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Around SBN: Heating Up: Miami Evens Series; LeBron, Wade Take Charge

Wednesday Rockpile: Management discussing Carlos Gonzalez

Rockies remain stuck in fog, fall again - The Denver Post

"This was a tough game to lose, obviously," said Jim Tracy, who has lost three straight after winning his first two games as interim manager. "With the way things are going for us offensively, we have absolutely no room for error whatsoever."

Carlos Gonzalez a hot topic - The Denver Post

"He's [Carlos Gonzalez] knocking on the door, for sure," general manager Dan O'Dowd said. "We are having a lot of discussions about that right now."

When do the discussions end and CarGo makes it back to the bigs? And who loses out?

Barmes staying loose in new lineup spot | ColoradoRockies.com: News
Clint Barmes likes batting second in the lineup, despite yesterday's showing.

Saunders: Hurdle's success — different - The Denver Post
Patrick Saunders expounds on his view of Clint Hurdle: The former manager is a great guy, a winner, but just not a winner on the diamond.

Welcome to the Majors, Daniel Schlereth | FanGraphs Baseball
R.J. Anderson takes a look at how the D'Backs 2008 first round pick fared in his major league debut.

2009 NL All-Star Ballot | FanGraphs Baseball
Dave Cameron offers his All-Star lineup for the NL and has Ubaldo Jimenez as the Rockies' lone representative.

 

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these conversations had better move relatively quickly

the lack of news is getting old already

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 10:13 AM MDT reply actions  

not quite like the anticipation of firing a manager is it?

I’m starting to look forward to the trading deadline and what (if any) changes dealing Dan can come up with.

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton

by pedalpusher on Jun 3, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

DOD's time to shine

I think for Deal’n Dan to be worth keeping around he needs to 1) have one hell of a draft next week – and sign the majority of them and 2) make some quality trades by the deadline.

I don’t see him going bye-bye before July 31.

TGFPR!!

by jlot10 on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

So does that mean moving Hawpe?

Sending Murton down?

This glut of corner outfielders isn’t very interesting with a team playing poorly.

Listen, this signature line is a big part of who I am.

by frightened inmate #2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hamilton out in TEX

Maybe some OF interest there. Also, looks like they could use another SP.

TGFPR!!

by jlot10 on Jun 3, 2009 10:23 AM MDT reply actions  

We could used another SP as well

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton

by pedalpusher on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

surprisingly

our starting pitchers have all been above average (by tRA) with the exception of Aaron Cook.

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Why would anyone have Ubaldo Jimenez as the Rockies' lone representative?

I know that all of the sabertards don’t value wins for pitchers, but does anyone honestly think that a pitcher with a 3-6 record is deserviing of an all-star spot?

Oh, and Brad Hawpe sends his regards.

"What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan

by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM MDT reply actions  

Schlereth

I had not seen that Schlereth had been called up… but Detroit’s Luke French beat him to the majors this year in the race to see who would be the first guy that I played against in high school to make the Show. (Or the first guy from the Colorado high school class of 2004, whichever way you want to look at it.)

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM MDT reply actions  

Go Colorado HS class of 2004!!

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

CarGo

If my numbers are correct (I’d say there’s a 50/50 shot), he is leading all players at any level, minors and the bigs, in RBI. And if someone else has already posted that, I apologize, but I’m lazy and don’t feel like going to previous threads to check. Sounds like a guy that could provide a little spark for a team that is sorely lacking one. If he gets the nod and Iannetta comes back from the DL and hits the way we know he is capable of, we could start to see some cheap tacos (with the purchase of a beverage) a little more often. It doesn’t solve all of the teams problems, but you’ve got to start somewhere.

by RockiescastScott on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM MDT reply actions  

yep

he’s also 3rd in wOBA in the PCL

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for confirming

As you are well aware, my laziness often trumps the need to do proper research. Which is exactly why we need to have you back on Rockiescast soon.

by RockiescastScott on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

haha

check fangraphs as well, because they have Major and Minor league leaders (obv with less analytical depth to the minor leaguers)

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

That would have been much easier

than checking the RBI leader of each MiLB league individually. The sad thing is, I should have known to check fangraphs first. Maybe my subconscious was just trying to make me spend less time on work and more on baseball. What’s important is that we came to the same conclusion. Carlos Gonzalez is a great minor league slugger that is hopefully ready to take on a new role as Major League Beast. We sure could use it.

by RockiescastScott on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM MDT reply actions  

My prediction

CarGo gets called up, gets significant playing time, and within two weeks has more HR than Holliday, and this goes unnoticed by DP commenters.

Listen, this signature line is a big part of who I am.

by frightened inmate #2 on Jun 3, 2009 11:24 AM MDT reply actions  

Haha...probably won't happen

but if it did, that last part would be completely accurate. There are no Rockies conversations on talk radio here that don’t still completely bash the FO for that trade.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Conversations

I hope those conversations are where to trade Brad Hawpe for pitching or middle infield prospects, and whether Carlos Gonzales will get the bulk of playing time in RF or all of the playing time. The outfield should be Spilborgh/Smith/Murton, LF; Fowler, CF; CarGo, RF.

It pains me to say that the time to move Hawpe has come, but he is the player of greatest trade value on the roster. He will be 30 this year, already has limited range in the OF (think about the bloop single that tied the game in the 9th last night), and will only be more expensive over the next few years. There was likely an opportunity to move Hawpe last winter, and now it will take a major surge in June for him to regain any trade value. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake with Hawpe.

by deacs on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM MDT reply actions  

Mid IF prospects

To me, we have some solid ones already with Young, Nelson, Gomez, and maybe you ca throw in Mayora. Of those, only Gomez really knocks your socks off, but I’m still more worried about corner IF

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think you meant

Atkins will need a major surge.

Um, why if the Rockies have a major offensive problem right now do you feel they should consider trading one of the bats that IS hitting?

Why not put CarGo in LF instead of the journymen they are trying to fill the position with…

by rockieprogress on Jun 3, 2009 12:06 PM MDT reply actions  

Journeymen?

Spilborghs and Smith aren’t journeymen – they were drafted and brought up here. And both are more than capable MLB starters. Hawpe is playing at an unsustainable level now, and he could seriously bring back a lot in a trade. He’ll probably need to be traded eventually, and his value won’t gtet higher

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think he means by journeymen

is that they’re all bumping around from position to position (which was absolutely true until five days ago)

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmm...not journeymen means to me

Plus, Hawpe and Fowler have been fairly entrenched in their positions

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

journeyman means like sal fasano

or Kenny Lofton or Royce Clayton

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's what I figured

I suppose Murton could reach that definition soon enough

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still think he could stick around here for awhile

If we make the smart moves

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Hurt
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sure

Who’s behind him on the depth chart for RH OF? Matt Miller?

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

journeyman

Good enough to make a living at something, but not good enough to excel up to the upper levels of the profession.

Neither Spilly, nor Smith, will ever be more than a journeyman OF that makes a living but doesn’t get a good contract. We tend to over-rate them based on following the team, but unless another team reaches on either one of them, they WON’T get a multi-year multi-Million dollar contract (multi-million means $3-4M per). Neither one of them is anything but a 4th OF on most teams. Murton=same thing.
They each could bounce around to different teams, and in different positions on those teams, but they’re nothing more than Jay Payton…

by rockieprogress on Jun 3, 2009 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

okay, both of them are going to wind up with good contracts

maybe not quite Spilly, because of his age, but for sure Seth, even if it’s not with this team.

That’s quite an interesting defenition of journeyman…

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's way too early to make that call on Smith

if he got regular playing time, he could very well prove you wrong.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Lofton lumped in with Clayton and Fasano?

That’s how people think of him?

Sheesh. Dex hopes he has Lofton’s career.

by FooMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Only for his migrating career

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

yeah

Lofton as a journeyman, by any definition, is laughable. the guy was an elite player for a long time.

by Teekalong on Jun 3, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

I just meant because

No trade deadline is complete without Kenny Lofton being traded

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

and thats the way it's got to work

as a mid market team. The Rockies have to trade expensive players that have replacements when they are at their peak of value….which is when they are leading the team in hitting say like Hawpe.

Will it hurt the Rockies chances of making the playoffs? Hell no. zero % minus 10% is still zero %. Will it help the Rockies in 2010? I sure hope so depending on what is brought back.

AND Hawpe is the one to trade. The OF of Hawpe, Fowler, Smith and Gonzalez is WAY too crowded. Unless the play with a rover OF…which couldn’t hurt as far as I’m concerned.

by Redhawk on Jun 3, 2009 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

(I thought this as well)

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Daniel Schlereth is a really cool guy.

He’s got a blog on MLBlogs.com, and he talks to the people that leave him comments, and all that other stuff that a lot of players on there don’t do. Plus, he’s from Colorado, which is very cool, also.

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 12:19 PM MDT reply actions  

And he's son of stink

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rockies ST

to Scottsdale?

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Jun 3, 2009 1:02 PM MDT reply actions  

ok, not quite getting it yet.

would there be two separate fields, or would we be sharing with the Dbacks? I know either is cool, just curious…

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's so obvious....

and nobody is suggesting it here. Send Dexter Fowler to AAA, call up CarGo today, and put him in CF until Hawpe is traded next month. Tell Dex he will come back if he does well in the Springs once a trade is made. After trading Hawpe, recall Fowler and put him in CF, moving CarGo to RF.

Dex needs a bit more seasoning, and 6 to 8 weeks in AAA could do him some good. Nothing left for CarGo to prove or learn. Bring him up right now, and this is how you do it.

by GoRoxGo on Jun 3, 2009 1:15 PM MDT reply actions  

I think the only way Dex is going to improve is by seeing some real ML pitching

all the stuff is there, he just needs to figure it out.

Why can’t we just have a surplus of pitching instead, like we thought we did before ST?

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

The uppercut swing from the left side....

appears all screwed up to me. Hard to make consistent contact when Dex is bringing his bat through the hitting zone at a 45-degree angle. It’s not his natural side, and he needs to be trying a new more level swing style in minor league games for a while. Meanwhile, CarGo takes his place. This is just temporary, and I think Dex would respond well to this additional seasoning.

by GoRoxGo on Jun 3, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I really do agree with this

I’m not gonna fret either way, but some of dex’s switch-hitter splits do need some fine tuning.

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree on the uppercut swing

He needs to get his mechanics sorted out, similar to Tulo and Stewie, both of whom are clearly struggling with their swings, I’d include Atkins in this too, but I’m beginning to view him as a lost cause unfortunately with his age and skillset

by djmbluemoon on Jun 3, 2009 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to think the same about Dex

I love his talent, but his left handed swing isn’t there, and especially against major league pitching. The biggest thing I’ve seen is he can’t handle breaking pitches coming in to him…but he’s getting to where he fights those off……it’s the actual hitting from the left he needs work on.

And I"m thinking against AAA pitching.

He could room with Stewart and Tulo

by Redhawk on Jun 3, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Surplus of pitching in ST

Impossible. I thought the same last year. I’ve learned never to think you have enough

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 3, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

6 to 8 weeks

If it takes that long to clear out the log jam – we won’t get squat. Dealing Hawpe and/or Spilly needs to be done in the next couple of weeks if we are going to max his value.

Not sure having him voted the team All-Star is good for the team in the long-run. It sucks to say that – but it is reallity.

TGFPR!!

by jlot10 on Jun 3, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Why would the return be higher now than closer to the trading deadline?

I don’t see that at all. Not all teams are going to be looking to make a trade right now. Demand should go up if we wait, and higher demand means higher return. Not to say that there might not be a good trade out there right now, but I don’t see how the value is going to go down. Unless you think performance is going to start decreasing.

by holly96 on Jun 3, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

we're not going to deal Spilly

and not just because he is the most amazing person ever in the history of the entire world.

His stats aren’t going to turn any club on. After his bat exploding as a fourth outfielder the past couple of seasons, they gave him a shot as our everyday guy. He hasn’t really stepped up to the plate (excuse the pun) and proven that he can do that. Plus, he’s not that young any more, turning 30 on September 5, so it’s not like anyone would sign a huge deal.

Also, since everyone is big on “character” and such in this club, you have to point out that Spilly is kind of a team leader. He keeps the mood in the clubhouse light, which I think is part of why they keep him on the roster.

There’s still a possibility, but honestly, how good of a guy would we get in return anyway?

by Rockie4Ever on Jun 3, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree

but one thing to consider is the fact that he can play CF well as well as the corners will boost his value, even with his offensive stats. Don’t tell me the Twins wouldn’t be better off with Carlos Gomez than Ryan Spilborghs.

Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass

by Andrew Martin on Jun 3, 2009 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Here's where I stand on the character issue...

We’re the worst team in the majors right now. If you’re the leader of the worst team in the majors, that’s nice, but you’re still the leader of the worst team in the majors right now. Honestly, if someone wants him and the package is decent, give it a whirl.

You know you want to check out Matt's Korea blog: http://koreamatt.wordpress.com

by MattTheRock on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Top 2011 prospect

Bryce Harper aiming to enter 2010 draft?

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Jun 3, 2009 1:26 PM MDT reply actions  

Great - But...

Doesn’t that mean we will have to suck more than the Nats??

TGFPR!!

by jlot10 on Jun 3, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah. . . .

Pipe dream, I guess.

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Jun 3, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

OH come on

there is a LOT of suck in this team….and we haven’t even started the fire sale yet

by Redhawk on Jun 3, 2009 4:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Anyone have thoughts on our possible picks in the draft?

I’ve seen a mock draft w/ us taking Kyle Gibson w/ our 1st pick and then Jenkins or Skaggs w/ our 2nd pick. I actually really like the Jenkins pick from what I saw on the video and read about him. He has a big body, I’m hoping for a Broxton type if he doesn’t stay as a starter, but he seems to have the stuff to stay a starter too. I also think Gibson seems like a low ceiling starter, but maybe I’m reading too much into it. Does he have top of the rotation stuff?

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Jun 3, 2009 4:21 PM MDT reply actions  

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