Monday Rockpile: Seven years gone by, do the Rockies have that itch? Do the fans?
by Russ Oates on Apr 27, 2009 7:59 AM MDT
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You know that itch, right? The one that happens after seven years of a long-term relationship You know, when you feel that you might be missing out on something better. Wait, you say that you've had that itch for years now? Oh, well, never mind.
But indulge me for a moment. If you haven't caught on by now, the seven year itch (if you have it) concerns Clint Hurdle. Yesterday marked Hurdle's seventh year as the Rockies manager. As Tracy Ringolsby writes, the event went largely unnoticed yesterday. But seven years is a long time to be the manager for one team in this era of baseball. In the NL West, Bob Melvin's managed the D'Backs since 2005, Bruce Bochy's been with the Giants since 2007, Bud Black with the Padres since 2007, and Joe Torre started with the Dodgers in 2008. And Hurdle's the fourth-longest tenured manager in baseball behind Bobby Cox (Atlanta, 1990), Tony La Russa (Cards, 1996), and Mike Scioscia (Angels, 2000). And not nearly as successful as any of them.
So, while many fans have long itched for a new manager, will the organization develop that itch and scratch it with a new manager? A few more stretches like the last 10-12 games might just do it. Of course, it is possible that if a new manager does take over this season, the move may only provide temporary relief.
All I really want is to watch the Rockies play some baseball, no matter who is at the helm.
Patrick Saunders writes that it was just a matter of time until the Rockies' bats woke up and started to hit again, which happened yesterday. Saunders also informs us about a guy from across the pond who has done some traveling in the world of baseball.
Jason Hammel is ready to show what he can do as a starter:
"I'll do whatever they want me to do. Obviously, I came up as a starter. I've done it all. I'm happy to get that opportunity again. I've worked really hard to get back there. We'll see what happens."
Just don't make this start like the last one. We don't need to see our starter fail to finish three innings while allowing three runs and walking four batters. But we wouldn't mind if San Diego's Chris Young put up that line tonight.
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I'm really hoping that Hammel has a good game
not just to get the win, but because he’s a nice guy who deserves it.
Don’t even get me started with Hurdle. I’m sure if we lose the majority of games these next few weeks, he’ll be gone. I just hope that it won’t be too late to catch up by then.
Haha
I have to laugh at the connection between Clint Hurdle and Marilyn Monroe. I bet that’s a first. And who’s the guy from beyond the pond?
Tonight will be very interesting with Hammel on the hill
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 27, 2009 8:37 AM MDT reply actions
I'm
not in Denver this week – what are the odds of the game happening with the snow?
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
well, it's snowing pretty hard over here...
5 inches in the last 8 hours, but I’m pretty far south and to the west of Denver. 4 inches was expected in the Metro, but you know how Colorado weathermen are.
if the sun comes out the next few hours, like 9 news said, we should have a game.
I'm in Parker
about 3 inches of snow, but it’s melting and coming down at the same time. I’d assume the game gets played (but it’s 9 am as I write this)
didn't the news say that last week was our last snowstorm?
I’m really ready for it to be summer now.
yeah
I think this one surprised even the weather people. As I tell friends back in Oklahoma….it just rains snow here.
Kathy Saban
said we had one more snow after the last storm.
by rockieprogress on Apr 27, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
We'll have a game
I’m 8 blocks from Coors Field, it’s no longer snowing at all, and doesn’t look like it will again. The field will be wet, but highly playable.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
by Mondogarage on Apr 27, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
you live 8 blocks from Coors?
Lucky duck!
by Rockie4Ever on Apr 27, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Hizilla lives two blocks away
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 27, 2009 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
No, I work 8 blocks from Coors
Live 35 miles away :(
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Guess who has the 2nd best Pythagorean win percentage in the NL West?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 27, 2009 8:44 AM MDT reply actions
The Rockies
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 27, 2009 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Keep Hurdle
Slow start is on the shoulders of the pitching staff (and a few batters). Can’t blame the manager.
they need a more consistent line up, though
how do you expect guys like Spilly or Ian, who may not be used to playing 162 straight days, to adjust if they’re not in the lineup every day? Hurdle’s been getting better at this the past few days, but he’s going to have to get his act together quick if he wants to keep his job.
not buying the "too many lineup adjustments" argument
Come on, you’re a professional hitter, when your name is on the lineup card, go hit. If not, go to work in the cages. Not that complicated.
Soooooo
much about hitting is about consistency, if you’re not hitting against in-game pitching every day it’s pretty tough to find. Ask the 2007 Rockies who had 10 days off before the World Series how tough it was to come back.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
yes, exactly
and it’s not like they had ten days off sitting on their butts watching the ALCS and Family Guy, either. I’m sure they were working harder than ever.
by Rockie4Ever on Apr 27, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Then how do you explain...
Of the players who have been “in and out” of the lineup most (Spilly, Fowler, Smith, Stewart, Barmes, Baker), really only Baker has been underperforming. The other 5 are puting up numbers that fairly reasonably reflect their talents.
Meanwhile, of the “regulars” (Hawpe, Atkins, Tulo, Iannetta), only Hawpe’s performance is where it should be. The others have been, to be honest, quite bad. (despite plenty of time to find their “rhythm”.)
I agree with you, but I think the problem with the inconsistent lineups isn't what it does to the batters
It’s what it does to the team’s ability to score. Hurdle’s moves are often putting inferior hitters into positions where they’re getting equal opportunity to the better bats, and while that’s a fine social ideal for the clubhouse, it’s not that conducive to winning. I think he needs to be more embracing of free market principles in the clubhouse.
so what are we talking about, then?
Significantly reducing playing time for Smith, Barmes, and Baker, right? With more ABs for Spilly, Stewart, and Fowler?
I guess I’m ok with that as a general trend. But still, I say all six of those guys are still “matchups” guys; none of them have really earned an unquestioned everyday role.
I think what I'm saying is to reduce the use of Baker
To cut out Barmes on the road except for defensive purposes (I’m slightly okay with him starting against a weak opposing pitcher going up against Cook, for instance) and to amp up the use of Stewart in particular. Spilly, Smith and Fowler are being utilized fairly well, maybe a little more Smith, actually. We haven’t seen a game yet where Smith, Fowler and Stewart all started at once, and I think against RHP’s the best possible lineup would have all three.
Where would you start Bradley against RHP’s then?
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
I would go with a lineup like this against tough RHP's:
C: Iannetta
1B: Helton
2B: Stewart
3B: Atkins
SS: Tulo
LF: Smith
CF: Fowler
RF: Hawpe
Against LHP’s and a few of the easier righthanders, stick in Spilly. It absolutely baffles me that for all of his tinkering, Hurdle’s never tried that. It seems so sensible to me.
First off, I think it's safe to say Fowler is a regular now.
and to respond to the other “regulars”: We know that A.) Tulo is not an early bird. B.) Hawpe is a very streak-ish hitter. C.) Garrett’s doing what Garrett does best, which is surprise us with offense when we need it. and D.) Chris has been doing better in recent at bats.
and I’m not so sure that the bench is living up to their talents. Spilly’s been improving, yes, but still not at full power. For Barmes, he needs to raise his OBP up more, which we know he can do (See 2008 without injuries.) Smith is the one that really needs consistency in the lineup to reach full potential, which he’s not going to get with Fowler there.
And I’m not just talking about who plays, it’s where they play, too. He’s been changing around where batters hit (see Spilly, Tulo) which gets them different pitches. Then they have to go and readjust to hitting clean up, Two hole, etc, only to be moved again the next day.
I agree that not all of this is lineup inconsistency, but I think we’d have more run production if we just left it alone for a while.
by Rockie4Ever on Apr 27, 2009 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Spills is more or less the starting LF
I’d call Smith more bench at this point.
And that’s based on Hurdle’s usage of them, nothing more.
I’m frustrated at Helton’s poor start. Nothing’s been going right, sans defense. I want to see Smith-Dex-Spills with Murton the 4th, and then Atkins(not really though)-Tulo-Stew-Hawpe
Barmes’ good OBP in 2008 was fueled by outlandish BABIP and luck. He doesn’t walk enough to put up a solid OBP along with a realistic MLB batting average.
You’re right about the inconsistency in lineup slots. If we’re gonna juggle a guy between 6 and 7, oh boo hoo. But if it’s 2nd or 7th, there’s kind of an issue there. One’s a table setting slot, one’s a slugger spot.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Keep Hurdle?
Who kept the Pitching Coach?
Who keep Barmes on the team?
Who plays Baker when Stewart should get the start?
by rockieprogress on Apr 27, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
What's wrong with Barmes?
I’m confused. Barmes is a problem now? I don’t get it. Barmes is playing better baseball than Tulo. Better baseball than Q.
by Rox R Champs on Apr 27, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
continued
Aside from OBP, barmes is matching Stewart offensively. He just needs a little more patience to take some more walks, especially if he’s hitting 8
by Rox R Champs on Apr 27, 2009 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh so Barmes wastes more outs than Stewart
I don’t call that matching offensive production at all.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Higher Slugging %, higher average,
More hits, more doubles, more runs, fewer K’s, matched HR totals, and one fewer RBI. So yeah, Stewart has walked more often, but overall…
by Rox R Champs on Apr 27, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
but barmes has gotten way more plalying time than Stewart
so obviously he’s going to have more hits and runs. Just the fact that Ian has more RBIs with half the playing time and the same amount of homeruns should tell you something.
by Rockie4Ever on Apr 27, 2009 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions
And what's most amazing is that he's racked that up despite being absolutely vomit inducing wretched
away from Coors Field. Barmes is an absolute beast at home. Please don’t start him on the road.
Or against RHP
>1.000 OPS against LHP, ~.700 OPS against RHP
Just don’t start Barmes how’s that
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep, see my preferred lineup above.
The Rockies are 3-8 against starting RHP’s this season, 3-3 against left handers. I don’t think it’s a coincidence when we’re never using our best possible alignment against them.
But Overall.... what?
I have more comments than you on Purple Row.
Therefore I’m a better poster than you
/dodges thrown chair
This probably isn’t true, but I’m on PR a lot, between stories, games, and my articles, and therefore I’m gonna have more excuses to post all over the website
The entire point of this illustration is just
“I post more therefore more posts” = “I play more therefore more counting stats”
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions
That
was awfully snarky til I read that last sentence…well played.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
I knew it would come off like that
but the illustration needed to be made.
I probably could’ve thought of a better one though….
As long as someone gathered that it wasn’t meant to be dickish
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I hear you
I’m all for Stewart to be in the lineup as much as possible. But really, Barmes only has 9 more ABs than Stewart, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say a lot more playing time. With Barmes having 0 BB and Stewart having 4, that’s only 13 more plate appearances. Not a huge discrepancy. I just disagree that keeping Barmes on the club is grounds for firing Hurdle
by Rox R Champs on Apr 27, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually, he has 11 more ABs
You might be looking at data that isn’t updated from yesterday yet. And with the walks and Stew’s HBP, he’s trailing Barmes by 6 in PA
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 27, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm beating my own dead horse here
But Barmes should be the utility guy. I like him, he’s an asset to this club.
But outside of losing/rebuilding teams, do you see a single club where Clint Barmes is the starting anything?
We’re kind of saying the same thing but drawing different conclusions from it.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
Sounds like we are saying the same thing. I was just reacting mostly to keeping Barmes as a detriment to Hurdle’s managerial skills. I disagree with that, but agree that he should be a super U off our bench. That said, I betcha he’s in the line-up tonight
by Rox R Champs on Apr 27, 2009 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
You're going to criticize Barmes and Baker
the day after they combine for five RBI? Really?
‘Keeping Barmes on the team’ isn’t exactly a sin – he’s a valuable defensive player and he’s off to a fine start at the plate even if he’ll never be Chase Utley or anything. It’s ‘starting Barmes 5 times a week’ that would trouble me.
And Baker has hit lefties very well in his career, so I’m actually OK with getting him in the lineup against a tough southpaw at the expense of Stewart, who didn’t swing very well the night before.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Apr 27, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Holding back scrutiny of poor performers after one good day
Is as bad as overreacting to generally solid contributors after one bad one. Baker’s triple yesterday was great, but it doesn’t make up for the fact that his entire career has seen him hit like a shortstop despite being a corner infielder who plays more than half his games in high offense environments. Murton would have still been the better option for a lefty killer to take Hawpe’s place yesterday.
I'm making a fanpost in just a second here
because my 2 paragraph commentary turned into a full on rant/article
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Just because
Barmes and Baker had 5 RBI’s one day doesn’t forgive them for, in Bakers case, being totally replaceable, and in Barmes’s case, swinging at balls that NO ONE could hit. Not even Vlad Guerrero could hit some of the balls that Barmes has swung at.
Barmes isn’t young either. He’s 30.
There really isn’t going to be any improvement in plate discipline, since he’s still making the same mistakes he was making as a rookie.
As for his defense, Q is just as good on defense, so why keep two guys that have the same use? Yes, Barmes can hit better than Q, I’ll give you that one, but neither one of them has the potential that Tulo has, so, if Tulo is healthy he should be the one playing. Slumps and all, Tulo will get better as he plays more IMO. Barmes is topped out, and Q is cheaper. Keep Q for the back up IF spot, and play Stewart every day at 2B if Todd is playing.
Baker is AAAA. Nothing more.
Keeping those kind of players on the team is a luxury for a successful team. The Rockies are not going to be able to play over .500 baseball, if they keep their current logic of having replaceable players on the team, because that lets Hurdle have the excuse of actually wanting to play them to keep them useful.
by rockieprogress on Apr 27, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah pretty much this
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Link also fixed in story.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
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