Pirates 11, Rockies 4: Worst. Inning. Ever.
by Jeff Aberle on May 17, 2009 3:07 PM MDT
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PrintWell that sucked.
The Rockies were cruising toward their third series win of the season over the Pirates heading into the seventh, up 4-1. Starter Ubaldo Jimenez had tossed six innings, giving up one run on five hits and striking out seven with a WPA of .202, while the Rockies had gotten four runs off Zach Duke in the fourth inning.
And then came the single worst half-inning of the year by the Rockies: three relief pitchers (Daley, Embree, Corpas) combined to give up ten runs on nine hits, two errors (both by Spilborghs), and two walks (total WPA of -.866!) to not only lose the game but also to crush the collective spirits of the few optimists remaining among us Rowbots.
As it was, Duke (5-3) got the win and Alan Embree (1-2) took the loss as the Pirates improved to 16-21 and the Rockies fell to 14-22. In addition, the Rockies' run differential this season is now zero (183 RS and RA).
Looking at the FanGraph of the game, the seventh inning was definitely horrible:
Wrap Rating: Well, I could go a lot of ways with this one, but I'll just leave it up to your imagination, Rowbots.
Rowbot Roll Call: jrockies, fantasyfencing, The Lodo Magic Man, Chrysicat, Sandlotkid8, Shifty1, Rox Girl, arpagamos, Poseidon's Fist, biondino, Narcoleptico, Mondogarage, WolfMarauder, GoRoxGo, ejskater, mkorpal, FooMan, RockiesMagicNumber, Silverblood, Redhawk, El Paso Jeff, free7694, InToddwetrust, indianrox, Russ, coolopotamous, ch3cooh1, TuLoRocks2008, MADness, Charlie77, NYCskibum, holly96, Rockie4Ever, Squeaky, and AtkinsandTulofan joined me (36 users) for a conversation of around 850 comments, with jrockies getting well over 100 comments.
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Demoralizing
I have remained optimistic about our season until this afternoon. We NEED to make changes. Whether its keeping a consistent line-up, shaking up the bullpen, or letting the skipper sink with the ship, something has to be done. It’s going to be a long season.,.
Hurdle likes his folksy sayings...
so here’s one he might enjoy.
The Rockies currently couldn’t find their own a** with both hands and a map…
/trying to keep it clean
we are the rowbots...
Geez people!
It’s a beautiful day outside here in the Midwest, but I’m a Rockies fan and wanted to watch the game. Along about the 6th inning I couldn’t take it any longer and had to go out and enjoy the Sun. Besides, the game was well in hand….. So apparently as soon as I turn my back for three innings you all allow THIS to happen??? Then again, I’m glad I didn’t watch.
Now, as I’m one of the “optimists”, probably the hopeless variety, let me slap my spin on this game. Two years from now we will look back on this day as the turning point to Rockies greatness. It was the day when upper management knew absolutely what the plan will be for the June draft, July trade deadline, and 2011. Hawpe, Marquis, and Street will all be dealt while Atkins is just left unsigned at the end of the year. All great guys, and will be missed, but most (ahem) of them are more valuable to another team than us right now. All that anticipated $ savings is of course used to draft and sign the best available picks in June regardless of slot, plus there’s enough left over to budget a 2nd tier free agent (O-Dog type) or two prior to the 2011 World Series run. 2010 will be a bit rough yet, but we’ll all be happy winning 70 games knowing that the youngsters like Cargo need this time to get themselves comfortable as full-time major leaguers. Yeah, that’s what I’m choosing to believe. It’s gonna be a great 2011! For now, I’m gonna go mow the grass.
I'm also one of the optimists,
and the negativity of recent game threads has been grating to me. But now, even I’m thinking that I might just start following my back-up team (the Brewers, who are doing well) until either 1) some major changes are made (and most of us agree on what these are), or 2) next season.
WTF HAPPEN??!?
i went downstairs to watch the Red Wings game and i followed the game downstairs and we allow TEN EFFIN RUNS in an inning to the EFFIN pirates….i am truly ashamed to be a rockies fan
8 down....8 to go for a repeat Go Wings!!!
that's a bit strong
every team in baseball has blown up like that
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Even the Yankees and Wang
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 11:54 PM MDT up reply actions
What? Wang is like a 16 game winner
proven. Never blows up.
The Yankees have never blown up. Esp not Kyle Farnsworth.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 18, 2009 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions
thats not the point
of my post….i am ashamed to be a rockies fan plus we allowed 10 runs in an inning to the pirates not like the dodgers or mets….and the yankees are a winning team…i hate them with a passion but they win and we do not minus a miracle run 2 years ago…i wish our team could find an identity and turn it around.
9 down....7 to go for a repeat Go Wings!!!
by TuLoRocks2008 on May 18, 2009 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I respectfully ask
that my name be taken off the role call.
I do not want to be connected to that game in any way.
Alas, we all wish such a thing...
but as everyone knows, the Rowbot Roll Call is written in stone.
To quote Pilate:
“What I have written, I have written.”
Eschew Obfuscation!
I only came in and screamed
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
What's left to say?
I intentionally didn’t watch the game today. Just couldn’t face it on such a beautiful Colorado day. I felt confident that the Rox would find a way to lose yet another series, and sadly, they didn’t prove me wrong.
It’s all been hashed out many times now, so I’m only going to say this: Until this team’s ownership shows me that these types of results are not acceptable, I’m taking the summer off from baseball. I will not enable them by buying tickets or merchandise. I love me some Rockies, but I’ve had enough for right now.
The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul
+1
I’m done. I’ve given this team enough time and $$$, I’m not putting up with this crap anymore. Good thing I still have my other favorite team, the Cardinals. And they actually believe in such foreign concepts as “accountability” and “winning.”
by Narcoleptico on May 17, 2009 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions
cool enjoy the bandwagon
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Just got home from Church..
Looks like I missed a historic game. It revealed some elemental truths about this team:
1. The bullpen is horrible (Grilli, Street have been ok)
2. Hurdle isn’t playing his best lineup, Atkins shouldn’t be starting and Smith/Murton should be getting more ABs. Dex needs to be sent down.
3. Starting pitching is coming around.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
While watching the post-game comments on FSRM, did I just miss it or
did they not interview Hurdle? If they didn’t interview him (and I’m pretty sure they didn’t), what can be read into that?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
He was going
to say the same thing he says after each loss:
“We didn’t play well, and the team needs to step it up. The one bad inning was horrible but it is part of the game. Ubaldo pitched well, too bad he didn’t get the bunt down.”
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
JFK
Ubaldo Bunt
Am I correct in recalling that Ubaldo was allowed to hit for himself in the 7th, AND THEN LIFTED FROM THE GAME? Was there a bench shortage? I was at the game, and the bench looked pretty full to me. Seth Smith was available to pinch hit, Dexter looked healthy, and I’m sure Todd was in there somewhere. What the hell, Hurdle?
In this case, it's not as much a question of the bench but of the bunt
First question: Do you agree we should have bunted there? If no, blame Hurdle for it all. If yes, go to next question.
Second question: Who is the better bunter?
Quite honestly, it’s probably Dexter, but managers (even other than Clint) rarely burn a bench player for a bunt. Ubaldo should have gotten that bunt down. The failure was mostly his
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I would think if you just had to have a bunt there and didn't want to use a position player
Marquis or Cook would have been a better choice than Baldo.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
by pedalpusher on May 17, 2009 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions
That's a very fair point that I had not thought of actually
Ubaldo has been significantly better with the bat this year, and his bunting in Tucson was not appreciably worse. Perhaps Clint just thought he could do it.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 11:28 PM MDT up reply actions
If Ubaldo has been bunting well
Then what the hell sign would it give to him that his manager pinch-bunts for him WITH ANOTHER PITCHER?? Unless, of course, that pitcher would be replacing him in the next inning AND was known as a bunt machine, maybe.
I guess I don't think 'Baldo is a particularly good bunter.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I'm unsure
Haven’t looked at the stats, but he has improved with his bat control in the past two years. At least with my eye test
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 18, 2009 8:47 PM MDT up reply actions
what's wrong with him?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Is that for real or another of those phantom injuries?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Phantom injuries?
You can’t really fake an injury, as a player has to be examined by an MLB sanctioned doctor before they can be placed on the DL, in order to prevent abuse of that system. If you mean did the injury happen in game, yes. There is video of it on the MLB site. I’ll go get the link.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Some fans
may see this move as a relief, because apparently Daley sucks
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess he struggled
in the only game that guy watched
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Or he's just mad, and can't see past one game/inning/batter?
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Or he's just a refugee from Denver Post comments
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Daley, blown save
He was probably following the May 5th game where Daley blew the save.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
I cannot relate to this mindset
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Or maybe he got him confused with Kip Wells? They have the same haircut.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I prefer to compare him to Curtis Leskanic ;-)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
But would anybody be wanting to get rid of Leskanic?
(I honestly don’t know – I was barely aware of the Rockies existence in his era).
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions
In terms of the hair and smallish build ---> Leskanic
I have good memories of Curtis, but I was too young to grasp community reactions.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
From what I remember
Leskanic was what Grilli is.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
JFK
I hated Leskanic...
probably irrationally, but he is one of my all-time least favorite Rockies. He always seemed to suck when I was watching.
Eschew Obfuscation!
But let's face it...
.. Rockies fans are blind with rage right now. There were people saying pretty stupid things in the game thread, as there usually are when the Rockies are losing.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
This is true
I found it too exhausting formulating a rebuttal to everything so I’m taking a break and letting the steam just go
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Trying to post in there when we're losing is exhausting, I agree.
I don’t think I’ll do it anymore.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Airplane is an excellent film.
The other two, not as much. :p
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions
They're all fun
in a “we can quote them in game threads when the Rockies are getting killed and everybody will know what we’re talking about” kind of way.
We found out recently that many people don't know Airplane
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions
You're not kidding me...
I got some weird comments when I did the ‘good luck, we’re all counting on you’ comment
Eschew Obfuscation!
i got it :(
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm a film student...
… so if you get me talking about movies, you’ll get me talking about them. I could write you a 12 page paper on Airplane and why I argue it is better than the others in an hour, but I really don’t have time. :p
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions
How about Once, the new Batman, Gigli, and Duel?
jk…though you can email if you want ;-)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions
That would require you to tell me a specific aspect you want compared....
…. because those aren’t textually similar at all. :p
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Not for similarities, just general opinions
And you’re right…those are about as different as possible. I’ll throw in Twilight for good measure ;-)
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Nope.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Insanity.
There’s my paper on that film.
Though I actually did write about 20 pages on it after I saw it. It’s not an easy thing to describe, nor is it easy to explain my opinion about it.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions
It also helps
to do more cheerful things. Like plant some flowers that will beautify your yard for the next 4 months. Or plant some vegetables that will supply you with delicious food for your table.
I’ve always found gardening to be a great way to avoid dangerous blood pressure readings.
The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul
I went for a leisurely drive around in the mountains
and came across four full-grown big horn sheep. Go Rams!
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I try and be positive
It does get more difficult as more people become negative.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
JFK
It's not necessarily about remaining positive...
… as I’m the farthest thing from positive about the Rockies right now. But to a degree; I don’t let it cloud my judgment about what I think this team should be doing to address the problems.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeppers.
I’m looking at the big picture with these struggles. My frustration is that I don’t think the FO is looking at this strategically (longer-term), instead making tactical (short-term) moves.
Eschew Obfuscation!
+1
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Game threads
I wasn’t around for the carnage today since I left for church during the third inning. But I caught up on the game and read through the thread when I got home.
I generally can tolerate negativity from people who are also around for the good games (which is the great majority of people here). What really bugs me are posters who only show up to make negative comments during losses, and are nowhere to be seen during good games. That really irritates me. It’s like they have an agenda and only show up when current events fit that agenda. Argh.
I know many "fans" like that
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I know that in my future game threads...
I’m going to be a lot less tolerant of that negativity—though to be honest Holly, the seventh inning of today’s game deserved every bit of it.
Eschew Obfuscation!
If someone does come on
with a low post count and does nothing but make destructive negative posts as such, we do have the green light to delete their comments without warning or even ban them
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh I know...
I was just more understanding in this thread given the circumstances of the inning.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Actually,
you have the green light to delete any comment for any reason or no reason at all.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
As long
as it doesn’t violate the user guidelines there’s no reason it should be deleted.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I do know that
I just personally choose to steer clear of that line, especially while we are all royally ticked off.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Agree.
Are there examples of deletable negative comments? As someone with a low post count, now I wonder if I’m supposed to be toeing a line.
Absolutely not
There has been, in the past, some people who would sign up during a bad game, join the game thread and leave DP-post worthy comments. You have demonstrated on numerous occasions to present well thought out comments, and you are clearly here for reasons other than dropping a one-liner akin to Woody’s article.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions
like that bronco dude
in Mondo’s Managerial Change thread
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions
There have been others
that I delete and ban before many people even see them
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions
ban or report?
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 18, 2009 8:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Either
I have the power to ban, but I don’t think you do
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 18, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions
badass
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, that's a bit overboard, don't you think?
To delete for ANY reason or for NO reason at all seems a bit capricious to me. If this site is for the exchange of ideas and thoughts, that would seem to hamper the flow of comments.
Now don’t get me wrong. I’m OK with deleting trolls or unnecessary flames. But your comment above indicates that even if you don’t agree with a comment, feel free to delete it.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
That would be abusing it
And we definitely don’t do that. It’s reserved for trolls.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 18, 2009 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
You're talking
as if the First Amendment applies here.
Look, I only delete comments if they are racist, sexist, homophobic, or cross a decency line. If you say Player X is great, and I don’t agree I’m not going to delete the comment.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I agree with you 100% that those are all good reasons to delete.
And I don’t think any of the Mods would abuse their deletion powers. The “any reason or no reason at all” comment seemed a little harsh. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
by pedalpusher on May 18, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
This.
I sometimes feel as if I’ve been a Hurdle apologist for years. And if not quite a Positive Polly, certainly not a Negative Nelly. And today wasn’t really Clint’s fault (not PHing for U-Ball didn’t cause the bullpen to meltdown).
But there are still good pieces to this team, even though systemic changes are needed now.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Yeah, I didn't even bother replying to people saying we should DFA Corpas.
You can’t argue with those people.
Eschew Obfuscation!
BECUZ THEY R RIGHT
seriously though I feel my brain bleeding sometimes
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep, blind with rage about sums it up.
People are just so frustrated and improvement doesn’t appear on the horizon.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
It could, if people applied their emotions towards working together legitimate solutions to our problems...
… instead oif suggesting throwing all our players under the bus. :\
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I know, if it were any freakier..
…the ump would have been kicking over a rack of deer meat past the plate.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I was under the impression
that getting approval for a player to go on the DL was about as difficult as getting a doctor’s note for a sick day from school.
as was I.
however, I missed that play when he stepped on the bat.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Don’t you think that if it were that easy, teams would be constantly trying to put their struggling players on the DL for a quick fix?
It’s kind of a conspiracy theory. Many people thought BK Kim’s injury back in early 2007 was fake, turned out to be real. Same with jeff Baker this season.
If it’s so easy, then why aren’t people trying to get away with it?
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
ANd I don't have any inside knowledge of how it works...
… so I could be wrong. It just doesn’t make sense, as the DL numbers would be MUCH higher. I do get the impression that the doctors have to be somewhat lenient, so as to avoid putting a player who is hurt back on the field by mistake. There’s probably more to the process than we know.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Probably
There’s a lot more to it. Keep in mind that while you would think that more teams would use phantom DL moves to get a player off the roster, it’s also a fairly rare situation where you have a guy in the minors who is clearly a better player than the guy who you want to replace. Even in a situation like Q and Eric Young Jr., that’s not CLEARLY better.
The latter portion is probably true as well. Doctors tend to be very cautious by nature, particularly in light of all the malpractice suits. They don’t want to risk the “you said he would be okay to play” reaction from the team, or from the player himself.
The plate umpire kicked a bat in front of Daley..
when he was covering home plate to backup Yorvit. Daley tripped on the bat and sprained his ankle. At least that’s what I got from the gamethread.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
It actually looked kinda nasty
And the kind of injury that might not swell up much for a couple hours.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Shocked to find the home plate umpire wasn't Angel.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
That entire crew is awful.
They’ve all been making mistakes.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I was wishing that Hurdle would just go balistic on one of those bad calls and get booted
in an effort to fire the team up.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I'd say that the co0nnection between getting your manager booted and playing well is a pretty farfetched connection...
… but they say it works, so what have we got to lose?
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions
what have we got to lose?
I think we are most assuredly in this area.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions
at least it would have shown that Hurdle was trying to do something.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Yes, but not tomorrow.
Speier is due for a return later this week. They may go ahead and activate him early, but they could also, presumably, call up Steven Register until Speier is ready to come back.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Wonder if Esmil Rogers is a possibility
Call him up, let him make a spot start, and move Hammel back to the bullpen.
I'd be shocked if that happens
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Hammel is a LOT more likely to make a good start than Rodgers, or anyone, making an MLB Debut
They’re going to call up a band-aid reliever.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Unless they choose to option down Corpas as well.
If that’s the case, they may opt for someone more permanent, than option C9orpas down when Speier returns.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
If they go with someone from the 40-man
it would have to be someone from this group:
Register
Lindsay
Rogers
Deduno
Or…recall Speier early, or boot someone off the 40-man. Or boot two guys off the 40-man if they get rid of one of the current 25.
I think this is where DFA's Erroret Outkins comes in to play
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Rearranging the 40 man to get Joel peralta or another AAA reliever up here...
… will probably occur if a move is made to get rid of Corpas too, but only then.
Rogers and Deduno are starters, and Lindsay is still AA. Register is the easiest of the three to serve as a bandaid.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Again
Unless the Rockies get in a bunch of 11-10 games this week (always a possibility), whoever gets called up to replace Daley won’t be pitching a whole lot, if at all.
Not necessarily.
Assuming we intend to keep Corpas, we have the band-aid, then Speier later.
But if we don’t keep Corpas, we’ll need Speier to replace him. Whoever replaces Daley in that situation has to pitch long enough for Morales to come back.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions
After browsing the stats...
… I’m going to say that either:
A) Register is called up tomorrow, then sent down when Speier returns.
B) Speier is activated after only half of his rehab is completed.
C) The Rockies outright/DFA a player, buy either Joel Peralta or Scott Munter, then option Corpas down when Speier is ready to return.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions
So who would you predict would get DFAed?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Well, here it always gets tricky.
Jabberwocky, read this, and maybe you can straighten it out.
I always used to think that every player could be outighted off the roster once in their career, for free. If that’s the case, the easy solution is to just do this to one of Mattheus/Rogers/Lindsay/Deduno, etc.
However, the Rockies haven’t been doing this, and have been exposing their roster players to waivers every time they get rid of them, through the traditional process of a DFA.
If they can outright a player, it’s easy. If not, they might DFA Mattheus due to him probably being the least likely to be claimed right now.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:32 PM MDT up reply actions
This is all, of course, assuming that my option C happens
If not, then this is a nonissue.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Doesn't work that way
In order to outright a player off the roster, he has to clear waivers.
The only difference between the two is that if a player is DFA’ed, he’s removed from the roster immediately so that a player can take his place right away. If a team just wants to outright a player, they’d have to wait for him to clear waivers before taking him off the roster.
I understand that an outright usually works that way.
But again, I was under the impression that players got one FREE outright, without being expodes to waivers.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:36 PM MDT up reply actions
What you're thinking of
Players can be outrighted to the minors once without their consent. After the “free” outright is used, the next time the team wants to outright a player, he has the right to refuse the assignment. But a player always has to clear waivers first.
This, by the way
is why the Rockies lost Koshansky: they tried to pass him through waivers in order to get him off the 40-man roster, and the Rangers claimed him off waivers.
Ah.
So the free outright is consent based, not result based. That must be exactly what I was thinking of. All outrights, even the consensual ones, still involve the waiver wire; I see.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't want to sound stupid
but wouldn’t it make sense to just send Q down? Notwithstanding Hurdle’s love affair with having him around for a late inning defensive replacement, what real good is he doing us sitting at the end of the bench?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Q is out of options.
We have to DFA him to remove him from the roster.
Hurdle has him for depth only, because his defense is not better than Tulo’s or Barmes’ (all three are fantastic).
If that move were made, we’d have only Tulo and Barmes to play SS, and only Barmes and Stewart to play 2B. If something weird happened to one of them, there might have to be some unusual switching midgame. Q’s presence on the team is simply depth in an area we only need depth due to risk of injury.
We’d only have a 4 man bench unless we called up another position player to replace him.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Eh...
To be perfectly blunt, most teams are going to use only 23 or 24 guys on their roster on a regular basis, with one or two guys just playing sparingly.
Here's the deal with DFA...
From PR Academy:
If a player does in fact clear waivers, he is outrighted to the minors. Though he has been removed from the 40-man roster, the player is still paid according to the terms of his guaranteed contract. A player can only be outrighted once in his career without his consent. His options on subsequent outrightings are as follows:
1) Reject the assignment and become a free agent
2) Accept the assignment and become a free agent at the end of the season if he’s not back on the 40-man roster.
In addition, a player with 3 years of major league service may refuse an outright assignment and choose to become a free agent, regardless of whether he has been sent outright to the minors previously. A player with five or more years of ML service time, as with minor league options, is given even more rights. The player cannot be outrighted even once without Veteran’s Consent, even if he clears waivers. If the player refuses his assignment to the minors, the team must either release him, making him a free agent, or keep him on the major league roster.
Basically, any time you want to DFA a player, even the first time—when teams can do this without the player’s consent, you must place him on irrecoverable outright waivers and he must clear them.
Eschew Obfuscation!
I also just noticed that Munter is on the DL
So it’d be Peralta for sure if they bought anybody.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions
He's still working on returning, is he not?
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I saw he pitched recently in one of the Pebble Reports...
but I haven’t been paying him too much attention.
Eschew Obfuscation!
If so, I'm not sure where he is.
He’s not with the Sky Sox where he was projected to be. Did they put him at AA to start with?
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Last I heard, he was to be promoted to the Sky Sox yesterday
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Ah...
Probably not the best idea to throw him into MLB right now.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I am looking at the AAA stats to explore depth options...
… and noticed that Mike McCoy pitched an inning for the Sky Sox. When did that happen?
Well, he did okay.
Call him up! Haha, jk.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
That would have been Thursday night
IF Kenny Perez threw a couple innings Wednesday…it was all in that series where the Iowa Cubs beat us silly.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Hehe
McCoy is at the top of the list with a 0.00 WHIP, while Perez has a 3.43 WHIP.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Perez gave up 5 runs in his second inning of work
but he pitched a scoreless inning before that. They were the only two “pitchers” to achieve a scoreless inning over those two days
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions
The I-Cubs
are beating a lot of people silly, largely because Jake Fox is still wasting his time in AAA.
On the bright side
I’d wager today’s game will help RG maintain the irked roll she was on this morning in terms of this mystical article she’s advertised in the last few days
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 17, 2009 5:42 PM MDT reply actions
Wow....
I managed to get through the whole day without seeing the score. I was SO proud of myself for not cheating and taking a peek. Well I just finished watching the game. I am at a loss for words with the exception of……
It’s time…..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
oh yeah...
Hurdle is 530 – 619.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
Manny Corpas
Play him off, Keyboard Cat.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
A few notes to help out the discussion
I could have put this into the tread but it was getting pretty right side squished.
Don’t dismiss calling up a player from AA as a possibility/option. It could happen and happens frequently with pitchers. In fact some GM’s have thought that the REAL prospects were in AA. If they made AAA with out making the majors the prospect was already suspect, or in another way, prospects go from AA to the majors…but they go down from the majors to AAA.
2) There is a term used around here that seems to be confusing a lot of people. It’s DFA or Designated For Assignment.
Designated for assignment is a contractual term used in Major League Baseball. When a player is designated for assignment, he is immediately removed from the club’s 40-man roster. This gives the club 10 days to decide what to do with the player while freeing up a roster spot for another transaction, if needed. After designating a player for assignment, the club must make one of the following contractual moves:
1 Place the player on waivers (which can only be done within the first 7 days of the 10-day period). If the player clears waivers, and is NOT claimed by another team he might be assigned to a minor league team.
2 Trade the player
3 Release the player
Basically DFA a player gives the team a window of 7 or 10 days to make a decision on what to do with that player. but the key is it TAKES THE PLAYER OF THE 40 MAN ROSTER. This give the club time to make a trade, talk the player into reporting to the minors if he clears (if he’s “out of options”…in which case if he cleared waivers he can become a Free Agent, and sign with another organization)
And for the Record
I think we will see Shane Lindsey called up to the Rockies. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Steven Register as well, and quite possibly both. But if Speier is about to be ready, then they might keep Corpas until then.
Lindsay is a possibility for a bandaid fix.
The last time we had a AA player come up midseason not as a September callup was Darren Clarke. it was a similar situation with our bullpen dropping like flies. I think Register is more likely, but you never know.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Lindsay is on the DL right now
I can’t wait to see him when he’s ready though, a power arm out of the pen will be nice.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
doesn't that frustrate you? It frustrates me
But then again, you pile so much important crap into your articles, I don’t blame anyone for missing them
PEOPLE USE THOSE ARTICLES AS REFERENCE MATERIAL
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions
The problem, I think, is that I cram too much information into each one...
making each hard to digest.
When I get rolling on a topic, I just don’t stop.
And I’m not frustrated btw, just happy to help.
Eschew Obfuscation!
Welcome to the world of Purple Row blogging.
You’ll note that this happens quite frequently. Just wait until you have the experience of when three weeks after you write something, somebody comes around and presents the exact same information as though it’s completely new and revelatory. That is really frustrating.
did you know that Garrett Atkins is slumping
we should trade him
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 18, 2009 8:26 AM MDT up reply actions
“If they made AAA with out making the majors the prospect was already suspect,”
That’s not necessarily true; AAA is also where most of the players who could have made the team but did not go.
Who was being confused by DFA? Everyone here seems to understand it fine.
Actually
there were out right questions about it, AND people were using the term “DFA” wrong, like it equaled the term “waivers”. A player can be traded, released, or waived, with out being DFA.
I was confused about outrighting...
… but that’s different from being designated for assignment.
by Greg Stanwood on May 17, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions
and for the AAA part
I was talking longer view. There was a time not that long ago, that many towns that had AAA teams felt they were getting screwed. They didn’t get to see the hot prospects, as they either skipped AAA, or made the briefest of stops
I just got onto Purple Row
and saw that 10-spot in the scoreboard. I’m just left wondering WTF?
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Only one thing can make me feel better at this time.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA
sorry…..had to do it.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
we're fighting now
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 17, 2009 11:48 PM MDT up reply actions
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