Monday Rockpile: Time to face the Snakes again, and NL West Roundtable Part I
Marquis, Rockies sparkle in San Diego, beat Padres 6-1 - The Denver Post
High praise for Jason Marquis.
Infield pride running deep with Rockies - The Denver Post
Ian Stewart believes that when all is said and done, the Rockies' infield will be the best one this year.
Inside the Colorado Rockies " Diamondbacks Arrive Without Felipe Lopez
Good. He won't be able to unexpectedly hit two home runs in any of the three games, unlike what he did in the first game of the season.
2009 Trade Deadline Preview: Arizona Diamondbacks - MLB Daily Dish
MLB Daily Dish continues its Trade Deadline preview with the Snakes.
Giants majority owner Burns dead at 58 - FOX Sports on MSN
Our condolences.
Join me after the jump to read the NL West roundtable.
The SBN NL West bloggers conducted this roundtable over e-mail and finished it right before the All-Star Game.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which teams, under which circumstances, will be buyers over the next three weeks? How about sellers? If there are any undecideds, what will be the tipping point?
Russ Oates (Purple Row): Unless the Rockies fall out of the gate after the All-Star Break, they won't be selling off any players. Oh, how far the Rockies have come since mid-May when it looked like they would be sellers! They'll be moderate buyers, not looking to make a huge splash, but not looking to do exactly nothing.
Dex Bustarde (Gaslamp Ball): I've never liked the "buyer" and "seller" tags. For example, I think the Giants should be acquiring as fast as possible and in the process, may be actively trying to move guys for value. The Dodgers are doing so well right now that they should be thinking of being in buyer mode just to ensure they have pitching for a proper World Series run. The Padres will try to sell for value. Nobody's safe on the team at this point. I wouldn't be completely surprised to see Adrian Gonzalez moved before the 2010 season.
Grant Brisbee (McCovey Chronicles): Yeah, the move from "Wait 'til 2010" to "buy, buy, buy!" came quickly for the Giants, and I'm on board. I don't think there's a hitter worth one of the top four prospects (Bumgarner, Alderson, Villalona, Posey) but I think there's a way to shore up the right side of the infield without burning down the farm.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): We've been putting up the 'For Sale' signs since Bob Melvin got fired. The only place we might be looking to acquire any players with major-league experience is perhaps the bullpen, but having sold Tony Peña for a prospect, even that seems less likely.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): What holes will teams be looking to fill? What are the biggest holes they *SHOULD* be looking to fill but don't seem to be concerned about? Which holes from the first half can be plugged internally, perhaps by improvement the same player?
Russ Oates (Purple Row): The team could still look for another bullpen arm. Alan Embree's out for the season after a nasty ball to the leg, but now Matt Belisle's back with the team. One should hope that having Franklin Morales pitch out of the bullpen will work out. [This answer was provided before Belisle was DFA'd last Thursday.]
Eric Stephen (True Blue LA): The Dodgers should be looking for a good lefty bat off the bench, but those don't exactly grow on trees.
Dex Bustarde (Gaslamp Ball): The Padres will be looking for more ways to fill the pie holes of fans in various ways, be it breakfasts, lunches, dinners or pies. The holes they should be filling are on the team and those won't be getting filled anytime this year in any significant way.
Grant Brisbee (McCovey Chronicles): Mmm, Felix Pie. What was the question? Oh, right. A hole the Giants should be concerned about? Bengie Molina is dragging down the lineup now, but there's no way he'll be replaced this year. As far as internal solutions, for all of the Matt Holliday talk, the Giants would probably do just as well to give John Bowker a ton of at-bats. For his entire pro career, Bowker was a low-average, high-strikeout slugger. Then Hensley Meulens -- the AAA hitting coach -- said something like, "Hey, have you ever tried that crazy new 'wait-for-a-good-pitch-to-hit' fad?", and now Bowker is a base-on-balls/home run machine in AAA. The Giants have a glut of lefty hitting, semi-promising corner outfielders, so it'll be interesting to see how they play it.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): With Doug Davis and Jon Garland free agents at the end of this season, Arizona will be looking to fill at least one of those spots for the 2010 rotation. That's especially necessary, as it's uncertain whether Brandon Webb [team option for 2010, but made only one start so far] will be around either. Most other positions have people to fill them, except second-base where Felipe Lopez is also a free-agent, though he has expressed some interest in re-signing.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Who are the most popular trade targets for those holes? Any targets flying under the radar? Any targets your team is especially intrigued in? Any popular names they're backing away from? Any rumors you'd like to start?
Russ Oates (Purple Row): Rumor mongering? What, like Roy Halladay to the Rockies?
Eric Stephen (True Blue LA): There will probably be rumors of the Dodgers going after a frontline starter, but I don't expect them to pay the price (in prospects or salary) for a guy like Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee. If they make a move, it will likely be for a veteran reliever of some sort, especially with recent injuries to Ronald Belisario and Jonathan Broxton.
Grant Brisbee (McCovey Chronicles): The Giants are close to acquiring Freddy Sanchez and Adam LaRoche for Kevin Frandsen, Travis Ishikawa, and Kevin Pucetas. I read that on a divisional roundtable of bloggers somewhere.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): I heard Roy Halladay is going to the Rockies, from an impeccable source.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which prospects and young major leaguers are most likely to change hands? Any that teams have deemed off-limits?
Russ Oates (Purple Row): I really don't see any major prospects or young major leaguers moving out of the organization.
Eric Stephen (True Blue LA): I've seen some of the Halladay or Lee rumors, and frankly I'm not sure where they are coming from. Clayton Kershaw and even Chad Billingsley have been mentioned as potential trade candidates, but I'm fairly certain those two would have to be pried from Ned Colletti's cold, dead hands.
Grant Brisbee (McCovey Chronicles): One of Fred Lewis or Nate Schierholtz is gone, if only to relieve the logjam in the outfield. It the target is a really good player who is under contract for 2010: Tim Alderson is the most likely to go. Otherwise, the top prospects aren't going anywhere.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): Most Arizona prospects are already in the majors, so it's unlikely we'll be trading anyone. They're much more likely to be going the other way, with us taking back prospects for the likes of Davis, Lopez or Garland.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Without any trade-deadline moves, what has to happen for your team to win the division? How much more likely is your team to make the playoffs by plugging its holes or adding an impact player?
Russ Oates (Purple Row): The Dodgers need to slow down. If the Dodgers hadn't started off that great, the NL West would be quite tight right now.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): The Big One hits California, removing the Giants and Dodgers from the equation, and topples the Rocky Mountains down on top of Coors Field. We might be able to handle what's left of the Padres, if Jake Peavy is appointed Governor of what remains of the state. Yeah: we're toast. Ted Williams couldn't help us now.
Dex Bustarde (Gaslamp Ball): Jim, I think even then, we'd have to take the best of both the Padres and D-Backs in an unholy union of snake and friar for either of us to see post season wins if either of us were handed the division by miracle default.
Eric Stephen (True Blue LA): As long as the sun comes up each day, I expect the Dodgers to play well beyond October 4.
Grant Brisbee (McCovey Chronicles): Barry Zito and Randy Johnson need to pitch better to negate the other pitchers coming down to earth. Someone other than Pablo Sandoval needs to hit, and Bengie Molina needs to get the hell out of the cleanup spot.
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Very cool Russ
Thanks for posting that.
"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK
Seconded
Was the whole “wipe out California” plan discussed, you know, off the record? Cos I’d like to hear more about that. Is there a password protected bit of the Row where we can, uh, talk?
Wasn't that the plot
of the first Superman movie? Launch a nuke into the San Andreas fault?
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 20, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Which is why California hired this guy to patrol the fault line...
So we’re safe for now.

Unfortunately, because of Schwarzenegger’s enforced furloughs the guard only works 4 days of the week.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
Now that it's mentioned
it would be pretty frustrating to lose out on a playoff chance to a team using Bengie Molina as a cleanup hitter…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
Jim McLennan (AZ SnakePit): I heard Roy Halladay is going to the Rockies, from an impeccable source.
That would be so cool if this was not a joke….please someone tell me it is not a joke….
What if the hokey pokey is what it is all about after all????
I doubt that ever happens.
Besides, I would prefer to go after Lee if we are hunting for an ace. He is cheaper and would probably take less talent to land.
Speaking about realistic chances....
How about we try to get Nolan Ryan to come out of retirement? If we had him on our pitching staff we would have no-hitters every 5th day…and come on a gizzer like him is better than 90% of the talent at this level even when he is 50+!
by lizardlad01 on Jul 20, 2009 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Geezer?
Your spelling reads…..differently.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the impeccable source comment
Refers to Russ’s opener in that section of discussion. Sorry to disappoint!
huh?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
His comment
is probably a reply fail or the server acting up.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
If Tom Watson can nearly win the British Open..
Then Nolan Ryan can at least pitch the 7th inning for the Rockies.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
I'll drink to that.
Love to see that happen.
by lizardlad01 on Jul 20, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
i'd wager we'll still have to be putting Chacin and Gomez on the table though
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Your probably right
Although I would hope that maybe we can build a package around Cargo and Hynick (who has really increased his value this year). And I’m not too opposed to trading Gomez at this point.
Of course, any moves Dan wishes to make have to pass through the Monforts wallet filter. So, adding salary like Lee is a longshot.
I think it we move Rosario or Gomez
Rox Girl might explode.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Any reliever?
What if the reliever was someone like Jim Johnson—good stuff, good performance, a pre-arb year remaining.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Not good enough...
No reliever is. Positional scarcity with catcher and shortstop makes those two guys a lot more valuable than Rockies fans realize.
Does Toronto want to move any other pitchers?
What about reliever Scott Downs? He’s coming off of a toe injury, but he posts a WHIP of .92 with an AVG against of .210 this season. Would add stability to the BP.
Check out my Rockies comic strip at:
Rock Drive 1.4
what would they want is the question
greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds greg reynolds ……
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions
It's more a question of status...
To me, the question is how close they are to “can’t miss” status rather than their position. So I gather you think of them very highly. (I have no idea, myself – I take your word for it.)
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Of course, any moves Dan wishes to make have to pass through the Monforts wallet filter. So, adding salary like Lee is a longshot.
I’ve been thinking about writing a longer post on this subject. I think the Rockies are actually in good position. They do have salary room to add, as they offered Matt Holliday a big contract. Helton comes off the books in 2 years. PLUS the rest of the league is hurting much, much worse than the Rockies. A lot of teams have big contracts from a few years ago, that are blooming just as the players go in decline, which the Rockies have only one..Helton.
Also the economic down turn has hit some teams and areas far worse then it hit Denver. The Rangers are having to borrow from the league office. The Cubs are looking to file bankruptcy papers. There are a lot of teams really hurting right now.
So….I think the Rockies could actually ADD some payroll, which I don’t see many others being able to do. Just adding a little puts the Rockies ahead of many other teams going into the trade deadline. Every contender, wants a player or two…but most can’t take on a salary. Most sellers are looking to get rid of salary first and foremost, talent back being secondary.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
So what biggish contracts are you interseted in?
Rios? Baez? Seems like we still need to save room for long term deals for Iannetta and Marquis…and maybe Street
I don't see Marquis being re-signed
Especially if he continues to dominate. He could get a very nice deal on the market. The Rockies will most likely offer arbitration and take the supplemental pick that comes with it.
I could see someone offering him
$15 million for 3 or 4 years….Especially if he is a 20 game winner…And I don’t think I’d want the Rockies to do that deal
15 mill PER year
or 5 million per for 3 years= 15 million. ??
In a normal off season, I totally agree with you. This off season, I don’t know too many teams that will offer Marquis a $45-60 million dollar contract.
This off season will be a brand new world for baseball free agents.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Yep, I was thinking with the economy plus the year he’s having, Matt Holliday will be wishing for the day when $72 million was on the table.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 20, 2009 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I just don’t see many teams willing or capable of putting up Johan Santana type deals in the offseason. Most MLB teams are reeling from lower attendance because of the recession. Also, these types of deals haven’t been able to buy the Mets or Yankees (ala A-Rod) any shiny hardware
dude 3 years/15M total
I’d jump all over that nonsense
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think the Rockies will sign Marquis
but it COULD happen. The Rockies and Marquis are a good fit on the field. Again, I don’t think many teams will be adding salary this off season. I think the Rockies will add some. Some could make the Rockies one of only a few buyers, in a buyers market.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
If I remeber correctly
We are not in that great of a financial position. I remember some news articles from may that the team was at the highest possible salary it could go, and in fact was bleeding money. Granted, trading Grilli for cash has helped, and I imagine the budget was based on a lower average attendance, but I don’t see the team able to add much more than 2 million to the payroll.
exactly
and being able to add 2 million…is huge. Think about it..if everyone else is cutting…you the Rockies can add just even 2 million, thats big. 2 million one way or the other can be big in the right deal.
And I understand that the Rockies are breathing easier when it comes to finances.(and it was very, very dim in May) The difference in being one of the worst teams as it looked in May to a solid long term playoff race is really making the Rockies front office re-evaluate finances.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Cubs bankruptcy
Says much more about the finances of the Tribune Co. and the sale than the Cubs’ finances. I believe they are basically trying to get the Cubs through their sale w/o liens and all that.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
yes this is true
but I understand from reading on this…the Cubs aren’t swimming in cash. (and it sounds ominous to say the Cubs are going to file for bankruptcy)
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Arizona would be a better example...
The $50 million cash call was span in a positive light by the press down there, but that’s a huge sum of money to be asking investors to be ponying up.
I wasn't aware of the D-backs having a cash call
those are not fun. And the Rockies had 2 of them not all that long ago…which in hindsight was good timing for the Rockies. They tightened their belts before everyone..then when the economy falls apart, the Rockies were/are in better shape then most that were living a little too high.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Isn't the bigger story there the
tens of millions in deferred money they owed to the 2001 team? \
It's part of the big story...
The D-backs were driven to the brink of disaster in buying that championship and the trophy has seemingly done little to win a healthy loyal fanbase. It’s a cautionary tale that going all out for wins isn’t the most advisable course of action if your market can’t handle it.
Still, that’s not the only part of this, if they only have $40 million of debt left on those deferred contracts and they’re going to be paying them off over a few seasons, it means that the $50 million’s being used to service current salary as well.
Sorry for the grammar error above by the way, spun, not span.
So they are saving up for the
forthcoming Jupton 10yr/$200 million deal, right?
I'm sure their fans wish this to be true,
But cash calls don’t work like that. They’re a tremendous negative pressure on team value and then salary as a tailing consequence. Look at what happened to the Rockies value and payroll after the 2002-2004 period where they made two cash calls and sold a big chunk of the team to News Corp at a significant discount. They went from a $65 million opening day salary in 2004 to $41 million two years later. Team value dropped from an estimated peak of $347 million in 2002 to $285 million two seasons later, the Rockies were the only team in MLB to lose value in this time.
Why this is a big, big story that AZ fans don’t realize is that it pretty much guarantees that core gets broken up when they hit free agency. Arizona’s going to be pawning Drew and Upton off for prospects, but they aren’t going to be signing them.
So why aren't we seeing Haren rumors?
He would seem the logical piece to move to cut payroll and get back prospects
Because he's valuable?
Presumably they can make it to the end of the year. They’ll likely decline Tracy’s option, and Schoeneweis comes off the books. If they’re still that cash strapped, they could then let Webb, Davis, and/or Garland go. After 2011, Byrnes is finally gone, too.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
Haren's signed for so cheap relative to his value,
At $8.25 million next season, It makes little sense for AZ to move him until after 2010 even if they are desperate. He’s still a bargain after that, but a bit less of one. Besides, their financial situation isn’t dire yet, it just isn’t promising looking forward. They say the cash call will “will prevent the losses from negatively affecting major-league payroll in coming years” which means cost neutral. On the surface this sounds okay to AZ fans: “Oh hey, the team isn’t cutting payroll. Whew, and we’ve got $40 million coming off the books for 2010 in spending cash, kaching!”
But if you look at Arizona’s specific 2010 salary situation, with guaranteed raises to Chris Young and Chris Snyder and likely Conor Jackson despite their under-performance, plus Stephen Drew likely doubling his salary in his first arbitration year, plus the team having to replace two currently underpaid starters (Webb and Davis) plus one more overpaid one (Garland) on the FA market as well as rebuilding a bullpen and bench (not to mention finding yet another starting caliber 2B now that they’ve traded Lopez) which figure to suffer trade or FA losses, the reality seems to suggest that equal salary in 2010 for the Diamondbacks means less talent. In 2011, the chances of them getting an upgrade grow dimmer because Upton and Reynolds enter arbitration as well.
Webb+Davis+Garland cost them $22.5 million this season. If they don’t pick up Webb’s $8.5 million option, they will have to replace all three. If they do pick up the option, there’s a large risk that they could be on the hook while he sits out a year after undergoing shoulder surgery. A team with level salary restrictions doesn’t take that risk, even if it could pay off in a big way. Even in a down economy, the three FA starters you would get for $22.5 million is not going to be close to the caliber of the three they lose, and this is before they address other holes.
The Rockies are in a better state with fewer holes to fill and less of an arbitration burden over the next couple of seasons and are more likely to be able to maintain their talent level at a similar payroll. Given that they are also on pace for 500,000 more fans and potentially another playoff appearance, it’s a much healthier fiscal position.
San Diego Meredith-Salazar trade
Does anyone know what SD was up to with this trade? It’s been reported that Salazar is a middle infielder, but apparently those days are gone (he’s 31). He’s been hitting lately (in the minors, and in short stints w/Baltimore). Szym at BBTF said he’s more first baseman than 3rd baseman, which if true, the trade really seems odd. I hope they’re not thinking of trading Gonzalez, but maybe they’re building up depth so they can see what they can get for him.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
prepping for a A-Gone trade
is the only thing that I can think of
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
If it happens
I would hope the Padres would get a haul. It just wouldn’t be fun facing a team for the next 5 years who could only win 30 games a year.
I had a dream..
last night that we traded EY2 for Jim Johnson. LOL random
by CentralCaliRox on Jul 20, 2009 11:24 AM MDT reply actions
I have two tickets for Thursday July 30
Mets vs. Rockies. Its a day game, and unfortunately I have to work. Sec 110 row 10. Face is $125 but stubhub tells me resale values are way down so I’d be willing to sell for substantially less (I pity the Mets season ticket holder these days). Especially to Rockies fans. If anyone wants them ping me.
Marquis
was on Jime Rome a little while ago. Nothing too interesting (other than, as others have noted, the thick Brooklyn accent). Noted that he hadn’t been around Hurdle too much, but liked him. He said Tracy has definitely been more relaxed. Also made a not-so-subtle reference to the benefit of the Stewart/Atkins flip without naming names. Mentioned that Apodaca helped him with his sinker, which he credited for his success. Talked about coming up into the great Braves rotation with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz et al, and how cool those guys were. Talked a bit about how golf helps him pitch, and vice versa. Etc. Some good jungle karma.

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