Saturday Rockpile: The Aftermath
by Bryan Kilpatrick on May 30, 2009 9:58 AM MDT
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PrintIn the wake of Clint Hurdle's firing, there are naturally many pieces out there that focus on why it happened:
Troy E. Renck talked to a few players (namely, Todd Helton) who addressed the fact that they are the reason why Hurdle got the axe. At the bottom of the article, Dan O' Dowd predicts that some Rockies may have a hard time adjusting to Jim Tracy's tough style of managing.
Meanwhile, Dave Krieger suggests that the ballclub's issues fall more on O'Dowd than Hurdle. By that, he means that the players on the field aren't getting the job done - which goes back to what Todd and the boys talked about in the previous article. One thing I thought was interesting was the fact that Dan O'Dowd pushed Clint Hurdle to get Ian Stewart consistent at-bats, while failing to make a roster move to open up a spot for him. As we know, Stewart has struggled mightily, but the two guys he could have replaced - Garrett Atkins and Clint Barmes - haven't done real well either.
Tracy Ringolsby echoed Dave Krieger's sentiment of Hurdle being the wrong fall guy in an article for FoxSports.com. I'll have to agree with the Cowboy - an attitude change is definitely overdue.
The move affected the entire organization, as Jack Etkin outlines in this article, as several coaches/managers were moved around to fill in spots after Hurdle's exit/Tracy's promotion.
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Tracy's tough managing, I thought he was considered a softy
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
The complaining about him seems somewhat vague.
“Laid back” and the like. But other comments speak to his work with his bullpen, his attention to detail and work with the running game. I’m all for taking a wait and see approach before we hang him up.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
by pedalpusher on May 30, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't recall ever hearing Atkins coming out and saying he wouldn't sell himself short like some of his teammates.
Maybe he did, but I just don’t recall that.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I remember
He said it. I have thought a lot about it since, because it was a bad move for Atkins. The Rockies were lucky on that one.
What I got out of Ringolsby’s article was that those were the thoughts of Hurdle. I believe Ringolsby and Hurdle were very close. I wouldn’t doubt that Hurdle said something to Ringolsby about this a couple of years ago, and Tracy just kept it tucked away.
If Hurdle really felt that way he should have insisted that Atkins get traded, or simply stopped playing him.
At the time I took another view of Atkins statement. To me he was saying that he was willing to take a chance because he felt he was only going to get better.
Well, I remember him saying he'd take the chance but I don't remember him saying
he “wouldn’t sell himself short like Francis, Tulowitzki and Hawpe”. I just don’t remember him naming names. If that had been public, the media would have made a ruckus of a comment like that. And I think he would have been traded asap.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
by pedalpusher on May 30, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm pretty certain he only named Francis
Whatever, after 2009, he won’t have to worry about selling himself short, because every team will be offering him short money. I mean, how much are you really going to play a .195 hitter with declining bat speed and marginal defense?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
The Monforts
Wouldn’t it be a difficult thing to do to fire the GM, who you built a friendship/relationship for the past ten years? I’m sure they’ve had one another of to the house for a bbq or something. Not saying it would be the wrong move, but it’d be hard to fire a friend. I know, I know “don’t do business with friends”.
Krieger
sums up my thoughts pretty succinctly. I don’t think firing Hurdle was the wrong move, because to me the manager’s job is making the team operate at a level that is greater than the sum of its parts, and I don’t think that has happened recently. But I wholeheardedly agree that Hurdle was not the whole problem, and firing him is, as many have put, mostly a symbolic gesture which is fine and good if it is now followed by some more significant moves and/or improvements.
You hit the proverbial nail on the haed, my friend.
"What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan
by Bryan Kilpatrick on May 30, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Why keep Hurdle?
He may well have been the scapegoat, but what reasons could there possibly have been to keep Hurdle as manager? Because he’s a good guy? Because he’s loyal? Because he took some hits for O’Dowd and ownership? His record simply was not good enough, so a change was made.
Two names: Bobby Valentine as manager, Rick Peterson as pitching coach.
can they afford bobby valentine?
Don't say nothing about A.J. Pierzynski without good cause , even if you do have one i will still kick your butt. As the young woman who believes he's better than most idiots around here that don't understand him. i like my menace. GO SOX! Women rule the world Men just live in it to do as we say.
by pierzynskirules on May 30, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I think they've got a better shot at Joe Girardi
after the Yankees fire him after this season.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
I liked the Terry Pendleton idea
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: http://tinyurl.com/mo975h
by Andrew Martin on May 30, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's one
How about Todd Helton as a player/manager?
I’m kidding. Maybe.
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
But not this one
Definitely don’t make Manny Corpas a player/pitching coach.
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
I like this idea too, but....
I think it’s more likely that Bobby Cox retires after this season and Terry gets the Braves job.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
That would have been mine..
But it makes too much sense for the Cheapforts to do it.
by PinchHitLancePainter on May 31, 2009 6:19 AM MDT up reply actions
How 'bout
Don Mattingly? He was cheesed to not get the Yankees job and could do fine. I like his emphasis on fundamental baseball. Maybe he could even get Garrett to bat with his mouth closed.
Not sure who’s available but Joe Maddon’s clone would be nice too.
InToddwetrust
Maddon
might be over-hyped. For one thing, that team has a ton of talent, second, I remember Maddon making some bone-headed decisions in the playoffs.
I prefer to call them
Imminent Victory threads
But they’ve been misnamed a bit too often this season.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Starting Lineup
D. Fowler cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .260
C. Barmes 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .235
T. Helton 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .321
G. Atkins 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .191
B. Hawpe rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333
S. Smith lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .268
T. Tulowitzki ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .224
P. Phillips c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .500
J. Hammel p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
may i ask why
Outkins is batting clean up again lol geez
12 down....4 to go for a repeat Go Wings!!!
by TuLoRocks2008 on May 30, 2009 5:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Hard outs
I don’t know, even though he didn’t get a hit last night he did smoke the ball three times and looked to have more bat speed than I recall him having all year. I say let him stay in the #4 slot for awhile and see what happens. We’re pretty much out of contention in May unless there’s a miracle anyway (and a miracle would revolve around Atkins and everybody else turning their season around) so there’s not much to lose. On the other hand if Atkins puts together a couple solid weeks as a clean-up hitter, maybe the St. Louis scenario is a possibility.
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