Saturday Rockpile: Pitchers and catchers report to Tucson; Mount Rockmore; Hurdle seemingly not concerned about his future; Livan still lives.
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Feb 14, 2009 9:26 AM MST
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PrintIn what is usually the first sign that spring is on its way (for me, anyway), Colorado's pitchers and catchers are reporting to Spring Training in Tucson, AZ today. It isn't looking much like spring where I'm at, though, so I envy the guys. As always, Purple Row will be your one-stop place for all things Rockies during ST.
MOUNT ROCKMORE
Taking a page from ESPN's book, the Rocky Mountain News has come up with a poll to decide who would appear the Rockies' version of Mount Rushmore. If you haven't already, you should go vote on who you think are the 4 greatest players to ever wear purple and silver. Personally, I think 3 of the 4 (Helton, Walker, Castilla) are a relatively easy choice, based on performance and longevity with the club. However, the fourth could spark some debate. Here are the rest of the RMN's choices:
Dante Bichette: Outfielder, 7 seasons with the Rockies
Ellis Burks: Outfielder, 5 seasons with the Rockies
Vinny Castilla: Third baseman, 9 seasons with the Rockies
Aaron Cook: Starting pitcher, 7 seasons with the Rockies
Jeff Francis: Starting pitcher, 5 seasons with the Rockies
Brian Fuentes: Relief pitcher, 7 seasons with the Rockies
Andres Galarraga: First baseman, 5 seasons with the Rockies
Todd Helton: First baseman, 12 seasons with the Rockies
Jason Jennings: Starting pitcher, 6 seasons with the Rockies
Matt Holliday: Outfielder, 5 seasons with the Rockies
Larry Walker: Outfielder, 10 seasons with the Rockies
Eric Young: Second baseman, 5 seasons with the Rockies
Who do you think the fourth should be? Seems like kind of a tough decision for me. I'm leaning toward Holliday, but obviously good cases can be made for guys like Bichette, Galarraga, and even Brian Fuentes.
HURDLE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT CONTRACT SITUATION
The Cowboy checks in with an article about Clint Hurdle being in the final year of his contract. A lot of it is the same drivel that we've heard from Clint countless times before, but one part of the story intrigued me:
What Hurdle feels he can control is keeping himself focused on what it takes for the Rockies to erase the memories of the disappointment of 2008 and rekindle the 2007 excitement created by the organization's first World Series appearance. He said the emphasis will be on fundamentals, such as advancing runners and hitting cutoff men. He will work to get the projected regulars more spring at-bats so they will be tuned up for the start of the season, and he will give the pitchers more work, including an extra start for each member of the rotation and more back- to-back appearances for relievers.
I like the idea of Hurdle letting the starters (both pitching and position players) get more reps in Tucson, especially with the way this team came out of the gates the last couple of seasons. Of course, we'll all be watching closely to see if it pays off, and (knock on wood) hopefully the players are able to get the additional work in without injury.
LIVAN KEEPS LIVIN'
The New York Daily News reports that the Mets agreed to terms with ancient righty (and former Rockie, of course) Livan Hernandez on a one-year minor league deal work $1MM plus incentives. Similar to the situation with the Rockies, the Mets have a large pool of competitors for the fifth spot in their starting rotation (Hernandez along with Jon Niese, Tim Redding, and Freddy Garcia).
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The fourth should
be equivalent to Teddy Roosevelt: He’s good and all, but does he really deserve to be up there with the other guys?
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
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Maybe A Coach
Hurdle or Baylor for the playoff appearances.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
JFK
Some thoughts on the fourth spot
Kevin Ritz – first Rockie to win 17 games
Jerry McMorris – saved the franchise from dissolution before the first game was played
by WanderingRoxFan on Feb 14, 2009 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
What?
Teddy was a war hero, who recruited his own regiment and armed it for the Cuban war. He was also influential as a President on both sides of the aisle busting monopolies as well as setting aside lands for National Parks and organizing conservation projects. Plus he looked great in the Night at the Museum movie.
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
The War of 1898 or the Spanish-American War, but
who calls it the Cuban war? All I’m saying is that TR only got on there as a result of the time in which Mount Rushmore was constructed.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
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Or you could call it...
The War Where the US Bullied the Spanish and Sunk It’s Own Ship in Havana Harbor to Force a War and Take all of the Spanish Colonies. The only real fighting was in Cuba.
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
The US didn't sink the Maine.
It was a war of imperialism, though.
We are truly in the presense of greatness here…-- unnamedDBacksfan
by DbacksSkins on Feb 17, 2009 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Going beyond their reputations,
Taft was actually more of a trust-buster than TR was.
We are truly in the presense of greatness here…-- unnamedDBacksfan
NERRRDDDDSSSSSS
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
by Andrew Martin on Feb 17, 2009 9:43 AM MST up reply actions
So you don't want
to read Woodrow Wilson, Higher Realism, and the Pursuit of a Rockies World Series Championship?
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
The Rough Riders:
Brooks Brothers’ most heroic hour.
Having just gotten back from the Grand Canyon, I have to give TR props for the National Parks system.
We are truly in the presense of greatness here…-- unnamedDBacksfan
by DbacksSkins on Feb 17, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
Agree
We probably need to wait awhile before the greatest Rockies are “set in stone”.
by pedalpusher on Feb 14, 2009 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Also agree on this
Helton seems the only one that would warrant semi-immortalization on Rockmore
I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball.
Pete Rose
by pat on the rox on Feb 14, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
and possibly Larry Walker
Holliday would have been a shoe-in, but only five seasons…Aah, what could have been
I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball.
Pete Rose
by pat on the rox on Feb 14, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
Great minds
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
by DbacksSkins on Feb 14, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
Larry Walker?
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
by DbacksSkins on Feb 14, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
Oh!
Yeah, only just caught myself there!
I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball.
Pete Rose
by pat on the rox on Feb 14, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
In 10 years
I hope that our list looks something like -
Todd Helton
Tulo
Ubaldo Jimenez
CDI
by WanderingRoxFan on Feb 14, 2009 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Might throw
Car Gon and Dexter Fowler in the mix there, too! Aah potential!
I'd be willing to bet you, if I was a betting man, that I have never bet on baseball.
Pete Rose
by pat on the rox on Feb 14, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
My top four right now...
Helton
Walker
Bichette
Holliday
Why Holliday over Castilla? Because of Rocktober. Castilla was great and all, but Holliday in Rocktober usurps Castilla’s image. However, in a few years Holliday’s exploits won’t be so fresh in my mind and I’ll pick someone else.
Eschew Obfuscation!
I'd have trouble picking Bichette over Vinny...
Throwing Holliday up there isn’t a bad idea right now, but Castilla should be in there over Bichette, if for no other reason then because he was with the team for a longer period of time. Though, Bichette was a heck of an athlete in addition to being a great offensive player.
Rock rock 'til you drop!
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Feb 14, 2009 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
I just think that...
Bichette was a better player for the Rockies than Castilla was..those extra four years that Vinny was here, nothing of consequence really happened, so I wouldn’t use longevity as an argument for Vinny’s enshrinement.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Nahhh
I’m going to take a different approach. Mount rockmore should be:
Galarraga
Castilla
Walker (wearing batting helmet backwards)
Holliday (with a big ol scrape on his chin)
Then, just across the valley there should be a single, much larger monument to Helton ala the Crazy Horse sculpture. All those other Rockies are marginally tainted by having played (or soon will) for other teams, and while that doesn’t exclude them from Rockie greatness…. It doesn’t allow them the title of uber-Rockie.
Oh, and then on the observation deck there should be a series of action pose sculptures including: EY’s first HR in Denver, Bichette’s first homer at Coors, and Barmes falling down some steps with a deer. I’d pay $5 to get into that State Park.
It's been said already
But I’m gonna say it again (and I’ll kind of be just reiterating IowaRockie)
This team is too young for this kind of a conversation. I mean, talk about it, sure, but this is like saying the Tampa Bay Rays are an awful franchise or the Marlins are a great one.
This Colorado Rockies team is just old enough to get its driver’s license, and we’re trying to pick out the greatest? Impossible.
I could only pick 2 Greatest Rockies, and even then it’s incomplete.
My two, and they should be no brainers, are Larry Walker and Todd Helton.
These two are guys who are the greatest players who’ve played in Coors. I’m a major fanboy of ability to take a walk, and THEN supplementing it with power, and Helton and Walker have displayed excellent ability for both over the courses of their career. Both were/are excellent defenders at their positions. Walker had the ability to see a base when the situation presented itself, as well.
The issue is that Rockies Greatest #1 played half his career in Montreal and was constantly injured, and #2’s career still has a year or two (or more, depending on his back) left in it.
Dante Bichette and Vinny Castilla are sentimental favorites of the Rockies faithful while being some of the biggest benefactors of the Pre-humidor Denver Baseball. Bichette could never take a walk, was slow as mud, and was average at best in LF/RF. Take that and multiply it by 2 and you have Vinny Castilla.
So if you’re just talking the “Greatest” Rockies, we need more guys who’ve spent almost their entire career here, and then we can talk numbers.
Check back with me in 30 years.
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
How many guys are slow as mud
and pull off a 30-30 season? The guy had over 150 stolen bases in his career.
"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 14, 2009 6:38 PM MST up reply actions
maybe he meant mentally...
of course I don’t know how this would be validated. SAT scores or something?
Glad you enjoy that picture....
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
by Andrew Martin on Feb 14, 2009 9:18 PM MST up reply actions
yea,
I checked back to the thread but it was too late to say thank you since the conversation had moved on so I figured this was the best way to pay homage. Thank you RMN, we are all indebted to you.
or horrified by me
either way, free time can be a marvelous thing
speaking of free time, I should really start writing wednesday’s column at some point.
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
by Andrew Martin on Feb 14, 2009 11:45 PM MST up reply actions
Yes you should
We’re all expecting to read something we’ve never read before on Jason Marquis.
"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 15, 2009 12:00 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I take it back on Dante
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
by Andrew Martin on Feb 14, 2009 9:17 PM MST up reply actions
What can we discuss
when the Rockies reach the legal drinking age?
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Perhaps by then
The Row will have become such a powerful force in the media that we, and we alone, will decide such weighty matters as who belongs on Mount Rockmore. Or, there will be a PR Brewpub providing the Rox with their celebratory beverages. Either way, The Row rules!
I cannot say whether things will get better if we change; what I can say is they must change if they are to get better. -Georg C. Lichtenberg:
Why Torrealba is still with the team
oh man that’s not even funny
Seriously, it’s a fun conversation to have, but there’s not much weight to it. I mean like you could make 2 or 3 starting lineups of just Great Yankees. It’s not a fair comparison, obviously, because the Yankees have been playing about 100 years longer than the Rockies have.
And that’s kind of the point. We have a RF and a 1B.
I mean seriously, Walt Weiss as a Rockies Great? Jeff Reed? Q? I don’t think so.
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
by Andrew Martin on Feb 15, 2009 12:07 AM MST up reply actions
We're what, 16?
I think we just started dating and our dad is mad about it.
Bichette gets the nod
As I said in my blog over at Bugs & Cranks, Bichette gets the nod because he was the first star of the franchise. There was always an electricity around the park when he’d come to the plate – especially in the late innings.
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