My offseason Rockies wishlist

by cowboycr278 on Dec 2, 2009 9:30 PM MST

Please read all of it before passing judgement
Rockies trade Brad Hawpe to the Mets for Bobby Parnnell RHRP & A.Pagan OF

Rockies trade H.Street & Pagan to the Mets plus 2 million in 10 & 11 to the Rangers.
Cubs trade Milton Bradley along with 3.5 million in 10 & 4.5 in 11 to the Rangers. Plus Sean Marshall RHRP & C.Carpenter RHSP AA to the Rockies.
Rangers trade Brandon McCarthy to the Rockies.

Figuring Street would cost @7 million this year + 18 for Hawpe equals 25 million - 4 million to the Rangers...........Rockies save 21 million over the next 2 years.

Rockies sign Mark Hendrickson LHRP

Rockies lineup CF Fowler B, RF CarGo L, 1st Helton L, SS Tulo R, 3rd Stewart L, LF Smith L, 2nd Barmes R, C Iannetta R

rotation Jiminez, Cook, B. McCarthy, JDLR & Hammel

bullpen Bentancourt RH, Daley RH, Parnnell RH 7th, Marshall RH long relief, Hendrickson LH & Morales as closer

AAA rotation E.Rogers, J.Chacin, J.Francis, S.Deduno & G.Smith with Buchholz working out of the pen and Corpus as the closer

AA rotation C.Fedrich, C.Carpenter & G.Reynolds start out the rotation.

This SHOULD leave us in a position to trade a player like A.Cook or prospects if needed at the deadline to improve the team at another position plus we would the cash to make the move......Brandon Phillips comes to mind!! It also leaves us in a position to replinish any injured pitchers that we typically loose throughout the year, while allowing pitchers that where out an entire year (Francis, Buchholz, Smith, Reynolds and you could include Corpus in this) time to rehab and rebuild arm strength, control and endurance.

Cubs are actively looking for a new CF and bullpen help if not a closer upgrade, while trying to trade Bradley. This trade does all of that. For the Rangers.....it's gets them Bradley for McCarthy while not paying much. Exactly what they want.

I would actually prefer the Rockies sent Spilborghs to the Cubs, as I think Pagan has more value. That said by including Pagan into the deal we could end up with even more than I had stated in return.

This would improve the team wouldn't it?

Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).

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No. No it does not.

Brandon McCarthy, when not injured – which is most of the time – is a fly-ball pitcher who doesn’t strike anybody out. Not exactly an ideal fit at Coors. And if he’s all a general manager gets for Huston Street – who, lest we let two poor outings in the postseason cloud our memory, was REALLY FREAKING GOOD in 2009 – plus a perfectly serviceable outfielder AND a pile of money, then that general manager should be thrown off the Qwest Building.

With these moves you’ve made the bullpen worse, turned our best trading chip (Hawpe) into half of Brandon McCarthy and a C+ prospect, and turned one of the NL’s best closers into the other half of Brandon McCarthy. And you’ve wasted four million dollars.

You fail at armchair GM-ing.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2009 8:25 AM MST reply actions

Amendment

I see that we’d also receive Sean Marshall – who I sort of like – and Christopher Carpenter (use the full name, man, make it easier on us), another C+ prospect.

To recap:

Rockies trade:
All-Star caliber, automatic .900 OPS and cost efficient outfielder
All-Star caliber closer with one cost controlled year remaining
“Cash”

Rockies receive:
Four guys who ain’t all that good.

Upon further review, the ruling on the field stands.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2009 8:30 AM MST up reply actions

How much of a future does Hawpe have with us? He is not a Rockie after 2011. So at what point do we move him? We are rumored to only have @ 5 million in payroll flexability as of right now.

Closers are a fickel creature. But signing Street to a 3 year contract IMO means we basically have no faith in Corpus or Casey Weathers ever making a comeback, we have no one that could do the job in between A ball and MLB and Rex Brothers won’t be ready for 4 years.

In all fairness I am not crazy about Brandon McCarthy either….but he isn’t a horrible option for us either and the Rockies are known to have interest in him in the past.

As far as value…..Rockies said they would want a RH OF and a 7th inning guy for Hawpe…….Pagan and Parnnell are exactly that.

Street……how much value does he have? Brandon McCarthy is a #3 starter on a MLB team right now. Sean Marshall, who I may note is also a lefty, is very reliable as a reliever away from Chicago with a ERA in the 2’s if I had to guess……he is much better as a reliever than a starter…. and a solid B prospect in Christopher Carpenter not a C+. But as I mentioned because Pagan is a part of the deal it could result in us getting even more. The value is there, the starter included is the biggest problem, but the value is there.

Face it we are the same team that got swept out of the 1st round of the playoffs last year minus our #3 starter, at least one of our better relievers and our starting catcher at the time.
THE TEAM MUST BE IMPROVED!!!

by cowboycr278 on Dec 3, 2009 9:46 AM MST reply actions

Let's fisk

How much of a future does Hawpe have with us? He is not a Rockie after 2011. So at what point do we move him? We are rumored to only have @ 5 million in payroll flexability as of right now.

I’m all for moving Brad Hawpe. I think he’s our fourth best outfielder right now and the Rockies are better with the speed, upside, and defense of a Smith-Fowler-Gonzalez alignment in 2010 and beyond. But Brad Hawpe is a damn good ballplayer who is locked into a reasonable contract for the next two seasons. There’s some serious value there, particularly to a team who might not have the deep pockets but could use an upgrade in an outfield corner.

Brad Hawpe ranks among the best, most consistent offensive outfielders in all of baseball each of the last four seasons, and if all you can get for him are a 4th/5th outfielder and a C+ prospect, you aren’t trying anywhere near hard enough.

Closers are a fickel creature. But signing Street to a 3 year contract IMO means we basically have no faith in Corpus or Casey Weathers ever making a comeback, we have no one that could do the job in between A ball and MLB and Rex Brothers won’t be ready for 4 years.

I think relievers are certainly fickle – because their sample size of innings pitched is so small it’s possible for a mediocre guy to have a lights out year out of nowhere and for a really good pitcher to turn in a crappy year (ask Raffy Betancourt how 2008 went for him). But closers, particularly the really good ones, are not fickle. Look at Rivera. Hoffman. Nathan. Those guys are good every single year. And through five years of his career, Huston Street has yet to have anything you would consider a ‘bad’ season. There aren’t more than 20 relievers in the game who have displayed the consistency that Street has in five seasons, and even that figure may be generous. He stunk in the playoffs because Tracy overworked him once he got him back from injury and wore him out. Forgive him. Street’s really, really good.

Why should the Rockies have any faith in Corpas? He’s sucked the last two years. Weathers isn’t going to be ready to close in 2010, either – he’s fresh off Tommy John and hasn’t pitched above AA. My opinion – a Street trade would be a punt of the 2010 season. And not a good one, either, more like a Mitch Berger shank job 28 yards into the third row at Mile High.

In all fairness I am not crazy about Brandon McCarthy either….but he isn’t a horrible option for us either and the Rockies are known to have interest in him in the past.

So you’ll settle for ‘not horrible’ in exchange for Huston Street. Nonsensical.

As far as value…..Rockies said they would want a RH OF and a 7th inning guy for Hawpe…….Pagan and Parnnell are exactly that.

And yet you’re turning around and flipping Pagan. Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn’t it?

Street……how much value does he have?

Um, more than you’re giving him credit for? Street meant a whole hell of a lot to the Rockies last year and stands to mean a whole hell of a lot to them in 2010, you can’t replace that value with the pu-pu platter you’re suggesting we get for him.

Brandon McCarthy is a #3 starter on a MLB team right now.

Meaningless. Also, false – McCarthy will be behind Hunter, Feldman, Millwood and probably Holland in 2010 in the Texas rotation – but even if it weren’t, it’s still meaningless.

Sean Marshall, who I may note is also a lefty, is very reliable as a reliever away from Chicago with a ERA in the 2’s if I had to guess……he is much better as a reliever than a starter….

Why guess? BB-ref.com is your friend. Survey says:

Marshall as starter: 4.86 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, .271 OAVG
Marshall as reliever: 3.15 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, .243 OAVG

Better? Yeah, sure, because he gets to face nothing but lefties in his role as a reliever and is much better against them. How much better? Actually, well, let’s just say he’s not exactly Joe Beimel. Lefties have hit .243/.329/.421 against him in his career. This is not a guy you accept in return for your closer.

And a solid B prospect in Christopher Carpenter not a C+.

8th on BA’s list, 19th on John Sickels’ Preseason Top 20 list with Sickels saying that he’s “moving up the charts quickly.” Sickels had him as a C before the season started. He might be a B now, maybe a B-. Better than I thought, it turns out – I wasn’t terribly impressed with the AA numbers, but he’s fairly well regarded. Still, keep in mind that a Top-10 Cubs prospect probably doesn’t sniff most other team’s Top 10 list – the Cubs farm is pretty barren.

Face it we are the same team that got swept out of the 1st round of the playoffs last year

Not true. Also, when somebody says ‘Face it’ it really cracks me up, it’s a pretty weak argumentative crutch.

minus our #3 starter, at least one of our better relievers and our starting catcher at the time.
THE TEAM MUST BE IMPROVED!!!

Sure it does. Please explain how trading one guy with 33 saves and another guy with 23 jacks, 86 RBI, and a .903 OPS for two middling middle relievers, a prospect who struggled in AA last year, and Brandon Freaking McCarthy improves the Rockies for 2010. It’s not that I disagree with trading Hawpe or even the principle idea that money saved can be money spent on other weaknesses, but the simple fact is that these trades suck because you’re trading two very valuable players for 35 cents on the dollar.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton

by Franchise26 on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Sorry I don't know how to do multiple qoutes on here yet.

Pagan is a starting LF or CF for many MLB teams right now. Parnnell should be able to
handle our 7th inning job………again that is the value the Rockies are asking for.

I never said I would count on Corpus or Weathers for 2010 but maybe 2011. Also……my thought for closer to replace Street, Franklin Morales.

McCarthy, would plug into the rotation and be a vast improvement over the void that we currently have….as Francis and all other in house options are unknowns. I agree that McCarthy is not great…….no arguement. But we need another starter that is undeniable.

Sean Marshall’s stats……….one MAJOR thing you didn’t factor in………how much better he pitches on the road that in Chicago….his ERA over the last 3 years is 1.37 points lower on the road…….that is why I had to guess. Also he is a groundball guy……….he is the kind of guy we want to add to our bullpen.

Prospects value can change quick over a season……see Lars Anderson of the Red Sox. But the best prospects have flopped and the worst have excelled. You can only take your best guess on prospects, but I agree the Cubs system is nothing to rave about.

Face it for me, means most people have an overly optimistic view of thier team and they need to try and keep it in check.

The Hawpe trade is a good value trade, hands down.
The Street trade is the one that I even said I thought we could do better. I’d love to say we could move Street to Boston for Bucholz & Lars Anderson……..but I just don’t see it. I see us trading us moving Street because if you weight what he brings to the team against what the team needs, what the team can get and the amount of money it would cost to keep him vs. getting a decent starter in here.

by cowboycr278 on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 AM MST up reply actions

Sean Marshall’s stats……….one MAJOR thing you didn’t factor in………how much better he pitches on the road that in Chicago

He most certainly does not.

Career numbers for Sean Marshall:
@ the Confines: 4.71 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 1.89 K/BB, .755 OOPS
On the road: 4.39 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 1.75 K/BB, .787 OOPS

Is there another Sean Marshall that pitches for the Cubs that I don’t know about?

Marshall’s probably the least objectionable acquisition I can see from your trade idea, but that’s not saying much.