Sunday Rockpile: After 10, time for a curfew on Rockies trade talks?
"We've played as bad as we can play," O'Dowd said. "Now we're playing well. We'll have to see as we play out the ebb and flow of the season. We know we have a chance to be good. We've demonstrated we may not be."
Dan O'Dowd talked to the LA Times Bill Shaikin, who notes that the Rockies still are unclear of whether they should be dealing players at the trade deadline.
The main issue is that the wildcard standings are a mess that hasn't really begun to sort itself out yet, or maybe it's just barely starting to sort itself out, but there are still eleven teams within five games of leaders San Francisco and St. Louis, and you could even include the Diamondbacks who some feel have a better claim to being able to make a comeback and get back into this than a couple of teams ahead of them. Let's take a look at those twelve teams and try and see how the Rockies really stack up:
San Francisco - ERA+ 118 (1st) OPS+ 79 (16th)
- Advantages- Already in the WC lead, strong pitching plus defense has given them the best run prevention unit in the league thus far.
- Disadvantages - They have the worst run scoring unit in the league thus far.
St. Louis ERA+ 107 (t-5th) OPS+ 96 (t-5th)
- Advantages - Solid all around team, should be a contender
- Disadvantages - Too much of the offensive load is being shouldered by Albert Pujols
NY Mets ERA+ 107 (t-5th) OPS+ 105 (2nd)
- Advantages - Also solid both offensively and defensively, might actually mean that we should look at the Phillies as the team to beat instead.
- Disadvantages - Holes in the pitching staff leave them somewhat vulnerable.
Cincinnati ERA+ 114 (t-3rd) OPS+ 85 (t-14th)
- Advantages - Strong pitching
- Disadvantages - Dusty Baker
Atlanta ERA+ 105 (7th) OPS+ 91 (11th)
- Advantages - Fairly strong pitching once again.
- Disadvantages - A weakness at the corners outside of Chipper leaves them with a pretty pathetic offense until they find an upgrade.
Chi Cubs ERA+ 114 (3rd) OPS+ 86 (13th)
- Advantages - Very strong pitching staff
- Disadvantages - Who knew the Cubs would be a lesser version of the Giants this year? I'm guessing the offense won't be this bad for long, but it's not likely to be as good as a lot of people thought it would be heading into the year.
Florida ERA+ 93 (t-13th) OPS+ 90 (12th)
- Advantages - A strong start leaves them in the conversation.
- Disadvantages - A closer inspection of the team suggests maybe they shouldn't be.
Colorado ERA+ 101 (10th) OPS+ 96 (t-5th)
- Advantages - The pitching is probably better than the ERA+ number appears, and the offense has actually been the best in the league in June so far, sad to say, but this is coinciding roughly with the benching of Garrett Atkins.
- Disadvantages - Poor defense has once again been what's been dragging that pitching number down, I'm not completely convinced that we've overcome all of our issues in this respect, although it's been looking better.
Pittsburgh ERA+ 97 (11th) OPS+ 95 (t-9th)
- Advantages - Their ability to score eleven runs in an inning off the Rockies? I'm not really sure actually, as the ERA+ and OPS+ suggest, this team seems just a little south of mediocre all around right now.
- Disadvantages - Already selling, the FO believes the current contending status is mostly a mirage (to the ire of some players and fans). Like the Rockies Gen R centered 2007 team, the Pirates this year might have surprised, but it wasn't quite enouugh talent for a lasting foundation for perennial contention.
Houston ERA+ 94 (12th) OPS+ 96 (t-5th)
- Advantages - Decent NL offense.
- Disadvantages - Pitching's not up to par. Like Pittsburgh, they seem to be mostly in sell mode right now.
San Diego ERA+ 81 (t-15th) OPS+ 95 (t-9th)
- Advantages - PETCO park is the biggest homefield advantage of any stadium, masking the issues in the pitching staff.
- Disadvantages - That pitching staff has to go on the road for half of its games.
Arizona OPS+ 85 (t-14th)
- Advantages - Pitching, particularly the rotation, Justin Upton.
- Disadvantages - Too much faith in some of the other young players has left this team without enough plan B's to cover all of the holes that have arisen in the lineup. Interesting side note, Felipe Lopez still has had as many HR's since opening day (2) as he had on opening day against the Rockies.
So the bottom line is that I think San Diego, Houston, Pittsburgh and Florida are all making strong signals of leaving the Wildcard race. Arizona and the Rockies have been giving mixed signals, but I believe both have more reason for optimism than the aforementioned four. I think the real Wildcard race looks like the folllowing ten teams (including two current division leaders) with Arizona teetering:
East:
Phillies/Mets - one of these two teams wins the division, the other's stiff competition for the WC
Braves - a darkhorse, but they need help via trade
Central:
Brewers/Cards - Same deal as with the East
Cubs - Seeming suddenly old and ill-equipped, but I wouldn't put a late season run past them
Reds - I don't believe the offense is capable this year, look for a July/August fade.
West:
San Francisco - No offense, but they've done just well enough to get this far. I don't know if they can make it all the way, but they're definitely in the running
Colorado - This 10 game win streak is still six short of where I think the team needs to be to comfortably be in the conversation, but at least it's enough to put us back on the map.
Arizona - this team needs to fall more than 10 games under .500 by the end of the month to put them safely in sale mode. They're nine under right now, I'd love to see a losing streak similar to our winning run put them in the cooler.
Other links:
Renck: Rockies pass toughness test - The Denver Post
- Renck: Rockies pass toughness test
Tulo-Barmes combo showing its brilliance - The Denver Post
- One of the big warnings we've been given with Jim Tracy as manager is that he lives in the past, specifically in his 2004 Dodger team past, we see a good indication of that here as he can't stop thinking about Alex Cora and Cesar Izturis, two light hitting good glove infielders he had on that team. He has actual MLB quality hitters and good gloves on this team, but still gets nostalgic. Go figure. Patrick Saunders also notes the Taylor Buchholz injury news. If the reliever does wind up shelved for the season, the Rockies may be less inclined to deal Huston Street.
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No curfew
Just a different kind of trade talk. Since Stewart is establishing himself at third, how about management discusses an Atkins trade that could bring back a good eighth inning guy (he’s fallen that far)? Trades should be aimed at shoring up weaknesses, but with the understanding that the returns in the trade could always be moved for useful, youthful pieces later, if necessary.
Yes, he's fallen that far and more.
Atkins bringing back anything, even salary relief, at this point might be a stretch. The Rockies are hoping somebody gets desperate to offer something, while a lot of teams are hoping more clubs fall out of contention so the trade market improves.
Plus, a good eight-inning guy
isn’t really something that’s cheap to get. On the FA market, that’s a $4-5 million/yr player.
This is our year
Let’s plug our holes and get some players. This is a good team, certainly possible to win wild card. You used OPS+, which is fine, but we are doing better than OPS+ shows, as we have scored more runs than we have given up.
Also we have played way more road games. We have a lot of other positives as well. Let them win!
That's why you had to read the actual blips, where I say that the Rockies are actually best in the league in OPS+
Since switching out Atkins for Stewart.
that's probably a bit too snarky than I intended, sorry about that.
I don’t know if it’s really our year or not, but the pitching plus offense component does suggest we’ve about as much claim as anybody right now.
"Let's plug our holes"
The problem is, the holes aren’t easy to fix. For example, it would likely be prohibitively expensive to upgrade from Barmes, Fowler and lower rotation spots, not that anyone would even want to. I suspect the front office is pretty happy with all the other spots. With all the OF’s running around, they don’t need the usual extra bat.
That pretty much leaves the bullpen, which has been doing better, but I suppose another reliable arm would help guard against a collapse back into the April-type performance. They could probably pick up a reliable arm for something the Rockies would be willing to give up.
Have to trade Atkins to pay for Matzek...
…and if the Rockies are serious about making a run this year, they should be shopping Spilly as well. Package them to Philly for Feliz and Madson. Though it’s probably not enough. Surely other GMs realize Atkins isn’t worth 8 mill/yr when he can’t even hit it off a tee outside of Coors.
Does anyone have any evidence for this?
“This” meaning draft signings dependent on dumping ML salaries…
Unless somebody kidnapped and replaced the Monforts...
…they’re not going to reach that far outside their business model to accommodate Matzek’s bonus demands without breaking even financially. It’s a great excuse to dump Atkins, which has needed to be done for a while. Nightmare (though plausible) scenario has them standing pat and not signing Matzek at all.
He’s the breath mint after Greg Reynolds crap casserole. Get it done!
It's usually separated, but if enough salary is moved it can be transferred to player acquisitions.
That was the case with the Larry Walker trade when the club signed Dexter Fowler. I’d rather signing Matzek be a priority independent of trading salary, however, and I don’t know if his demands will be so astronomical to make it impossible without a salary dump. The club has saved money heading into the season, and attendance hasn’t dropped off too severely just yet.
The Phillies would never agree to that trade though.
They don’t need either Atkins or Spilbourghs.
by Brendan Scolari on Jun 15, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
He wanted $4 million up front...
…before he knew where he was going to be drafted. You have to assume Coors Field bumps the number up a bit.
There’s no reason at all to be classy about Greg Reynolds. Evan Longoria could be playing 2B instead of Clint Barmes right now. It’s not his fault the Rockies f.o. is inept, but it’s still sickening.
There's every reason to stay classy if you want to stay on Purple Row.
If you’ve got that much of an urge to talk trash, the Denver Post and other boards might be more to your style.
How is unbiased commentary from a season ticket holder...
…talking trash?
This homerific blog is clinging to credibility as it is, so please tone the defense.
Criticizing Greg Reynolds and the Greg Reynolds pick isn't what I'm referring to.
It’s comparing him to cooked excrement. There are other ways of communicating your disgust that don’t involve 4th grade humor, I would think. Maybe not. Either way, I don’t want the casserole reference to be a frequent thing I have to look at here.
And apparently
no one follows the instructions in the box that pops up when you sign up for the site:
Practice civil discourse, and read the rules and regulations. Don’t tell us that we didn’t tell you to read them.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Really? You're trotting out "season ticket holder"?
"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill
Ambrose Bierce had
something to say once about things like that.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I've read some Bierce, but I'm not sure what you mean.
?
"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill
From The Devil's Dictionary:
Patriotism, n. In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
Playing the season-ticket holder card is sort of like that.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Clinging to credibility?
I believe we have writers submitting entries for major national publications, and even doing Pregame spots for KOA.
In response to the “homerific” comment, we are ALL Rockies fans here, so what is the issue. The remarks to “stay classy” is because we have a very strong community here. We all love the Rockies and, though we certainly don’t agree on many points, this is still a community. If you would like to be a part of it, we would love to have you.
"homerific"?
We’re Rockies fans, simple as that. We support the Colorado Rockies.
"Admirably obsessive." - Uni Watch, March 24th, 2009
NA34 | HK | RMN
Team D
It’s hard to know how much to trust small samples of UZR data on fangraphs, but it would seem that anecdotally at least, they have improved:
Stewart replaces Atkins at 3rd-e.g., last night’s catch against the fence, and not missing shoestring attempts
-Barmes replaces Stewart’s innings at 2nd
-Gonzales will likely not be worse than Smith/Spilly in LF, and could be better (those two seemed to be doing a good job, though)
-Hawpe seems better at what he can get to
A hyphen preceding and following a comment is code for strike thru
Asterisks do the same for bold
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 14, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Huh. Bummer. We're looking okay so far, but that would've been some nice bolstering.
"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill
As much as i'm enjoying
being back in the mix here, I’m still not certain we should suddenly re-calibrate into thinking that we should be a buyer instead of a seller. If anything, this recent surge is a major benefit to trade efforts, because suddenly we’re not desperate and have some negotiating leverage.
That said, I agree with DOD to the extent that we now can sit back and reasonably take a look at how good we are. Obviously we’re not going to win at this pace forever, but if we can get/stay a bit over .500 by the AS break, there might be reason to try and make a WC run. As much as I’ve been an advocate of rebuilding, if there’s a real chance to compete (unlike last year) you gotta do it.
I don't think people are saying we should be buyers.
I think it’s more that we should stand pat for now. The only piece I think we should trade in return for an area of need is Spilly. He’s not part of our future plans, and we know there are interested teams.
Buyers or Sellers
The Rockies are not and can not ever be true “Buyers”. They can not make trades to fill holes for this year, while giving up either young talent prospects or taking on bad contracts. It’s not part of the model, and just doesn’t fit. The bad contract part is imposable as the checking account is empty.
However, I don’t think the Rockies can be Sellers now either. Atkins…sure, but that’s a bench guy with a bad contract for his production, and won’t get much in return at the moment. Marquis? He fits Coors Field and the Rockies rotation, and would be needed for any run (PLUS he’s a proven winner with the most wins in the National League. Winning pitchers are hard to find, and he’s a WINNER! suck that RMN!).
The real question is Hawpe. And if the Rockies are in a playoff chase (nice to even be able to think about that) in a month, Hawpe’s present in the line up and in stability would be too valuable to let go. (even though I think an OF of Smith/Murton, Fowler, and CarGo could be just as affective as an OF of Cargo/Smith, Fowler, Hawpe). The disruption would be too great.
Atkins and Spilly….still available however.
I have no idea where to put this
but I"m going to assume we will get a write up on the Rowbot bbq round up from Saturday by some one that actually can write…..right? I mean we had lots of Purple Row “coaches” in attendance.
I'm assuming RMN was covering this
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 14, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, he does have the pictures...
though I’d be willing to write something up if he doesn’t want to.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jun 14, 2009 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions





































