Manny Ramirez will be suspended 50 games for positive drug test
This might just be the break we need, boys and girls!
almost 3 years ago
Andrew Martin
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Just watchin them talking about it on espn
had to come see what everyone else thinks of this the only thing that comes to my mind is how dumb do you have to be to STILL be using ped’s
"I've never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn't appreciate the grind, the discipline... I firmly believe that any man's finest hour - this greatest fulfillment to all he holds dear is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle, victorious." - Vince Lombardi
He's Manny?
He is pretty old and has been slugging and defying age.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree
however, it’s MANNY RAMIREZ
DUMB
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Rockies just can't catch a break....
Great, now the Dodgers will be starting Juan Pierre. A guy with a better avg .355 vs .348 and plays better defense!!
BTW- nice avatar nodakroxfan!
Ef you baldo try Hair-Be Dere!!
Please tell me
You don’t actually think Pierre is better than Manny?
by Brendan Scolari on May 7, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
Manny Ks 18% of the time this year and Pierre only 3%. Pierre is also worth 43 more runs over average in UZR/150 than Manny. And the topper is Pierre is available to start for the next 50 games.
Ef you baldo try Hair-Be Dere!!
Strikeouts aren't everything
Pierre never walks (wastes outs), grounds out a lot, he may never K, but he also never hits for any discernible power.
Yeah, Pierre is a better glove, but his bat is so generally worthless, they won’t combine to be more valuable than Manny.
At least Torre has the stones to sit an overpaid guy who should be starting anyhow.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 8, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Think Dave Cameron wants to wipe away his article from yesterday?
Nice timing on that Dave. Wow. This is incredible. Hopefully this shakes more than the three spot in your rotation
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 9:50 AM MDT reply actions
lineup...not rotation
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions
The
Rockies fan in me rejoices for the possibilities, the baseball fan in me wishes this kind of thing would stop happeneing, the fantasy manager in me is worried about what this will do to Hudson and Ethier.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
Yeah, I agree with the baseball fan part.
But at least it shows that to some degree the drug testing is working and the punishment is pretty severe.
Cue that clip of Carl Lewis butchering the National Anthem... UH-OH!
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I wish
Manny would be THIS Manny more often, like in Boston.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Can we trust any numbers anymore?
Damn. This is good news for us but kind of heartbreaking as a baseball fan.
Yeah, you can still trust his numbers
The thing is that steroids help older players KEEP playing at the level they once were at.
How else did Bonds and Clemens keep performing at the elite rates they were at their relative age?
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
This isn't always the case, though
A-Rod was using the roids in his late 20s (and may have been in HS). While there’s been no direct evidence of roid use by Pujols, he’s been tied to a couple training-regimen type people who have been tied to roids, and he’s not even 30 yet.
Clemens probably actually started the roids early in his Blue Jays days, when he really wasn’t that old.
So while your point is certainly valid, it’s definitely not exclusive.
That said, my money’s on him more likely to be on amphetamines than it is on roids.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
and he’s not even 30 yet
Prove it.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
Prove that Pujols isn't 30?
I can’t prove that any more than to say no one’s ever come forward with a forged birth certificate for him….
Anyway, my point is, he was training with these guys several years ago, and if he’s 30 now, he certainly wasn’t in 2004.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
don't do this
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Haha. . . .
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Am I the only one who thinks
You know, if ever there were a baseball player to say “I didn’t know what I was taking,” and be believable, wouldn’t it be Manny?
I’m kinda bummed because I’ve always liked watching him hit. I’m kinda excited because the Dodgers just got a whole lot worse for the next two months. I’m kinda sad that this will once again raise all those “Invalidate the numbers, steroids are worse than Hitler, burn this guy at the stake, he’s only a good baseball player because he took steroids” voices.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
This is exactly why I don't care about steroids
Manny’s skill is Manny’s skill. The juice has just helped him keep doing it.
I don’t want to know WHAT Bonds was taking, though.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
This is exactly why I do care about it
Because the natural age regression IS part of baseball, and should be part of baseball.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
and eventually no amount of roids will keep you from breaking
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Well
whether you like it or not these guys are role models. And when you allow Major League players to take steroids you are telling every college, high school and eventually little league player that it is in their best interest to do steroids if you want to make the majors. I understand that hitting a baseball is a skill that is not necessarily enhanced by steroids, but is it very cynical to say that you don’t care about steroids – if your kid started taking them in 8th grade and said he thought he had to to get better I bet you would change your tune.
by cocainelips99 on May 7, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
A kid from my sister's HS class
took steroids to bulk up for HS football. He got a brain tumor from ’em, and died blind and in bed at the age of 21. This happened less than a year ago.
Shit like that still goes on.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
I agree with you 100%
It’s kind of separating my sports mind.
One mind just wants to see good baseball.
The other just wants to see players being good citizens and signing autographs for kids.
At this point, I want Manny to be the former, he’s too big of an idiot for the latter.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 8, 2009 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Skill isn't divorced from strength
If he’s juiced, his skill ain’t what made him so good.
Really?
OK, dude, go take some steroids for five months and let me know how it goes trying to turn around a 95 mph fastball. In fact, take steroids for five YEARS, and let me know how it goes for you.
Steroids don’t do nothing, but let’s not pretend they’re magic beans.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Jason Giambi post-steroids
respectfully disagrees.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Giambi
Giambi ‘post-steroids’ hit 32 jacks in 2005, 37 in 06, and 32 more in 08. Posted OPS+ in excess of 100 each year. It’s not like he suddenly became, I dunno, Conor Jackson or anything.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
THEY ARE MAGIC BEANS. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
So because steroids can’t make a no-talent hack like me hit a big league baseball somehow means they can’t make talented guys better? This point is inane. If you don’t think steroids make players a lot better at the game, there’s no sense arguing with you. But for the record, if I had much faster reaction time, higher batspeed, capable of swinging a heavier bat, and a higher tolerance to fatigue, among other qualities that my natural self does not have, perhaps I could turn on a 95 mile heater. Certainly, I’d have a much, much, much better chance than I would right now.
But its probably much easier to be a fan in your world. So I guess I’m jealous of you a bit.
OK, that's not what you said
You effectively said that skill had nothing to do with Manny Ramirez’s abilities – “Skill ain’t what made him good.” You insinuate that the steroids made him good, as though Manny were just an ordinary ballplayer who became a legend because he allegedly took steroids. And that’s so damned myopic.
Where are the Hall of Fame plaques for Ryan Franklin, Michael Morse, Alex Sanchez, Henry Owens… etc, all the other guys who have been suspended? Were their ‘magic beans’ not as good?
I’m living in the rational world where I don’t jump to conclusions based on sparse evidence about Manny Ramirez’s steroid use and sparse evidence about the effect of steroid use on a player’s statistics. You should join me sometime.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I need to soften the blow here
Although I sure don’t appreciate the insinuation that I’m somehow living in some sort of fantasy.
But listen, I am not claiming that, if Manny Ramirez did indeed use performance enhancing drugs (which is still all speculation at this point), they didn’t have some sort of effect on him. Obviously there’s an extent to which PEDs work otherwise nobody would use them.
But I think you’re grossly overstating the effects. I’ll use myself as an example – I’m a horsecrap hitter. I got DHed for my last two years of high school ball. If I took PEDs it probably would have sped my bat up a tad and allowed me to hit the ball a bit farther when I made contact. But if I didn’t have good hitting skills – good mechanics, good pitch recognition, and such – it wouldn’t matter how many PEDs I took, I’d still be a horsecrap hitter.
Manny Ramirez is a great hitter because he has a pure swing and a phenomenal ability to recognize pitches out of hand and go with the pitch. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with his alleged PED use.
Now, if you’re the type that just assumes that every really good big leaguer has been juicing since Legion ball – well then I’m glad that’s a world I don’t live in. I’d hate to be that cynical and ridiculous.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
ok
I was too strident with my comment too. Obviously Manny has tons of natural talent. My point is simply this: steroids allow you to take that talent to entirely new levels. For you or me, it probably doesn’t mean that much. But for these guys at the top of the game where milliseconds and millimeters matter a lot, the impact is undeniable. I mean, everyone is now talking about GA’s batspeed slowing down. What if there was a way to fix that? There is.
In any case, no reason to get into a war. I am a cynic. I fully believe that the overwhelming majority of these guys are on the stuff. Even my own heroes. I’m actually OK with it, not because I don’t think its cheating, not because I don’t think it changes the game, but because I can either deal with it or stop watching, and I’m not going to do the latter.
I agree somewhat,
I’m glad that the league has gotten much more punitive with caught cheaters to help make players think long and hard before they go that route. I do think there’s a lot of needless sanctimony on the part of the media when it comes to dealing with the issue, however, and I don’t think it should detract from our appreciation as fans of players capable of high levels of performance with or without the juice.
To be honest, I'm not against steroids at all...
I think they should be legal—taking any advantage you can is the American way…but they are illegal, and that is why I have an issue with players taking steroids.
I also have an issue with the clownish enforcement of the rules by MLB and the vigilante mentality of the media when it comes to steroids, but that’s another matter.
Eschew Obfuscation!
+1
Isn’t the enforcement more strict NOW? I mean, it clearly wasn’t THEN.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Roids
I think the MLB testing policy, while imperfect, is better than what they had before (read: nothing).
“Vigilante mentality”… “sanctimony”… perfectly put. I’m not down with the endless moralizing from people who are in general plenty imperfect themselves.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
While I don't like the media singling some players out,
I don’t think they should get off free either. True, there are guys who are doing it and not getting caught or slaughtered in the media, but that doesn’t mean that the ones who do get caught should be pardoned because “they’re not the only ones.” The only way this will ever end is if the risk of taking roids outweighs the benefits. The more guys get caught and raked over the coals, the closer we will be to the end.
And yes, we are still in the Steroids Era.
Absolutly not
No way they should be legalized. They can be incredibly harmful to a teenager trying to bulk up for sports. The people who need it for legit medical reasons can still get it.
Let me rephrase...
For anyone of age, they should be legal—steroids do have wonderful restorative properties and can slow down the aging process if used carefully. There was an SI article about them a while ago that went into this a great deal.
Yeah, they should be legal and people shouldn’t get high and mighty for people that do test positive. Seriously.
Eschew Obfuscation!
There's a big difference
between making them legal by prescription to those only using them for their restorative use and making them fully legal so that teens can get it. Make no mistake, if they are fully legal, teens will get it whether it is legal to sell to them or not.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
They are legal now with a proper prescription? Right?
Sort of like Pot. But you shouldn’t be able to buy them in your neighborhood Safeway.
You should read...
Game of Shadows, they buy prescriptions from doctors who will sell their souls. The drugs aren’t even made by labs like Johnson & Johnson, they’re made by Eastern Bloc scientists who are looking to make money, not protect people from getting hurt. That’s like saying Meth is ok, they’re both cooked in a trailer.
Ef you baldo try Hair-Be Dere!!
no, no, no....
The real problem is that it is a health hazard and if you allow it, then basically you set up a situation where anyone who doesn’t take the drugs is at an extreme disadvantage for ever making the major leagues, much less being a good player once there. If legalized, it would take about 1 second before teams started pressuring players to take steroids. Steroids have effects on just about every organ—including your cardiovascular system, your mental status and your kidneys—hell, the behavior problems alone are enough to keep people from taking it. More or less—players would have the choice between being a professional baseball player and probably dying young or getting stuck in the minors.
+1000
I would be extremely upset with a situation where someone has to put their future health at risk in order to be competitive. Some guys simply aren’t going to be willing to do that, and while I know life isn’t always fair, no way should we create a situation where the guys who aren’t willing to do that can’t compete.
This.
More or less—players would have the choice between being a professional baseball player and probably dying young or getting stuck in the minors.
I don’t think anyone is a fan of having players jeopardize their bodies and their health for the rest of their lives. If you only play into your late 30s, early 40s, and it’s simply not worth the rest of your entire life to have a few good glory years. IMO.
Glory lasts forever....
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Well, not only are they illegal
But proven to have long term negative effects.
But yeah, mostly the illegal part. I mean, if it’s a federal offense to be dealing in them, they should certainly not be allowed in the game.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
It looks like Canseco was right again
He said teams wouldn’t sign Manny this winter because he was juicing.
The 2009 Colorado Rockies: Expect the Unexpected
Canseco
At this point Canseco could tell me the sky was red and I’d at least check to make sure.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
how wrong does THAT sound?
don’t get me wrong, I’m checking too….
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
I know, right
Everybody just thought he was crazy and bitter, but he appears to have been the only one telling the truth the whole time
The 2009 Colorado Rockies: Expect the Unexpected
He's been telling the truth
But is still crazy and bitter.
Both statements can be, and are, true.
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Mandy suspended.
And there was much rejoicing, and dancing in the streets. ::yay::
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Can we eat his minstrels now?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
ew they're all...
Los-Angeles-ey….
ew
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Haha!
With that “yay”, I was trying to figure out how to convey a Monty Pythonesque yay.
I think Mandy’s minstrels would be all those unkempt individuals with the Mandy wigs.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
I happened to have just watched that last night, so easy connection.
and good point on the mistrels. much vomiting not rejoicing. ::yarg::
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I totally beat Eric Stephen posting this on TBLA
I just don’t have publisher rights there.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
ive just been laughing and laughing
all my dodgers fans friends were laughing at me, oh how the tables have turned
if you're reading this, it means my undying support for your team will result in its failure.
Listening to The Fan in Denver right now
And the sports update just said that apparently, when rehabbing his knee this winter, Manny was prescribed something by a doctor that ended up on the banned substances list. The update guy (Mike Evans) said, “this is NOT a failed steroid test.” So, you know, something to consider.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
tell that to JC Romero
Matt Murton status: Freed
Garrett Atkins status: Not Traded
Clint Hurdle status: Still Employed by the Rockies
by Andrew Martin on May 7, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Didn't Romero appeal his suspension?
At any rate, I wasn’t bringing that up to say ’Don’t suspend Manny nooooooo" – in fact, I’d like to see the suspension last 132 games if at all possible. Just bringing it up in the sense that, if true, it doesn’t seem to indicate any sort of long term PED use on Manny’s part.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
AND Jorge Piedra, lest we forget
Jorge Piedra tried a similar tact when he got caught 4 years back, and somone who used to work for FSN-RM told me when I asked if it were true: “No. No truth at all. Total roider. You can tell with some guys.”
Medication prescribed for a "personal medical issue", per ESPN
Do you get 50 games for ADD medication?
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I was just gonna say...
…I bet its adderal or ritalin or something along those lines. And yes, those medications are considered PEDs.
Derek Lowe got MLB approval to take Adderall
but the article I read on ESPN.com from 2006 says that if he didn’t have approval it would result in a 25 game suspension (vs a 50 game suspension)…so I guess stimulants are categorized in a different way than steroids.
The funny thing
is that technically, the use of Adderall and Ritalin by adults is an off-label use. They’ve only been cleared for use in children.
Not that I can complain. I used Concerta since I was 17 but just recently switched to Strattera.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
If anyones asks, we'll be character witnesses...
“DBS may not LEGALLY be a child, but he’s still child-like!”
That's
very charitable of you. :-P
Off-label use of prescription drugs is extremely common, though. Often, a particular drug is used more for its off-label properties than what it was originally approved for.
This isn’t quite the same thing, but Strattera, for example, was originally developed as an anti-depressant, but it didn’t work. It DID, however, work for ADD, so it was later approved for that. Friend of mine is on Wellbutrin for her depression, and Wellbutrin is commonly used off-label as a stop smoking aid.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Well
they’re considered PED’s but you don’t necessarily get banned for them. You have to get clearance. Scott Eyre for example is someone who’s been playing but who also has ADHD.
I think
you have to have been diagnosed with it BEFORE entering the league.
At least, that’s how it SHOULD be.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Again, stupid and clumsy enforcement of the rules...
even if it does benefit the Rockies.
Eschew Obfuscation!
As a
baseball fan, I’m pretty bummed about this. As a Rockies fan, I might just have a smirk on my face…
We have heard the doctor excuse before
So, I’m not going to automatically believe him. Let me guess B12? Maybe if he was 80 and had Pernicious Anemia.
Let me just say
I am glad if it happened, that it happened to the Dodgers. I really get sick of them and dealing w/ Manny. The down side is now we get 24 hour coverage of steroids and how bad they are and more Manny, I just want to hear about the guys still playing and the games still going on.
I have to agree w/ Jabberwocky to a certain extent, I’m not sure illegal steroids should be ok, but I don’t understand banning things that anybody can get at GNC, like Creatine or Andro. I’ve always wondered what the problem is w/ those, everyone has access, they are legal and everyone can use those if they choose.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
S'okay.
Maybe while he’s suspended, they’ll catch him with Cocaine or something. On another note:
I have to agree w/ Jabberwocky to a certain extent, I’m not sure illegal steroids should be ok, but I don’t understand banning things that anybody can get at GNC, like Creatine or Andro. I’ve always wondered what the problem is w/ those, everyone has access, they are legal and everyone can use those if they choose.
Many of the “supplements” that you can buy at places like GNC are actually mildly toxic. The only reason they’re legal is that the industry is completely unregulated. The supplement industry got a few Congresspeople in their pockets during the mid-90s and now the FDA can’t touch the crap that goes in a bottle — so long as it’s labeled a “supplement” and not a drug.
Of the major supplements, I believe that only fish oil has been repeatedly demonstrated in clinical tests to provide a medical benefit. Even multivitamins don’t have evidence to back them up.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Well,
multivitamins don’t have any sort of health benifit. They only ensure that you are not deficient in any category of nutrient. In fact, they can be dangerous if you chronically use them and already eat a diet high in Vitamin A
True.
Iron poisoning is possible, too. But there’s not much clinical evidence that the body even absorbs vitamins outside of their natural form.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
I'm not saying they provide medical benefit
I’m just saying they work, they seem to be ok if cycled on and off, I know it worked for me also. I just think you can more easily take those supplements in a cautious way and cause less harm to the body and bottom line is they are legal, so until they are illegal they should be available for use IMO.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
FYI
Andro is banned and no longer available in GNC (though it was banned first) and the same holds true for Ephedra. Also, Creatine is not a banned substance, is legal, and the majority of players take it.
I lift
and I took Creatine for awhile…I really bloated up…and not in muscle alone…I looked like a starving african kid. (minus the flies)
I thought I was
I mean I was drinking a ton.
I also was told I needed to increase my workouts to burn more calories…and that I didn’t do (and I don’t run enough then or now)
A soon to be 37 year old power hitter who is still dominate
from the Dominican Republic no less, on ‘roids? I’m shocked! SHOCKED I TELLS YA!
Couldn’t have happened at a better time for the Rockies. (though Juan Pierre .300 career hitter, and currently hitting .355 and only 30 years old as a replacement is a nice luxury)
Now can we get Atkins on the juice?
That beats shooting him in the leg.
Nice way to clear up some playing time for Stewart and you get the added benefit of some enhanced performance before he’s caught. Why didn’t we think of this before?
1) It’s not illegal until you get caught
2) what’s the worse that can happen? He gets caught, suspended, and his career is tainted, and shortened. But from what I’ve seen of his bat speed he doesn’t have that much time left, anyways. And I’m surprised more players don’t do it at the end of their careers. Barry Bonds HAS NEVER TESTED POSITIVE…you know a player CAN get away with it with the right assistance.
3) It’s FAR easier to ask for forgiveness, then it is to ask for permission.
Maybe
get Atkins on the PEDs, then he doesn’t test positive until AFTER you trade him?
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Japan
This would have never happened if he had just signed with Hanshin
http://www.observingcasually.com/manny-ramirez-signs-with-tigers/
:)
Reviews of some great baseball sites and other cool stuff on my blog @ The Casual Observer
As a Rockies fan
I can only ask….NOW can we get 6 games against the Dodgers?
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
Asterisk
the Dodgers’ new home win record. :-D
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
More news
Will Carroll over at Baseball Prospectus is reporting:
UPDATE 3: Ramirez’s statement issued through the MLBPA indicates that Ramirez will not appeal his suspension and that he received the banned substance from a doctor. Ramirez was suspended under section 8.G.2 of the Joint Drug Agreement, which is "other." In his statement, there’s no clear statement that Ramirez ever tested positive. Combined, those two facts point to a non-testable drug, but this is not confirmed. The only other known 8.G.2 suspension was Jordan Schaefer.
What the hell was Manny taking? This is kinda getting weird.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Actually, he did. For amphetemines.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Not true
He never tested positive for anything when there was a program in place to punish offenders. I believe there are a number of positive testing results that were potentially entered into evidence against him.
"Better move your rental cars, I am about to take BP."
-Glendon Rusch
As ESPN stated
It makes sense for him not to appeal. He is almost certain to be suspended 50 games. Might as well do it in June as apposed to September.
HGH?
8.G.2 refers to section 2 of the policy, which lists the banned substances. The “Other” to which Carroll refers has to do with what merits the disciplinary action. E.g., usually a suspension follows a failed test or a drug conviction.
MLBPA citing section 8.G.2 implies this is not why Manny was suspended, so Carroll is wondering if it was a non-testable drug…such as HGH. Shafer was suspended for HGH, I believe.
HGH makes sense
You can’t test for HGH (well, you can, but MLB doesn’t have a workable test for it yet) and it is something that a doctor can prescribe.
If you read the article about Jordan Schafer in ESPN Magazine an issue ago, it talked about how he got suspended – somebody called MLB’s “rat-fink line” and said they had reason to believe Schafer was using HGH. MLB checked it out and got enough evidence to stick a ‘non-analytical positive’ on Schafer and suspend him.
I’m not sure this is a similar case, but considering this story has gone from “Manny tested positive for PED’s” to “Manny violated the drug policy” within an hour, I’m not sure what to believe at this point.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Except now there's this
"The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone," the source said.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Ewww.....
somebody was having sex with Manny???
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
I read that he already had appealed, and was denied.
Apparently, the positive test happened earlier in the week,l and just didn’t come out until today when the suspension was not overturned.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
So....
I guess it WAS a “performance enhancer”, eh? Amirite??
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
ESPN says
It was a women’s fertility drug commonly used by steroid users to restart their bodies.
The 2009 Colorado Rockies: Expect the Unexpected
Ooo
So he didn’t test positive for steroids, but rather a drug that is used to mask the effects of steroids? Nice.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I can't wait for the hecklers at a Rockies home game
they should be good with this bit of info!
These are the same core group of men that went 21 - 1 to win the NL pennant. Never, ever, ever believe that MY TEAM is out of it.
by The Lodo Magic Man on May 7, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
C'mon, guys.
Don’t jump to conclusions. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Huhwha?
How can a woman’s fertility drug help manny?
God, that is awesome.
I got the impression is would countereffect some of the signs that steroids would cause.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Sounds like it's a masking agent?
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
It was a case of Manny Having Mannyboobs
Watching the purple row from high atop the big brown monolith on California Ave
So we have one source saying "Manny used a female fertility drug"
And another saying “MANNY BEING HORNY.”
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I'm not watching ESPN, so I didn't see the report of the female fertility drug.
But it is actually possible. I’ve read that there are drugs that can be used to try and reduce the levels of other hormones, ones unusually high after the use of steroids.
I’d say it still needs more time for all of the info to come out, though.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions
That makes sense...
but do drug test detect traces of other chemicals, or have I been watching too much NCIS?
I have no idea.
I don’t know anything about how drug tests work, OR watch NCIS. :D
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Manny being Barry?
These are the same core group of men that went 21 - 1 to win the NL pennant. Never, ever, ever believe that MY TEAM is out of it.
by The Lodo Magic Man on May 7, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
HCG has been confirmed via Will Carroll's Twitter
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
HCG
HCG is a women’s fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body’s natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
HCG
Along with the described use by steroid users, above, HCG is also used by urologists as an aid to treat male infertility
Manny being infertile?
Manny having trouble being Daddy?
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
That may be the exact route Manny takes to defend his case.
It certainly could be a valid reason, but you have to admit, it is supremely suspicious that this exact drug is known to cover the hormone imbalances caused by steroid use.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Gonadotropin, really?
Somebody should make a comic called "Tulowitzki the Combat Shortstop". I'd read it.
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
That's hilarious
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
If nothing else,
I get ‘Manny Ramirez’ and ‘taking’ and ’women’s fertility drug’ in the same story. Besides all the other benefits.
Confusion, discord, and suspensions to the enemy!
so has this taken a needle to the balloon
that is the 2009 Dodgers?
These are the same core group of men that went 21 - 1 to win the NL pennant. Never, ever, ever believe that MY TEAM is out of it.
by The Lodo Magic Man on May 7, 2009 12:27 PM MDT reply actions
He can only hope
they go 0-132 from here on out.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
I hope it turns out he was on this in Boston
Somebody should make a comic called "Tulowitzki the Combat Shortstop". I'd read it.
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
I'd say it's doubtful he was on THIS in Boston.
But he may have been on the PEDs he’s trying to coverup.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
From Carroll's blog post at BP:
UPDATE 4: Give T.J. Quinn the points: He gets the scoop that the drug Ramirez was suspended for was HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin.) Simply put, it boosts testosterone.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
It BOOSTS testosterone?
Everything I have read about it says it reduces excess testosterone…
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Ah, clarification:
It boosts NATURAL testosterone, and reduces UNNATURAL testosterone.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Ahhh.
Now THAT makes plenty of sense.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
So much
for a “personal medical issue”. Boo hoo. Poor Mandy. Too much unnatural testosterone.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
Well, wait a second
If it boosts ‘natural testosterone’, then that also jives with the use of the drug as a male infertility treatment.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Female hormone?
Mandy Ramirez! Brilliant!
These are the same core group of men that went 21 - 1 to win the NL pennant. Never, ever, ever believe that MY TEAM is out of it.
by The Lodo Magic Man on May 7, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, he may actually have a medical issue.
It could go either way. but it seems to be that whether he has fertility problems, or he’s covering steroid use, he’s going to be suspended regardless. Good news for us.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
The Wiki article says....
… that it stimulates testosterone production in the body. Any testosterone (or other hormones) that are active during steroid use become overrun by natural testosterone.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Could be cancer
You never know.
Somebody should make a comic called "Tulowitzki the Combat Shortstop". I'd read it.
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
Well, if it boosts testosterone,
that might also explain why it’s described as a fertility treatment.
It could also be one of those hormones that REGULATES testosterone, meaning it can either boost OR reduce based on the current testosterone levels.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
He was taking a woman's fertility drug known to bump up your testonterone levels
Cheating. F-in. Bastard.
Plus,
he never washes his hair.
"Besides, this is freaking 2009.... WHERE THE HELL IS MY DAMNED FLYING CAR??"
As mentioned in posts above...
… the drug is used both as a cover for steroid use, and as a male fertility stimulant. There could be any of a number of things going on here.
But either way, we’re without ManRam for 50 games. Let’s take advantage.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
If this was truly for a fertility thing and not for masking roids.
any physician with some knowledge of MLB’s drug policy, should have been able to inform him of this.
Enjoy your 50 days off, cheater.
These are the same core group of men that went 21 - 1 to win the NL pennant. Never, ever, ever believe that MY TEAM is out of it.
by The Lodo Magic Man on May 7, 2009 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, this IS Manny Reputation Ramirez
I’d say it’s at least slightly possible he hid this so as not to be Mr. Infertile all over the news.
Either way, he deserves the suspension for a stupid mistake.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
He's definitely guilty of using a drug he's not supposed to be using.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Hormone, rather. Keep making that mistake.
We just don’t know why yet. It doesn’t really matter to me. I just am glad he won’t be opposing us for a while.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Not really a mistake, WM
Dictionary.com
drug: /drʌg/ verb, drugged, drug⋅ging.
–noun
1. Pharmacology. a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.
So hormones fall in there, as does just about everything.
Somebody should make a comic called "Tulowitzki the Combat Shortstop". I'd read it.
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
I generally tend to think of a drug as something that is synthetic.
But that’s good to know.
by Greg Stanwood on May 7, 2009 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
If it were’nt for the Players Union, we would be able to test evey player today. Have them pee in a cup/give a blood smaple before they can enter the dugout. Rinse and Repeat every week. Problem solved.
by cocainelips99 on May 7, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
This thread has officially entered 'STRING EM UP' mode
Which means it’s time for me to get out before I start making enemies.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
This is obviously terrible news for us Dodger fans.
Thank God we’ve built up the big division lead, otherwise this would be way worse.
This might just be the break we need, boys and girls!
Rockies respond with a big clunker against a wild starter
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on May 7, 2009 5:10 PM MDT reply actions
Check out what the baseball world is thinking
Here is a link to Examiner.com which has a bunch of links ranging from Boston to Detroit to Seattle to CRICKET!!
Some good articles and some good reads.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4150444
A little snippet from this article by Jayson Stark
I’ve read through all the prescribed uses I could find online for human chorionic gonadotropin (similar to Clomid), which ESPN.com is reporting is the drug in question. And let me tell you — I’m almost 100 percent certain that Manny wasn’t suffering from an inability to ovulate. Or polycystic ovarian syndrome. And if he was, there’s a lot more he hasn’t been telling us than what really went on in those bizarre final days in Boston.
If you read more extensively about this drug, though, you’ll learn that it IS occasionally used to address male infertility. Except if you read the small print, you’ll also learn that, according to sharedjourney.com:
“The FDA has not approved the use of Clomid in men, nor has it been found to be especially effective.”
Great. So why would a doctor be prescribing it for a guy like Manny, then?
Good question, huh?
This thread's probably dead
But just in case: I really liked this piece from the Hardball Times.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
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