Joey Votto: The next Todd Helton?
This comes from Red Reporter, our Reds blog. Just wanted to point this story out. Oh, and who didn't expect a comment there about steroids?
about 3 years ago
Russ Oates
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Somehow I doubt
that Votto will challenge 400 into September and have a .372-42-147 and 1.117 OPS year in him. Just a completely baseless yet confident hunch.
"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 2:37 PM MST reply actions
I don't get it
What is the evidence that Helton used steroids? Just his stats in 2000-01?
The other "evidence"
Helton’s rapidly declining performance, failing physical health and Wayne Hagin’s statement.
Certainly nothing conclusive, but that’s all some people need to personally indict someone.
"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 6:05 PM MST up reply actions
Wow, it's links like that..
Which remind me how good PR really is. What’s with the language? Do people that follow Ohio/Kentucky baseball have to speak like 10-year olds to get their point across?
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
+12
"Winning doesn't really matter as long as you win." - Vinny Jones
by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 2, 2009 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
I've been to enough Reds games to know that this is generally true.
And even then, finding a point usually takes some pretty strange leaps of logic.
Having been to Kentucky
Hmmm… the one baseball fan I know from Kentucky is pretty smart. But he’s a Cubs fan, not a Reds fan. So we’ll leave this at “maybe.”
Hagin's comments
Even Wayne Hagin stepped back and said the Helton was never on steriods. Why is it that people will accept what they want to hear as fact, but choose to ignore comments from the exact same person when those comments no longer are supportive of thier slanted point.
Everyone talks about Helton’s rapidly declining health. Let me see I think he pulled a muscle a couple of years ago, but the vast majority of his health issues have always had to do with his back. In fact, I just did a Google search and I found a knee injury at the University of Tennasee that allowed some back up QB by the name of Payton Manning to play, but other than that all I am seeing is back issues. Is it possible that the guys just has a bad back from years of high torque swings of a baseball bat?
Also, I am not doctor, but I thought that steriods tend to make the joints stiff and make a guy less agile. Have you seen Helton play first base? Even with the bad back he is one of the best defensive first basemen out there. His ability to pull balls out of the dirt had a lot to do with the fact that the Rockies in 2007 had the best defensive team in the history of MLB.
I am not naive, I am sure there are plenty of players that I watched through the years that I though were clean that were not. However, to go after a guys career on the basis of some stupid misunderstanding from an ex-broadcaster is not fair. Until someone shows me some facts, I will post every time I see remarks like this that I think you are full of crap it you think Helton was taking steriods.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
People like gossip
What was the old saying?…something like small minds talk about people, large minds talk about ideas. Most people want to gossip…steroids are a juicy topic (I’m very Punny!)
As for Helton using steroids…well, we’ll never know for sure. I for one think he did, and the main reason I think he did is he’s smaller now by about 10-15 lbs of muscle. But before I go further, I have to stay, I don’t have the big scary, evil, thought of steroids as most do. Personally, I see them like advanced sports nutrition/medician when used properly, and also, I think a vast majority of major league players used them (60-75%), Most I think used small amounts to keep themselves healthy and to have the regeneration affects to bounce back from game to game. I think many pitchers did this, and always assumed Pedro Martinez was a prime example. He never got big…but he threw too hard and too long for his small frame.
The problem with steroids now…is anyone that used them, also would be reaching the end of any natural career. It’s hard to know if declines are due to age…or to the effects of no longer being on steroids, which seems to leave the body weaker and more injury prone once steroids are discontinued. Which is also the case with an aging body.
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
We will never know for sure.
Your are right, fans such as you and I will never know for a fact who was using and who wasn’t. I would like to think you estimate of 60-75% is high, but who knows it maybe right. I like your comment about small minds talk about people and large minds talk about ideas. I think there is a lot of that going around. Not just in sports but in general.
As far as Todd being smaller now I would point out 2 things.
1. The intestinal disease that he had caused him to loose a lot of weight. About 8 years ago I had a much less serious digestive system issue. I went from 185 to 155. I am 6’2" and thought I look horrible at 155 pounds but I was happy with the way I looked at 185. I have worked hard to try to put that weight back on. Now 9 years later I am only back up to 165. Granted I do not have a personal trainer and nutritionist, but my point is adding that weight back after a digestive system issue is not always that easy.
2. I did a quick Google search but was unable to find the quote were Helton said he was trying to loose weight in order to help with his back issues. I will try to find it later, but I am already late for work. As much as I love talking Rockies baseball, it does not put food on the table so I am sorry for my lack of factual support. Maybe one of my fellow Google geeks will be able to find it before I get back to it.
I guess you are free to you opinion that he was on steroids. I for one want proof, and I do not think that the circumstantial evidence that I have seen is enough to make me doubt him when he said he did not use them.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
how many used 'roids?
I’ve read some estimates of up to 90%…which I think is too high. Again we’ll never know, but if I assumed every player used steroids during the 90’s I still think I’m right about 6 or 7 times out of 10..and only wrong 3 or 4 times…so using that it’s easy for me to say “he was on roids”
Now personally I don’t think of that as a condemnation. It was how things were set-up and done. My favorite player was Ivan Rodriguez and he for sure was on steroids, as was that whole Texas Ranger team (Palmero, Juan Gone, Canseco, etc). I don’t have an issue with that at all.
"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009
Maybe we don't agree on the total number
but I think we can agree that it was widespread enough that trying to go back and re-write the record books is an excercise if futiility and frustration. As much as I can not stand Barry Bonds, he is the home run leader. Of course I would not like him even if there were no doubt he was clean and he was a good guy in the club house. He was a Giant, as a Rockies fan it is in my purple DNA to not like him. I am still holding out that Helton was clean. Maybe he wasn’t but I will need proof. Again, maybe it is that whole purple DNA thing again.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Anybody else watching the Puerto Rico/Mexico game on MLB Network?
It’s baseball! And it’s live!
Follow me on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/rockiesmagicnum
PR's pitching well...
7 innings and only 3 hits, 2 runs so far.
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
Uball declined invitation...
The Padres firstbaseman Adrian Gonzalez finished the game with 2 RBI’s to power Mexico over PR 3-2. Incidentally, Ubaldo turned down an invitation to pitch for Mexico in the Caribbean Series. The Orange County Register has a nice summary of the game and other pitchers that declined to play for Mexico in the series.
Keepin' warm by the hot stove season.
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