Rockies Review: Welcome to the 50-win club, boys
Yep, it's official. After their 6-1 dispatching of the Friars today, our purple pinstriped heroes have crossed the threshold into a fairly exclusive club. As was pointed out in the game thread, that makes the heavyweight AL East and.... NL West? the only two divisions in baseball to boast three fifty-game winners apiece. Without anyone managing to notice, the NL West is the NL Worst no longer. (Although if the Giants would go back to fulfilling their part of the bargain, I'm sure we would all be grateful). In pulling to within a half-game of the wild card lead and sporting the Majors' winningest pitcher in the form of the Staten Island Stud, collecting his twelfth victory today after an eight-inning, one-run effort, the Rockies merited exactly...
zero mentions on the front pages of either MLB.com or SI.com. Raise your hand if you're surprised.
Yep, I thought so.
Where does baseball's most ignored 50-game winner go from here? Coming out of the break on the road, against the creampuff Padres, there was real opportunity for a letdown. Was the momentum from the dramatic 8-7 victory against Atlanta going to carry over, or was everyone going to think that they were still on the beach? Since we've seriously entered the discussion as contenders (well, at least I think we have, since John Kruk's opinion, as always, counts for slightly less than a fart in the wind) it's no longer acceptable to just hope for splits. Winning three-gamers is easier than winning four-gamers, particularly on the road. The Rockies drew out the suspense as long as possible. After being stifled by the mighty Kevin Correia and Padres pen in a 3-1 defeat, they faced highly touted prospect Mat Latos today. As PF mentioned in the game wrap, it's the sort of game they would have lost not so long ago. But this is a new team now.
At least. We think so. If you get on them on the right day. And squint.
But you don't need to squint to see the numbers. Here are just a few:
Overall Record Since June 4: 30-10 (!)
Jason Marquis: 12-6, 3.49 ERA
Aaron Cook: 9-3, 3.85 ERA
Ubaldo Jimenez: 7-9, 3.82 ERA, 111 K
Huston Street: 3-1, 2.68 ERA, 23 SV/24 SVO
Todd Helton: .324 (6th in NL), 10/57, .936
Brad Hawpe: .325 (5th in NL), 15/61, .987
Ian Stewart: 17 HR, 47 RBI, .220 AVG, 27 BB, 65 K
Troy Tulowitzki: 16 HR, 37 RBI, .251 AVG, 41 BB, 69 K
Chris Iannetta: 10 HR, 35 RBI, .222 AVG, 28 BB, 50 K
Team BA: .258 (9th NL, 20th MLB)
Runs Scored/Game: 5 (2nd NL, 6th MLB)
Runs Allowed/Game: 4.5 (8th NL, 14th MLB)
Team HR: 106 (2nd in NL, 7th in MLB)
Team ERA: 4.30 (9th MLB, 17th MLB)
Pitcher Walks: 288 (2nd NL, 4th MLB)
Find out what to make of these numbers after the jump.
So, what's to get from these stats? A number of contradictions, actually. First, our front three -- Marquis, Cook, and Jimenez -- are made of solid awesome, notwithstanding Cook's recent struggles with his sinker. I'm sure someone a bit more stat-savvy than I am can dig up the last time the Rockies had three starters with sub-4 ERAs, but in my experience, it feels like this may be a first. The number I found the most surprising, however, was the walk ranking. Did anyone realise that we've allowed the 2nd fewest walks for a staff in the NL, and fourth fewest overall? I sure didn't.
These numbers also highlight the occasional misadventures by the bullpen, as we're only 9th NL/17th MLB in team ERA, but we're solidly middle-of-the-pack when it comes to allowing runs: 8th/14th. But continuing the trend of getting no recognition, we've got as solid a starting rotation as any in the game. Add in the fact of our hitter-friendly home park (which Jason Hammel is alone in still not figuring out) and you'd think that someone would take notice of what our pitchers are doing. But nope, our offensive contributions are discounted and our pitching contributions go completely ignored. Argh. They'll have to notice us when we win the World Series, right?
The other caveat is the offensive numbers. We've got plenty of power, as evidenced by the overall homer ranking and the fact that we have six starters (Barmes, Helton, Tulowitzki, Hawpe, Iannetta, and Stewart) in double figures, but hitting for average is lacking. We rank 19th in MLB, and I couldn't help but notice the steep drop-off in today's lineup after cleanup hitter Hawpe (.325): Tulowitzki (.252) Stewart (.225) Iannetta (.222) Gonzalez (.213) and Marquis de Studly (.231). Three of the five have contributed to that double-figures HR club while simultaneously investigating the Mendoza line, so we're attempting to turn into a team of Adam Dunns. Not that this is entirely a bad thing, per se, but as no doubt everyone in baseball is already aware, counting on a homer, or trying for one, when all you need is a solid base hit, will eventually backfire on you and you'll turn into Jeff Francoeur. (This is a bad thing).
It seems strange, I know, to be carping on the offense after a four-game series win on the road, including a game where we scored 10 runs, at night, in the hitters' paradise known at PETCO Park. But now that the second half is well and truly underway, and we're in the mix, everything needs to be scrutinized more closely than usual. "Pretty good" is no longer acceptable. Where we need to take good and make it better. It's time to acknowledge good results, then turn straight around and ask for something better. It's time, in short, to become -- well, not bitchy and unsatisfied, but realising that "okay" isn't going to cut ice. This is best exemplified in my favorite quote from a Rockies manager in a long time, Jim Tracy on Ubaldo Jimenez after his Friday night start:
"[Jimenez] is inches away from being a very special player, but we're not there yet." Tracy said. "[He needs to] get to the point where the mindset is such that when you build a 5-1 lead, there's very little doubt as to where the game is headed. That's what we're working on."
Now, I don't know about you, but I almost did a spit-take when I read that quote. A manager taking note of performance, rewarding a good effort but recognizing the need for improvement? A Colorado Rockies manager? Am I in bizarro universe? If it is, don't turn off the transponders. I'll stay here, thanks. While Troy Renck may be overstating the galvanizing effect that Tracy's had on this club, I think it's safe to say that it's been a very, very definite one. Anyone think that we'd be sitting at 50-42, considering the start we had, if Hurdle was still at the helm? That's serious, by the way, not facetious.
The change in mindset is everywhere. Further proving that Purple Row is ahead of the mainstream media, there's an article on the Rockies official site today about how Carlos Gonzalez's "intangibles" outweigh the fact that he's, you know, completely overmatched at the plate. It asks the question of how long a contending team can accept intangibles in place of quantifiable production. Now, not to toot my own horn or anything, but the Review I wrote last week already asked that question. Tracy remarks that while sending CarGo down, or benching him, would probably be counterproductive, he can't ignore what Seth Smith's done, and if you want to be "one of eight teams playing baseball in October," you can't keep staffing your lineup with the equivalent of David Ecksteins. Gonzalez is a toolsy and exciting player who can make stuff happen (see today, as he got on, got to second, stole third, and scored on a bad throw) but as a left fielder, he doesn't occupy a premium defensive position and has already struck out 27 times in 94 at-bats. I think that the organization as a whole is pushing for immediate returns from him, as proof that we "got something" from the Holliday trade, but they can just as easily point to Huston Street, who has been making the ninth inning a lot more pleasant experience than I remember it being with Fuentes. I don't support demoting Gonzalez, exactly, but I don't think that he should receive the lion's share of the starts just on principle.
So, after it all, here we sit at 50 wins, having just taken 3 of 4 from a bad team on the road. That's a good start to the second half and the playoff chase. What comes next? For a start, the upcoming homestand against the Diamondbacks and Giants is absolutely crucial. We need to put the screws to the D-backs in the way we failed to do last time, and as the Giants are shaping up to be our main competition, we need to beat them in the head-to-head contests and not just rely on, for example, the Pirates to help out. Then we have another long road trip: four games against the seriously underwhelming Mets, three against the mediocre Reds, and a tough three-gamer against the NL East-leading Phillies in the bandbox of Citizens Bank Park. Last time we were there, we yakked up 20 runs to them. In one game. That, uh, needs to not happen again.
I, for one, am genuinely pleased with the Rockies' performance thus far. I really am. I'm looking forward to an exciting stretch run and playoff chase, and I feel good about the essential makeup of the club.
That doesn't mean, however, that I won't be looking for them to do better.
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those costume guys in the picture
look like they are fornicating.. and tulo’s like, “wrap it up boys”
The full version
of the photo doesn’t make it appear like that, but yeah, the ways it’s cropped is funny.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
i lol'd
if you're reading this, it means my undying support for your team will result in its failure.
by fantasyfencing on Jul 19, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Really looking forward to the Mets series.
Sitting in right field during the Monday game, and on Wednesday I’ll be meeting TuLoRocks2008 and moomacher for the game. Moomacher and I’ll be two rows in front of TuLoRocks2008 and his friend in the promenade.
And it’ll be a good time to advertise Purple Row as I’ll wear my PR shirt both days.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
You, Moomacher and TuLoRocks2008 are going to the Mets series?
Same here dude! July 29th behind home plate ftw
by bballrox4717 on Jul 19, 2009 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions
I will be there July 28th
in the nosebleeds down the 3rd base line. I guess I am the only one going Tuesday.
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 19, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions
If anyone else is going Tuesday July 28th
I would be willing to meet some other Rockies fans (a rarity out here).
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 19, 2009 8:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Shoot me an e-mail
if you want to meet up with us somewhere in Citi Field.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
crapcrapcrap
I keep forgetting about this.
How much were the tix in right field? Ill get one for the Wednesday game.
Also, I’m glad the Rockies don’t get noticed, it means I know I can still get tickets a week before the game…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
I have right field tickets on Monday.
$50 for a seat there. Promenade are $25 but I got two tickets at a cheaper price on StubHub.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 19, 2009 9:28 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
ah mixed up the days
25 for promenade tickets on wed? count me in.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
We're in section 510.
There are probably tickets still available there.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 19, 2009 9:35 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
got a row?
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
See if 11 or 13 have seats open.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 19, 2009 10:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Roger that
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
yea stub hub is cheaper
you can probably get tickets for 20 bucks after surcharges n all
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 20, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Gotta vote for Tracy. He's taken a talented bunch of underachievers and stabilized the lineup.
And his handling of the pitching staff has been superb.
We’re gonna be hell to pay when we start hitting they way we can.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
I would consider sending CarGo down at this point
If Smith is going to get the starts (and he should be getting the starts), then send CarGo down to AAA for the next 6 weeks so that he can get some consistent ABs. Call up Murton, and hopefully have a recharged CarGo when September call-ups come around.
this.
I haven’t been a supporter of the Smith for President movement (cause if hes only going to get one hit and in the 7+ innings, why not just make him a PH and give those 1-6 ABs to someone else), but CarGo never really caught fire (eh, didn’t really even get lukewarm), whereas I feel Murton was really getting into a good groove when he was sent down.
if you're reading this, it means my undying support for your team will result in its failure.
by fantasyfencing on Jul 19, 2009 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions
because Smith walks a pile as well
He makes better use out of his outs than most of our other LF options.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Agree that Smith should get the lion's share of the starts.
I’m just not convinced that Carlos can handle ML pitching yet. But my golly, he can be electric when he gets on base as evidenced by his first inning episode today.
But we’re trying to make the playoffs. We need the 25 best players we can get. And Carlos isn’t proving he’s one of those guys yet, IMO.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
Look at the numbers
Murton is hitting .363 in AAA. If the Rockies weren’t in a pennant race then sure, roll CarGo out there every day and see what he does with 200-300 ABs. But Smith clearly deserves to start until at the very least, he cools off.
That being said, is it beneficial to CarGo to leave him sitting on the bench? Your only other choice it to split time with Dex and CarGo in center, and I don’t think that makes much sense. Clearly, you’re not going to bench Hawpe. I’m not saying give up on CarGo, but I think hitting the Springs for the next 6 weeks would be in his (and the team’s) best interest…
I agree
I’d love to see CarGo reach his potential and carry the team on his back all the way through October but we already have 1 toolsy outfielder figuring it out.
Murton and Smith could form a pretty awesome platoon in the OF. Based off their career numbers, they’d basically be an outfielder that puts up a .300/.380/.480 line. Also they both play above average defense in left field.
Do it!
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Plus Murton has shown he can hit at the ML level.
I just don’t know what more Carlos can learn in AAA though. He was hitting about what Murton is hitting at CS.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 19, 2009 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Arguement for leaving CarGo on the Rockies bench
CarGo has proved he can hit AAA pitching. If he stays on the Rockies he gets to take batting practice with Hawpe, and Helton, and learn. He gets spot starts, and pinch hits which allows him to see major league pitching. He also would be good for late game double switches as he’s better defensively then Smith or Hawpe
The flip side, is the thinking that for a young guy they need play everyday to learn and to progress. .
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
That shouldn't affect whether to send him down
It’s an option year, and since he’s already been down in the minors this year, it’s already an option year.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Right...
that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle of transactions:
An option is good for an entire year, not just a single transaction (you can shuffle a player up and down to the majors as many times as you want).
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 20, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Your flip side...
…Is my argument. I’m thinking he’ll benefit more from being in the Springs from now until September 1st. It’s not that long of a period of time (6 weeks). Murton deserves the call up. CarGo will benefit, doing as you all say, practicing hitting curve balls regularly in Co Springs.
i agree murton will benefit the club more right now
the pitching is keeping the infield defense busy, we have Dex to make up a lot of ground in the OF. Defense is not our problem right now, offense is, and Murton was batting .300/.462/.400 as a PH. I know I know SSS but still, it’s something to roll with.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Sure...
not sure what they’re gonna tell us, as they haven’t really translated into MLB numbers
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
A simple solution to the Carlos problem
Trade him with Hynick, Deduno, and Nelson for Cliff Lee? A boy can wish, can’t he.
Voted for Street
stability in the 9th inning for almost the entire season when half of our bullpen is injured is a godsend and we wouldn’t be in the race without him.
My thoughts exactly.
I was gonna post this same thing, pretty much. Street is The Man. Is there a good nickname for him? He deserves one.
Easy Street
Comes from a song in Annie, a famous musical.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 20, 2009 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I voted Marquis.
Clutch in the clutch. My Cubs fan friend told me that Good Marquis is good, but Bad Marquis is horrendous. So far, I’d have to agree…the days his stuff isn’t working, the Rox are buried by the third inning. But Good Marquis is really something special, and luckily for us, Good Marquis is around a lot more often than Bad Marquis.
Runner up is Huston Street. 23 of 24 is more than reliable, it gives the team confidence knowing they can count on their pitching in the 9th. That is CRITICAL!
Don’t get me wrong I love Hawpe and Todd – but the pitching has been special.
if you're reading this, it means my undying support for your team will result in its failure.
I guess I fall
into the category of “Can’t give my MVP vote to a pitcher.” That’s not to detract from what Marquis did in the first half, but I’d give him my pitcher of the first half of the season award.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
I ended up voting for Marquis anyway,
The team’s 13-6 record when he starts was just part of it because it seemed he’s played a huge role in each of those thirteen wins with either or both the bat and the arm. I think Hawpe’s closest otherwise, and nearly voted for him instead.
I voted for "Other"
Whoever finally pulled the trigger to fire Hurdle I think deserves the MVP.
Not that I think Hurdle was the cancer he gets made out to be, but I also don’t think Tracy is quite the savior with the healing touch.
I think just the simple process of managerial turnover and fresh perspective helped set in “reality” for this team that had been something like the best collection of underachievers around. Not to really undermine the job Tracy has done (I wish I could watch more games so I could have a better opinion on that), I think he’s done a good job but I think the real test for him will be managing this team next season should he be retained.
After this though, Brad Hawpe gets my vote.
Also,
John Kruk’s opinion, as always, counts for slightly less than a fart in the wind
Clearly, you don’t believe in the Butterfly Effect.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Hurdle
You’re spot on there, but I do hope that people recognize that Hurdle is a distant 2nd in the “Worst Rockies Manager” award category. Buddy Bell was by far the worst, in my opinion. How anybody thought it was a good idea to get a former Tigers manager at that time is beyond me. The greatest day of my life was when Buddy Bell was fired from the Rockies (NL Pennant notwithstanding).
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
Jim Leyland..
Was much worse than Buddy Bell or Clint Hurdle.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
I think Leyland would have been good
But he gave up after only one year.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
Wait a minute, I thought that the Mets were the best team in baseball
That’s what my TV tells me, anyway.
On a positive note, ESPNEWS did have a note on their “Breaking News” ticker on the bottom of the screen about the Rockies win and Marquis’ performance.
Gonzalez is one that I’m torn on at this point. Until Smith started hitting throughout the whole game, I was of the opinion that CarGo should be starting, despite the low average. The only way to learn to hit a big league breaking ball is to consistently face one. His defense is impeccable, and there’s not much he can gain outside of perhaps confidence from AAA.
However, it may be time to send him down. On one hand, the Rockies are 21-4 when he starts, so he obviously isn’t hurting anything, so maybe it’s still best to let him learn here as long as the team keeps winning. On the other hand, I don’t want his confidence to be wrecked, as he clearly has loads of talent (much more than that guy that we traded for him, IMO). The last thing that I want is for a talented guy from the Rockies to go on the DL with an “anxiety disorder” (which is code for “suck”).
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
People have been throwing around that "when Carlos starts the Rox are 21-4" making it sound like he's the reason.
He just happened to get called up at the right time. He’s not the reason. Solid pitching from the starters and great defense are the reason. Granted his defense is very good. But he is not the reason for the record.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
To be clear
I’m not meaning to say in any way that Gonzalez is the reason for the record. My point is this – if his play isn’t causing the team to lose, then I don’t see what it hurts to keep running him out there and let him figure out the breaking ball. If the team starts losing close games and he’s getting the golden sombrero every night, then it’s definitely time to make a change. Until then, I could go either way with it.
One thing that I would like to see is Barmes get a day off once a week or so. Slide Quintanilla into the 8-hole in the order and put him at 2nd base. Put Gonzalez in the 2-hole, and maybe he’ll see a few more fastballs hitting in front of Helton. Maybe he wouldn’t, but it may help him to display a little more plate discipline with the RBI guys hitting behind him. It could help him get a few more hits and gain some confidence. It would also save Barmes a bit, who I think tends to fatigue toward the end of a series, and there would certainly be no defensive dropoff with Q.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
Also
I’m fairly certain that Gonzalez, throughout his minor league career, has been a middle of the order guy. It may add to his comfort to see one or two starts a week hitting up in an earlier spot in the order. Familiarity is key to confidence.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
I didn't mean to intimate that you thought Carlos was the reason. Sorry about that.
I just keep hearing the media guys, especially the TV folks, continute to bring up the record when he starts.
I think with Smith starting, our offense could be much more than it is.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 19, 2009 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
That's what I thought you meant
But I thought that I’d just explain my position in further detail. I think that we’re pretty much on the same page here. I’m just trying to view it from all sides. I love Gonzalez’ talent, but any Avalanche fan knows to hate that statement after watching Tyler Arnason steal from our franchise over that past couple of seasons with his wasted talent. I don’t want to see Gonzalez turn into that, and by no means am I comparing the two. Just trying to make an analogy for talent that doesn’t develop.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
I think at this point
Cargo’s confidence is not going to be killed by getting 1-2 starts a week and being a late inning sub/pinch runner. He’s made it to the majors, and it seems at this point the best way to learn how to hit major league pitching is to face major league pitching. What does sending him down to hit hanging breaking balls in the Springs accomplish?h
More playing time for Q...
is never the answer.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
But less for Barmes...
…sometimes is.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
why
Yeah, Barmes is starting to slump a bit….but Q? Really? I’ve heard of addition by subtraction, but it’s not as if Q is a .750 OPS batter who can be a spot starter whenever, he’s not a very good batter, period.
Now if we want to give EYJ some love and call him up, rock and roll hoochie koo.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but
If Barmes is going to throw up a couple of 0-4 games a week, what would be the difference with putting Q in? I’d like to see Gonzalez moved up higher in an effort to get him some better pitches to hit once in awhile. As long as Q’s here, why not let Barmes rest once or twice a week?
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
Does he need to rest?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
If you can pick out the 0-4 games
Sure, sub in Q. But don’t accidentally pull any of Barmes’s 2-4 games.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
I think so
He’s playing more than he ever has, and I think that it tends to show now and then. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve loved watching Barmes this year, but I think that it would be a good thing to give him a day off now and then.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. If the Rockies should pull a couple games ahead of the Giants soon, then I think that Tracy should certainly look to get his regulars more rest than they get. Even still, Barmes tends to have one or two nights a week when he goes 0-4. Since Q’s the other 2B on the roster, put him in there. It can’t hurt anything. I’d say the same thing if it were Baker or anybody els in Q’s role.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
well either way Barmes needs to be out of the 2 hole
I like a 1-2 of Dex/Smith
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
That's intriguing
Either way, I don’t think that you can go wrong. I’d kinda like to see Smith’s OBP up top, then Dex in the 2-hole for now where he’ll see the fastballs more.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
I also like that
but then with 2 decent OBP guys, you might negate Dex’s speed by batting him behind smith. Not that he’s a total sloth, but he’s no Fowler.
Remember in AA it was EYJ-Dex-whoever, which is what I’d be looking at eventually. I like Dex as a 2 hitter.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I disagree--
Q, if given a chance could be an everyday player for some MLB team..(just not this one probably)..I believe when he gets regular AB’s (ala his fill in’s for Tulo last year and in 2007) he shows he can go line to line, and have decent speed. the power will never be much probably in the Majors, but the glove is a tick up from Barmes and a tick down from Tulo…Not bad to have as a back up eh?
I think he’s an easy mark for folks cuz he’s the 25th guy and the rarely used super utility whose rust shows when he gets the rare AB. As much as I like the guy and love having him on my team (I saw him and followed his early career from El Paso) I kinda hope he gets a chance to compete for a starting job on a club who will give him a decent shot.
Don’t get me wrong I understand that when he’s in that means some thing bad usually happened but I think the guys got the glove and bat to deserve to be on someones 25 man roster
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 20, 2009 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Also
the other day I was wandering through all the wonderful stuff at Fangraph’s and was noticing a lot of BABIP abnormalities with our players. I don’t remember the specifics but it would be stuff like Stewart having a BABIP of like .200 against righties or Iannetta having a really low BABIP away or something but being right where you’d expect him to be at home.
Again, don’t remember the specifics but I do remember a friend of my telling me a few years back (while discussing second-half turnarounds for players in fantasy) that “the all-star break is magic”
Hope our negatives regress to where they should be and our positives uhh.. don’t regress at all…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Has anybody ever looked at the negative hitting affect of Coors Field?
What I mean is, if a breaking ball doesn’t have as much movement at Coors Field, it will lead to more offense at Coors, but could also make it difficult for Rockies hitters to adjust to normal movement when they go on the road. We’ve always heard about the the horrible home/road splits for Rockies players as an excuse to discount them completely, but could those splits be exacerbated by the different environments? I’ve always suspected this, but have never had any good evidence.
There was a fanpost(?) here about a year ago on that topic..
you might have to do a search for it.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
voted for Bradley
but clearly, CarGo deserves it. I mean, come on, all you have to do is look at the W-L record with him starting to see that he is clearly the most valuable player. Right?
I decided on Street
but the real answer might really be a combination of A, B, and C. Huston’s just been nails. And like Silverblood, I’m no longer watching the ninth between my fingers.
As for the CarGo situation, I say send him down. He’s not getting any better on the bench, and at least for now, Tracy needs to ride the better bat. That’s clearly Smith. And the whole “record when he plays” doesn’t hold much mead with me. Since he’s been called up, what’s our record when Helton plays? or Hawpe? This resurgence is much bigger than one guy.
Now we abso-freakin-lutely must put the hammer down on the Snakes this week. No excuses. We cannot afford any let down against inferior opponents the rest of the season. Pedal to the metal, and all of those type of cliches. With San Fran coming in later in the week, we need to be riding high.
Free Seth Smith, damnit!
We cannot afford any let down againstinferioropponents the rest of the season.
We’ve got to accept the likely possibility that the Giants won’t fold and that we could very well be battling to the end. We know how good of a team we are, we need to be winning every series, not just the ones the stats and “experts” say we should win.
by Rockie4Ever on Jul 19, 2009 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
You are absolutley correct
My statement about “inferior” opponents simply stems for the Rockies’ somewhat glaring penchant to play down to the level of a sub-par team, rather than taking it to them. Maybe they caught that ailment from the Broncos, don’t know. But yes, we need to focus on winning series after series. If we can do that, we should be right where we want to be come October.
Free Seth Smith, damnit!
Hawpe is definitely MVP.
Not many thought he could carry this team and give us the numbers he has, day in and day out. He’s having a career year. Marquis is our Cy Young. ;)
With CarGon, it’s one of those situations that’s tough as a manager. He needs the experience at the big league level, but there comes a time in the season when you say, “We want to make a run at this, and we need you to take a back seat.” Put Smith in right now because he gives you the best chance to win. CarGon will get his chances still, and will see what he needs to do to start next year.
I watched him in Oakland, and he has all the tools while he’s in the OF. The thing that is lacking now is contact and power. He is a young player and will be very good in the near future, but right now we need Smith’s bat more than we need his defense.
-Joe
what about todd
not enough love for todd in this voting, I know hawpe / marquis / street/ ubal are having better seasons etc….
but
i think we all knew that hawpe would/should step up this year, and he has been doing so admirably
but helton was the real question mark this season, we needed a legit middle of the lineup bat post holiday with consistency to get us through the ups and downs of the tulos, stewarts, and ianettas. talk about todds splits or whatever, but he is the rock of this lineup, and without him hitting 300 and working the opposing starter every game I can not see us being this successful. he is our most proffessional hitter.
I would give the Starting Pitchers as a group the MVP award, but untill one of our starters is Roy Halladay, I cant vote for a pitcher for MVP
After reading your column, MLB.com ...
Moved the article: Major League leader Marquis wins 12th, to the front page. Way to go Silver!!
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
Dominating the walks..
If you’re looking for a reason the Rockies will make the playoffs this year, then look at their Base on Balls stat. These are two good stats to be leading:
- Rockies pitchers rank 2nd in the NL to St. Louis with 288 walks
- Rockies hitters rank 1st in the NL with 367 walks
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
Also to note..
The Giants are dead last in the NL in drawing walks at 205 and the Dodgers pitching staff is one of the worst at issuing walks at 352.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
well the Giants' bats are just awful anyhow
but good catch all the same.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
After much back and forth I voted Marquis
The turn around since Hurdle was let go has been amazing, however the MVP is the Most Valuable PLAYER not manager. Tracy for Manager of the Year in a second. Hawpe has lead theoffense all year even in the first couple of months before it was cool. In my opinion Helton’s play at first base, digging out throws from the fielders, is the number one reason why the Rockies have one of the best infields in the MLB. On top of that the way he is swinging the bat makes me want to go have back surgery. Street’s performance has been lights out. In all the years I have watched the Rockies I have never been more comfy with a 9th inning 1 or 2 run lead. Including when Fuentes was at his best.
In the end I have to go with Marquis. When the Rockies got him I thought it was just a stop gap measure because Francis was out. I was hoping he could eat some innings and if he won 10-12 games all year it would be a good year for him. Here we his first start after the all-star break and he leads the Majors with 12 wins. On top of that he is an all around athlete. He does not give up any at bats and he can score from 2nd on a single. I am really intrested to see if he can keep it going the second half of the season. If he can I can see him take the wins record by a Rockies pitcher (17) and maybe even get 20-22 wins.
One last question, for the Row Bots. What about packaging Carlos Gonzales in a trade for bullpen help? I know he is supposed to be this 5 tool future superstar, but the Rockies are really deep in the out field right now. Does anyone think that the fact that he is already with his third organization will limit his trade value? If not, I think that we could get more for him than some of our home grown guys. (Smith, Spilly and even Atkins right now) Yes I know he is supposed to be the future in the outfield, but for the Rockies the future us now. I think the Giants are feeling the purple pressure and I look for the Dodgers to come to earth because of their over used bullpen. In my humble, and probably biased, opinion I think the Rockies are one or two arms in the bullpen away from being the best most complete team in the NL. If Atkins and or CarCo can bring in those pieces I say lets pull the trigger.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
I think Gonzales
is an available piece in the right trade. I don’t think he’s off the table.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
I'd wager we'll see him in an offseason trade
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Why?
He’s still very cheap; he’s still pretty young; the tools still suggest he could be a potential five or six win player someday even if it’s unlikely at this point, the Rockies aren’t winning because of him, but they aren’t losing by hanging on to him, either. He adds defensive value. Why not keep him around unless somebody wants to offer us something we can’t turn down? To me it makes much more sense from a fiscal and potential return standpoint to deal Spilborghs and have Murton take his spot on the roster than it makes to deal CarGo. I think this is a case where I hope the team makes the smart move rather than listening to the roar of the crowds out here at PR.
All those reasons
is why I think he will have value, to other teams as well as to the Rockies. I agree it would be better to move Spilly, but for the right trade, if another team wanted CarGo, then I could see the Rockies considering it. I don’t see the Rockies actually pushing CarGo out the door…but he’s not irreplaceable.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
I post before finishing thoughts
If we are to trade him, then
I’d wager we’ll see him in an offseason trade
We kind of have a network of IfThen’s to work with now, and they all revolve around backing up positions, as we pretty much have our starters well defined.
If we move Spilborghs, we call up Murton and Gonzalez is the backup CF.
If we send down Gonzalez, we call up Murton and Spills is still the backup CF.
I’m not saying that we SHOULDN’T move Spilborghs, I’m saying it looks like we won’t. Spills is the better PH option at this point, as he knows how to take a pitch, and I’m concerned Gonzalez is Jeff Francouer 2.0 (and I’m just saying that a bit tongue-in-cheek, I haven’t really compared the two beyond SWINGSWINGSWING). Defensive contributions, sure, great, whatever. We’d only really sub him for Hawpe or Smith, and frankly, I’d rather sub Spilborghs at this point, as he knows the Coors Outfield.
Again, I’m not necessarily advocating JETTISON CARLOS GONZALEZ, but it’s looking like he doesn’t really have a starting spot until Hawpe is playing 1B full time, and the fact that his OPS is only about .030-.040 higher than Todd’s, it may not be for awhile.
I guess we’d be seeing an OF of Smith-Dex-Hawpe with a 4th/5th of Gonzalez and Murton moving forward, but how critical is that 5th OF? Can’t we rationalize having a Cory-Sullivan type there who’s not much better than a PR and a defensive sub? I mean, having 2 great hitting OF as your bench guys is obv better than nothing, but is it realistic?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
So what I'm saying is...
If you could have a great OF as your 5th bench guy because you have him locked in at the MLB minimum, wouldn’t you? Who cares if it’s realistic at that point, it’s what you’ve got. If he becomes that great, suddenly it’s easy to move Smith or even Hawpe in the right deal (and they would get much more at this point than CarGo/Spilly/Murton) and your great 5th OF is now a great starting OF. Even if we wind up holding on to him too long and have to deal him Jeff Baker-like for a bullpen arm, it’s worth the potential reward of a 5 or 6 win player. You don’t have that potential with holding onto “the better PH option at this point”, neither Spilly nor Murton will contribute that much. So as long as you have that 5th OF spot and a guy that could become great, you might as well keep him.
This is where I am with the current roster as well, I see little point in sending CarGo down to AAA, he has nothing more to prove down there. Let’s let him work toward a solution here, but in fewer AB’s.
I'm not saying get rid of CarGo...
…but I’d rather see him be fresh in September, when (if he is sent down), he’ll definitely be up in the bigs. I’m fearful of him barely playing over the end of July, August AND September. There is a window of opportunity (now through the end of August) where he could go down to the Springs and get regular work in, and stay fresh for September. Murton can come up and sit on the bench, like CarGo is doing now.
Right now
The only reason I would say trade Gonzales right now is becuase I think the Rockies could get more for him right now. Teams may be scared off by the fact that he is supposed to be a 5 tool player but is already with his 3rd organization but then again maybe not. The Rockies may end up loosing out down the road because they could have kept him cheap, but if the move helps the Rox to a division win then I think me as a fan would get over it.
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
Marquis hands down
I understand the arguments that it can’t go to a pitcher, or that he doesn’t even have the best stats or WAR on the team (Jimenez) – but his contributions have been pivotal.
To wit: when acquired, he was expected to fill the 3rd slot in the rotation, potentially 4th. We all knew what to expect after several slightly above average years. The amount he has overachieved those expectations has contributed more to the team winning than anyone. We didn’t sink when Cook was struggling, in part due to Marquis. He’s saved the maligned bullpen by consistently pitching deep in games. Then shudder to think what the rotation would be without him all year. Sure, Morales now, but when he was hurt? Hirsh? Ugh.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 20, 2009 9:05 AM MDT reply actions
Marquis and the numbers
I don’t think you have the apologize for going against the numbers, as I think a case is there for Marquis anyway. I understand why fangraphs uses FIP in their WAR for pitchers (at least the part where they reason that defensive contributions show up under the position players’ WAR), but as you know, FIP strips out a lot more than just fielding contributions. Even when it comes to converting a high proportion of batted balls into outs – sometimes that’s the pitcher, and one could make a case that that’s part of Marquis’s success this year. That is, some of that low BABIP is his achievement, rather than the fielders’.
Then there’s the consistency from start to finish (the question was phrased as “MVP of the first half”), and Marquis has thrown an extra 8.2 innings, which means 8.2 fewer innings thrown by the pen.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

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