Wednesday Rockpile: Rockies Fans, the Opportune Moment has Arrived
by Jeff Aberle on May 6, 2009 7:54 AM MDT
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PrintWell, Rockies fans, that sucked. Colorado lost another one run game, bringing the total tally to eight losses this year with zero victories--and just as Matt Daley was getting a glowing article written about him by Thomas Harding and one praising his delivery by Troy Renck. On a night in which San Diego drew only 13,646 people, the Rockies wasted a sterling outing by Aaron Cook and, quite frankly, I'm done talking about it.
Let's look to the future instead. The Rockies now will return to their home turf for an eight game home-stand against beatable opposition. If the Rockies are going to make a serious run this year, they'd sure as heck better feast on this kind of opposition, especially at home. With the Dodgers playing as well as they are, the Rockies can't afford not to. As Johnny Depp would said: perhaps the Rockies were merely waiting for the opportune moment to play their best baseball. Or perhaps the Rockies subscribe to the Thomas Hobbes theory that life (and baseball) is nasty, brutish, and short. I'll hope for now that the Rockies have some better baseball in them as they enter the easy part of the schedule.
Lately the Rockies' starters have been very good, and who knows, maybe Hurdle will keep his latest lineup change (Atkins out of the cleanup spot) long enough to spark some more of the bats. Before last night's game, Tracy Ringolsby wrote yet another "increased urgency" article (albeit a well-written one), with some Clint Hurdle comments in response to the team's early season performance:
"I don’t consider it early,’’ said Hurdle. "I think it is time to move on. It is time to play good baseball. I’m not going to sit on my hands for 40 games and then go from there. We have a good team and we need to expect to play like a good team."
Ringolsby goes on to defend (or at least try to justify) Hurdle's juggling of the lineup thus far this year, talking also about the influence of the media in blowing some of these moves out of proportion.
Hurdle stuck to the company line, so to speak, when talking about one-run games:
"A good team wins it’s share of one-run games,’’ said Hurdle. "We know that. We know we have a good team. We need to play like a good team."
Meanwhile, Renck answers some questions in his mailbag. Topics include Tulo's benching, Ubaldo's consistency, Orlando Hudson, and Jason Grilli.
Finally, Terry Frei whines about baseball. His grievances: pants, pitch counts, time, and seamheads. I'm guessing he doesn't like to read Purple Row.
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Frei's article
Every so often I come across an article that makes me miss Fire Joe Morgan. That’s definitely one of them. Even if he’s half right in his ‘pitch count’ gripe (the bit about bullpen usage being ‘by the book’ is pretty dead-on).
I’ll have thoughts on Hurdle in a little bit – gotta go make live radio for a while longer.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Frei's article
The only part of this article that I agree with is the part about the pants. Any time my father-in-law hears of someone doing something truly stupid he sums up all his astonishment by simply saying "If stupid hurt, that guy would not have done that." Well one day someone will get tangled up in his baggy pants rounding third in the 7th game of the world series and then, at long last, STUPID HURT.
As far as the time of the game goes, that is one of my all time pet peeves. I agree with George Frazier. If you only want to watch baseball for 3 hours, then watch for three hours and then go do something else. This game is not on a clock. IMO to truly understand and enjoy the game you should understand the gamesmanship and strategy that goes on between every pitch. If that means it takes more than some set amount of time to play a game then so be it.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
You would think a guy making $6M a year could
have procured a more suitable gratification device. I digress. I have to believe the upcoming homestand is a make or break for several people.
1. Hurdle. Bad homestand and pink slip is likely.
2. O’Dowd. Less likely but at some point where does his accountability begin to be questioned.
3. Corpas. Basically he has one outing to prove he belongs or sent down.
4. Atkins. The clock is ticking, with a younger/cheaper perhaps more viable solution in the wings, when is this trigger pulled?
5. Tulo. I am of the opinion he needs to be sent down to re-establish himself. His offensive game is just horrible.
by PinchHitLancePainter on May 6, 2009 8:50 AM MDT reply actions
If you DFA Atkins /and/ option Tulo...
…who’s your new infield?
…particularly since IIRC, you’re also one of the Rowbots who says Barmes should be a utility player…
…I figure you’re probably putting Stewie at third, but…what else do you do, put Barmes back at SS and call up EY2 to play 2B?
…or is there something I’m stil not thinking of here?
It'll Be like little league
where the manager just looks over the guys and girls and says….Spilly…you’re at short, Fowler….you have 2nd today.
My humble opinions
1. Whatever, everyone seems to want Hurdles head on a platter, but he is not the one that can’t hit the ball with runners in scoring position. 2nd and 3rd nobody out and you do not score, that falls on the players. There are plenty of other reasons to maybe let him go, (I guess) but don’t use him as a scapegoat for players not doing their jobs.
2. Take his total body of work into account. The minor leagues were bad when he started and are now some of the best in MLB. I am not saying he should not be replaced, I am just saying he has done some good.
3. The only thing we disagree with here it I am not sure why he gets one more shot. He has not pitched will since 2007 (save a month and a half last year maybe). I don’t see anything that makes me think one more try is going to flip the switch.
4. I would love to agree with you on this. The only problem is right now Ian Stewart is cold as ice. Please do not get me wrong, I think that Stewart is a MUCH better athlete and could be very, very good. Atkins is historically a slow starter while Stewart has no history to make you think he will make the necessary adjustment at the big league level. If Stewart can make those adjustments at the plate and can proove that he can make adjustments as pitchers make adjustments to him, he could very easily make Atkins expendable. I really hope he does because I am not interested in paying Atkins a ton of money to contune to ground out with runners in scoring position.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Missed point 5
5. I don’t think sending him to Colorado Springs his going to help anything. However, sitting him for 3 or 4 starts and getting Quntanilla some playing time might be a thought. You can’t take Tulo’s glove out of the infield. I think what may need to happen is for the team and the fans to lower their expectations of what he can do at the bat. Rather than expecting him to turn it on and be a .315 hitter with 25 homers hitting in the middle of the order. We should just come to the realization that he is what he is. A bottom of the order hitter who will hit .260 – .270 with occational power. A guy that will get pinch hit for in later innings when the Rockies need runs, but we will over look all of that because of his defense. We also have to come to the conclusion that he is way overpaid. Then if he ever does live up to his potential and rookie year then we can all be plesantly suprised.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Giving Omar Quintanilla playing time should never be a solution...
ever. Bring up EY2 and dump Q!
Eschew Obfuscation!
I really think that solution would just result in more frustration
He realllly doesn’t look ready, and even if he was, he’s not going to magically revolutionize this team
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Why is that
He is very good in the field. Yea he doesn’t hit that great but neither does Tulo right now.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Atkins is creating an issue...
He really has little trade value at this point, which I had assumed the hope of the FO was that he would start well, and depending on how the team as a whole was doing, could be trade bait this summer. Unfortunately, he has not performed well enough to generate any outside interest. Therein lies the problem, do they keep playing him with the hope that he heats up, or determine that he is washed up and turn to the future.
Stewart looks like he could use a couple of the “work days” off. He looks like he is “thinking” at the plate instead of just reacting. Obviously, he has not figured out how to consistently hit the inside pitch yet. Should be the exact type of project the Rox brought in Baylor for.
Tulo does not appear to have the same swagger that he did in 2007 when he “demanded” the team not have a losing season. Could that be a result of the “culture of losing” mentioned in another post having enveloped him too?
What upsets me the most, as an avid baseball and Rockies fan, is the apparent apathy of the team. I can see the hustle and effort, but not the passion for winning. That is depressing…
We obviously can't quantify any of this
Which sets off all my alarms
But I kind of agree with all of it.
It almost seems like they’re waiting with bated breath just like us, waiting for the “big firing” to occur, so they can be all shaken up and start winning.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions
submitted as
only my humble opinion, not an attempt at scientific analysis. I will leave the number crunching to others on this site that are far more qualified than I, to do so.
meh sounds like work
I’ll just agree with you
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Not that this matters but...
Was doing some comparisons to 2007 and at this point in 2007 (25 games in) the Rockies had an identical 10-15 record and were about to finish April with another loss. The wins and losses came about the same times as well (ironically).
I’m keeping my chin up, but we’ll see. Last night… I don’t even want to think about it.
I got nothing.
My brother keeps telling me...
that the Rockies’ month is September… but we need to get through the other months first. A May-June-July like they had in 07 would be awesome/couldn’t hurt.
I got nothing.
I totally agree
The schedule in April and June it brutal with only 9 home games per month. May is a little better with 14. Then July has 16 even with the all-star break. August has 14 and then finish up with 18 in September. The Dodgers are going to have to cool off a little bit at some point. If the Rockies can just hand in there and be withing screaming distance at the all-star break, then this season will not be a total loss.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Hurdle
I’ve never been a fan of making a move for the sake of making a move, whether the reason behind it was good faith or ‘shaking things up’. The latter, in particular, seems like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig. But seeing as this team is 10-15 and being left in the dust in the West already, I can certainly hear the clock ticking on Clint Hurdle. And while I’m not 100 percent convinced it will change anything at all, much less turn the season around completely, I can see it happening very soon.
We used to talk around here about a ‘culture of losing’ that seemed to surround the Rockies. I never really bought into that myself, but that talk tends to stop when you win a pennant anyway. What I do think exists, though, is an ‘atta-boy’ culture, or a ‘nice try’ culture, that while well intentioned has fostered mediocrity within this franchise.
The Rockies play hard. They try. They’ve got 25 guys on the roster that don’t seem likely to pull a Denny Neagle any time soon. It’s a solid group of guys. Clint Hurdle’s as good a man as there is in baseball. I don’t think there’s much for debate there. But I think there’s just too much back-slapping going on – like, it’s OK if you’re hitting .240 as long as you aren’t getting tossed from games or screaming at fans or beating your wife or whatever. At least you tried, right?
I don’t know how much merit there is to this. It just seems to me like an acceptable EFFORT is all that’s being asked for, and not acceptable RESULTS. Maybe those results are coming. There are good signs every night that seem to be off-set with discouraging signs. But I just think it’s time for somebody to put a foot down and say, ‘Hey, you want to be in the lineup? You want to play every day? You want to get that phone call in the bullpen? Help us win ballgames.’
It gets tiresome to read stories about how we’re ‘coming around’ or ‘almost there’. I want to know why we aren’t there yet.
Maybe Hurdle’s firing would be the sign that this franchise needs – a sign that your manhood and your best effort just aren’t enough. You need to find ways to win. This team hasn’t done that. That’s not entirely Hurdle’s fault, of course. But if he got axed it might result in some soul searching. Maybe Hurdle can bring that about himself. I don’t know.
Does any of this make sense? I don’t know. I’m still only midway through cup of coffee #1 this morning.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on May 6, 2009 9:33 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Applause
And I am a guy who appreciates effort, very much so – I value dignity and diligence and all the other things I struggle to achieve myself! But it is possible that Hurdle as a sacrificial victim might jolt some of the players into achieving that tiny bit more we need to win games.
In a game as marginal as baseball, these margins have to be explored and exploited whenever possible. Firing a manager is a different tactic entirely, but it could work many of these marginal areas at once. I don’t suggest doing it lightly, but it has to be a consideration.
Right on.
I do like the idea of a team filled with “good” guys that play hard…as opposed to a bunch of Rasheed Wallace types or whatever. But none of these guys are my friends, so at the end of the day I prefer wins to attaboys. Seems like a lot of “bad” teams are filled with good guys.
I’m still not sure firing Hurdle solves anyting, though I’m not opposed to it. But the Dodgers are so much better than us from top to bottom right now, its not worth arguing about. Even a dramatic turnaround will still have us sitting 10 games south by the end of the year.
re: Dodgers vs Rox
I agree that the Dodgers “right now” are a better built team. I just want to note, though, that I think the Rockies have certainly built the foundation to compete with them this year and going forward and that might involve coaching changes.
In many ways I see similarities between the Dodgers from the past couple years and the Rockies this year – a lot of young talent still learning how to harvest those skills into winning ball. From top to bottom the Rockies are capable of turning guys like Tulo, Stewart, Ianetta, Jimenez, etc. (the list really does go on) into the All-Star caliber players in the same mold of the Dodgers’ Kemp, Loney, Ethier, and Kershaw. Granted, those Dodgers are performing much better than any of the Rockies I mentioned this year, but, thats not to say those Rockies can’t reach their full potential and be better than the Dodgers top to bottom.
Maybe in the past Hurdle has done a good job of managing existing talent. Ultimately, however, I think when you have so many guys with loads of potential that aren’t entirely achieving it, one of the first places management has to look at making changes is the coaching staff.
One theory
Maybe Hurdle was the right manager to get us from Point A (04-05, where there was nothing at the big league level) to Point B (07-09, where the talent is in place and the farm system is bearing fruit). Maybe he’s just not the guy to get us to Point C.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Very well said
I can’t find any evidence to the contrary. Hurdle seems to be the manager of boys more than the manager of men.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 6, 2009 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions
That's roughly been my sentiment for the past 3 years
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to say
that the Rox don’t have the same raw talent as the dodgers, or long-term potential…just that the teams, as presently constituted, are really not very close at all. And even if guys like Tulo and Atkins pick up the pace, it doesn’t come close to covering the gap. I think I’d be hard pressed to name one single direct position comparison where an objective observer would choose the Rox player (for this season). A few close calls, but in any case none clearly favor colorado and several overwhelmingly favor LA.
Whatever, the point is that we are incredibly unlikely to win the division this year no matter what happens with the manager. We need to make whatever moves position us best for 2010 and the development of the players — which may involve firing Hurdle — but the long view should be taken here.
Right, Agreed
Totally agree with you and hope you didn’t think I was trying to undermine your point with my Dodgers/Rockies comparison…just wanted to sort of point out the similarities between the Dodgers of the previous few years and the Rockies this year and the potential the Rockies have to perform at that same level.
I think I’d be hard pressed to name one single direct position comparison where an objective observer would choose the Rox player (for this season). A few close calls, but in any case none clearly favor colorado and several overwhelmingly favor LA.
CF, possibly?
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
That's why I said "possibly".
Because if it’s Pierre vs. Fowler, it’s a tougher choice.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Who are..
…the “guys with loads of potential that aren’t entirely achieving it”?
Just wondering who you are counting here. E.g., Fowler, Tulo, Francis?
RE:
Tulo, Stewart, Iannetta, Jimenez and Fowler are guys that come immediately to mind as young players with loads of talent that have yet to achieve it. And that’s not to say I expected anything more out of a guy like Fowler (actually just the opposite – he’s exceeded expectations); just that he hasn’t reached his full potential yet.
So my point was that if the Rockies want to maximize the potential of these young players, coaching generally plays an integral part of that development and, perhaps, Hurdle isn’t the right man for the job.
Hmm...
I’m not sure I agree those 4 guys are at the stage where you hold the major league staff accountable.
Tulo is struggling this year, but he played much better than expected in his rookie year, and rebounded from an even more horrible start and an injury with in his 2nd. But clearly he’s the most troubling, given slow starts in consecutive years.
Stewart has also hit a dry spell, but is also still early in his development cycle. From high A on, his stats never said star to me, and his K rates were high even then. So I am not surprised there are some growing pains with Stewart.
I know less about Iannetta, but he had a tremendous 2008 and looks to be rebounding strongly from a slow 2009 start. Even with the slow start, he’s a better than avg hitter for a NL catcher.
Jimenez has a great arm but it seems to me his performance has been better than projections based on his minor league numbers. There’s a lot of hard throws with command issues and they’re difficult to overcome at the ML level, esp. in an environment like Coors Field. His first two years were pretty strong, so I guess it comes down to a bad 2nd, 3rd, and 4th start of the season?
The one thing Hurdle seems to do well is bring along young players. Maybe they are succeeding in spite of him, but the Rockies’ success rate with young players has been pretty high if that’s the case. A large number of young players have come through since he became manager and have played well.
In contrast, it’s hard to think of many flameouts. Who would one count? Closser? He hasn’t gotten a cup of coffee since he left the organization, so maybe he never really had it? There may well be some pitchers, but I find their development a little dicier in general, so it’s hard to know how much blame to give Hurdle for Chacon not finding command in the majors or Jennings not taking the step from ok, Marquis-level starter to superior starter.
So it’s hard to imagine that Hurdle became bad with young players all of a sudden.
Fair Points
I definitely hear what you’re saying and you make some really good points. But I think a little is getting lost in translation with regard to my main point. My last post, in response to your question, was just aimed at naming a few guys that were “young with loads of talent” that need to be developed and mentored and have the chance to become stars.
My primary point that I made in the re: Dodgers/Rockies post was that talented guys (i.e., Tulo, Atkins, Barmes, Iannetta) that have performed in the past aren’t doing so this year. When you aren’t getting production out of proven talent you turn an eye to the manager. In this case, its the same manager that has only taken the team to the post-season once in 7 seasons, has finished in the bottom half of the division in 5 out of his 7 seasons, and has only had one season where the team finished above .500. All this, I believe, is evidence to the point that Hurdle has not been able to turn his talented young players into consistent winners (and this is something I would not want to happen to young talents like Fowler or Stewart).
While you may still disagree, I hope that clarifies things a bit.
Nailed it for me
Particularly:
It gets tiresome to read stories about how we’re ‘coming around’ or ‘almost there’. I want to know why we aren’t there yet.
“Atta-boys” and “moral victories” simply don’t cut it in pro sports. Thank you for such an eloquent post.
The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul
Tulo
For what it’s worth, Tulo has been playing a bit better, with 7 hits in the last 7 games, along with 2 Ks – compared to 0 hits and 8 Ks in the previous 6 games. Hopefully the light is slowing coming on.
Reviews of some great baseball sites and other cool stuff on my blog @ The Casual Observer
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
There is a riposte to Fangraphs and everyone else who thinks it's a done deal
Which involves looking at the standings from a statistical standpoint. Sadly, I’m not the man to do so as I have an understanding of stats and probability but not the maths training to explain it properly, but the sample size is way too small right now pretty much sums it up.
Another view: BPro's monte carlo sims
Well, there are also the postseason odds reports at Baseball Prospectus, which come very much from a statistical standpoint (they use monte carlo sims). They essentially re-project the season, using existing records as handicaps, while adding some regression.
The base sim has the Dodgers winning the division 74% of the time, with the Rockies at 7%.
There’s also a version that uses PECOTA projections to help establish expected win pct from here on out. That one has the Dodgers winning the division 83% of the time, with the Rockies just below 1%
The 2nd estimate is more pessimistic for the Rockies because it uses PECOTA, where the Rockies were projected to be below .500, and because the 1st method uses pythag records to help estimate expect win pct here on out…meaning it treats the Rockies as if they have been a .500 team for the first 25 games of the season.
There’s a 3rd model, but uh, yeah, let’s not look at that one.
Sadly I think they are right
I was telling my son last night I expect LA to win 90-95 games. Basically I think the Rockies will be lucky to win 77. They cannot win consistently on the road and so far their home performances do not suggest they could pull off a 50 win season at Coors (which is likely the only way they make a run).
My earlier observations were just that. There are question areas.
So the question begs as to when do they pull the plug on this season and what moves do they make. A few things to ponder on the offense side.
1. Helton is locked as long as his Contract in place.
2. 2nd base is a real question mark. Obviously Stewart is out of position here and Barmes,although a solid glove, is not as offensive minded as we wish. EY Jr is an interesting proposition because he would add additional speed that is sorely needed. I firnly believe that good speed and SB threats at the top of the order equate to more fastballs for the meat guys. The question is when is he ready.
3. SS I do not advocate getting rid of Tulo but I think he needs some major help at the plate. He is not using all fields as he did during his glory days. He opens up too quick, tries to pull everything, has shortened his stance and lost plate coverage and balance. Perhaps he should look at his 07 ABs and then spend some serious sessions in the cage in an effort to replicate.
4. 3B. Once they get behind by 11-12 games they should start Stewart at 3B. He is a defensive upgrade, has more speed, and is ready. His current plate woes to me revolve around his technique. He wants balls out over the plate to extend his arms. As a result he is laying off inside pitches and getting rung up. He should back off the plate about 3 inches in his stance to give him inside plate coverage Scouts at this level exploit known weaknesses and you have to adjust. This seems to be his biggest issue. I have been impressed with his new found discipline this year but you have to adjust. As for Atkins, if you cannot get anything for him then relegate him to part time duty and late inning PH.
5. C Ianetta: He may be the team MVP by the end of the year. I think he is hitting his stride and I see a .280, 25 HRs, 90 RBI season for him.
6. LF: Spilborghs is a solid player. I would try not to overuse him as he might wear down.
7. CF Fowler stays put
8. RF Hawpe stays and should hit cleanup expect when lefties are pitching. But given his success against them I feel more comfortable with his performance there. He has done some things that have impressed me because he was always one of my frustration points at his inability to adjust. This year he is showing me great plate discipline, great plate coverage, a mentality to take what is given.
by PinchHitLancePainter on May 6, 2009 11:58 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree w/ most of what you are saying here
and I think EY Jr may eventually be the answer at 2B, and it could be Gomez or Nelson, which I think may be better options overall. Right now EYJ is the closest, but not ready yet IMO. I also think there seems to be an obsession w/ speed, which I like for defensive purposes, but the problem I have w/ it is offensively. Most guys w/ speed, at least that we have had, sacrifice power and overall hitting ability, and only bring speed to the table. While I agree that speed is a nice tool, and does get other hitters more fastballs, it doesn’t if they aren’t on base, and therein lies the problem.
I think Fowler is presenting that issue right now, he’s not on base enough to pose problems for other teams and help our hitters get fastballs behind him. I love watching him run everything down in the OF, but he is not earning his spot at the plate right now. I have seen him hesitate a little more in running the last few games when he is on as well. I can admit one thing about Fowler, I didn’t think he was ready for big league pitching at the start of the year, and I think now he is, but he needs to readjust as pitchers have readjusted to him.
I guess what I’m getting at is, speed is great, but its not buying us anything if these speed guys continue to have trouble getting on and are not offsetting that inability w/ some power or XBH’s. I don’t think EYJ would be on base enough at this point to help us. I think Fowler is also having this issue right now. I am more excited about someone like Gonzalez being inserted at some point, not quite the same top end speed, but speed to make a difference and more overall tools.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
And, by the way
I do agree, that for better or worse, speed is going to become a bigger part of the game as power numbers continue to decrease. Trust me, I do not hate smaller faster guys either, or even faster guys in general, as I was one of those smaller, faster leadoff hitter types. I just think we can’t trade away hitting ability because we are enamored w/ speed.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
EYJ, while speedy
Is gonna be a bench player. He’s very one dimensional, and unless he somehow finds a way to be a .380 OBP guy for real (so he can use that speed and damn the SLG), he’s not gonna be much more.
I want him to do well…but yeah
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
He’s very one dimensional
Well, yeah.
Ok, PHLP and I remember a totally different game than you’ve experienced. A one dimensional speed guy is just fine as we move past the roid era, and back to the 80’s (normalized baseball) They don’t have to hit for power and that’s ok…they make their power from getting on, and messing with the pitchers delivery and timing. (SLG% means jack squat with these guys) They do have to get on though.
And in broad generalities and stereotyping the speed guys “usually” are/were plus defensively at least in that they usually have a greater range.
One-dimensional speed guys weren't big in the 80's either
Hey, I was around during the 80’s, too, and the statistical evidence was that speed (in terms of basestealing) was overrated then, as well. OBP + power are what made Rickey and Raines great, and OBP was Brett Butler’s strength, not his speed.
Further, what makes anyone think scoring is going to get anywhere near 1980’s levels, which were rarely above 4.0-4.1 runs/game per team? MLB-wide, r/g haven’t been below 4.5/game since 1992. I don’t know when the post-steroid era is supposed to have started, but since testing and suspensions were introducted, scoring hasn’t been below 4.9/game.
That said, speed on the basepaths and in the field (like the Herzog Cardinals) was indeed fun to watch.
I don't think run scoring will drop to 1980 levels
as players are better conditioned and coached, even with out ‘roids. Also we have have 4 additional teams, which dilutes pitching (though increase in population and recruitment out side the US should negate this). BUT baseball isn’t about sitting and waiting for the 3 run home run any more either.
There will be an adjustment to manufacturing runs again I believe. Bunting guys on, and over, hitting the ball behind the runner even if it’s an out, ext. And part of that will be emphasizing speed again. And I’m not talking the superstars. You are right that Raines and Henderson had power, I’m talking the boarder line guys, the UL Washingtons, the Mickey Rivers, the Mark Belanger’s of the world. The guys that had speed, defense and a toothpick in their mouth will be viable more so then they have been, when running meant running into outs, while the managers waited for the 3 run bomb.
Remember that offensive range and defensive range are different tools
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 6, 2009 5:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Daley Articles
I agree…lets look forward…but just wanted to comment on how well Daley has pitched despite the bad result last night and note that I think the praise he was getting in those articles is well deserved.
Two weeks ago Hurdle was putting in then-closer Corpas in the situation Daley was in last night. Daley did well getting out of the 9th inning jam created by Embree and had several tough calls go against him in the 10th (as brooksbaseball.net graphs show) before issuing a walk and surrendering his first mlb hit.
The fact that Daley – who made his mlb debut a about two weeks ago and really flew under the radar in the minors – has gained the confidence of his teammates, the coaching staff, and the media (not to mention some pretty laudatory comments by many contributors right here during the last several in-game threads) in such a short time is a real testament to the quality of his stuff.
I hope Hurdle doesn’t continue his flavor of the week routine with the pen (sorry, had to take a shot) and continues to let Street do his job as the closer, has Grilli continue to set up, Rusch continue as long-man, and allows Daley to complement those three as a versatile member of the pen that is more than capable of getting tough outs because, as I see it, this pen has demonstrated the potential to be a strong suit of the team (especially if other members of the pen can return to form with some rest/mechanical work).
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