Monday Rockpile: When it all started

by Russ Oates on Feb 2, 2009 8:08 AM MST in Rockpile

I was looking around the site's archives for what was happening around this time over the last two years and found the source of Rox Girl's ill-placed bets with the Snakepit. It all started with this little piece, "Wishful Thinking." It was about players fans secretly didn't want on their team. And look at the first team and player she listed. Burying it somewhere in the middle or at the end, maybe Jim never would have responded to it and Rox Girl would not have written her response, "ARE YOU READY FOR A CHALLENGE???!!!" Yes, she really did write that in all capital letters and with extra punctuation.

And that first bet for those who don't know what it was:

I propose putting up our "last year's Opening Day starter on another team" up against Arizona's:

RODRIGO LOPEZ vs LIVAN HERNANDEZ

Yes, bold lettering and in capitals--quite provocative. That, my friends, is the reason why we had Snakepit Day here last year, why we will have it in a couple of weeks, and we we will continue to have it: bold and capital letters. Being emphatic is one thing, being bold is another.

Now that I'm done with the trip down memory lane, here are a few links:

Jhoulys Chacin's mentor: Ubaldo Jimenez. Thomas Harding speculates that Chacin should receive an invite to ST.
Corey Wimberly answered some questions for Batting Around. Wimberly answered the "misperception about the minors" question almost the same as Chris Nelson did.
Patrick Saunders writes about the triumvirate the Rockies need to rely on for a successfull 2009: Atkins, Iannetta, Tulo. Let's hope they don't turn out to be a Roman triumvirate.

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Comments

Off-Topic, but

did anyone else feel a bit nostalgic during the Super Bowl yesterday, hearing Alan Roach doing the PA announcements?

by oo_nrb on Feb 2, 2009 9:37 AM MST reply actions

Yep, I mentioned that on one of yesterday's posts.

I definitely enjoy hearing him anytime I can, whether it’s the Super Bowl or a train at DIA.

by holly96 on Feb 2, 2009 12:34 PM MST up reply actions

We do need Atkins to rebound

But getting our expectancies up as him being an INTEGRAL PLAYER are really just setting us up for disappointment. Either he comes out flat on his face, or he comes out strong, gets traded, and then the fans and Woody Paige call everyone terrible cheapskates who should be fired so they can go out and should’ve signed Sabathia and Teixeira and blah blah blah blah, and then we get a good pitcher back in his place or something of the like.

Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum

by Andrew Martin on Feb 2, 2009 9:45 AM MST reply actions

Since I'm one of the very few that thinks Atkins still has something left in the tank

I think he needs to rebound for a different reason than impoving trading posibilities….We need a right-handed bat in the middle of the order capable of driving in runs. And I know most of you don’t think much of RBIs as a stat, but hey someone’s got to drive them in.

by pedalpusher on Feb 2, 2009 10:36 AM MST up reply actions

More specifically

Atkins needs to hit better than .225, and slug better than .400, with RISP. Think of traditional hitting statistics split for RISP as a more comprehensive substitute for RBI. I don’t care if it was a product of a .225 BABIP with RISP, good hitters can create better luck with a better approach. Atkins has the ability to be a very good hitter, and can produce better numbers more consistent with his 2006 season.

Think about this: for every 20 at bats with RISP and 2 outs, Atkins made about 15 outs. He can do better than that.

Anyway, not to beat a dead horse, but if Helton is healthy enough to play 3 or 4 times each week, and Stewart doesn’t turn into the Josh Fields of ‘09, there’s no reason not to move Atkins for good pitching (assumes Stewart at 3rd, Smith in LF, Barmes, etc at 2B). Atkins is A) getting older, and even with a good full season won’t recoup the value he had after ‘07 and ’08; and B) isn’t going to be any more the run producing force than Stewart would be at 3B. Except for BA, the CHONE numbers have them pretty close for production over a full season in ’09. What will make an immediate difference is another front-line pitcher, which can probably be had in-season from a team that is struggling for production at the corners or DH.

by deacs on Feb 2, 2009 10:57 AM MST up reply actions

Define

front-line pitcher

"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions

Kevin Slowey, Scott Baker,

Homer Bailey, Ervin Santana, Nick Adenhart, Brandon Morrow. Maybe not Adenhart. But someone young in that talent range (I went with teams linked to Atkins speculation this winter) would be a possible target if the team wanted to make an in-season change.

by deacs on Feb 2, 2009 12:25 PM MST up reply actions

Do we think

that teams are willing to part with that type of talent for 1 1/2 years out of Atkins? It seemed like there was much of a return value being offered for him this winter.

by BlakeBomber on Feb 2, 2009 12:33 PM MST up reply actions

Typo

I meant there wasn’t much of a return value.

by BlakeBomber on Feb 2, 2009 12:34 PM MST up reply actions

Maybe

if we throw in Street and a prospect or something…

by Resolution on Feb 2, 2009 7:49 PM MST up reply actions

I'd like to keep Street

I think he has a lot of upside for us, especially since Corpas lost the MoJo hed had in ’07. If Corpas comes back strong this season and Buchholz builds off of ’08, then we can talk about throwing Street into a deal.

by BlakeBomber on Feb 3, 2009 9:06 AM MST up reply actions

No chance

Atkins turns into one of those guys you mention, IMO.

by Hizilla on Feb 2, 2009 12:46 PM MST up reply actions

Concur

My hope is that he starts putting up 2nd half 2007 numbers so that he looks more like 2006 Atkins and gets people excited.

Also if he can keep a steady glove, he’ll still have like zero range at 3B, but his fielding percentage will be high, and that oughta fool a few managers.

Thing is, no team is going to look at Atkins as a guy to build around, so we’re not gonna see like a Mark Buerhle or Brandon Webb or Erik Bedard out of him. If a team was selling all its older parts to basically cycle in the young guys, like the Padres or someone, they wouldn’t mind a big guy to come in for several years while the younguns take their places, but Atkins isn’t going to be a long term guy at this rate.

Most likely trading Atkins will be to a team that’s on the cusp of competing, and needs his “big bat” to push them over the edge. That results in a nice shiny blue chip prospect.

Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum

by Andrew Martin on Feb 2, 2009 3:23 PM MST up reply actions

Or

a team with excess back end pitching like Minnesota. deacs mentioned Slowey and Baker, but I don’t think that they’re gonna get rid of one of their top 3. On the other hand, I could see them letting one of Perkins, Blackburn, Humber or Mulvey if they are lucky. The flip side of this is that going into spring training, the Rockies have an excess of back end pitching themselves, albeit not of the quality that the Twins have.
Again – my biggest hope, is that letting Atkins attempt to reestablish value doesn’t hurt Stewart’s development.

by Hizilla on Feb 2, 2009 3:46 PM MST up reply actions

As I recall

We were pushing for like Blackburn and Span and/or Slowey

Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum

by Andrew Martin on Feb 2, 2009 9:47 PM MST up reply actions

Twins Pitching

Perkins wouldn’t exactly be just a consolation prize. He’s like Greg Smith with an actual repertoire of pitches. If Atkins hits well in the first half, Blackburn plus an outfielder (maybe if it was Delmon Young) wouldn’t cut it, and should draw the ire of the people who dislike the Holliday trade. Blackburn is no different than Greg Smith.

Keep in mind that the Dodgers saw Casey Blake as a big piece to their puzzle last July (Manny was a last minute bonus). Blake is a worse defender over the years (some years Atkins can keep it together), much older, and a far inferior bat. And they Indians got a pretty decent return for him. Like I said earlier, expectations on a return can be realistically greater during the season, especially when Atkins is still in arbitration years.

As for MagicNumber mentioning Bedard, he’s one guy I was going to mention as a possible target originally. But, I thought he’d fallen too far, and was actually more of a guy that would’ve been a fair straight up deal for Atkins this off-season. As the Mariners have Beltre, that wouldn’t really fit anyway.

by deacs on Feb 2, 2009 10:13 PM MST up reply actions

That was the point I was trying to make, that guys like Blackburn/Perkins are no longer upgrades over what the team has in the back end now in Smith/Marquis (I won’t mention JDLR because I am hoping/expecting him to be considerably better than the other 2). Picking nits, James, CHONE and Marcel all like Blackburn better than Perkins for this year, I haven’t really seen enough of either to go one way or the other on them. If I had to say, I felt like Blackburn was a little more consistent last year and has a decent track record – 196IP (James) is probably a tad optimistic IMO.

Anyway – you point out that Cleveland got Carlos Santana out of half a season of Casey Blake. Really a steal for Cleveland in that deal. Like you say, Atkins is arb eligible for another year, and a superior player (Atkins’ D is debatable – but i’m in the group that thinks that it is not as bad as his reputation, at least in 2008). Like you say – if they can turn him into a ‘blue chip’ prospect (like a Santana type), I would be ecstatic (although the commentors on Renck’s articles, or those that call into the Fan may not agree).

by Hizilla on Feb 2, 2009 11:33 PM MST up reply actions

If the Indians could get Carlos Santana for Blake

surely Atkins could net us Chuck Berry.

Sorry…couldn’t resist. At least there is a Chuck Berry in MLB, albeit as an agent.

"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 11:47 PM MST up reply actions

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 11:37 AM MST up reply actions

I don't think anyone get's it right....

Check out the top ten results on Google:
http://tinyurl.com/bcg7e8

Jhoulys (pronounced JEWELies) Chacin
whose first name is pronounced “yo-LEES” and last name is pronounced “cha-SEEN”
who says his name is pronounced “YO-liss”
which is pronounced Ju-lees
Remember, it’s pronounced Sha-Seeeeeeeeen
I believe it’s Houlys. Julian is said like Hulian

Don’t even try to think of how Frazier is going to handle it — or your head will explode.

by BlakeBomber on Feb 2, 2009 12:30 PM MST up reply actions