Unexpected Moves
Matt Daley, as expected, will join the team tomorrow. What we didn't expect was Jason Grilli being the victim; he was designated for assignment after the game. In addition, the Rockies have decided to give CarGo is MLB shot, much earlier than I admittedly expected. Matt Murton has been optioned to the Sky Sox.
almost 3 years ago
Greg Stanwood
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When you look back at Grilli's recent outings, it's not a big surprise.
And Murton’s 3 Ks tonight didn’t help his situation. Leaves Spilly as the only right handed bat in the OF with Dex a SH. But it was time to see what CarGo can do. And Tracy will have a full time job juggling those infielders.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
"When you look back at Grilli's recent outings, it's not a big surprise."
Performance wise, no. But did you honestly expect them to DFA Grilli? It certainly was a surprise to me, performance or not.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess I really expected Perallta to be moved but performance wise Grilli has had some rough outings.
So from that standpoint, I’m not totally surprised.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
It makes sense...
… but it was still a surprise. Grilli’s struggled, but he was our best bullpen pitcher not three weeks ago. How quickly one can fall back to Earth…
It should be noted that the article mentions that Grilli still has the ability to be outrighted without refusal (every player is allowed this once, and despite being active in a lot of years, Grilli does not have the service time to refuse by default). If he clears waivers, he has to stay in the organization. However, something tells me he gets claimed.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised if he doesn't get claimed.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Not surprised here
watching the guy’s stuff, its amazing to me that he did as well as he did. Not a hater, but he was living on borrowed time.
"he was our best bullpen pitcher"
That’s really not saying much though.
by cocainelips99 on Jun 5, 2009 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
He was very good all through April.
He had a couple bad outings with inherited runners though,.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
relief pitchers are so much harder to guage
They’re only out for one inning at a time (typically) so every mistake is magnified that much more. ERAs are deceptive, as they don’t really tell the story, as there might have been 7 goose egg innings with no baserunners followed by one monster 5 run inning and now their ERA is all skewed. Knowing how to evaluate peripherals is key with RPs.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions
That's my worry
And Tracy will have a full time job juggling those infielders.
I assume you meant “outfielders.” I hope there’s another move coming, or CarGon could find himself sitting around.
We are going to be seeing a 3 way platoon of Smith, Fowler, and CarGo...
… in LF and CF. If anyone’s going to lose playing time here, it’s Spilly.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:56 PM MDT up reply actions
So would you see Spilly as a trade candidate?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Spilly is a trade candidate..
… however, if I had to guess (which, as we all know means next to nothing), I’d say Hawpe is traded first, pre deadline, and Spilly is part of a trade package in the offseason we use to get bullpen help.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
We'll be shopping him to contenders who are having problems with injuries, or simply need a boost.
They’re more likely to pay. I’d say, based upon his career stats and current performance, he is worth one average+ MLB ready arm, and maybe a risky prospect on the side. I don’t expect a huge return, but it will be one we can use quickly, perhaps high risk, high reward type of thing, which is kind of what Hawpe will be seen to them.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Hawpe high risk?
Why would Hawpe be high risk? He’s not going to hit consistently as he has for the first 50 games this year, but he has a track record of being a good not great hitter, like a Raul Ibanez (who is also going nuts so far this year).
I find it interesting to see what the Pirates received for McLouth, who is younger and cheaper than Hawpe. The player closest to the majors is a starter who is generally projected as a back of the rotation guy, with prospects with the higher ceilings being in AA and A ball.
High risk may not have been the right word.
The risk is that Hawpe will produce as he has been recently. Hawpe has had a history of inconsistency, and it is not unthinkable that it could return. Point is, he may not be what we trade him after the trade.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I can't imagine teams believe Hawpe's really one of the best hitters in the league
On the other hand, his 2006-2008 show a good, solid hitter.
that's the key
A few people might be fooled by this heat, but everyone knows he’s a legitimate upper .800’s OPS guy, high OBP and solid power.
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for Fredo
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions
But he playz at Coorz Feild
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jun 6, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
But, now with both Fowler and CarGo, prospects who need their playing time, covering LF and CF
With Hawpe and Smith, two of our best hitters, also in the mix, that’s already four players for three spots. It used to be Spilly who filled in for Fowler’s days off, like today. Now it’ll be CarGo, with Smith being the LF more than likely. Spilly is now basically our fifth OF/right handed PH.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions
And who moves to right when Hawpe is moved?
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
My bad. I did mean "outfielders".
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
Carlos
just keep hitting the ball.
I really think Gonzalez move is being made ahead of a trade of Hawpe.
No more asking please for wins, now I'm telling you: YOU WILL WIN.
"Good is not good when better is expected." -Vin Scully
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jun 4, 2009 10:22 PM MDT reply actions
sell high.
No more asking please for wins, now I'm telling you: YOU WILL WIN.
"Good is not good when better is expected." -Vin Scully
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jun 4, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Why not wait until this trade happens, then?
I think this was a simply a “Murton’s been average, CarGo’s pounding down the door” move. But, I was wrong about CarGo’s callup to begin with, so I may be wrong about this.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Hawpe
I wonder if he’ll really go. I mean, it makes a certain sense, sitting here in my Mom’s basement, if they can get something of value for him. And if you’re gonna do it, you should do it before the deadline; waiting until the offseason just makes it a less attractive version of the Holliday deal for other teams.
Does DOD have the guts, though?
I firmly believe Hawpe will be shopped at the deadline.
And it’s not that unlikely that there will be suitors, specifically teams in contention 2-3 games back of a playoff spot looking for an extra offensive boost.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Sports Illustrated
Specifically suggests the Mets might want Hawpe. And the Giants might want Atkins and the Twins, Barmes.
My God, didn't these two just make appearences like, a little over an hour ago?
What is that? Like, really?
“Hey, Matt, buddy, why don’t you start tonight? You haven’t started that much since making it to the show.”
“Dude, Grilli, my main man, why don’t you go in and pitch for a couple innings? It’s not as stressful as usual for you, cause we’re brining in runs by the bucketload. So just go out there and have some fun!”
and then “oh, yeah, by the way, we don’t want you on the team anymore.”
It was expected that Murton would wind up going down to make room for CarGo, but Grilli did come as somewhat of a shock. I really didn’t think that it would be quite that soon for even Murton to go, though. Especially after he gives them both outings, lol.
I wonder if these moves wouldn't have been made if they'd performed better.
I find that unlikely, as the fact they were announced after the game instead of tomorrow morning suggests they were ready to go right away, but it is possible.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Murton was given the opportunity batting cleanup today.
No more asking please for wins, now I'm telling you: YOU WILL WIN.
"Good is not good when better is expected." -Vin Scully
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jun 4, 2009 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Probably due to his past good history against Wandy...
… which is why Hurdle had started him at cleanup when the Astros came to Coors. laughably, Murton’s been poor against Wandy this year.
I doubt we’ve seen the last of Mr. Murton.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions
You're probably right about the timing of the announcement.
I’m not sure they had another viable choice in the outfield. So unless Murton did something just out of this world, that decision was probably already made. Grilli’s appearance tonight could have been a “last look” but who knows.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Author: Jim Bouton
I know I did.
But aside from that, he’s been pitching moderately well.
With Buchholz, and eventually Speier returning to our pen, Grilli may not turn out to be that big of a loss, assuming Daley stays in form and Peralta doesn’t end up becoming more than a temporary solution. Flores and Fogg, at this point, have earned long term spots until the deflate.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
don't get too high on Speier yet
He looks like crap on his rehab assignments
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions
He's nothing special
But he seems to be a nice guy and I was happy to see him come back from labrum surgery.
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
I think he has above average late relief potential, including the ability to do 8th inning setup.
That is, if he recovers from the damage that’s been done to him this year.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
issue is he isn't 23 anymore
or 25
or 27
Speier is kind of past the “development” ages.
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for Fredo
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
A player never HAS to stop being developed.
All that happens is that a history is given. Take a look at Hawpe; he’s an entirely different player than he was throughout his career this year. Speier, or any other player, is not locked into anything just because they’re getting older. Hell, the organization is trying TOO hard to change him right now, with the new delivery failure.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions
He looks like crap because they ruined his delivery.
And injured him again.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 5, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Isn't Murton fungible?
He can be optioned, and is useful but not great. I think he was sent down because he could, rather than this being a statement on his performance.
The choice for it to be Murton, absolutely, is for those reasons.
But I am speaking as to why this move was made right after a game where he started.
by Greg Stanwood on Jun 4, 2009 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Well one thing's for sure
The “change” era has really, officially arrived. Can’t say I’m sorry. I’m a hair surprised at the move with Grilli, but what the heck do I know? Happy about CarGo, however. Let’s see what he can do in the Show, and how next season’s OF will shape up.
So. When is enough enough?
Next seasons OF?
That is in the here and now, and I can’t wait to see how this thing works. Here come the Rockies (we still have a little time to be the best team in baseball for the next 4 months).
"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK
OF logjam
This will not work, someone has to get traded or Fowler gets optioned to AAA.
If the team dumps Hawpe it would be a colossal blunder and lose what goodwill is remaining in the fanbase.
3-way platoon of Smith, Fowler, and CarGon
Ringolsby’s article mentions that, and that (Jim) Tracy would try to give each of the 3 5 starts a week in CF/LF. Obviously, that’s not possible. If they’re going to short someone, I hope it’s not CarGon or Fowler. (And I like Spilly and Smith.) I think if you’re going to call these guys up, you have to let them learn to play in the league.
Well
If there are 6 games a week, and 2 positions, that’s 12 games between 3 players, meaning 4 per player, which is the midpoint of 3 to 5
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
yeah seriously, I'm gonna have an MS in 6 months!!!!1
If anyone’s looking, hire me!
Matt Murton status: Freed
Chris Iannetta status: Mashing AAA
Seth Smith status: Badass
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jun 5, 2009 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
MLE's
MLE for Coors, from minorleaguesplits.com. (I assume the split on CarGon’s player page there is for a neutral MLB park):
.294 / .356 / .510
Not bad at all. I’m not sure what to expect from him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he matches it—OF prospects have done well here in general. OTOH, CarGon has a long track record of being worse. Let’s hope his lauded talent finally took over.
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