the signings in the first place.

Low-revenue teams are not necessarily a product of small markets. Well-financed owners (which are most of the owners) could take temporary losses (but should not have to) to make player investments hire better front office talent, and invest in scouting Latin America and other international markets. They just don’t.

Front office talent seems to account as much for success as payroll. Simply put, the Royals, Pirates, Blue Jays, Orioles, Nationals and others had/have terrible front offices who made terrible player personnel decisions.

What’s a low-payroll anymore, anyway? 12 teams have payroll over $92M.

The Yankees, Cardinals and A’s have won 46 of ~94 World Series. No, there’s not a level playing field in MLB. There never has been. A salary cap will only depress player salaries, while revenues continue to increase. Say the cap is $110M. That means owners can keep more money, fans can keep paying more, players get less, and the same top-heavy teams will keep running out good products while the low-end teams will continue to spend less and win less. If there is a way to accomplish that without a salary cap, then people should put the solution forward.

Until then, wtf? Lay off the teams that spend a lot, and make smart decisions. Get on the teams that spend like crazy and don’t do anything besides provide cover for the Yankees.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 10:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

on your conclusion

I suppose we could lay off teams that spend alot, regardless of whether they make smart decisions. We have to agree it doesn’t really matter if you make smart decisions if you can print money. I guess the Yankees FO is less irresponsible than the Mets. I should affirm that? OK, they’re the best team. They should be with five of the top ten players in the game.

Getting on the teams that spend a lot is not about jealousy as much as it is a canary in the coal mine. As long as this dynamic persists, MLB will continue to lose fans to the NFL. Hard to get fanatical when your team never makes the postseason. Selig and the MLBPA are methodically running this game into the ditch. They have botched the team revenue and PED issues with no solution in sight for either.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a bit of a copout

There are plenty of NFL teams that are entirely uncompetitive for long, long, long stretches of their history (Browns, Buccaneers, Bills, Bengals, Cardinals, Seahawks, Rams, Lions, to name a few). And those teams see their fan bases erode, just as they do in MLB. In fact, one can argue that the NFL is even more shoddily setup, when the teams do share nearly all revenue, and yet there’s still teams that are virtually never competitive.

Sure, one might sneak into the playoffs once in a blue moon, but over 1/3 of the NFL makes the playoffs each year, so just making the playoffs itself isn’t really a valid comparison.

The difference is that the NFL has complete revenue sharing of their multibillion national TV contracts, while MLB’s national contracts are only a portion of their overall TV dollars.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If not parity and competitiveness

to what do you attribute the growing popularity of the NFL and decreasing popularity of MLB?

By the way, each of the NFL teams you’ve named have many more playoff appearances than the bottom feeders of the MLB over the last ten years.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 11:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Two points

The growing popularity of the NFL has as much to do with smart marketing (things such as the advent of MNF), a cohesive national marketing plan, fantasy football, and frankly, sports gambling, far more than any perceived parity.

And as for teams like the Cards and Rams having made playoff appearances in the last 10 years, I am specifically talking about how these teams have spent the vast majority of their entire existences as utter sad sacks.

Arizona making it to the Super Bowl last year doesn’t really erase the sad sad history of that franchise, and how utterly uncompetitive they are almost year after year after year. Get enough top 3 draft choices, however, and you might be able to swing a good year or two.

As for the “decreasing popularity” of MLB, MLB set attendance records annually for the last several years (until this year, for broader economic reasons). Any decrease in popularity is a) as much perception as anything else, and b) generally only relative to the NFL. I’m sure the NHL and NBA would love to be as unpopular as baseball has become, in terms of attendance and overall revenue.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd almost attribute the growth of the NFL and the decline of MLB ($4BB revenue?)

to fan attention spans. Football games are shorter, and you only have to pay attention 1,2 days a week, 3 if you follow college.

16 games engenders a rabidity from fans driven by scarcity of product. Were the NFL on 5-6 times a week, it would not be as popular as it is.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd attribute it to

the violence of the sport, and slo-mo replays. They are the perfect vehicle for generating excitement. Just ask ESPN.
I’d also factor in the fact that most fans, rabid and casual, are OFF on Sundays so they get the opportunity to plan an event around the game. You don’t see fans tailgating at baseball games…

The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.

by rockieprogress on Nov 5, 2009 2:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Revenue Sharing is not a joke

if you have 100% revenue sharing (something akin to the NFL) then every team would have the same playing field. If an Owner wanted to pocket his money and not field a team, that would be his choice. The fans in that city would suffer, but they at least would know the reason why. It would be bad ownership/management.

So the issue you have is not with revenue sharing…it’s with trusting of ownership to actually use it. OK…that’s fair. But we don’t know that now, as there isn’t anywhere CLOSE to pure revenue sharing in baseball. (and never will be as greed will always a factor)

by Redhawk on Nov 5, 2009 10:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

And here's the rub

if you have 100% revenue sharing (something akin to the NFL) then every team would have the same playing field.

Even 100% revenue sharing guarantees nothing. The NFL is still full of over a half dozen franchises that are so shoddily run that they will never win anything of importance, absent a stroke of lightning.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But at least you know why your team stinks

and it gives fans hope that it can be turned around. Which right now doesn’t exist in many baseball cities right now. Many clubs have little to chance under the current system, even if they are well run.

I mean take the Royals and Yankees front office and field managers, and swap them, but leave the budgets in place. I can quarantine that the Yankees would be in the playoffs several times before the Royals ever could make it.

Mike Tyson in his prime couldn’t win a fight if one hand was tied behind his back, and the other guy had two free ones. And that is baseball right now.

by Redhawk on Nov 5, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If Dayton Moore ran the Yankees...

…they’d never sniff the playoffs again.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

well, give Cashman a bit of credit

at the very least he’s getting the best guys and doing some decent farming. I kind of blame him, however, for the fact that Joba and Hughes kind of….well, they’re not the rotation forces they once were (it’s almost like they flipflopped from 2007/8)

If Jim Hendry were running a big market team, they’d never….snif… hangon

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I give Cashman a lot of credit

Not sure I’d go as far as to say Cashman would take the Royals to the playoffs. But actually, in that division, sure. If Cashman ran the Royals, I think he could get therm there in five years.

It would take a couple years just to revamp all the dead weight.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he could

Ownership does hamper the actions of GMs.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I've posted this before, so excuse me if I'm boring you..

OK, so I did some quick research…
In the 90’s the NFL produced 7 different champions, with the Cowboys getting 3 and the Broncos getting 2. The NBA produced 4 different champions(!), with Chicago winning 6(!) and Houston winning 2. (LA and San Antonio were the other 2 winners, and they went on to get multiple championships in the following decade) In that same time frame MLB has produced 6 different champions, with the Yankees winning 3 and Toronto winning 2 (as well as one championship cancelled by the strike)
Since 2000, the NFL has produced 6 different champions, with New England getting 3 and the Steelers getting 2. The NBA produced 5 different champions, with LA winning 3 and San Antonio winning 3. In that same time frame MLB has produced 8 different champions, with only Boston repeating.
Remind me again how a salary cap leads fans to think their team will have a better chance to win it all? I’d say that the salary cap has not affected the top teams in the NBA at all, or given other fans hope that they are in the same league, and over the timeframe reviewed MLB compares favorably to the NFL for distinct championships. In short, a cap does not lead to more teams having a chance, as counter-intuitive as that might seem.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

do the same study

but tell me how many playoff repeaters there are in each sport. Like make a good cutoff that would be representative of a “somewhat regular playoff team”

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That might be interesting

It would take more time than I have today, but I’d like to re-visit this topic during the offseason…maybe I’ll do a FanPost.

As Mondo pointed out, with 12 teams in the NFL making the playoffs each year (as opposed to MLB’s 8) it’s not entirely an equivilent achievement, unlike championships.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

but championships have too many cinderellas and such that may not really be indicative of a good program/franchise/whatever

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a quick set of interesting numbers

Longest active post season droughts:
NFL- 2 teams with 9 years since their last appearance, (Buffalo and Detroit)
NBA- 3 teams with 5 years since their last appearance, (Knicks and T-wolves, plus the Bobcats who have never made it in 5 years of existance)
NHL- Florida Panthers 8 years since their last appearance (when they lost to the Avs in the Finals!)

MLB-Nationals/Expos with 28 years since their last appearance!!!

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

MLB has 7 teams...

with longer post-season droughts than the longest drought in the other 3 major sports leagues

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What does playoff drought length even mean?

Besides institutionalized organizational incompetence (read: Royals).

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 12:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The NBA/NHL are entirely irrelevant to the discussion

Over 1/2 the league makes the playoffs each year. You don’t even have to be good for a year to make the playoffs once in a decade, you simply have to be a bit less mediocre than usual (e.g., Clippers)

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 12:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

the difference is that the weak are typically weeded out in the 1st round

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Correct, a better analysis would restrict to those NHL/NBA teams

That make the 2nd round. A fluke 2nd round appearance by a 7th or 8th seed can be reasonably compared to a fluke MLB wild card team.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 12:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good suggestion

and keep them coming. I’ll write up something on this topic this weekend…

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It might be easier to just look at division winners in each sport

Numbers are closer this way. MLB, NBA, NHL all at 6 and the NFL at 8.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 2:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they are somewhat relevant in one aspect.

They do not make good comparisons to MLB, but they show (especially when compared to the NFL) the irrelevancy of a salary-cap, because those 3 leagues all have one, but get different results with it.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This is the hard part of the evaluation...

how much is “institutionalized organizational incompetence”, and how much is market-imbalance leading to big-market teams buying all the talent?

The Royals, I might lean toward small market size making it too difficult to compete. The Orioles lead me more toward the imcompetence side of the ledger.

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no the Royals are completely incompetent

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I won't argue that point.

;-)

But don’t you think there is a “spectrum” that goes from incompentence to market-size that reasonably explains teams’ lack of success, and that teams might be at different places on that spectrum, with incompetence explaining some teams suckitude, and financial factors (related to market-size)explaining others?

I’m open to the idea that I’m all wet here, and incompetence is the best explanation for all lack of success…

Ignorance of the American League is a sign of good moral character.
Look out Dodgers...Purple objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

I'll be the guy in a orange shirt EVERY Monday...Broncos are my team win or lose.

by RdRnnr on Nov 5, 2009 12:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the key here is...

Smaller markets create smaller windows for success, because you can’t spend your way out of colossal setbacks that would require smaller market teams to strip down and rebuild.

But incompetence completely closes the window for success.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Salary cap

I’ve lost track of where everyone is on the salary cap, but since salary caps also decrease the window for success (prevent sustained success), they would also hurt small market teams who are not going to hit the salary cap max every year.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Graph

Here’s a nice graph re payroll vs. wins.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 2:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Smaller market + incompetence

That’s what breeds the Royals/Pirates of MLB.

Large market + incompetence breeds the Cubs/Mets

Smallish market + competence breeds the Twins/A’s/Rockies

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 12:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Repeat playoff appearances

are the result of salary cap making it more difficult to retain developed talent. But we also love to see Cal Ripkens and Kirby Pucketts. It’s a catch-22.

So I guess the problem is with the arbitration schedule of MLB.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 12:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Bring back the reserve clause

Oh wait the government got involved with that too

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 2:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The reserve clause was a horrible horrible horrible creation

One of the most monopolistic practices every, and a complete restraint on free trade by the players. The only reason the reserve clause lasted as long as it did was the ignomious Supreme Court of the 1920s which called baseball “not interstate commerce”.

Essentially, if a team signed you as a 17 year old out of high school, they held your rights in perpetuity unless they decided to move you on.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I was kidding when I said bring it back

The only good thing about it was that if fans got attached to a player they would never have to worry about losing them. But yeah, the reserve clause does not need to come back.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

wow.., somebody woke up on the grumpy side of the bed this morning.

I’m sort of surprised that you take this post so seriously.

by Rox Girl on Nov 5, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone wakes up on the grumpy side once in a while. :p

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I've gotten a little sensitive since I relocated away from the east coast and desensitizing

groans of Boston fans, to Minnesota, where money is the root of all evil.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do you got be hating on Cleveland? What did we do

by arpagamos on Nov 5, 2009 12:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You spawned George Steinbrenner's empire (technically true, his first company was there)...

You did nothing. I’ve never been there. But RG mentioned the city in the post.

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 12:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

laffin at this

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:45 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

That picture's going

to be silly when he signs with the Royals.

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 5, 2009 9:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

He'll never sign with the Royals

His OBP is way too high to draw their interest.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 9:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

they'll probably try and re-convert him to 3B

and put Alex Gordon at 1B.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 9:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

OK,

then how about the Pirates?

NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Nov 5, 2009 9:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking more Natinals

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 9:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hiroshima Toyo Carp

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

He is gonna be Yankee....

by Colsportsfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Mets, personally

been touting that claim for years.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Great piece Rox Girl

LA Times this morning:
“The Rich get Richer”

and this is why I hate the Yankees overall. I don’t begrudge success. This is excess. The IMO, the Yankees are the monopoly of baseball. A billion dollar payroll, is just insane. And I do not think its good for the game.

On a different note, it also seems like there is no heart to the organization. Other than Jeter, Posada, and Rivera, I don’t like any of the players, I don’t like the manager. ARod lifting the trophy was more of him saying “neener, neener, neener, I’ve shown you” as opposed to real joy at accomplishing something.

That’s just what I think about it..

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:17 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees average a world series win every 3.96 years since the beginning of the series in 1903

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

wow. that is just depressing...lol

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But in the divisional era (1969 forward)

The ratio is one WS win every 5.85 years. (7 of 41 WS titles)

Not even accounting for the fact that the Yanks didn’t win a series from 1962-1968, either, which would make the answer one win every 6.71 years.

Not a single title after 1978 until 1996.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

ok, what are the other ratios then?

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Which other ratios?

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

how many WS titles each other team has

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

From 1903, year by year, not series by series:

Yankees 3.96
Marlins 8.5
Cardinals 10.7
Athletics 11.89
Diamondbacks 12
Red Sox 15.29
Blue Jays 16.5
Dodgers 17.67
Giants 21.4 (12)
Reds 21.4 (4)
Pirates 21.4 (2)
Mets 24
Tigers 26.75
Braves 35.67 (6)
Orioles 35.67 (4)
Twins 35.67 (3)
White Sox 35.67 (2)
Royals 41
Angels 49
Cubs 53.5 (8)
Phillies 53.5 (5)
Indians 53.5 (3)
Rays — (1) (1998) (12)
Rockies — (1) (1993) (17)
Padres — (2) (1969) (20.5)
Brewers — (1) (1969) (41)
Astros — (1) (1962) (48)
Mariners — (0) (1977)
Nationals — (0) (1969)
Rangers — (0) (1961)

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I wrote this list myself for my own use, so I'll explain what those numbers off to the side are.

For those who have won series, it’s the number of times they lost (simply used for ranking them), while for those who haven’t, it’s the number of times they’ve made it, the year their organization began, then the average amount of time between when they make it there.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

My one problem with citing the "3.96" ratio

Is its relevance. The Yanks have always had dominant $$$, but referring to numbers and history from the pre-draft, pre-FA, etc. era seems a bit meaningless, because their financial dominance is based on an entirely different set of reasons today.

And also, baseball has always had the haves and have nots. Always.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not claiming that ratio is evidence of money dominance, or is relevant to modern Yankee dominance.

Those numbers are purely and simply measuring the rate of success each organization has had across its history, which I still believe to be relevant.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I should point out I posted this in a fanpost before, and got torn to pieces over it.

However, the “flaws” people see in these numbers are because they’re looking for something else entirely. It’s not a problem with the numbers, it’s a problem with interpreting what they mean.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

To me winning the WS is not necessarily the right measure

Fans want their teams in the postseason. Make it into the postseason on a regular basis, and the fan base has hope, regardless of actual trophies secured. Baseball’s problem is the number of teams not making the postseason in the last decade is the highest in pro sports.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

by Rawktober on Nov 5, 2009 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This is what I was talking about. People seem to be trying to look in here for thing that simply aren't reflected there

I’m not trying to measure what fans want their teams to do. These numbers are a historical survey of world series success, nothing more.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

things*

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

this is the point

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 11:13 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, well in the Divisional era

The A’s have 4 WS titles (but only 1 since 1974)
The Reds have 3 WS titles.
The Dodgers, Pirates, Red Sox, Orioles, Twins, Marlins, Cardinals, Phillies, Blue Jays, and Mets have two each.

Divide 41 by the # of titles.

Unquestionably, the Yanks have a great measure of success, but they did go 18 YEARS during that time between titles.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

So it's actually every 5.85 world series, and not 5.85 years.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

which is still pretty crazy

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

(Some years didn't have world series; in my measurements I included those years as if nobody won)

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The only years with no WS, as far as I know...

1917, 1918, 1995.

I included the divisional play era, because on the surface, that’s the best representation of the Steinbrenner era and the free agency era.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

2004?

well can we strike 2007 in that case too?

(:V)

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 10:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Boycotted in 1904

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 10:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I know they went nearly 20 years without a title,

but what are the chances we will see another bad Yankees team again? I suspect that they will never again be a truly bad team, close to the bottom of the division. I bet the worst we will see is something like last year, when they were still a good team but failed to make the playoffs. They are too focused on winning, and willing to spend what it takes.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Since the advent of Free Agency their drought

for the playoffs has not been long.

Playoffs, not Championships, really should be the measure. Once you are in the playoffs, it’s more of a crap shoot.

by Redhawk on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

From 1978-1996

“They are too focused on winning, and willing to spend what it takes.”

The Yankees were focused very much on winning even then, and were willing to spend what it takes.

They just weren’t very good at it. Steinbrenner always spent big money, luring guys like Reggie, Dave Winfield, etc.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

See, I wasn't a baseball fan then, so I don't know what was going on.

But I’ve wondered why they had such a long drought. From what I’ve seen as a fan (from about ‘93 on), they Yankees are always good, and it doesn’t seem like they will ever run out of resources to be good. Their only decline phase, which would normally lead to rebuilding, is when their high priced free agents get old. But then they just go out and sign new ones.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, in their worst years, they were never really that bad

People often dismiss the fact that before their mid 90s run of success, their attendance was down to below 30,000 a game. In a city of 17,000,000, that is inexcusable.

Their long drought has as much to do with lack of development of their own players during that time as anything else. Other than Mattingly, they didn’t really develop much long term in house talent during that time. And they spent on FA after FA after FA, and some worked out and some didn’t.

Think about this last 10-15 years. Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Cano, Petitte, all developed in house.

I guess my point is that the Yanks have always had a serious $$$ advantage since Steinbrenner purchased the team (because he’s willing to spend to win…remember, he bought the club on the relative cheap from CBS). But for long stretches, their front office sucked big time. They have a huge advantage, but they’ve used it smartly. And there are other owners simply more interested in profit than winning. That’s not the Yankees fault.

The reason CBS sold the franchise so cheap? It was losing money and had a declining fanbase, having not won a WS since 1962.

They’ll never run out of resources to be good, but that doesn’t mean they will be good, is what I’m saying, because past history has shown them have the resources, but still not be playoff caliber.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 11:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the real reason for the turnaround of success

was Costanza:

I think I got it. How ’bout this? How ’bout this? We trade Jim Leyritz and Bernie Williams, for Barry Bonds, huh? Whadda ya think?
That way you have Griffey and Bonds, in the same outfield! Now you got
a team!

by Teekalong on Nov 5, 2009 12:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?! He had 30 home runs, over 100 RBIs last year! He’s got a rocket for an arm… You don’t know what the hell you’re doing!

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 12:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Buhner was a good prospect, no question about it. But my baseball people love Ken Phelps' bat. They kept saying 'Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps'.

no question about it. But my baseball people love Ken Phelps’ bat. They kept saying ‘Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps’.

by Teekalong on Nov 5, 2009 12:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

^5

highfive

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

great, great stuff.

HOW COULD YOU GIVE 12 MILLION DOLLARS TO HIDEKI IRABU?!!!!

by Teekalong on Nov 5, 2009 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What's excess?

What defines excess?

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It's just my opinion

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees define excess

Define excess compensation on Wall Street.

You can’t really define it, but it’s there.

And, not coincidentally, in the same city as the “buy a championship at any price” Yankees.

by 6161Maris on Nov 5, 2009 12:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought we weren't supposed to get political

but I’m glad that someone else can impose their arbitrary view of excess on a broad discussion about the value of spending and the merits of methods of spending controls.

You should be on the supreme court.

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [“hard-core pornography”]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it…"- Justice Potter Stewart,

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 2:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Glad I could stir up the conversation

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 5:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

An $80,000,000 infield is excess

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The geography indicated in your username precludes you from making unbiased commentary.

jk

by deacs on Nov 5, 2009 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The discussion topic being the Yankees precludes me from making unbiased commentary

Although I try to come use hard numbers as much as I can :)

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 4:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

~~come~~

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 6:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Death, taxes

Yankees win the pennant, Squeaky’s tired and sick again…

World normal, so it seems.

Carlos Gonzalez is a sexy man

by Squeaky on Nov 5, 2009 10:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

however the Braves did not win the NLE

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

and then lose in the NLDS

I am the Knight Silverblood, chivalrously protecting right-minded people from the dangers of delusioned Yankees fans everywhere.

by Silverblood on Nov 5, 2009 12:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hello again

happy the offseason is here. Like the talking, deals, etc. Did not watch much of the WS as two teams I hate and they are east coast to boot. Therefore I elected to keep my Nielsen household WS free. Hoping for some hot stove to keep me occupied until the next trip to Mexico in a few weeks to watch the MWL.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Nov 5, 2009 12:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Okay, let's get the stove turned on

Jon Garland just got cut loose. I suspect I already know the answer, but any merit in giving him a one year deal at, say, 2009-Marquis money?

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 12:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not in my book. Starting pitching is not a priority right now, and won't be until we get our first bad news on Francis.

In other news, Rockie killer Chad Tracy has left the Diamondbacks, and Bobby Abreu has resigned with the Angels.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 1:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Belisle and Flores sign major league contracts with Rox...

Beimel, as expected, to not be resigned.

I got nothing.

by nkrause on Nov 5, 2009 2:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Beimel definitely won't be signed during the next two weeks during exclusives.

But I disagree with Ringolsby that this rules him out altogether for a return.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 2:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Or, more specifically, another LHP with higher marks than Flores, not necessarily Beimel himself.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 2:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a fan of Flores at all.

A soft tosser with a lazy curveball; last year, not even lefties were fooled by him

Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But if you never quit *and* never win, you are an idiot

by squalene203 on Nov 5, 2009 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, if my memory serves me well, he did a decent job getting opponents out when he was tasked with just that one out.

He struggled when he was tagged to start an inning on his own.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 2:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But I should point out that that doesn't mean I don't think an upgrade would be nice.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 2:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Beimel fits that role nicely.

Keep him, lose Flores.

by RoxnSox09 on Nov 5, 2009 2:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Flores won't be lost.

I’d just rather someone else be there too.

by WolfMarauder on Nov 5, 2009 2:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone's got to say it...

Jesus Flores

"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
NA34 | HK | RMN
"Even our depth has depth." - Silverblood

by oo_nrb on Nov 5, 2009 2:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Flores? Really?

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 6:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah that was kind of my reaction too

If there’s any consolation to be had, he’ll be a one-out lefty guy.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Grimm, what does

Flores por los murdos mean?

by Teekalong on Nov 5, 2009 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hermida traded to the Red Sox for a couple of lefties...

strike Red Sox off list of potential Hawpe pursuers.

I got nothing.

by nkrause on Nov 5, 2009 4:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, Maybe not

Hermida is kind of a 4th OF, tops. Hawpe is a DH if traded to a conscientious AL team, and he’ll be an Adam Dunn lookalike in the NL, meaning a team will try and dump him at 1B and just put up with him in the OF.

I wonder if O’Dowd can push his “defense” (read: arm) as a positive thing

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Man o man is it annoying walking around NY today

Strutting Yankees fans everywhere, and newspapers pronouncing that the “Yankees back to normal — kings of the world again.” (I am not making this up). Ughggghhh.

I am the Knight Silverblood, chivalrously protecting right-minded people from the dangers of delusioned Yankees fans everywhere.

by Silverblood on Nov 5, 2009 3:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Comments I actually heard from Yankee fans today

“We had to wait so long for this. It’s been nine years since we won”

Yep nobody has had to deal with the same type of pain and suffering you have to from 01-08

“Yankees are the team of the decade”

So wait, you’ve had to suffer for most of the decade but you’re team is still better than anyone else?

"This is a true Yankee team"

I don’t even know where to go with that one.

“Girardi needs to change his number from 27 to 28”

You can’t even enjoy this one for 24 hours

I actually heard on NY radio today someone say that the Yankees winning was part of the natural order of the universe. Something like "When the world is right the sun rises in the east, Spring comes after Winter, water freezes at 32 degrees, and the Yankees win the World Series"

I HATE THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 4:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Most of those "fans" probably never saw a Yankees game before 1995

The Yankees’ bandwagon is bigger than most.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 5:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it is pretty bad.

I was talking to my Yankee-fan friend last night before they won and he was all,
“It’s been SOOOO long!”
And God forbid that the Yankees miss the playoffs last year; that’s just too much to take!

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 5:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and in case you needed more reasons to hate the Yankees

Here is a statement released today from George Steinbrenner

"The 2009 New York Yankees proved that we are the best in baseball. We beat truly worthy opponents in the American League Division Series, the American League Championship Series and the World Series. As we did all season long, we fought hard, never lost focus and gave a true team victory. Our players have a lot to be proud of."

"This group will become legendary just like the 26 World Championship teams that preceded them. This team worked hard and deserves great credit for racking up the most wins over a long, tough season."

"We have the greatest fans in the world. They have never wavered in their faith or enthusiasm through the good and bad years. This World Series belongs to them and to all the great Yankees, past, present and future."

"Now the quest for number 28 begins."

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The best part is....

….he wrote that back in 2001…

/rimshot

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Nov 5, 2009 5:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Just change the numbers

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It has to get old sayin the same thing 28 times!

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 5:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

bleh.

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 5:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The part that bothers me the most is

“We have the greatest fans in the world. They have never wavered in their faith or enthusiasm through the good and bad years”

What a steaming hot pile crap that is

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh.

We may not agree, but every single sports team says that about their fans.

by holly96 on Nov 5, 2009 5:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I don't really see what's wrong with this

I mean, touting the whole “legendary team” aspect is a bit presumptuous, but whatever. He praised their opponents and celebrated his team.

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It's the legendary team thing and saying that

the fans never waiver during good or bad years that bothers me.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 6:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

"Longsuffering franchises like NY"

hahaha.

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 4:43 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

well other than the Yankees...

what else does NY sports team are actually good? lol

by Colsportsfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants, I guess.

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 7:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he was talking about the Mets?

by Tom (RFTN) on Nov 5, 2009 5:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Err... she.

by Tom (RFTN) on Nov 5, 2009 5:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats!

to the Yankees, their fans, and the wonderful city of New York.

Now:
150 more days…….21 hours……

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 4:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I enjoyed your fanpost

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 5:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and thank you Rox Girl for writing that up

I needed something to smile about today. It was pure genius.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

A plea to Rox Girl:

As a fellow SC alum, please no more Charlie Weis pictures. I can’t think of a less appetizing duo than him and the Yankees.

by moose14 on Nov 5, 2009 5:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Did the Yankees buy Micheal Phleps too?

or the guy from Gladiator?

by Colsportsfan on Nov 5, 2009 5:52 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Go Timmy Lincecum!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4627319

lol

we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE

thanks for a great season Rockies!

LETS GO WINGS!

by TuLoRocks2008 on Nov 5, 2009 6:31 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

dear Lord he is such a douche

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 5, 2009 6:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

HAWHAHAHAHA!

150+ long days till we meet again...

by prettyinpurple on Nov 5, 2009 7:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I LOVE IT!!!!

I think I like Timmah even more now….not sure why…. But its just so perfect. And please that amount is barely anything.

Dear Rockies - Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster of a season! NL Wild Card Champs. Best turnaround in MLB history for a team to win the Wild Card. Can't wait to do it again next year!

Troy Tulowitzki - MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba - Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Nov 5, 2009 8:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

A little off topic

but keeping with the theme of sports stars encounter with the law.

A couple of years ago Martin Truex Jr. (a Nascar driver) was relieving himself on the side of the highway when a cop pulled up. The cop said “I hope that’s worth 200 bucks” Truex responded with “It is worth 200 bucks” and offered the cop two Benjamins he had in his wallet.

I wonder if Bud Selig will give the Yankees a receipt with their World Series purchase

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Nov 5, 2009 10:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I only sort of committed murder

like I was just killing him a little bit and then he died, that amount of murder is barely anything!

(My high horse in being a baseball fan – citing that baseball players are far less crime prone than NFL and NBA players – is being lowered day by day. Thanks, Tim, you’ve made my list.)

Hope got in my eyes

by Andrew Martin on Nov 6, 2009 8:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You really can't differentiate between possession of drugs purely for personal use

And possession with intent to deal? One crime is way bigger than the other. And your example could easily be the difference between murder and manslaughter – or do you think they should both be punishable the same way? (apologies if in the US you have different terms,manslaughter being unintentional homicide and murder being intentional)

by biondino on Nov 6, 2009 9:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs