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Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

Tuesday Rockpile: Rox Stars to represent NL tonight, Are the Giants a farce?

Sorry for the late Pile this morning.  My dinosaur of a computer decided to go into a  morning coma.

All-Star News

Hawpe, Marquis humbly lifting Rockies | ColoradoRockies.com: News
TR Sullivan and Thomas Harding feature the Rockies two All-Stars this year, complete with a video interview.

Woody Paige's column from yesterday speaks about how Brad Hawpe is now shining out from under the shadow he's been blocked by for most of his career.  There's actually some flowers among the weeds in the piece giving Hawpe his due praise and credit, but I can't resist pointing out he's not the most valuable outfielder for the Rockies, at least according to WAR.

Hawpe won't be an All-Star starter, but at least a Colorado native will take the mound first for the AL. Halladay was named the A.L. starter, to nobody's surprise.

Prince outslugs field to take Derby crown | MLB.com: News
Prince Fielder edged out upstart Nelson Cruz for the derby win last night, bringing up the obligatory question:  how will this derby affect the sluggers' swings the rest of the season?  You may have seen such arguments before, but RJ Anderson at Fangraphs reaffirms:  there is no carry over effect.  He uses solid arguments of regression and the fact that contestants are more likely to have hit an inordinate number of home runs in the season's first half to earn a spot in the derby.

 

The Doc

In case you haven't noticed, Jays ace Roy Halladay is on trade block.

Troy Renck's mailbag is populated by fans with high hopes for Halladay, and it also answers why players' back pockets are inside out sometimes, which I believe someone asked in a game thread a few weeks back.

For your morning comedy, check out Woody's Paige column:: Halladay could make it happen.  Among the gems, a self-righteous personal declaration of sage wisdom for forseeing Halladay's apparent availability (don't think he was the only one), a Krukism ("They're not likely to be the NL's Wild Card team" - 2GB in 2nd place is one foot in the grave I guess), and of course, the irrational trade suggestion:

Why not Brandon Hynick, Alan Johnson and Greg Reynolds — three hopefuls in Colorado Springs — for a future Hall of Famer?

At least there's no Quintanilla this time.  Sigh.

In news related to the Rockies' actual rotation, as tipped by Foo Man yesterday, the Rockies Rotation is Set For Second Half, according to Jack Etkin.

 

Other Links

Lucky Teams | FanGraphs Baseball
Matthew Carruth of Fangraphs (and I believe Lookout Landing) developed a convoluted formula (far more complicated than Pythagorean W-L) to evaluate how lucky teams are, eventually calcualting how many wins a team should have if luck played no role.  The Rockies are two games on the unlucky side while the Giants are second in the NL with +10 games on the lucky side.  So if we removed luck and everyone was just as lucky, what would the standings be?

NL West Standings with matthew carruth's luck factor added

W L PCT GB STRK
Los Angeles 56 32 .636 0 Won 1
Colorado 49 39 .556 7 Won 1
Arizona 46 43 .534 10.5
Lost 1
San Francisco 39 49
.426 17
Lost 1
San Diego 37 51 .409 19
Won 1

(updated 7.14.2009 at 8:23 AM MDT)

So the Giants have been VERY lucky.  Yeah I know, luck is part of the game and I have 21 reasons not to eliminate luck.  And yeah, I know - his method seems mystical and fabricated and far less real than the results on the field.  I'm just pointing out he IS an unbiased party, and this is yet another piece of analysis on an overwhelming pile - like this or this or this  - that point to the Rockies actually being better than the Giants.  Maybe they are on to something.  If there is any validity to Matthew's findings, the only question is whether the Giants' luck can be attributed to grit, which is sustainable, or blind luck, which is not.

Matt Herges was DFA'd by the Indians. I would advocate taking a flyer.  If you need any reasons why, go back and check out RMN's Counting Rocks on Herges from July 4.

Pirates writers have apparently given up on matching up Freddy Sanchez with the Rockies, but they still are trying to match Eric Young Jr. in a trade, this time for bullpen help.  No further details.

2009 MLB Trade Value: Introduction | FanGraphs Baseball
Last link of the day.  Fangraphs is ranking the top 50 most valuable players in MLB, if involved in a trade.  This weighs out production as well as potential, contrac length and money owed.  They've posted #50-46 so far.  It could be an interesting read to monitor.

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I'd honestly love to know

Why Paige thinks that Ricciardi would accept our trash that can’t even crack our rotation for their Ace, the best pitcher in the AL.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:03 AM MDT reply actions  

I wonder if he honestly believes it

It’s just unfortunate that so many “fans” have their ideas shaped by Paige and other columnists, so when the deal doesn’t get done, they whine that the Monforts wouldn’t give up three AAA pitchers for a true ace

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 14, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I never claim to be a good evaluator of trades

but good Lord, Woody, come on.

I wonder how Morales could fit into this

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

If I were JP Riccardi

Morales would be one guy I would absolutely want from the Rockies.

I think I’d ask for Iannetta, Spilborghs, Morales, either Chacin or Rogers, and one more B-grade prospect. And I think the Rockies would have to at least mull that over, although it’s a pretty steep price.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do the Jays really need more pitching?

Don’t they have like an entire rotation coming back from injury for next year?

by moomacher on Jul 14, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

You can never have too much pitching.

Especially since, you know, in this theoretical trade, they’re losing Roy Halladay.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

of all the speculation trades I've seen

this one is both fair, and would help both teams. Which is one of the keys to any trade, that most fans over look. i would suspect that the throw in would be a middle infielder. EY2 (because of how close he is) or Gomez (because of how high his ceiling is) may be a bit much, Nelson being hurt might not be of value, and not sure if there is another quality one in the Rockies minors.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

no....

It may be in line with what the Blue Jays can (and should) get, but it wouldn’t be smart on the Rockies part. No way the Rockies should trade away Iannetta in a Halladay package. The idea in getting Halladay would be to mortgage the future for success today—since, it is unlikely Halladay stays beyond 1.5 years. The goal in my mind would be not to trade away players that are important for playoff runs in the near future—losing Iannetta would hurt the current major league team, so it is counter-productive toward the goal.

In reality, I just don’t see a good match with the Rockies and the Blue Jays for Halladay. The Blue Jays should get better offers from teams with stronger upper level prospects and the Rockies just can’t meet their price without damaging the major league club.

by DenverBears on Jul 14, 2009 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

That was my point.

That was a deal I would think the Jays would be happy with, not one I think the Rockies would or should do.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

This is a very good point

I think the Jays would love to have Morales included in any deal and there are way too many Rox fans selling him short. He is still very young, has a power left handed arm, and seems to be figuring out how to pitch. I would hate to see him go elsewhere and become the guy I think he will. You include him, as if he is part of the trash w/ Johnson, Hynick, and Reynolds, he is definitely a cut above those talent wise. I don’t think we should make this deal either, but I think the Jays would be tempted by a deal like this.

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Jul 14, 2009 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think that anybody's calling Morales trash

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

also Hynick is hardly trash

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hynick is hardly trash

but he is a #4 at best in a big league rotation, which in my book is not trash, and if it is, it would be trash I would aspire to be. It is trash, when you relate it to what Halladay is however, and I am saying from a trade and talent perspective, Hynick is trash in this offer and we all know it. However, I would not equate Morales to any of the other 3 mentioned in this awesome trade idea that Woody brings to the table.

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

by smokinRox on Jul 14, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

You need more oomph in your "COME ON!"

To be fair, he did toss in Atkins in his hypothetical trade deal.

Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 14, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think

anybody actually takes Woddy seriously anymore. He’s a fun read and that’s about it. I am surprised by how many fans figure they can pull off the trade equivilent of cleaning out the back of their closets and somehow swaping that haul for a new Armaini suit.

by Since1993 on Jul 14, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Let's play a game

Let’s pretend we’re the general manager of the Toronto Blue Jays. And let’s pretend Rockies GM Woody Paige calls us and offers us Brandon Hynick, Alan Johnson, and Greg Reynolds for Roy Halladay.

The game is this: how fast do you think you would hang up the phone?

Would you be indignant and slam the phone down? Would you take a moment to be polite and say ‘Thanks but no thanks’? Would you howl with laughter, dropping the phone and leaving the line open so that Woody could hear you until he hung up and started working on a new trade package involving Adam Eaton, Omar Quintanilla, and Ryan Speier for Halladay?

I’ll start the bidding. I would hang up in 2.1 seconds, the amount of time it takes me (and I checked) to say “**** you, don’t ****ing call me again.”

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 9:10 AM MDT reply actions  

I'd tell him

to hold on a minute while I put him on the speaker and ask him to repeat his proposal once the room is crowded.

"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ Oates on Jul 14, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

But....but....but Woody Paige is so brilliant!
Unfortunately, though, fhwee, fhwee, fhwee.

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

fhwee

fhwee

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have never laughed so hard

Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg

by wolf213 on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hilarious!

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

"So, don't give us that "fhwee-only" fhwee."

“No guts, no fhwee. "

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I play this opposite of you

shocking I know

I’d come back with a just as ridiculous demand, like, Stewart, Fowler, Jimenez, Iannetta, Gomez and Chacin for Wells, and Halladay. But I’d add, “Hey this is just or starting points, lets see if we can find a workable middle ground” Then I’d hang up after a polite Buh-bye.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

I demand unloading Rios as well

And getting Quintanilla in return.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Rios

well, I actually think Rios has more up side potential than Wells, and as pointed out recently his contract isn’t as bad, or not in the same level of badness as Wells’ contract.

I actually think think from the Blue Jays side, that is how it will play out…the will start with Wells and Halladay…and end up swapping Rios, because Rios and Halladay is more palatable (personally I think Rios has a nasty huge contract for his performance level, but it’s not as bad as Wells which is even worse) then Wells and Halladay for the other team.

As the Blue Jay GM I noticed you didn’t ask for Dinger or do you prefer to go young and get Socks the Fox from the Springs?

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

fhwee

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hey, is Halladay's contract in Canadian $$s?

Cause I was thinking we could…..you know because it’s not as much…….exchange rate……ah screw it.

Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile

by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 14, 2009 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

fhwee

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

The Avs don't have any

talent to offer…not even for the Maple Leafs

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

They can have Darcy Tucker back.

Not in a Halladay trade or anything, I just want them to take Darcy Tucker back.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't want to give them the Avs

can we give them the Predators or the Coyotes, or both?…I mean America isn’t using them, might as well ship them to Canada.

for DVD collections of the Red Green Show.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

if the women don't find you handsome

they’ll at least find you handy

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

As it would seem the hockey fad has largely faded in Colorado

I think it would be a nice gesture to return the Nordiques to Canada in exchange for Roy Halladay.

by Since1993 on Jul 14, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

If you think the hockey fad has faded in Colorado

Then you must not live in Colorado.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

With the Avs sucking

my interest in hockey has merely shifted to the college game.

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Go DU!

Oh, and obligatory “CC sucks!”

by ShadowPenguin on Jul 14, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Damn right!

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Exactly

“Attendance at NHL games down because the team blows” != “fad fading”

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

= denver sports fans suck

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

You have them in every city

But I dont see the connection between bandwagon fans and not selling out every arena and stadium in town all the time. Why pay big bucks, especially in this economy, to go watch an awful team? I would say there are fewer diehard fans in Denver, but not any more bandwagon fans than in any other part of the country.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Eh, fair point

But it just drove me nuts in Rocktober when I would walk around campus, and see tons of people wearing Rockies gear that was obviously brand new, that they only bought because the Rox were doing well.

by ShadowPenguin on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Does it seem that only the Broncos are immune?

The Broncos have the history of fan support, and that enormous season ticket base built up. The other 3 teams seem like they will draw if they win, otherwise, interest (and attendance) drops off. I wonder if the tv ratings follow.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Football is a different animal.

Aside from the history, there are only 8 home games in a season.

by holly96 on Jul 14, 2009 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's not widely known

but the Broncos haven’t been selling out their games like they used to do. That said, this season should be interesting. A number of Broncos fans (myself included) are not pleased with what has transpired over the offseason. Whether that has an impact on attendance/fan support remains to be seen.

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it depend on how they start the season.

I think even people that aren’t happy are probably not sure how well (or not) they’ll end up playing. For me, at least, I feel like there’s a lot of uncertainty. So I’m mostly ignoring them until the season actually starts.

by holly96 on Jul 14, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well, they have sold out every game...

The thing is that the Broncos have more or less been average or better since Elway came in 1983.

Denver fans have been spoiled in that regard, actually.

Eschew Obfuscation!

by Jeff Aberle on Jul 14, 2009 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

actually,

= “Denver sports fans have other options for their entertainment dollar than to go pay stupid prices for a crappy hockey team.”

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

Native actually

though it’s just too fun to chide the few remaining hockey fans who still think the “WWF on ice” is a sport in the classic sense.

by Since1993 on Jul 14, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

easy there tiger

that’s its own entire debate

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

My Favorite Red Green quote

If Duct tape is a handy mans best friend, then black electrical tape would be his fishing buddy.

What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????

by FlyAway on Jul 14, 2009 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

hey

The Avs have a lot of talent, and the Leafs are an absolute garbage team.

Stastny, Wolski, other guys = good

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wolski good, Stastny great,

everyone else, nasty crap. Sure glad I didn’t spend any money on a John-Michael Turnstiles jersey back when it actually looked like he could be good.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

What he said

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

I hope Duchene

Lives up to all the hype we’re hearing. Duchene and Stastny would be an amazing set of centers for many years (injuries pending)

by ShadowPenguin on Jul 14, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes they would

But apparently the Avs aren’t aware that you’re supposed to have a left wing on every line.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Really excited about this Duchene kid

I really hope he is as good as advertised

by Muzia on Jul 14, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Paige would probably take that deal.

Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg

by wolf213 on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'd ask to speak to the Monforts and ask them why in the name of everything that's holy did they make Woody GM.

"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine

by pedalpusher on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

LMAO

rec’d

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Very good news is that

Friedrich pitched pretty well last night for Modesto. 5 1/3 innings 1 ER 3 K/1BB. 7/5 GO/FO.

by moomacher on Jul 14, 2009 9:15 AM MDT reply actions  

I was reading DP comments because I hate myself

And someone said:

The Rockies would have to trade at least Helton, Hawpe, or Tulo (maybe 2 out of the 3)and a starting pitcher. Trading for Halladay would destroy the offense of the Rocks and set them back years.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:24 AM MDT reply actions  

Did you see this one?
The comparison with Billups is spot on. The answer is to sign Iverson for the mid-level exception and trade him for Halladay.

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

LOL

That is actually quite funny.

by holly96 on Jul 14, 2009 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Greg Reynolds

It’s kinda of unrelated but isn’t Reynold consider a draft bust pick? I figure with the amount of injuries he has had starting his career he is done.

Opinions

by lizardlad01 on Jul 14, 2009 9:58 AM MDT reply actions  

yes

fhwee

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not sure it's injuries

It has to to with stuff or lack there of.

and yes…big time bust.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Disappointment, sure

But that’s injury-related. But bust? He’s only twenty-fhwee! (Actually, 24, but for the sake of the joke…)

I still think if he can come out in 2010 and be healthy there remains a chance for him to be a big-league starter. He’s just been robbed of the chance to figure out what his out pitch is going to be at the big league level because of all the injuries.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Don't you think, though,

that a 2nd overall pick who is 24 and has no idea what his “out pitch” might be is in serious peril of being a bust? Particularly when it seems unlikely that he’s just going to find said “out pitch” under his pillow sometime? Leaving aside the serious injury issues.

I agree that we may still get something out of him and I hate to give up on him entirely, but there cannot be any reasonable expectation that he can be more than just a “guy” at this point. That said, I’ve been wrong about a lot of Rockies stuff lately, hopefully my streak will continue and he’ll surprise.

by Teekalong on Jul 14, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't necessarily disagree with you

but I’m wary of calling somebody a bust before their career has any chance of really getting on track. That’s just me. Ricky Romero was being looked at as a bust before he broke out this season. Some guys take longer than others for various reasons. I’m not saying Reynolds will ever be an ace. But I’m not counting him out, and so I’m not calling him a bust.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Very fair point

and I’m with you. Some guys just have the lightbulb turn on, and you never know if Greg has that in him. I remember hoping when we drafted him that he’d be like Chris Young from SD, and aside from never getting to play in Petco, I guess that’s still not entirely impossible.

by Teekalong on Jul 14, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Woody Paige's new website

Just click here.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:01 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

fhwee

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't mean to fhwee my own horn

But this fhwee might be the best thing I’ve ever fhwee.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

did you fhwee it

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fhwee course.

It was as fhwee as fhwee.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fhwee fhwee fanshot fhwee?

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fhwee Woodie!!!!

FHWEE Woodie!!!

Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg

by wolf213 on Jul 14, 2009 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Your fwhee-quest is my fhwee. Fhwee-shot posted.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hey Russ or Rox girl... I think we found what the new banner should be

FHWEE!!!

Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg

by wolf213 on Jul 14, 2009 10:16 AM MDT reply actions  

or

“ZOMG TEH ROCKIES SHOULD TRADE FHWEE FHWEE FHWEE FOR HALLADAY!!!!1”

Seriously though, can we trade Woody Paige for Rod Barajas?

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

Purple Row: So Good You'll Fhwee Your Pants

The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.

by Resolution on Jul 14, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Purple Row: kruk the fhwee!

"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson

by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

On somewhat of a side note

this might be the biggest piece of garbage I have ever read period. Mom mother is a second grade teacher and I sometimes have read her students work in the past. Even its better then this. Who ever let this go to print needs to be fired on the spot, along with the fhwee who wrote it. This piece of garbage right here is the reason the newspaper industry is going to fhwee.

Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg

by wolf213 on Jul 14, 2009 10:20 AM MDT reply actions  

Look how many people responded

Seems like all but one post so far are Paige-related.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

i was afraid of that

That’s why I almost didn’t include it. Ah well

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 14, 2009 11:24 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

He did his job, huh?

Sometimes it’s just too hard to resist posting the link to it even if you know you’re playing right into the trap…

Paige isn’t this ignorant. He hides how ignorant he actually is under the shell of greater buffoonery, though. Because he can’t write something that’s reasonably intelligent on the sport, he goes to the other extreme and writes something completely inane. He can pretend to save face for a lack of wit by resorting to putting out something that’s clearly beneath him. A lot of reasonably smart people then come away with the idea that he’s a reasonably smart man himself in a clown costume, when he’s actually probably just your average college educated pretentious jerk. In a clown costume.

by Rox Girl on Jul 14, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wait...who's handing out the clown costumes?

And when do I get one?

Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4

by Charlie77 on Jul 16, 2009 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

and yet fhwee read it in the interfhwee

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Seth Smith

more valuable than Hawpe…is why some of us old folks (old at 32, I guess) are very skeptical of a lot of these cool new acronym advanced stats. As above, COME ON.

by Teekalong on Jul 14, 2009 11:07 AM MDT reply actions  

Not just an offensive stat

Smith’s been so much better than Hawpe defensively (according to these numbers) that it makes up the difference in offensive production. I don’t agree with it but it’s not the most far-fetched thing I’ve ever had a stat tell me.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Although,

Now that I’m looking at those team defense numbers, and seeing the scores for Fowler, Stewart, Helton, and Tulo… lets just say those defensive numbers aren’t worth the bandwith they’re hosted on.

Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.

by Franchise26 on Jul 14, 2009 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

they do tend to have some sample size issues

Tulo and Fowler looked far worse by those numbers a month ago. I pointed out recently these metrics showed smith as a far better left fielder than cargo

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 14, 2009 11:37 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm still skeptical of UZR

But they are interesting indicators.

I buy Helton’s UZR because he’s not the guy he once was playing the ball off of the bat. His strength comes in the form of picking balls from across the infield on the *-3 putout, and that’s kind of like catching and not being an easily quantifiable stat.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

UZR should be taken in large doses

think in terms of seasons…and they’re definitely not accurate to a digit past the decimal point, but perhaps within 5 runs or so. The issue is that the data input can vary. Esp. with outfielders, where different scorers can make different calls on a batted ball on trajectory and speed. (This is why people are excited about the prospect of the various ball-in-flight and player movement trackers…the ability to get a little more object data to input into the models.)

So for Smith and Fowler, I think we need to wait and see. It doesn’t seem like Smith is that good in left or that Fowler is that bad in CF.

Helton and Tulo’s numbers don’t necessarily seem that off to me. Helton misses one now and again, and the idea that a 35-yr old has lost a step isn’t that outlandish. Tulo, I guess that seems a little low to be right around average. However, he doesn’t seem as explosive as 2007.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Which is to say, yes you need to be skeptical

Take into account the precision of the stat given the limitations in sample size and the nature of data that is input into the system. Compare them to other pbp-based metrics, esp. if you can find one that isn’t based on BIS data (which is what fangraphs UZR uses). One should apply this sort of skepticism to all stats, really.

But “skeptical” doesn’t mean it’s useless IMO.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

oh absolutely

and I hope I wasn’t pointing at “worthless”. But UZR and RZR and FRAA all disagree on guys like Dex and Ichiro and I don’t really know what to think about any of them.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

FRAA

is a bit of cipher to me. I don’t have a BPro sub, so I don’t even know when they went to pbp stats. Did they ever discuss how the system is built?

RZR on THT is also based on BIS’s pbp data. (I’m not sure about the fielding bible stuff.)

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've never seen how they build FRAA

But I haven’t looked too hard into it. I still maintain the opinion that BP is smoke, mirrors, and snakeoil, as you can’t see how anything is formulated.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

While there is no question

that Smith is a superior outfielder to Hawpe it terms of range, he ain’t that special and has limited PT in comparison. So what that stat seems to be telling me is that Hawpe’s defense is so gawdawful that it negates all his great offensive contributions. People have been saying similar stuff about ManRam for years, etc. I flat out don’t buy it.

(And I say this as a decided non-Hawpe defense apologist, having watched him give up those two crucial doubles down the line in Game 3 of the WS, with the perfect view and thinking all the while that those plays should have been made.)

by Teekalong on Jul 14, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

If UZR was complete

Hawpe would still be a positive player, because his bat is so strong. Manny is far from negated, bad defense included.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hawpe is still a positive player

~1.4 WAR in half a season. That’s pretty good.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Only relative to Smith

That is, Hawpe’s D doesn’t negate all his offensive contributions, just most of it relative to Smith. Smith has put up very strong offensive numbers himself—they’re pretty even according to fangraphs. (Statcorner has a little bit bigger gap, so it would be good to know how the two sites calculate wOBA and how they do their park adjustments.) Before considering defense, fangraphs has Hawpe with 13.6 more runs above replacement than Smith. (The decimal pt is an abstraction, no one really considers it that accurate.)

Smith also benefits from being compared defensively to other LFers rather than RFers, and I’d guess the LFer are a less talented a bunch as a whole. (How much do Manny and Dunn drag down the average?) Even if we regress Smiths’ score close to 0 for the small sample size (he has 422 innings in the OF in his MLB career), there’s the matter of Hawpe’s D.

Hawpe has had really bad stats in a number of defensive systems 2007-2009. It seems reasonable that he could be 10 runs below avg for the 1st half.

That would put him about a half a win above Smith.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

FanGraphs

also doesn’t account for defense.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Fangraphs “value” table, which is based on WAR, certainly does consider defense, and defensive position. I think the issue is how accurate/precise the defensive stat is.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

Errr.....

after I posted that, I realized that I was thinking specifically of WPA.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 14, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

WPA is snakeoil

I’m gonna write an article about it.

Someday.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes,

but amusing snakeoil.

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 14, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Like many

stats today. Did you know Mark Reynolds leads the NL in Power-Speed? (Only Kinsler is higher)

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 14, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ah, yeah. Good pt about WPA

When Carlos Gonzalez made that great play on Pujols’ long drive (the one that went for a 2-run SF), I think tango over at the Inside the Book blog gave an estimate on how many runs it saved based on the same tables that WPA uses (saved .87 – .89 runs). Fangraphs’s WPA didn’t show it, though, so CarGon lost out on the WPA. Tango commented that in principle, they could show defensive contribs in the graph, but it gets a lot messier computationally.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

"Seth Smith more valuable than Hawpe"

You better not look to see who fangraphs currently lists as most valuable, then.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 14, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

isn't it hilarious who is on top

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

and who's on bottom

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Q

is ahead of only Baker and Atkins among position players?

Clearly Fangraphs underrates the value of pixie dust…

by Junction Rox on Jul 14, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Herges

No comments yet, but I’ll toss my hat into the Bring Back Herges ring. He’d be another solid reliever who has performed here. I really hope the Rox look into getting him.

by ShadowPenguin on Jul 14, 2009 11:18 AM MDT reply actions  

I think he'd be worth another try.

"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine

by pedalpusher on Jul 14, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

I do too

I don’t expect much, but I’d expect him to be marginally better then Daily, and better/as good as Speier, and Corpas and his bone chips.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 14, 2009 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

Under the circumstances

hard to argue against bringing him back considering the alternatives. But I just think we rode that train as far as it could go in 2007 (and it was a great ride) and the dude probably doesn’t have any more of those Harris-style KY-balls left in the tank.

by Teekalong on Jul 14, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

heath bell on Jim Rome now

Apparently he and a gone missed their connecting flight in indy Sunday and had to rent a car to get to st Louis son time. Excuse for a gone yesterday? Bell then equated their drive to dumb and dumber. Awesome

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 14, 2009 11:42 AM MDT via mobile reply actions  

Dammit.

To think, if we weren’t so damned unlucky, we could be only 10.5 games back!

"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia

by DbacksSkins on Jul 14, 2009 11:49 AM MDT reply actions  

just watched some sportscenter

and Peter Gammons claims that the Giants/Rockies wild card race will be the storyline of the second half!

by mkorpal on Jul 14, 2009 12:08 PM MDT reply actions  

I usually like Peter Gammons

He is a Red Sox guy, but at least acknowledges other teams existence. He is one of the best if not the best on ESPN (though that may be like saying he is the sharpest spoon in the drawer…)

by realmenwearpurple on Jul 14, 2009 12:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Dave Cameron ranked Halladay as only the 37th most valuable player in terms of worth in a trade.

I’m guessing Toronto will have to decide whether they want one top notch guy, or several pretty good players, because I don’t see anyone offering two players who could end up on this list next year.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 15, 2009 1:57 AM MDT reply actions  

unless GMs don't read Fangraphs and don't take it seriously

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

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