Marginal Players taking the field - continued from Monday's Rockpile
Barmes is not a starting MLB player. You can't just take 2 games and say "wow this guy is for real" or else Chris Shelton would be in the HoF by now. Streaky hitters like Barmes who have good gloves fool managers and fans alike in terms of their value. Good defense is very important, but Stewart's defense at 2B isn't so far below Barmes' that it's worth wasting the bat. The 2009 numbers (defensively) don't support this notion at all, but Stewart hasn't had any time to acclimate to a position because Hurdle insists on using him in all the wrong spots in favor of better options (that is, LF and RF, defensively anyhow) and keeping Barmes in the lineup. If given more time to acclimate, Stewart has shown that he might be able to be about a 1-win player (defensively) at 2B, while Barmes is only worth about .5 wins above that. (this is based on 2008 numbers) I don't think Barmes is useless, though, we should be keeping him as the spell-the-entire-infield guy. Baker is redundant. He should be a PH and nothing more at this point. Atkins and Stewart are the 3B, Helton and Hawpe are the 1B (or should be, dammit), Fowler and Spills are the CF, Hawpe and Spills are the RF, Spills and Smith are the LF.
I like Baker's power, it's very exciting. It's also streaky and unreliable. He hasn't really proved himself as a major leaguer any more than Barmes has, but Barmes has the glove to go with his streaky bat, so he gets the edge over Baker.
The problem is that the guys who need more playing time (Smith, Murton) aren't getting it in favor of Baker and Barmes (obviously not a direct translation, but moving Hawpe to 1B when Helton needs a break opens up the OF better). We're rewarding the marginal talent for getting lucky hits (no, Barmes' homers weren't lucky. They were awesome. We all know Barmes really isn't a HR hitter though) such as Baker's hit which would've been a loud lineout had Matt Kemp not been staring at that bug in the grass that was trying to carry a sunflower seed for half of the ball's flight. I like Clint Barmes. I think he's a very talented guy. But he isn't one of the 8 most talented guys we have. Well, actually he might be, but for some reason we're stuck with Atkins still. But once again, he's not really a starting guy. He had 2 full seasons to solidify himself, and he basically rides one hot month and then falls apart, but everyone says "Hey, he did really well in May last year! He could do THAT again!" well if you look at what he did coming off of the DL, he started off slow (which is TOTALLY excusable, given the fact he was injured) but then just kept on being slow.
He IS ripping the cover off the ball right now. I don't really mind him playing while he's hot. The problem is that Hurdle isn't saying "Alright, I have Helton, Barmes, Stewart, Tulowitzki, Atkins, Baker, Quintanilla. Who are my best 4 guys?" he's saying "Well, Atkins has always been the 3B, so he's starting. Helton's always batted 3rd, so he's gonna hit there. Barmes has the hot bat, so he's starting there. Tulo's the best all around SS we have right now, so he's starting there" rather than saying "Atkins, you're blowing ass. Have a seat" and giving Stewart his ABs.
I tout Stewart pretty highly, but he's young and has a big shot and being a big player. But we're benching his bat for some stupid reason so Atkins can waste outs. If Stewart really was batting like 1-for-43, I'm not stupid, you obviously can't have that happening. He hasn't looked good the past couple games, either, which hurts my case. But it seems that Smith and Stewart are being punished for bad games by sitting, Barmes is being rewarded for good games by starting, but when Stew/Smith have a good game, or Barmes has a bad game, they get the "Att'l do Pig" pat on the head and then Hurdle just does whatever he pulls out of his magic hat.
Honestly, and again, small sample size, Ian Stewart is superior as a 3B in every way to Atkins.
This is really unorganized, I know, but it's kind of a stream of consciousness thing.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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What? No analysis on Quintanilla?
I agree, though, with everything that you said.
And it’s not even like there’s no one to bring up if we were to let Baker/Q go. Matt Murton, anyone?
I figured Q was a foregone conclusion
He provides Zero to this team right now, and not for lack of trying, etc.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Re:
First, I’m not about to start disputing your assertion that Barmes is not an everyday caliber player. I’m with you on this. But after two years of ‘GET THIS LOSER OFF THE TEAM HE SUX’ I’ve come around on Barmes’ value as a reserve, particularly in light of his excellent +/- numbers at both second base and shortstop. Being able to plug in a glove like that never hurts as long as you set him 8th in the lineup because you know you aren’t getting any ‘1-2, 2 BB’ type of days from him. He runs well, he fields very well, and there’s acceptable pop for a reserve middle infielder, too.
The thing I like about having Baker on the roster – aside from his career .902 OPS and 13 homers against southpaws – is his positional flexibility. He’s a very unorthodox ‘utilityman’ because he’s a bigger guy and can’t play the speed positions (CF, SS) so we tend not to think of him as a utility player, but that’s exactly what he is. And against lefthanders, he should be a lineup option ahead of Smith and perhaps even ahead of Hawpe. I know Stewart crushed lefties last year, but I wonder about the sample size there and if he proves to be unreliable against lefties over a long period Baker’s a better option than him, too. I like the idea of being able to bring him off the bench to hit for a lefty when a guy like Ohman or Schoenweiss or Affeldt comes in the late innings.
Now, Murton’s a lefty killer too, but if he should be replacing anybody off the current bench it ought to be Quintanilla, not Baker.
I think this lineup’s going to find some equilibrium once the team starts winning, or at the very least putting some good offensive games together (as it did over the weekend). Fowler looks like he’s pretty well set in CF, leaving a Spilly-Fowler-Hawpe OF that should be very good. I too worry about Stewart’s ABs in the short term, but if the guy keeps hitting and playing good defense when he does get chances – well, Clint Hurdle’s a lot of things, but if he were to continue to play Barmes 5 times a week if that were the case, that’s a fireable offense. Play Barmes with Cook on the mound, play him at third or second in the ninth inning, but do not get into the habit of penciling him in every day in the long term. (Bet he plays tonight, though – you gotta admit he’s earned it at least for now.)
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Not sure Baker really "kills" lefties
He certainly hit them well last year: .926 OPS in 100 ABs (half of his career ABs vs. lefties). But, if you’re concerned with Stewart’s small sample sizes, 100 ABs is no guarantee of success. For instance, in 2007 (Baker’s next largest sample vs. lefties), Baker managed a .760 OPS vs. lefties in 64 ABs. Nothing terrible, but nothing Barmes couldn’t accomplish as well.
There’s no way that Baker should get playing time ahead of Stewart, ever. Stewart can develop into a full-time player; Baker can never be a full time player: he has a career .696 OPS against righties and an average at best glove at whatever position he plays. The team can’t afford to lose more development time for Stewart.
You’re correct that Barmes is not the solution at second base. If he can’t raise is .286 OBP, they might as well not even hit the position. All the more reason that Stewart should play there full time. Lots of people have moved between second and third (notably, Edgardo Alfonzo was pretty good at both).
And I think we're on the same page here
I don’t OMG HATE Clint Barmes, I don’t want to see him starting unless it’s in a purely reserve role. I think you covered most of everything in that above. I don’t see anything more than part-time work for Baker, and by that I mean PH at best.
Yeah, Murton oughta replace Q. I would’ve said that more explicitly, I just figured we were all already at that conclusion.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I want to turn this rage away from Barmes/Baker at the moment
Because if Barmes is hitting the cover off of the ball (which he is right now), there’s not really an issue with starting him, until he starts noticeably cooling down.
The other guy taking Ian Stewart’s starts is Mr. .224/.274/.403/.677 himself, Garrett Atkins.
He has a solid IsoP right now (SLG-AVG) which tells us that when he gets a hit, it’s typically a hard hit, but isn’t that what Stewart is KNOWN for?
Batting Averages come and go, and Stewart has a moderately better eye than Atkins. If they were hitting at their best, Atkins is the guy guy guy, but because he’s blowing chunks right now, bench his tail and gimme some Beefy Stew at 3B. Barmes can stay at 2B until he cools off.
We need to freaking win, and Atkins is NOT helping that cause.
This is old, but a lot of the points remain valid: http://www.purplerow.com/2008/12/14/692327/reasons-we-should-trade-at
FREE MATT MURTON
Oh good lord Atkins
his Road line is .186/.234/.256/.490
make it a little harder to trade you Atkins, jeez.
I’m totally cool with his .292/.346/.667/1.013 line at home though.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I read your old post
So is Atkins starting so often just to try to get him on track to drive up his value? He’s the only player to start every game this year. If the plan is in fact to trade him, it looks like they’re just keeping him in, hoping he’ll get going. Because as soon as he’s benched his value plummets. It almost feels like the front office’s hands are tied.
What I do know is that I get excited to see Stewart starting, and I don’t think it should be that way. I rather think it should be the norm.
Listen, this signature line is a big part of who I am.
by frightened inmate #2 on Apr 27, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions
But if you trade Atkins
who starts at 2nd?…..Barmes…who again is a very good back up utility guy…just not a starting 2nd basemen for 1/2 the teams games (the away ones)
Unless of course EY2 is brought up
Atkins career numbers are great. He also has a very good swing/mechanics. Atkins/Stewart is better than Stewart/Barmes-EY2. I don’t want to trade Atkins but he is hurting the team at the moment.
Atkins is hurting the team, I completely agree
Atkins has a good career thus far, with a rough year last year. I think he’s on the decline, and I think that article displayed it well, but I could also be TOTALLY wrong – and I hope I am.
It’s kind of a catch-22, like frightenedinmate just pointed out. We start Atkins, he sucks right now, we suck with him in the lineup.
We bench him, we kill his trade value and any hope of him re-finding his bat, and have a 6.75M bat sitting, and we might suck as badly.
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 27, 2009 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions
All I know is
that it really hurt watching him stand about 5 feet from first base while Kershaw casually lobbed the ball over to pick him off, or seeing him totally mis-judge the grounder for his error in the 7th. His head wasn’t anywhere near 20th and Blake on Sunday.
"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
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No way he's getting benched though
That’s just ridiculous, he’s durable and a mainstay and blahblahblah
FREE MATT MURTON
by Andrew Martin on Apr 28, 2009 6:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, there isn't an easy solution for the middle infield
I’d love to see Murton, but with Brad doing well and Spilly seemingly over his K phase, you can’t force him in. But the middle infield ain’t doing well, and we don’t have someone we can just put in there.
Listen, this signature line is a big part of who I am.
by frightened inmate #2 on Apr 27, 2009 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions

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