Colorado Rockies lose fourth straight game: Astros 6, Rockies 4
by Russ Oates on Jun 3, 2009 9:08 PM MDT
in Rockies Game Wraps
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How the game went: Jason Marquis allowed three runs in the first inning, but settled down after that. The Rockies didn't do much offensively until the fifth inning when Ian Stewart launched a three-run home run to tie the game at three. Todd Helton put the Rockies ahead 4-3 on a sac fly in the sixth inning. To start the bottom of the seventh, Hunter Pence launched a homer to tie the game at four. The Astros took the lead later that inning when a double play turned into a not double play on a Joel Peralta fielding error (at first it was charged to Clint Barmes, but it was clearly a failed catch on Peralta's end). Pence added an insurance run in the bottom of the eight with an RBI single.
Rockies offensive star of the night: Ian Stewart who went 2-for-4 with a three-run homer. Ian Stewart has 22 hits this season, eight via the long ball. But we know the real star of the night was Hunter Pence with his 4-for-5, 2 R, 1 HR, 3 RBI night.
Rockies pitching: Marquis allowed four runs on ten hits and four walks, Manny got charge with a run, and Peralta had that error that put the Astros ahead.
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I think this game..
Cements Jason Marquis as the Rockies All-Star representative. I’m just sayin’.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
At this point
I don’t give a flying F about the all star game. It’s about as far from my mind as possible.
Whoever our guy is
everyone will be pointing at him as the “mandatory representative” and he’ll probably relax comfortably on the bench all night.
FWIW, I hope its Todd, just for a last hurrah sort of thing.
Agree, not sure Todd totally deserves it
but as you said no one really does, and Todd deserves a lot more credit for what he’s done for the Rox then he gets.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
exactly
since nobody “deserves” it, other factors should be considered and hard to make a case for anyone other than Helton. Hawpe maybe, that’s it, and a major stretch.
That comment is completely out of line sir...
Brad Hawpe should be a starter in the ASG. Here is Brad Hawpe’s NL
rankings by position:
.353 Avg – 1st
1.052 OPS – 2nd
.615 Slg – 2nd
40 RBIs – 3rd
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
fair enough
hawpe deserves it, I hadn’t actually looked at his numbers closely enought to be sure.
Best traditional AS game candidate
Hawpe is the best all star candidate by traditional standards (triple crown stats), though Marquis has half of it (wins but not the ERA). As to who deserves to go…I guess that depends on how much faith one places in various advanced stats. Hawpe gets knocked down by fielding stats such that it becomes more of an open question between him and probably Jimenez. (At least, I think that’s what was behind David Cameron’s selection of Ubaldo).
Marquis has not pitched to All Star quality in any way, shape or form.
His importance has been to our team only. Our rep will be Hawpe.,
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't stop at firing Hurdle
The shakeup needs to continue. trade Hawpe and Spilly and Atkins to free up cash and get some people who deserve playing time the chance (aka Carlos and Seth). Stewie did good, lets see if maybe he can settle down and get into a rhythm. Worst thing that can happen is for him to be sitting tomorrow.
Agree and possibly Marquis, if the offer is right
also agree about Stew, he even played a decent 2B tonight
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
So do you let the lame duck GM fire sale the team?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Guess I should have said "do you trust the lame duck GM to fire sale the team?"
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Dear god no.
What a terrible situation. We need to make moves, but obviously we need to make “good” moves and don’t have the man for the job.
That depends on what he's being said behind closed doors
if he still feels secure in his job and feels he will possibly receive another year on his contract then yes I’m ok w/ it. If he knows he’s gone soon, then no I don’t.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Does Atkins = Cirillo II?
Remember Jeff Cirillo? A career .300 hitter, he was still going strong in his 2nd year with us but showed some signs of offensive decline (his road #‘s were nothing like they were with the Brewers). We trade him to Seattle, and he totally collapses, loses his starting job,and never becomes a starter again. Yes, it was Seattle, a tough place to hit with a tough manager, but Cirillo clearly lost his hitting skills completely all of a sudden, in his early 30’s.
Now, we seem to be seeing the exact same thing with Garrett Atkins. He was showing some signs of decline the past couple years, especially last year. Now, he has fallen off the cliff. He should lose his starting job to Stewart right now. They are both at .188, but Ian has more power and defense, with obviously more upside.
Is Atkins the second coming of Jeff Cirillo? I’m afraid it might be so.
Yeah we did, but we waited a little too long to pull the trigger and that leaves us w/ nothing for him
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
It's just amazing to me how far GA has fallen. As you said, off the cliff.
Now I’m assuming there are knowledgeable baseball men running the Rockies, but Holy Moly, can’t they see this? Can’t they judge his skills or deterioration and make some decisions.
I have always supported Garrett in the past but I’ve lost all confidence that he can return to any sembelance of a major league hitter.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I'm sure they see it
But they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they sit him, he’ll never build any potential value, and he’s worthless. If they start him, he sucks, looks terrible, and he’s worthless.
Might as well try the option that could potentially involve him breaking out.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
by Andrew Martin on Jun 4, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
I feel like....
….I’m rooting for the Washington Generals.
I’m just waiting for Meadowlark Lemon to pull Spilly’s pants down and douse Helton with a bucket of water.
My favorite Rockie? Why, Ty Van Burkleo, of course!
+1
The problem is that I think they’ve already pulled the pants down.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
The worst part is
Atkins is completely un-tradeable. His value has zeroed out.
Maybe the Cubs will give us that Gatorade dispenser, I would take that at this point.
you can't just dump him now
You gotta hope he gets hot, rips off a few good weeks and some contending team decides to take a shot at him by offering real value — not the garbage the Rox would get now.
This season’s going nowhere, so I’m OK with giving him the months of June & July to see if he can perk up pre trading deadline.
But man – the guy’s 29 years old without any major injury history. this really doesn’t make any sense.
But then — what does about this team?
My favorite Rockie? Why, Ty Van Burkleo, of course!
nobody's going to overpay for 6 weeks of performance assuming he gets hot.
They’ve been watching for the past season and a half. I would think we’d have to pick up part of his remaining salary so we may just have to hold on to him and see if he can do us any good for the rest of the season.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I don't mean overpay...
…I just mean get something of value. A nice middle reliever, a halfway decent prospect, something. As opposed to what they’d get now. Which is zip.
My favorite Rockie? Why, Ty Van Burkleo, of course!
The problem is determing what his value is.
Even if he gets hot, I just don’t see anyone offering much for him.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Agree, little value
The problem is he’s relatively expensive. If the new season non-tenders him in the offseason, you have a rental of an underwhelming player. If they tender him a contract, then he’s bound to make over $6M via arbitration (they can’t cut salaries much even via the arb process) for 2010.
Of bigger concern than Atkins....
…is tulo. If that guy turns out to have a one season mirage, that would be disastrous. Gold Glove power hitting and run producing shortstops come around almost never. We thought we had struck gold and now, I’m not so sure.
After seeing him and Corpas in 2007, I knew in my bones that both guys were the truth. And now? Man, maybe 40 years of watching baseball has just proved that I don’t really know a thing.
But I’m pretty sure I wasn’t alone in my opinion of those two. Could we all have been so wrong?
Crazy. Just crazy.
My favorite Rockie? Why, Ty Van Burkleo, of course!
Tulo will redeem himself....
he’s only 24, and hitters don’t reach their peak until 27. He played over his head in ’07, but can return to that level when he reaches his prime, say in 2011 or 12.
Corpas, on the other hand, was always suspect due to his lower than stud-closer walk rate. I still think he can be a good 7th or 8th inning type reliever, but no way he can dominate in the 9th again like he did in 2007.
Thing about Corpas is that walks aren't his problem.
Whatever seemed suspect about in him in 2007 may still be there, but he’s an entirely different pitcher now. I don’t think anyone could have seen this coming as it did, with either of them.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Oops, I meant....
lower than stud-close K rate in ’07. Sorry.
i hope your right
such high hopes for him i do not want him turning into bobby crosby or khalil greene urgg
2 more wins for back to back on the Pens and a repeat Go Wings!!!
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jun 3, 2009 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
There are differences, though
in that Greene has a serious social anxiety issue. And well, I guess Tulo could be become riddled with injuries like Crosby (including back issues, I think), but so far this year Tulo’s avoided the big injuries.
You know what I think?
In response to your post, and the ones above concerning Atkins: I’m beginning to think that something may be fundamentally wrong with the organization’s player development philosophy/module/strategy.
Atty should not, at his age, fallen “off the cliff”. He was still relatively young in ‘06, and even accounting for age, this kind of drop-off is weird. I’m convinced that part of Tulo’s problem is his ego, but Corpas? No clue. All of this leaves me terrified of what might become of Dex, Stewart, CDI, and other youngun’s that we bring up.
There are many others here on the Row who know far more than I about this kind of thing, and I’d appreciate it if they’d chime in with their thoughts.
So. When is enough enough?
It is interesting....
….that the most successful position players to come out of the farm system in recent years (Holliday and Hawpe) were both less than dynamic prospects. Holliday was nothing special in the minors and Hawpe came up with more or less the same type of billing as Seth Smith. Nice player, maybe a good player someday. But no one was holding parades when he got called up.
It’s the guys who tore through the farm system, captured national attention and took this town by storm who are the ones falling off the cliff.
I have no idea how to extrapolate meaning from that, but there you have it.
My favorite Rockie? Why, Ty Van Burkleo, of course!
Disagree a little on this comparison between Hawpe and Smith
although Hawpe did not come w/ huge fan fair it had more to do w/ age, but he did put up huge HR numbers hitting 31 in 3/4 of a season in AAA, 22 HR’s in 2 other seasons in low A and High A, but Smith never hit more than 17 and Smith’s highest OPS .909, Hawpe had 3 seasons better than that.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
One thing I didn't get a chance to cover
Was smith’s improvement every season in the minors.
his batting averages stayed relatively stable, but every year, his ISO’s both got better, namely his discipline.
What Smith lacks in power (compared to Hawpe), he’ll make up in fielding.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
by Andrew Martin on Jun 4, 2009 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions
I really like Seth
and I think he is a major upgrade defensively over Hawpe. I was only arguing the point that Hawpe was equal or lesser to Smith coming through the system, I think Hawpe actually had better minor league numbers and numbers that I think would seem to point to him having a great chance of being a good major league hitter. I don’t think Hawpe suddenly appeared and shocked everyone that he could hit, he was expected to hit. He just didn’t have a position or an opening for awhile.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Can Seth play RF?
I assume that’s not a great position for him due to his arm, but they did play him there some last year.
He can
But it hasn’t gone well so far. LF seems to be his specialty spot.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 4, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I tend to agree...
The other team I follow is the White Sox… and they’ve taken some of our trash and at least made it workable. See Uribe, Nix, hell even Scotty P this second time around. Only someone much smarter than me can explain it.
You know you want to check out Matt's Korea blog: http://koreamatt.wordpress.com
I was right there with you on Tulo. Never have been too sure about Corpas.
But hey, if there’s a deal for Tulo that could help us, I’d be ok with moving him. I don’t think anyone in this organization is untouchable.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I was right with you
on both guys. So excited for the future. As much as I blame DOD for the current state of affairs, the regression of these guys (and others) is not his fault. These guys need to re-discover what we all saw in 2007.
"Gold Glove power hitting and run producing shortstops come around almost never"
and it hasn’t this time either. Just saying….
by cocainelips99 on Jun 4, 2009 8:31 AM MDT up reply actions
It hasn't yet
I think we are being a little quick on burying Tulo, as was said earlier, he’s 24 for crying out loud. He’s sitting at about 2 full years in the bigs, maybe less w/ his injuries. His prime should be in 2-3 years, lets see if he’s still struggling, but lets not call him garbage yet. Some guys start their careers on a tear, but most feel it out for a couple years, especially if they get called up as a 22 yr old.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
"Atty should not, at his age, fallen "off the cliff""
This just happens sometimes. I’m not denying a large part of it may be the fault of the Rockies organization, but its not unprecedented.
Here's my opinion
There is one thing that could explain what has happened to Atkins. Its mental.
He started declining once it became obvious that Stewart was going to be the future of the franchise. Atkins, when he was “the man”, didn’t have the rise in declining numbers that he has experienced since the team brought up the one guy that Atkins has been looking over his shoulder at. Baker was never a real threat, but once Stewart won trainging camp MVP, Atkins KNEW he had real competition for likely the first time in his baseball career.
The same thing is happening with Stewart, only in reverse. With Stewart, he clearly excels when he’s “the man” at the level he figures he should be playing at. If he’s at AA but figures he should be at AAA, he kind of sleep-walks his way through parts of the season waiting for the organization to see what he see’s.
He broke out last year because he KNOWS he’s a Major Leaguer, and anything less than being the starter seems to be a personal “dis”. Play him every day at 3B, and like last year, his production will improve because he’s where he’s always been told he should be.
If I'm correct
in remembering 2004 Atkins was placed at 3B to hold a spot for the newly drafted Ian Stewart or Jeff Baker, who had quite a bit of promise himself. What Atkins did was put up numbers that made him a main stay at third base and the team could not move him. He held the position nicely and now it’s finally time to hand it over to the HS draftee from 2003.
"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK
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