Rockies Trade Candidates
It's Tuesday Morning and I'm bored at work already. I know we've already beat a lot of this to death, but let's consolidate our discussions.
So let's talk about Colorado's trade candidates:
1. SP Jason Marquis (8-4, 3.77 ERA)
Marquis is enjoying a renaissance of his career, having provided the Rockies with 1.5 Wins above Replacement (WAR), and assuming he pitches at the pace he is, he'd be just shy of 4.0 WAR by the end of the season. He's rediscovered his groundball to the tune of 56% of his batted balls being on the ground, and he's become the pitcher we always wished Josh Fogg was. Downside is, his pricetag is a bit high, but for what he could provide for a desperate team, it could be a smart move.
Suitors: Phillies, Everybody who needs starting pitching.
2. OF Ryan Spilborghs
Despite a downturn in his offensive numbers, Spilborghs' defense continues to be above average, showing most of his prowess in the corners, but displays a range in CF that many teams with an outfield NOT the size of Rhode Island would leap at. He's very inexpensive, and very clearly not a piece the Rockies need to move forward, given the promotion of Carlos Gonzalez.
Suitors: Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers
3. CL Huston Street
Despite a very shaky 2008 in Oakland and a rough first couple of weeks in Colorado, Street has settled in to be a very solid reliever, albeit prone to some bad outings. Sporting a 132 tRA+ (insinuating he's 32% better than average), solid relievers are definitely in demand. Always.
Suitors: Angels, Mets, Yankees, Rangers
4. RF Brad Hawpe
The biggest bat in the Rockies' lineup, Hawpe's glove has been a perpetual source of heartache for Rockies fans. Despite his strong arm, only the best runners will go on him anymore, and given the lack of opportunities to gun down the overambitious runner, he's definitely lost some effectiveness in his cannon. Hawpe is signed affordably through '10 with a club option on '11 that may be voided if he's traded. Probably most suited to 1B anymore, Hawpe is blocked here in Colorado by Helton, and again, with Carlos Gonzalez taking starting time with a far superior glove, Hawpe may be a good trade chip to bring young players and help reinforce Colorado's system.
Suitors: Potentially Tampa, Atlanta, Boston
5. 3B/1B Garrett Atkins
Atkins has yet to find his power and stroke of yesteryear, or yesteryear before that...or before that... but he may be a perfect "change of scenery" guy, as his upside is still a decent one. Relegated to bench duty by the Rockies in favor of bench duty, Atkins could provide some RH pop for a needy team.
Suitors: Cardinals, Sky Sox
We're not actively selling right now, I know, but if we fall apart in the next 6 weeks, this could become a reality sooner than later.
Thread your comments under each player's comment thread...yeah that made sense. Again - Bored, let's chat it up some more!
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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Jason Marquis
It’s arguable that we could get similar production out of one of our own farmhands – SIMILAR, not as “good”, but if we start selling, it makes sense.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
Name one
Who comes up and starts at even a major league level? You have Jason Hirsh. Then you have Franklin Morales, who according to reports had a fast ball topping out at only 88 mph his last rehab start (which got him assigned to AAA). Hynick would actually get my first call if a pitcher went down today, based on numbers (though i don’t know much about him or his stuff). Smith maybe if he gets healthy.
In fact the lack of a major league ready starting pitcher, makes the Ian Snell trade more a plausible idea. I think the Rockies will be buyers not sellers for Starting Pitching.
Unless of course by the end of July they fall back to earth, then all bets are off, and Marquis should bring back a nice return. Every team needs another starter. Marquis would be an upgrade to any playoff team’s staff. A bidding war could actually get back more then Marquis is worth.
Then the Rockies should make a play to resign him. Marquis is the model pitcher in my opinion for Coors Field.
Marquis needs to stay!
Agreed. I don’t want to see Marquis go, he’s been great for the Rockies this year.
Are any of our AAA Pitchers MLB ready?
If not, I would like to keep Marquis around for a while. As redhawk said, Hirsh and Morales are the closest things we have right now, and the only way I would want them pitching for the rockies is if we got really bad. Like Nationals bad.
I would be happiest if we could keep Marquis around until next year’s trade deadline, giving Hynick or Friedrich or Chacin time to mature a little bit, though I’m pretty sure that won’t happen.
I don’t see a best case scenario or even a remotely good scenario if we trade Marquis before the end of the year. I really don’t.
Ryan Spilborghs
With Matt Murton waiting in the wings in the Springs, Spills is expendable. Who gets him?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
Spilborghs is the only Rockie I would consider trading right now.
Well, there’s Atkins, but nobody’s gonna be taking that until they get REALLY desperate,
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 16, 2009 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Me too.
In fact, I’d prefer we trade him, provided the right offer comes along. I mean, I love Spilly, don’t get me wrong. But he’s not in our future plans, and between the Rockies and AAA we have too many MLB-quality outfielders. Might as well trade one of them for something useful.
What is Spilly's contract status?
How much longer before he’s a free agent?
by Rockie4Ever on Jun 16, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
He's not even arb-eligible...
with 2.072 years of service time, so he’s got four more years until free agency (though arbitration is not cheap these days).
Eschew Obfuscation!
The issue isn't so much cost
As lack of playing time for a 30 year old dude. The only reason to keep him is that he plays a passably good CF, and we have 2 guys who are excellent defensive CFs right now.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 17, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Huston Street
Manny Corpas has solid peripherals despite being prone to the big inning, but with guys like Casey Weathers and eventually Rex Brothers being impact pitchers in the pen, do the Rockies really need to keep paying a closer?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
yes
Manny isn’t the same as he once was. Weathers is hurt, and who knows what level he will be when he comes back. Bucky…well, sniff, also is gone for a least another year. All of the Rex Brothers are several years away, and who knows if any of them will pan out. I don’t like the idea of trading Street even if the Rockies fall out of contention. The pen is an area, that is thin. It’s good, but right now it’s thin. I don’t want to make it thinner. Plus Street is under contract for 2010.
In fact when the Rockies make deals, minor league power arms that could be bull pen guys and eventual closers to me is an area the Rockies should add to.
I want to keep Street unless we get one heck of an offer at the deadline.
And, of course, we’ve fallen out of contention.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 16, 2009 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
A closer
makes the bullpen an ordered entity.
Why, once the team gets a closer do the fans always want to trade rhem away?
Do we think its wise to open up another weakness that will need to be filled?
by rockieprogress on Jun 17, 2009 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I think you keep this guy
I wouldn’t trade him this year. Weathers is a huge question mark and Corpas is much better suited to the 8th inning. Keep him and sign him, this team can be a contender for a playoff spot next year and I don’t want an unorganized bullpen. Daley,Corpas Street 7th,8th and 9th.
I like Street
But the issue is that “closers” are overrated. Saves are kind of overblown in terms of a closer’s worth.
The concept is that a guy of Street’s abilities are very valuable, but all GMs seem to think is SAVES OMG
You might have a proven 35 save guy in your 9th inning, but you might have a better pitcher being used for the 7th or 8th. You can take any decent reliever and put him in the 9th with 2 or 3 run leads and he’ll convert 90% of the saves, thereby boosting his value, making him a good trade candidate, while you’re still keeping your best guy. You can “create” closers this way and get good value out of them.
Closers are improperly used anyhow. Yes, the 9th inning is the highest leverage inning, but if the lead is given up in the 8th, what’s the point? If the 8th inning features the opposition’s 2, 3, and 4 batters, and after that, they kind of don’t have any major threats, why would you save your best pitcher to pitch against worse batters in the 9th when you need him more in the 8th?
The “Bullpen Ace” is more important than the “Closer” IMO.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 18, 2009 8:28 AM MDT up reply actions
In this case yeah
So the situation changes. I was more responding to
Why, once the team gets a closer do the fans always want to trade rhem away?
I almost wish we had Street setting up and Daley closing – not that I think Daley is OMG CLOSR but like I said above, we shuffle street around to take on the best of the opposition.
If Speier was a bit better, I’d say close with him. Not that I really think he’s the best guy, but because he has the closer’s mentality from his closing role in the Springs.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 18, 2009 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes
RMN is making a case for using the classically thought of “closer” in different innings, like the 7th or the 8th when there may be runners on, and a heart of the order up.
However, the problem with this is, Closers and bullpen people get paid right now based on “Saves” which means, having to finish the game. When bull pen guys get paid based on things like inherited runners scoring, or holds, etc, then there may a shift in thinking as well. It will take some one crazy like La Rusa to change the current status.
I think so.
But I also agree with RMN to some degree. If the heart of the other team’s lineup is up in the 8th, why not use the bullpen ace then instead of the ninth?
And I agree about the saves category. 3 outs against a random part of the order doesn’t seem to be much of an achievement.
And while we’re on the subject, when did “Holds” become a stat? When some hair product decided to sponsor it? And exactly what is a hold anyway?
And another thing while I’m at it. Did Corpas get a blown save and a win the other night in the same game? That seems kind of strange.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I think
a hold is pretty much a save, but the game isn’t over yet. Holding the small lead. And I don’t remember it not being a stat, but I didn’t pay attention to those details til the turn of the miilennium
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 18, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, Corpas got the BS,W
further lending to my “Pitching Wins are Stupid” campaign
Holds were established a few years back just to award a non-save-situation “Save” to a setup man.
They’re really, really dumb, tell you nothing at all about how good a pitcher actually is, aren’t always awarded by scorekeepers, and basically are just there so GMs and Scouts who get all hot over Saves can overpay setup men.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 18, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Just to award a non-save "Save" to a setup man seems kind of like T-Ball.
Everybody gets a snow cone and a trophy.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Brad Hawpe
It’s arguable that Hawpe’s Bat + Fielding = Gonzalez’s Bat + Fielding. But Cargon hasn’t yet showed he can really hit at a MLB level. Who does the organization move forward with?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
Back to the Dinger avatar?
hmm
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 16, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree.
Hawpe is my favorite Rockie, but he’s not going to have another year like this. Sell him high in the off season, or at the deadline if we’ve fallen off the radar.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 16, 2009 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Lost effectiveness?
It seems to me that you are saying (unless I am misinterpreting) that Hawpe’s arm is less effective because most runners will not test him, preventing him from throwing out runners. Doesn’t the fact that runners won’t try to advance when Hawpe has the ball make him effective? He may not get the outs, but getting runners to hold still seems like a big plus to me.
by RockiescastScott on Jun 16, 2009 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
it's kind of a circular reasoning
His OF assists drop, but because he’s not gunning as many guys down, he’s losing accuracy, so more and more guys are starting to run on him again.
Thing is, a strong arm isn’t going to help his effectiveness in the field as much as we’d like to think.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 16, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Garrett Atkins
Who would really take this guy?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
Pretty much just as you said: Cardinals
The Cardinals, as we saw, need an impact power bat. Even if it’s a potential impact power bat. 3B is a weak spot for them due to several injuries. I don’t see anyone else taking a chance.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
lets go another step
Atkins and Holliday are BFF’s. Holliday is also rumored with the Cardinals in trade talks, and is one of the teams I understand he wouldn’t mind signing with long term.
I think Atkins has a lot more value than
people here give him. However, teams will leverage his year so far against the Rockies and force them to deal Atkins at like 30 cents on the dollar… Basically what I’m saying is I agree with the whole “change of scenery” thing.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
The Rays need
a RF and Closer but I doubt that they would give up much right now for either. They also should have never given up Edwin Jackson (for RF Matt Joyce) and they should have traded Kazmir.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
http://www.geocities.com/by31lengths/Randompage2.html
At the time
Jackson looked incredibly overrated and Joyce would plug an immediate hole.
As it stands, Joyce has hit AAA very well this season and was a shade above average in his short stint in the majors.
Jackson really took off though, that was a surprise.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 16, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
It was not a surprise to the Rays' coaching staff.
No one on the staff thought that Ed should have been traded .
I do like Joyce and hope he figures MLB pitching soon.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
http://www.geocities.com/by31lengths/Randompage2.html
Looked overrated to you, maybe...
I was looking him as somebody the Rockies should go after in the offseason.
I'm not the only one who thought he was overrated
And it was a great trade at the time for both sides.
Who would we have had to move for him though?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 16, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Seth Smith.
He would be the Matt Joyce equivalent. Would it have been worth it? I think so, but it wouldn’t have been an easy call.
Totally agree, I kept thinking Jackson would be an interesting guy to go after
and every time I saw him pitch his stuff was off the charts. I’m not totally surprised at his success.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Maybe the FO but not the coaches.
A few of the starting pitchers were surprised (and ticked) as well.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
Jackie Robinson
http://www.geocities.com/by31lengths/Randompage2.html
Well here's the thing
He’d posted consecutive ~5 FIP seasons, with an unimpressive K9 and a very average K:BB, and a very average HR9. His fastball was up around 94ish, which is good of course, but nothing pointed toward “This guy is gonna be a sub-3 ERA kind of guy”
he had those 16 glorious wins, and we figured that a good team in the 08 rays basically boosted him to that win total (and I’m gagging as I type this) and that they’d make a sucker of a team. Well, Detroit gave up Joyce, who wasn’t OMG PROSPECT but just a solid dude, and Tampa gave up Jackson, an average pitcher with OK upside, and we figure that Tampa dealt from strength to address a weakness.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 16, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Jackson
Just added a curveball this year, giving him an extra swing-and-miss pitch and keeping hitters off his fastball. He’s not the same pitcher he was in his developmental stages, just surviving on the big fastball.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Curious about opinions as to who could go from Colo Springs?
When discussing trades concerning the Rox, it always sems the discussion centers on 1 or more of our big league players for prospects but I curious who might we be willing to give up at AAA? I have to assume Murton is expendable (unfortunately) along with a few others who’ll be snagged the second they are waivered, but what about the younger up-and-commers who haven’t really had a shot at the show. Would we be ready to part with Frey, Hererra, Reynolds? I’m doubting EY Jr would even be considered.
I can't see trading Reynolds
It’s too early to give up on the highest pick in franchise history, especially while injured. Herrera and Frey are expendable but really aren’t more than replacement players at best. They wouldn’t net much, if anything. Murton is a legit candidate though
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 16, 2009 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Herrera's name popped up in the Snell rumors
I would think that Hirsh might be a legit candidate as well. He’s almost out of options, and if he’s not in the Rockies plans, they’ll need to move him.
Greg Smith or Reynolds if they weren’t hurt would also be candidates in the right trade if they weren’t hurt.
I'd hope we keep EYJ, Murton, Reynolds
and kind of Hirsh, but I wouldn’t cry to see him moved.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 17, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions
The Rockies can't keep everyone
to get players back the Rox will have to give some one up. I love Murton, but right now, he’s just depth at a deep position.
Reynolds and Hirsh don’t seem to be on the Rockies radar/plans.
EY2 I want in the bigs, but if the powers that be see him as not a complete player or as a major league bench guy at best, then he’s depth too.
WHO’S UNTOUCHABLE IN THE MINORS?: Chacin, Fredrick, Gomez. Any other pitchers?
Matz- oh hangon
Well, when we move Spilborghs, Murton can take his place. I like Murton.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 17, 2009 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
exactly
Murton is the player that allows Spilly to be traded.
by rockieprogress on Jun 17, 2009 9:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Didn't know Herrera has been rumored to be on the trading block....
…..but I think Hirshey is gonna have to show some durability & some of that ’07 magic to improve his stock.
I don't think it's so much Herrera is on the block
But he doesn’t figure to be MLB caliber material, so he’s basically depth that could turn into something more valuable.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 17, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions
RMN could you do a aquisition candidate post?
I would like to take the optimist side of things and think the rockies will be buyers come trade deadline. who are targets we could be looking at?
i know we wont go after a flashy name but ive seen snell rumored (although im not a big fan of his) and we will probably want a solid bullpen arm. what other pitchers could be out there on the market?
I'll look into it
I’ll try and put up a fanpost in the next few days
Good thinking!
now go read my Ubaldo article!!!
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 17, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
How can you talk about who to trade until you know if we're going to be buyers or sellers?
If we’re in the thick of at least the wild card conversation, we’re going to need some of those guys.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
well..yeah
If the team is out of contention, then a lot of names are available.
If the Rockies are still in contention, then it’s more of a “what pieces” are available that would have value, but still expendable to bring back players of need.
Totally different conversations really. But still valid trade talks.
It’s Tuesday Morning and I’m bored at work already.
that’s how
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: Badass
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 18, 2009 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions
OK...it's 16 days after this was originally posted..
…so how has the picture changed now that we’re playing good ball but have down off the insane tear of early June?
#1: The need for bullpen relief is now glaringly obvious
Baker is gone.
Atkins’s salary appears to be a hindrance to any serious trade talks.
Spilly & Murton – still on the block but would probably have to package with a prospect to get a valued reliver.
Reynolds – work in progress
Hirsch – ? still in limbo
Rox status as buyers/sellers, contenders/also-rans also cloudy.
I think if the contender status becomes tenable over the next month, then you have to face up to it that painful sacrafices will have to be made. If the Rox are in contention, there are two options: make a run at it or fold. Folding is easy: do nothing except free up some salary.
Make a run: well that’s the tough call. Beefing up the pen is priority numero uno. Part with Reynolds or Chacin for a top 8th inning guy? Let the bow-shots begin.
I'm really liking the Peralta/Daley duo for use in the 8th until Corpas' near future status is known.
That being said, I’d like to see some shoring up so we didn’t have to rely on Embree and Rincon.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
Anymore word about LaTroy Hawkins?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine

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