Saturday Rockpile: Late-game woes, Atkins heating up.

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Apr 18, 2009 9:18 AM MDT in Rockpile Comment 36 comments

The Rockies waste d a good-but-not-great start from Jorge De La Rosa last night, losing to the Dodgers 4-3 at Chavez Ravine in Los Angeles. The Rockies really struggled offensively after the first inning, and the bullpen absolutely blew up in the bottom of the seventh inning. Clint Hurdle made the right move in pulling De La Rosa with one out in the sixth, and he was starting to produce shaky results on the mound, and his composure was wearing thin. Still, Glendon Rusch was able to induce an inning-ending double play, but it was clear that the Dodgers were beginning to gain confidence at the plate after several good, patient at bats against JDLR, who gave up no runs on five hits, with four walks and five strikeouts, in 5 1/3 innings. However, Matt Belisle, Alan Embree, and Jason Grilli were unable to continue to limit the damage, as the Dodgers finally broke out with a four run inning. Belisle, in particular, had issues with control and certainly did not make it easy on Embree and Grilli, who both inherited base runners upon their entries into the game.

The good news from the game, aside from Huston Street's solo inning of good work (including a key punchout of Manny Ramirez) and Brad Hawpe's two-run bomb, was that Garrett Atkins continued to hit well (or at least, better than last year) with runners in scoring position. He is now 4-for-8 in that department. In addition, Garrett extended his hitting streak to 6 games - a streak where he has notched a key hit in just about every one of those games. With Todd Helton really struggling offensively, it's imperative that the Rockies at least get some production at the corners, and Atkins is doing that better than just about anyone else on the team right now.

Today: The Rockies look to get this one back, sending Aaron Cook to the mound to face Chad Billingsley and the Dodgers. The game starts at 1:40 PM on FOX. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with the Indians at Yankees (I'm in Utah...how "regional" is that!?!?), so I won't be able to see the game. But, as always, Purple Row will provide plenty of coverage of the game. Go Rockies!

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JDLR

I am really trying to understand what the expectations are around here for our starting pitchers. I thought JDLR was very, very good last night. He held a team w/ a very good offense in check. I mean did anyone even watch the game, yes he had traffic, but I saw maybe 2 hard hit balls all night long against him. He only started walking people after he was tiring. He had to throw more pitches because of some bloop hits, and his own mistake on the throw to 1st, but other than that I was downright impressed w/ him tonight. As the season goes on he will have more stamina too. This loss can be blamed on poor offense after the 1st inning and a poor choice to bring in Belisle, thats really it.

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Apr 18, 2009 9:56 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't blame JDLR

for the loss, but I maintain that he needs to pitch longer into games to be a viable starter for this team. We cannot have the bullpen pitch 3+ innings every time he starts and expect to do well.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get this

He’s our #4 or #5 starter, depending on who you talk to. Last night’s performance was the archetype of what you can expect from a good outing by one of your back end starters. He’s not going to go 7-8 innings. And the bullpen was fully rested.

If you told me that JLDR will throw 5.1 innings of shutout ball every time out, I’d be more than happy. But Cook, U-Ball, and Marquis need to be throwing more than 5-6 innings.

smokinRox is right, basically, nobody on the Dodgers roster got good wood on JLDR. I put the loss squarely on the feet of the offense, which is good for five minutes of fun in the 1st, seemingly, and then the tank’s empty. Belisle is only keeping a seat warm for Morales for a few more days.

And on Hurdle, for not staring the 7th with Gas Can in the first place.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Apr 18, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting 5.1 on average out of the 4th and 5th spot

is fine if you don’t want to have a very good pitching rotation. Maybe I’m being greedy here, I don’t know. It doesn’t seem good enough to me.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think 5 1/3 will be good enough every time

but I do think part of his tiring last night might be due to him still building stamina. Regardless, he very well last night while he was in. I will concede that no runs does not always point to good things if their were a lot of loud outs and too many walks, but I didn’t see that at all last night, which is why I think he was exceptional last night.

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Apr 18, 2009 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take 5 innings of scoreless pitching every night.

The Rockies can’t ask for better than zero from their starters. It’s not the starters fault that Belisle sucks

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch

by Hizilla on Apr 18, 2009 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

He pitched into the 6th

what do you need for it to be enough? 2 more outs?…5? He did his job. He gave up NO RUNS….I repeat…NO RUNS. How can you get better than NO RUNS? De La Rosa did his job, it was the hitters and the bull pen who didn’t do their jobs. You can’t expect a starter to go 7 or 8 innings every time out. There are 7 (actually currently 8) arms out in the pen….they get paid to pitch too…..and last night they failed.

Personally I think JDLR is a good pitcher. I’d go so far as pretty good. His Fastball and his slider are quality pitches. He doesn’t have pin point control with them, and his change kinds sucks…but for a #4 pitcher…he’s not bad at all.

Last night’s loss was NOT De La Rosa’s fault. It was the bull pen..and the offense. Atkins and Hawpe have to have help. With Helton, and Iannetta being automatic outs at the moment, and Barmes flailing at everything and hoping he makes contact and they drop (and it would be worse if they weren’t dropping but so far they are) there are too many holes in the line up right now.

Helton is a major concern…if he had not hit almost .600 in ST, I’d be even more concerned. But if I was the manager, I’d sit him. Stewart needs the PT.

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If this is a reaction to me

then perhaps you need to re-read what I said. I didn’t say it was JDLR’s fault last night. I agree that it wasn’t his fault last night. I’m taking more of a longview here, and suggesting that if he pitches 5.1 scoreless innings more often this year, we’re going to lose a lot of those games because relying on this bullpen for 3+ shutdown innings is not going to be a good plan.

I’m not saying take him out of the rotation. But let’s not act like he’s been lights out so far. He worked out of a LOT of trouble last night (I believe there was at least one RISP in every inning he pitched, often 2) and he deserves credit for that. But so far this season, he has made 2 starts, pitched a total of 10 innings, and we have lost both games. Likewise, folks are right to tout his 2nd half from last year, when he was very effective. Though its hard not to note that Colorado lost every game he started last year when he didn’t finish 6 innings.

My point is pretty simple. We’re going to continue to lose his starts if he doesn’t find a way to effectively work longer into games.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

not directed at you

entirely. But at unrealistic expectations of JDLR in general..of which yours is a part of.

You are asking for him to pitch so well and long, that the Rockies don’t have to call on their crappy bullpen. But I think that is directed at the wrong end….direct it at the bull pen. It’s not de la Rosa’s fault the bull pen sucks.

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he pitches 5.1 scoreless innings more often this year, we’re going to lose a lot of those games

I’m confused… A quality start is 6.0 IP and 3 runs or less. Getting a quality start from a 4 or 5 starter is always desirable. So why do you value those two outs he didn’t get more than the three runs he didn’t allow? Rusch promptly got those two outs anyway. I agree it would be great to see him go deeper in games, but you’re projecting the pen’s faults on Jorge. And the pen won’t have an ERA higher than 9.00 every game. Especially when our 7th inning guy is Buchholz instead of….Belisle?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 18, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

folks are missing my point (so maybe its a bad point…) but here we go again. I’m not blaming JDLR for the bullpen blowing the game. I am “blaming” JDLR for putting the bullpen in position to blow the game. I don’t care if he has 35 “quality” starts this year if we lose all the time. The only thing I care about is whether the Rockies win the game. And I think the evidence (and common sense, this isn’t a rocket-scientist point I’m making) suggests that we will win more often if we get more innings out of him.

Maybe you all think JDLR is incapable of that, and if so I am asking too much. I don’t think so. I think he’s a very talented kid that, with improvement, could be a really good starter.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah sorry but

your point is a bad one. I get what you are saying. You are saying that if JDLR could pitch a scoreless 9 inning game, then the bullpen would never blow the game. ok….so not quite what you are saying, but it is in affect.

Again….it’s not de la Rosa’s fault the bull pen sucks. You can’t ask/or expect him to cover up for a crappy bull pen. There are 25 guys on a team, and they all have to do their jobs. JDLR did his last night. 5.1 innings of shut out pitching with out any hard hit ball is pretty damn good. And when it’s shift change, you expect the 2nd shift to do their job…they didn’t ….that’s not Jorge’s fault. No he can’t work another 8 hours.

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

Your point seems to be that the bullpen sucks and is to blame for losing, while at the same time suggesting that giving the bullpen 3+ innings of the game is not a bad thing. I think those two positions don’t vibe.

0-2 so far for JDLR, 0-3 so far for the Rox when the SP doesn’t go 6. I suspect those numbers are indicative of how the season will play out.

I do expect JDLR to cover for a bad bullpen. That’s what good pitchers do. Good players cause their teams to win, they don’t “pass it off to the 2nd shift.” I see the potetial for JDLR to be a good pitcher, and as such I’m disappointed when he leaves the game to Belisle et al.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually 0-4 when SP < 6. my bad.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

do you want JDLR to bat for everyone too?

Damn it Helton isn’t hitting…it’s de la Rosa’s fault! My beer is warm…de la Rosa should have gotten it to me faster. Silly…same as your point

One guy can only do what one guy can do…the other 24 have to do their jobs too. The bull pen didn’t do their job. and if you blame de la Rosa for that ………………

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not directed at you at all

However, I will contend that if JLDR pitches 5.1 shutout innings every time out, the Rox will win the division. You’re confusing his role with that of a Cook, Lincecum, Peavy, et al. He’s a #4 starter who needs to gives us 5-6 innings and keep us in the game.

Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave

by Mondogarage on Apr 18, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

I know he’s not Peavy. I’m not asking for a 2.50 ERA and 18 wins out of the guy. Just 1+ more effective inning per start. Moreover, we presently don’t have a true ace. Absent that, we need our other guys to step up even more than a typical #4.

by Teekalong on Apr 18, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This ^ (directed at Mondogarage)

If our #4 & #5 guys, which IS what JDLR is, gives 5 to 6+ shutout innings every, or nearly every start, Colorado WILL win this division. Cook is going to get back to his normal self at some point, and as long as it’s above 35 degrees, Ubaldo can dominate, and Marquis will be well, Marquis. There is no reason why our 1/2/3 guys should not get 45 wins alone between the 3 of them.

Dex knows.....

by The Lodo Magic Man on Apr 18, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1....good post

I agree that I’m not sure what more we can expect from the #4 starter. I think Jorge will be solid in that role. And will the bullpen stink it up like last night every time? Doubtful.

But Belisle is definitely a concern and if he’s the odd man out when FrankieMo comes back, I’m not sure why he needs work now.

And I’m really getting concerned about Helton. His AB’s look weak. I’m starting to think his ST numbers were the result of feasting on AA pitchers.

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton

by pedalpusher on Apr 18, 2009 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I’m really getting concerned about Helton. His AB’s look weak. I’m starting to think his ST numbers were the result of feasting on AA pitchers.

Maybe, but 3 of his 4 home runs in ST were of legitimate big league starters, each a top three in their rotation: Yovani Gallardo, Chris Young and Kyle Davies

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 18, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

why do we have Jason Hammel

on this staff? If he’s not going to ever pitch, I see no reason we had to give up an arm for him. I’m assuming that he’s being “saved” for long relief duties, as Rusch is getting more short outings, and is more middle inning chores…..but Hammel has only pitched once and not that well either, in Rockies uni…and hasn’t been seen since.

The only reason I bring this up is right now the Rockies have 3 “long” men, in Rusch, Belisle, and Hammel…..but are in need of a quality middle arm to get the game to Street and Corpas, as Grilli can’t pitch EVERY game. Having the right “Mix” in the bullpen is a key ingredient to a successful team, and I don’t think the Rockies have that at the moment.

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 10:36 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree, but I think Bucky will change this mix and make it very good

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Apr 18, 2009 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last night's game

really did highlight missing Bucky is having out in the pen

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why did we give up ANYTHING

more valuable than a sack of potatoes for Hammel?

Dex knows.....

by The Lodo Magic Man on Apr 18, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if Hammel's getting his Rockies ST right now...

This is just speculation, but I wonder if part of the reason the Rockies traded for him is because they recognized something that they felt they could improve in his mechanics or delivery or what have you. They don’t want to throw him in games without the fix integrated because we know what happens with that Hammel.

by Rox Girl on Apr 18, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the highlight of the night was Street

I thought it was great to see Street come in with a great inning after a couple of rough outings. It really seems like he could be finding his groove. I think we all really needed to see that from him.

Also, good outings like this one for JDLR should do wonders for his confidence (and our confidence in him as well). Hopefully this was a sign of good things to come both pitchers.

by BaronBill on Apr 18, 2009 11:14 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

To get the awful taste of last night's game out of my mouth,

I decided to play video games. I cranked up my MLB 08 The Show dynasty on my PS2. I beat the Cardinals 4-1, but before I could save my dynasty, the game froze at the postgame screen. FML.

Aut Vincam Aut Periam

by PioneerSkies on Apr 18, 2009 11:38 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I have had that happen before

I think I was throwing a perfect game with Zach Day in the 7th

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 18, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

i chose whisky

it worked until this morning. We need a big win today

by holliday5 on Apr 18, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

did anyone else have a problem with hurdle letting ianetta bat with the bases loaded?

I was yelling pinch hit him. then i think it was frazor said chris is on an 0-17 streak and i thought why is he up then.

just wondering if anyone else had a problem with that or not?

by purplesocks on Apr 18, 2009 11:47 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I didn't have a problem with it,

CDI is going to break out at some point sooner rather than later

Dex knows.....

by The Lodo Magic Man on Apr 18, 2009 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

no...but only because

it was the catcher. If you PH for the catcher, that leaves only one to come in…and none on the bench…if the game would have gone extra innings…or it Yorvit would have gotten hurt, than who catches?

AND..we have day game today…so I’d assume, that Torrealba is going to play. Day games after night for a catcher, is pretty tough

"Suck it monkeys, the Rockies will win this year", Rox Girl 1-11-2009

by Redhawk on Apr 18, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

it Yorvit would have gotten hurt, than who catches?

I believe Barmes…he wouldn’t be the worst middle infielder catcher in franchise history either.

Yorvit also has good numbers (albeit in few ABs) vs Billingsley, so you could be right

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 18, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Swisher

can throw a scoreless inning, Barmes can probably handle catching for a bit. I’m on board!

by Resolution on Apr 18, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I'd like to make it clear that I was not blaming the loss on JDLR

or having unreasonably high expectations for him. I was just throwing it out there that because of the fact that the bullpen blew the game, people (not necessarily on this board, but maybe in the comments section of DP) would be calling for Hurdle’s head because he pulled De La Rosa. I know he pitched a heck of a game, but he was losing his composure, and I think I know Hurdle made the right move. It’s not his fault the bullpen sucks, but they’ll get a needed boost when Buchholz comes back from injury. Also, and I’ve said this before, I honestly believe that Matt Daley deserves a shot with the big club. Dude is SOLID.

"What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Apr 19, 2009 1:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs