The bullpen arms we SHOULD be going after.
by roxintober on Jul 14, 2009 12:19 PM MDT
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I've been doing some research on possible bullpen arms that wouldn't break the bank for the Rockies. Although we'd love a Heath Bell or Cla Merideth, these arms are very unlikely. Some of the others would not be a good fit in the Rockies uniform, just because of Coors Field. Here is my list of possible bullpen arms the Rockies should be looking at.
First on the list, this is just based on most wanted, and I believe would be more likely than Bell or Qualls, would be Brad Ziegler. He strikes out a good amount, keeps walks low (2 K/BB) and his G/F ratio is 2.2. He'd be a winner. The downside? Rookie. Not gonna happen.
Next, and becoming much more likely is Shawn Camp. Great G/F Ratio. Does walk a bit more than you'd want, but his K rate is in the 6 range. He's got 5 years under his belt, and most of the stats have been pretty steady, so we could expect more of the same here. He has a very reasonable contract, and I don't think he is a huge asset to Toronto at this point, so I think we could get him for a VERY reasonable price.
The last guy is Jim Johnson of Baltimore. He's got very similar numbers to Shawn Camp, but is a 3 year player. Very small contract, and is 4th in the AL in Holds (dumb stat but good for a quick glance). He tears up lefties for being a RHP, with a .588 OPS against. He'd be a great target for the Rockies as well.
Ziegler (not likely), Camp, and Johnson should be guys we should be going after to make our bullpen more complete, and mixing this with the return of Corpas, and a possible solid Morales in the bullpen would make things much better moving forward for the Rox.
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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What are your feelings on George Sherrill?
I’ve had my eye on him since the Bedard trade.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
He was part of my inspiration
For this story. His G/F for his career is not quite desirable but he’s been a solid closer. He’s quite cheap too. I like the idea of getting a very low cost unknown guy.
by roxintober on Jul 14, 2009 12:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Sherrill would be a good acquisition.
The lefty was a stud for my fantasy team last year. MLBTR says he is also under team control thru 2011. The last place Orioles are 8 games under .500 and 14 games out of first. I’m not sure what they would want in return for their closer. Sherrill was part of the Bedard trade, but Adam “Don’t Call Me Pacman” Jones was the centerpiece.
"DAMMIT! No, calm down. Learn to enjoy losing." --Hunter S. Thompson
by PioneerSkies on Jul 14, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Orioles
need starting pitching. They like their line up for the most part, though it has some veterans they don’t know if they will keep, as they don’t have enough to make a run next year.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
I'm wondering if a Hynick type would get it done
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions
For which one?
Yes, Hynick would be a good fit, as would some of our B listers like Reynolds and Johnson…as the Orioles REALLY need major league starting pitching
Now…what about Roberts? He along with Markakis was to be the core of the Orioles (plus Weiters and Adam Jones)….but I’d love to have Roberts.
Roberts and Sherrill, and I’d give a lot for them.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Roberts is getting old, slow
and very expensive
this is a good point
I love his speed too, but he’s not getting any faster at this point in his career, becoming more prone to extended slumps.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 14, 2009 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I can't see it happening
I assume you mean Brian Roberts. I don’t see the Orioles trading Roberts after just signing him to an extension, and I don’t see the Rockies trading for him and paying the $10M AAV contract at a position where they actually have a couple of cheap alternatives.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Not that cheap, though
as he’s arb-eligible. If a team keeps him for 2010, he will likely be getting a raise from his current $2.75M. So I think they’d be giving up more than a Hynick in a trade and paying him. Pretty good benchmark, though, as getting a closer-quality guy to be your 8th inning guy would be a pretty solid 1-2 punch.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I feel like a lot of those names
would have inflated value. Johnson is probably going to close once Sherril gets traded. Ziegler is interesting but hasn’t been too bad this year and had an awesome year last year, I don’t think the A’s would really deal him.
I wonder if a guy like Chris Ray or Chris Britton could be fixed and effective…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
I wonder how David Aardsma would pan out
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
Walks too many batters but strands a lot of baserunners
hit or miss with him
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
sounds like a closer we used to have
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 14, 2009 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Fuentes worked out though and became an All star closer
this is someone who has been around for a couple of years, and finally put it together this year. You don’t know if it’s a fluke or if he’ll be consistent with the numbers Aardsma has put together this year, especially with the inconsistent control he has always had.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions
yea he isn't Fuentes yet
but he could be a Fuentes in the making but who knows
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 14, 2009 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions
i like Jim Johnson
seen him pitch a few times and looks like a solid RP
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
Yeah, he's very interesting
GB pitcher, throws gas (avg velocity = 94 over 2008-2009). One more slave year. He’s their setup guy now. How does he get his ground balls? pitch/fx doesn’t appear to show a sinker.
I think the question would be how bad do the Rockies need someone above the current group of castoffs and what are you willing to pay for someone like Johnson who would be both very good and cheap for another 2-3 years.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
By the way
I’m against trading for any relief pitchers unless they are solid and Atkins is included in the deal. It just sticks in my mind how much the Red Sox gave up for a half year of Gagne (who was supposed to be a Type A at that point) and then how he totally blew the deal for them and only got Type B. Trading for someone good enough for the 8th inning job costs too much and it just isn’t worth trading for a reliever who wouldn’t be able to handle the job. I’d rather keep up hopes on Corpas after the break and MAYBE a Herges signing just to get Belisle out of that bullpen. The only reliever I can just justify going for is Grabow to have a true LOOGY so that Morales won’t have that role and could take over the set up job or multiple innings in the 6th and 7th. However, I have no idea what Grabow would cost us because the first thing the Pirates ask us for is EY2, which isn’t happening so we’d have to work out something close to that value. I wonder if Daniel Mayora would be enough for them…..
Scratch that about Grabow
in the latest Elias formulas, he’s going to be a Type A, meaning the Pirates would lose in a Mayora-Grabow trade.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Why include Atkins?
Teams don’t seem to want him, and he has some value with the Rockies. If you’re goal is to dump his salary, then that detracts what you’ll receive in return.
Gagne was an example of how these deals can go wrong. The Sox gave up what were for them spare parts (a Hynick-ish extra AAA starter in Gabbard and a 4th OF type in David Murphy) for a reliever that was seen as cheap (in terms of trade value) because he was coming off an injury and headed to FA. He ended up pitching like Belisle for them.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Thanks for proving my point
I wouldn’t give almost anything from the Rockies farm system in a deadline trade except for spare parts (Atkins) or blocked prospects (Mayora). Atkins does have some value (remember the discussions for Saito?), which if packaged with the right prospect, could net us something that would improve our bullpen. At this point, it doesn’t matter about the salary; the Rockies have it have it in their budget to pay him, and we’re not adding anything that would raise salary.This however, is in fair world, for as you said, most teams don’t want Atkins except for crap and if the Rockies did want something good like Sherrill, they’d have to overpay and take a risk and pay the price if a repeat of Gagne happened, which shouldn’t (and most likely won’t) happen.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions
AKA
I would the Rockies just to stay entirely put at the deadline and win with what they have.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions
missing word?
“I would prefer”?
It’s possible. It will be interesting to see how Corpas responds and how Morales settles in. Morales seems to have the stuff.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Yep, my bad.
If the Rockies get a LOOGY, I could see the Rockies bullpen settle like it did in 2007, with Corpas in the 7th, Morales in the 8th, and Street in the 9th, much like Hawkins, Fuentes, and Corpas, which made our bullpen one of the best in the majors despite some scrap heap bullpen guys in it. Morales has responded well to the move to the bullpen, and has the stuff to do well in the setup role. Corpas hasn’t quite pitched well enough for the set up role, so the 7th should be good for him like it was for Hawkins. A future LOOGY could come in for the leftys, Peralta against rightys, Rincon can be middle relief, and Fogg for the long relief. It could all work out very nicely if Corpas is all right off the DL, and Morales has already proven himself a good member of the bullpen.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 14, 2009 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
If he meant helping out this year (which I'm pretty sure he did)...
then Buchholz won’t be of any help (out with Tommy John surgery until next year’s All-Star Break at least).
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 14, 2009 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I have a different conclusion
Gagne was coming off a horrendous injury. His K rate had dropped off dramatically and he had the benefit of a careful workload in Texas. This is what you have to consider if you decide to go for the inexpensive guy (in trade terms) instead of a more quality reliever—a much higher flameout rate. I think Sherrill is a lot closer to the quality, reliable guy than Gagne, not that he should necessarily be their target.
The biggest cost an equivalent to Gagne would cost the Rockies is the opportunity cost (well, and obviously the games he blows when he’s in there). I don’t see them picking up a bunch of guys from a scrap heap and then running a few out there, giving them each a chance to prove themselves..they’ve already been doing this with Grilli, Daley, Peralta, Rincon and now Morales.
Re. Saito, sure there were discussions, but there’s no way of knowing whether Sox agreed to trade him for Atkins. I have a really hard time believing they’d go for that.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Problem with Ziegler and Meredith
Is that like a lot of submariners/sidearmers, they’re very nearly ROOGY’s. If one of those guys came very cheaply, I think they’d work in the mix-n-match approach that Tracy is currently using. However, I think the Rockies need a guy they can rely on w/o having to rely on matchups.
Ziegler’s career lefty/righty splits:
vs. RHP: .212 BA, .258 OBP, .254 SLG
vs. LHP: .302 BA, .394 OBP, .432 SLG
Meredith’s career splits aren’t as extreme but are still pretty subtantial:
vs. RHP: .254 BA, .295 OBP, .339 SLG
vs. LHP: .316 BA, .379 OBP, .411 SLG
And he’s been pretty bad against all batters this year. OTOH, Meredith will be arb-eligible next year and has fallen down several slots of their bullpen, so he might come cheaply, and might be worth a flier if the Rockies wanted to try to use him as a ROOGY type.
I think it’s getting late in the season to do the “let’s try this guy” approach, though, since it takes a number of appearances to assess whether you trust or give upon a guy.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Baltimore doesn't need starting pitching...
…well, at least yet. They have 3 of the best prospects in the minors: Tillman, Matusz and Arrieta. I actually think they’ll be the next Tampa. Well, after Tampa is Tampa, and Texas is the next Tampa, then Baltimore would be the next Tampa. Like the Rockies, who before that were the next Colorado, which was Tampa…
Anyway, I like Jim Johnson. He’s young, although I do believe he had some arm surgery prior to last season (correct me if I’m wrong). Regardless, he’s done quite well over the past season and a half. Would Baltimore want to trade a guy with 4 more controlled years? Questionable. As someone above mentioned, they might look to trade Sherrill and let Johnson close instead. But if you offered them enough… It’s worth a phone call.
Would Atkins for Johnson be terrible? I don’t think so. Melvin Mora is getting old (37), and playing poorly this year. Atkins is an upgrade for sure, and he’s arbitration controlled for next year. Mora has a club option for next year, which Baltimore could decline (it’s a club option). Mora is making $9 million this year. The more that I say about this, the more sense it makes to me.
Atkins is making $7.05 this year, and coming off a bad year, will be lucky to get a one year deal at that next year in arbitration. I think you might have to work a PTBNL into it one way or the other depending upon who wines effectively, but it’s a trade I’d try to make, and I think it makes sense for both clubs.
I think there's less than zero chance they trade Johnson or Sherrill for Atkins
The might give you Baez for Atkins, but I doubt either team would be interested in that deal. Even if they liked Atkins, they could just wait for the inevitable non-tender and sign him for less.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
ARTHUR RHODES
My vote is for Arthur Rhodes, still has plenty in the tank, lefty with power arm and experience to boot.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
SEASON 0 0 1.78 38 0 0 0 0 0 30.1 18 7 6 2 0 4 25 171 1.05 0.91
CAREER 79 61 4.16 752 61 5 3 32 65 1076.2 942 520 498 113 14 481 1058 236 1.32 0.95
Delcarmen or Bard
I think Manny Delcarmen or Daniel Bard would be AMAZING in the pen, and if Boston seems interested in having Atkins play with Lowell, I hope we can figure out a deal for that.
Jim Johnson is a dream. I think there is NO way Baltimore trades him before Sherrill.
I was just reading MLB Trade Rumors, and a bunch of fartards in the comments think the Rocks would trade Casey Weathers, EY Jr or Seth Smith. Trading any one of those guys should also come with Dan O’Dowd’s resignation.
Dream on about Boston's pen
They said it would cost the Nationals, Nick Johnson plus another for Delcarmen, and Bard is worth even more to them. So I’m thinking they ask Atkins + Weathers at the very least, maybe even more for one of those two guys.
TBH, EY2 has mostly only driven up his value this year; before this season, BA ranked him as a third tier prospect, so that’s what fans of other teams see him as. Most of the Pirates fans on MLBTR were wondering why the hell Huntington “coveted” him in the first place. Trading Weathers now would be just plain dumb, because he’s way undervalued due to his Tommy John surgery, and if anyone goes first in the outfield, it’s Spilborghs, not Smith, who has more value, and because Spilborghs has a handmade replacement in Murton.
Don’t forget, most other fans of other sports teams follow ESPN bias and view the Rockies’ organization as crap.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Only thing to remember
is that Spilborghs has shown to be a decent CF, and I’m p sure Murton can only handle the corners effectively.
UZR suggests he’s a good defensive LF, and an average RF. All subject to SSS as well.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, to be honest, if Spilly can play center, we have 3 CF on the roster
so he’s still replaceable. And Smith has shown he is the 2nd best hitting outfielder on the Rockies right now (apologies to Fowler), and Smith is the one of only 2 left handed outfielders on our roster, the only backup, considering Hawpe starts everyday. If you replaced Smith with Murton, Hawpe would be the only lefty.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I personally would rather trade off Gonzalez
And I think Smith should be starting every day. I don’t think Murton should replace him at all.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
I think he's lost value
I mean, he’d be moving to his 4th organization, and it’s too early to give up on him. If he gets Delcarmen, Sherrill, or Bard, sure, but I would rather not entertain him as trade bait.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions
But at the same time, look at the guys he's been traded for
Dan Haren and Matt Holliday. Much as he’s being traded, we do have an outfield glut that we could rationalize a trade with. I just hope he hasn’t lost as much value as Sean Gallagher had.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
He put up awesome numbers at Triple-A
That’s gotta account for something, he hasn’t been injured like Gallagher, and provides awesome defense from any outfield position. I just think he lost a little value because he hasn’t figured it out with the bat at MLB level yet. He’s still only like 23, 24, and has time too.
The more I think of a CarGo for Bard trade, the more I like it.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
So it would end up
Holliday for Street, Bard, Smith?
Does that still add up alright?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Holliday for lights out in the 8th and 9th inning?
I’ll take it.
Especially for someone who would’ve left in free agency this year.
And Bard was a pretty damned good prospect before he started performing this year
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
fair enough
I’m not arguing, just putting the pieces together.
given his floundering play in Oakland, I’m ok with the way this turns out.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 17, 2009 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
No problem trading Carlos. Before his value diminishes.
Our CF of the future is Dex. Corner OFers are easy enough to come by. Flip him for a bullpen arm.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 16, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
if they do, they need to do it fast
Because in 2 years it’s gonna be moot.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Aren't you guys being harsh on CarGo?
This guy could end up with a way better bat than Smith, has a better glove, and is showing improvement at the plate, which is coming from giving him at bats. 84 AT bats is way too small of a sample size to judge whether CarGo will work out as a Rockie. He could get hot at any given time this year and be more of an asset than Smith will ever be. Trust me, I like Smith. He’s a good ballplayer, but CarGo could be so much better….most Rockies fans are giving up way too early on him.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't forget to include his non-performance at Oakland also.
And you say “could” when referring to him. I’m for the here and now. We can be in a race for a wild card spot and I’d rather have the proven commodity and another bullpen arm.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
you raise good points
I’m seeing the NOW rather than tomorrow. We have 2 young outfielders in Dex and Smith and a good 4th in either Spills or Murton, maybe both.
I’m not giving up on Gonzalez so much as saying “how long do we waste outs and don’t get runs by having him in the lineup? We’re winning, why would we throw away outs?”
I’m not NECESSARILY saying trade him off. But if Smith is the better plate appearance, the better bat, he needs to be starting and Gonzalez needs to be on the bench or back in AAA.
We’re past the point of “could” now. We need to start doing our best. Were this team in the shape it was in 2006, a bunch of sophomore players with a few veterans sprinkled in for good luck with a Nationals chance of winning, then sure, start Gonzalez all you want, no big deal.
But seeing how we’re doing now, I’m not gonna come into this gunfight with one of my chambers loaded with a blank.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 17, 2009 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions
most other fans of other sports teams follow ESPN bias and view the Rockies’ organization as crap.
Well, to be fair, I think a lot of Denver fans think that too.
But if you are looking at the Rockies side and who they have to offer, I think Spillborghs is the #1 guy. He can play multiple positions, and is replaceable with Murton. After that actually it gets a little iffier. A border line starter like Greg Smith or Reynolds? Eric Young jr or maybe even Barmes? Who can the Rockies trade for a reliever, that doesn’t hurt the Rockies future, or might be a good reliever them selves (Hynick or Deduno)?
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
What if we moved, say, Reynolds
and Atkins and Cash for George Sherrill?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
No way they accept that
They want a future closer to replace him, as I hear.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
reynolds could be!
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Ok, you tell me when Reynolds somehow acquires closer stuff
when he was at his best, people said he’d be a 2 or 3, now it’s more like a 5 if he ever makes it.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
iunno, he has a good change, doesn't he?
Trever Hoffman did it
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 16, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Trevor Hoffman used to have a power fastball, didn't he though?
by bballrox4717 on Jul 16, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
ok I gotta apologize
I’m totally messing around with you
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
You're p funny
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 16, 2009 11:54 PM MDT up reply actions
ohhhhhhhhhh
I’m remembering an old Mariners ad where Jamie Moyer was pitching, and he throws a ball and it goes crawling into the plate in slow motion, and the catcher asks the batter “you gonna swing at that? looks pretty good” and the batter says “I don’t know, it looks a bit outside” and the ump says “I’ll be the judge of that”
The ball finally hits the glove, and the ump rings up the batter, and Moyer looks at the plate with a sense of satisfaction and says “Put som’thin’ Extra on that one”
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 17, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
That is awesome
even better than the Rockies ones
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 19, 2009 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions
mariners ads are hilarious
I think they have more fun with their team than any other franchise
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
When it comes to trades, most fans suggest one-sided ones
in favor of their team.
Someone suggested on a mlbtraderumors thread that the Rockies trade Atkins for Bard. Bard is a rookie and throws 98. Even if he doesn’t develop into a closer, that’s a good reliever who has 2 slave years plus 3 arb years left. Of course the Sox value him highly, as would any team.
Jim Johnson is similar, except he’s a little more established but has one slave year left. Guys like that are very valuable.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Alas, should have read the rest the thread
When the trade changed to CarGon for Bard.
Rule of thumb—if you envision a trade and it’s easy for you to give up your team’s players and you’re excited about the other team’s players, you need to take a serious second look.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
for example?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 17, 2009 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
For Example:
“Would Atkins for Johnson be terrible? I don’t think so.”
“I think Manny Delcarmen or Daniel Bard would be AMAZING in the pen, and if Boston seems interested in having Atkins play with Lowell, I hope we can figure out a deal for that.”
“The more I think of a CarGo for Bard trade, the more I like it.”
Atkins for Johnson of course wouldn’t be terrible…for the Rockies. Maybe the poster left out the other substantial person the Rockies would include for Delcarmen. I doubt the Sox would trade Bard in anything but a ridiculous trade because a) the Epstein regime has blown a lot of dollars going after free agent middle relievers and now they finally have a good, cost-controlled guy, and b) he is their Papelbon insurance. And of course we’d like a CarGo for Bard trade.
This one’s closer:
“What if we moved, say, Reynolds and Atkins and Cash for George Sherrill?”
Except Sherrill is not a FA after 2009, right? Reynolds was a disappointment, then has been hurt most of the year. Atkins has little if any more value to the O’s than Mora does, as he still would make a lot via arb if they opted to keep him for 2010.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Fooman- this why I didn't want the Rockies to trade for a reliever in the first place
including the Rockies, teams value their players more than they really should be valued.
With Corpas back, Morales in the pen, and some actual insurance in Herges, the 25 man roster should not be changed. Yeah, and that’s including Atkins, because McCoy and Ortmeier do not belong on a playoff roster, especially if one of Helton or Stewart gets hurt. Just leave everything the way it should be, and the Rockies will improve. They’re learning from their mistakes from the first half.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 17, 2009 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions
teams valuing own players too much
I think this is truer for fans than actual teams, unless you are arguing that the Red Sox and Orioles are valuing their very good, pre-arb relievers too highly, in which case I disagree (in terms of these proposed trades, I obviously don’t know what the teams would actually trade them for).
I think what you are getting at, though, is that it’s risky to trade for a reliever. I would add unless it’s a very good reliever (that is, someone better than Herges), but even then, the risk is there because of how few innings a reliever pitches. And expense, of course. It could be the right move and not improve the team much.
They do have a need for set up guy, esp. considering there are some real high leverage late inning situations that closers are almost never used for. Perhaps Corpas can return to his June performance levels and Morales will really be a hit. There’s just under 2 weeks of games left to see if the team can get a read on that.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Sherrill-Angels rumor
The rumor in this LA Times article was linked at MLBTraderumors. If there’s any sort of accuracy in it, it shows the problem the Rockies will have in trading for a good reliever.
Supposedly the Orioles “so far are asking for two top prospects for Sherrill.” If they really mean the sort of players who are top 2-3 in a system, they won’t even come close.
Sherill is pretty good, but he doesn’t strike me as being as good as Fuentes or Street, who are themselves beneath that top tier of closers. He has two arb years left after 2009 (I thought it was just one before). He asked for 3.4 million in arb and settled for 2.75. So if he remains a closer, 2010 and 2010 might go for what, $8-9 million total? That’s not much of bargain compared to getting a good setup guy via free agency.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
The Orioles seriously overvalue their players and it just showed in an example today in which
31 year old Oscar Salazar, who has 133 AB at the MLB level and has been flipped around organization to organization was traded for 26 year old Cla Meredith of the Padres. Yeah, seriously bad overdeal for the Padres; while Meredith kind of was regressing, he’s always had a solid BB/9 and groundout %, which helps him succeed.
Trading Salazar for Meredith would’ve actually been worse than the Rockies trading Quintanilla for Meredith, as while his bat is horrible- below average, his glove his actually amazing, putting him at higher value than Salazar, who is older and should never play an infield position. Could you imagine the joy Rockies fans would have if we got that trade done? Exactly.
I remember exactly what you said FooMan- that any deal that where one can’t wait to get rid of a player to bring a useful one in return is a bad idea; well that’s what the Orioles are doing with their players. With the Oriole’s deal for Meredith as a start for such discussions for their players, they might seriously demand Ian Stewart or Esmil Rogers in a deal for Sherrill, which reeks of what the Nationals attempted to pull off on the Rockies for Tim Redding during the deadline last year, who had been league average that season, in which they demanded Ian Stewart in such a deal. While one can’t blame MacPhail for asking a ton for his players, there are indications that he might seriously ask for two top prospects (like I say top 5, not 2 or 3) in return for Sherrill, and any of these talks should go absolutely nowhere with the Orioles. Chad Qualls and Heath Bell or not options as well; Arizona and San Diego would hold us to a higher ransom for their players because it is in-division trading, and fans there would hate to see that happen anyways. So, what other options are there if Sherrill, Qualls, and Bell prove too costly? Pretty much zero which would be worth trading away prospects of the Rockies. This is why I have been so solid on the idea that the Rockies should do nothing on the deadline and stick to what they have.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 19, 2009 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Can't blame the O's
they’re probably still riding high off the fumes of their Bedard trade. Too bad Bavasi’s gone, we shoulda hustled him out of some players. Maybe we can still hustle the Astros…. if they have anyone decent in their farm…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Meredith has been pretty bad
The last two seasons. Plus he can’t get lefties, which makes him a situational guy. I can see why he didn’t bring much value in return.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
but he's worth more than a crappy 31 year old AAAA player
that’s for sure.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 20, 2009 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions
i don't disagree with this analysis
because I’m p sure we do it as well.
I’m more concerned about the rest of the division adding and us getting left in the dust.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
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