Who are the other 103????

Schilling reportedly spent the next several hours perusing the Internet to see if anyone had made a comment about him to which he should respond; finding none, Schilling played five hours of video games without a shirt on.

I think we’re going to look back on the Roid Era and judge all the players that came from it much differently 20 years down the road than we do now. I think we’ll have more of an understanding on how widespread it was, and if the game can be cleaned up with more stringent drug testing, we’ll have a better idea of the type of numbers people put up in the post-Roid Era. From there, that’s where HOF credentials for the Roid-Era players, users and non-users alike, will be judged. And, as they say, time heals all wounds.

There’s an exhibit at the Hall for the Black Sox, I believe. I would think there will be something similar for the Roid Era. A celebration of the great players who may have benefitted from an advantage that was later deemed illegal.

isn’t a meaningful change in how players conduct themselves, but the bliss of ignorance. Players have always looked for the edge. The only thing that has changed is that huge increase in money that’s poured into the sport has increased the lengths players can go to acquire PEDs and the incentives for rouge chemists and suppliers to profit from it.

But I’ll guarantee you that there was no widespread suspicsion pre-PEDs as to who was juiced and whether or not their records were tainted.

As I said, that’s not a change in the attitude of the era, it’s a change in the level of media coverage and the attitude of its reporting. Greenies changed the game by allowing players to play a 156 game schedule without so many off days. The only reason that it seems like steroids have had such a warping effect on the game (the era of offense), is that it’s been combined with a number of other factors that have combined to push offense through the roof: the general change in beliefs starting in the 80’s that weight lifting was no longer taboo, expansion diluting the quality of the average pitcher, a change in understanding that has placed an increased value on walks and power, the demise of the pitcher friendly multi-use parks and the rise of the mini-stadium (Great American Ballpark, Citizen’s Bank Park), expansion to cities that by nature are offense-oriented (Phoenix, Colorado), the desire to create more revenues in parks that led teams like the Dodgers to drastically reduce the amount of foul territory in the park in order to add more premium seating.

The game isn’t static and it can never go back to being what it was like in the 70’s. That being said, I think what you consider to be the “steroid era” is a confluence of many effects, most of which have nothing to do with the drug. The feeling you have that they are changing the game is largely the result of media hype and self-righteousness.

However, the following are also true:

a) there are positive tests on the books with regard to Bonds (whether or not they are admissible in cour);
b) his “undetectable” steroids came via BALCO, and there’s no evidence that anyone else worked with BALCO who hasn’t already been implicated in BALCO paperwork and leaked;
c) no one else had their head explode in size x3 over the years in question

Seriously, if the “non-detectable” steroid was anywhere near as prevalent, then why is it that all of the athletes in other sports tied to those steroids, also tied directly to BALCO? In other words, there’s no indication that the issue of non-detectable steroids is a significant number of players.

Steroids are illegal because they have been scientifically proven harmful. The government is not the problem here. If they were not illegal, then it wouldn’t be cheating. But it’s not the government’s “fault” that steroids are illegal. Steroids are illegal because they should be illegal.

Don’t do those steroids..that got the whole world excited about baseball like Sosa and McGwire did with their home runs now kiddos!

Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge

Perry lubed up the ball his entire career, which was legal once and wasn’t legal when he played. He got his 300 wins and he’s in Cooperstown.

I don’t know that I’d keep any steroid user out of the Hall of Fame. It’s hard to say one way or another, from where I sit. Great players are great players and great players belong in the Hall. Some would say that if you voted Bonds, Clemens, etc. in, you’d have to let Pete Rose and Joe Jackson in too. And I don’t know that I wouldn’t be OK with that. But I’ll likely never have a vote, and I think the people that do have built up such a pious moral outrage that we won’t see plaques for the greats of this era who are known steroid users, only an exhibit the likes of which might say “Hey, these guys were great but they thrived in an era where steroids were commonly and frequently used. Judge them how you wish. But they are here. They belong here.”

maple bats don’t cause cancer and “bat rage”, either.

PED’s are a very sensitive subject for baseball fans – thus, emotional arguments are frequently applied. Naturally, maple bats and steroids don’t share all qualities in common – I expect he’s attempting to draw a parallel to something less petulant in an effort to foster arguments based on logic and reasoning.

Like you say, that was before all the crap with other players (like Clemens, Palmeiro, etc.) denying it and then evidence coming out. I think now, after all of that, people would much rather have guys do what Giambi and now A-Rod have done.

I don’t think anybody cares anymore that Giambi did steroids. I think fans have been far more willing to move on with him than they were with Bonds and Clemens because Giambi copped to it. The guys who have taken the biggest beating from fans about steroid use are the ones who lied repeatedly even in the face of mounting evidence.

I said I forgave him. Big difference. If you want to continue to demonize him as all that is evil in the world and in baseball, that’s your right. But I’m ready to move on.

For me the difference is that some guys have continued to deny it even after they got caught. So his confession is certainly nothing that should be celebrated, since he still cheated, but at least he’s not going the Bonds or Clements route, here.

was only a douche in Seattle, Texas and New York (so far), while Barry was a bigger douche, and in our division.

:-P

Oh yeah. And that whole perjury thing….

If ARod doesn’t do it, there’s a good chance that nobody ever will. 73 will probably never be broken, for example.

you’re going to penalize a guy for eating Rocky Mountain oysters?

that Roger Connor had drank suspicious Nerve Tonic Elixer before hitting his record setting 131.

And the raising/lowering of the mound

And the use of (legitimate) technology in plate discipline exercises

And breaking one’s elbow while pitching

And

And

And….

I know you’re being facetious, I certainly was as well. We can find excuses to toss out records and numbers from any era. That’s why when comparing numbers from year to year, you normalize numbers based on the seasons and what everyone around them is also doing.

If you simply want to compare Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds, we can look at OPS+ for a general look at the two, relative to their environment.

I understand it’s hurting baseball’s reputation, and IIRC Tim Kurkjian touched on this in his book “Is This a Great Game or What?” <= excellent read, by the way.

Nobody is doubting for a second that pro football players are juiced out of their minds, but you don’t hear everyone blowing their stacks over such allegations. Why? Because football players are already Mammoth sized men, all very tall and large. They’re juicing? Damn, they already huge! That’s an even BIGGER dude!

Baseball players, however, are guys who could be living down the street from you. Someone you see in the mall. The guy in front of you in line at Chipotle. That kind of stuff. To think that they’re taking PEDs makes you think “Oh that’s terrible. I could never picture Larry doing something like that” because baseball players tend to be so much more human.

Baseball’s history is far dirtier than Steroids could ever make it, anyhow. Just look at Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale.

In the end, it’s baseball that defines the players, not the other way.

What do cockroaches and baseball have in common?

They will survive!!!

Allow me to change “black eye” to “bad publicity”.

I agree, let baseball run it’s course because people will continue to play it and watch it and enjoy it.