Sherrill?

by tulotulotulo on Jul 20, 2009 2:10 PM MDT

Longtime reader, first time poster. The Orioles need a 3rd baseman, we desperately need a bullpen arm. Sherrill could be downright dominant in the NL. I realize that the expense of Atkins could be prohibitive in dealing him to the Orioles, but if we kicked in some money and perhaps a grade C pitching prospect would there be any chance of this getting done? Sherrill is due 2.75 mill and would be under team control next year. Sounds like a better, more affordable Alan Embree to me...

Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).

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Sherill

the Orioles have been asking for a grade A close to major league ready prospect for Sherill. That would be J. Chacin…which is too much. He would be a great addition to the Rockie pen, but not for the Orioles asking price.

Also no one wants to trade for Atkins, even if we had to pay the entirety of his remaining 09 salary. I’m sure some would pick him up if he were waived, and they didn’t have to give anything up for him.

Why do fans of teams think other teams want their trash, and would give up quality to get that trash? And it usually goes, that the deals fans throw out are usually a grouping of trash, like that makes it better.

Also…all the selling teams have been seemingly asking for a lot. I haven’t seen too many “deals”. Which is why I think the Rockies will look inside for relievers.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 20, 2009 2:21 PM MDT reply actions

Who knows

Who knows if the O’s really want to move him, as even after arb won’t be making much for a closer. But I get that they’re asking for a lot, no one starts by asking for scrubs. If they finally move him, I’ll be interested to see what they actually received.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 20, 2009 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions

Sherill is a good arm to look at, but...

…I’m more concerned about the right-handed middle relief.

Peralta, Rincon, and now Corpas (since coming back) scare me every time they’re in the ballgame. Peralta and Rincon have too straight of a fastball for Coors field and neither have an “out” pitch they can consistently throw for strikes. I’d advocate ditching them for Speier and Herges immediately. Corpas just doesn’t have consistent sink on the two-seamer right now and I’m not sure his elbow is going to last long enough for him to figure it out.

Morales is still such a pleasant surprise out of the bullpen, just like was as a starter in the second half two seasons ago. I still just don’t think he’s your quintessential “8th Inning guy”, though. I think he’s going to be a good two-inning guy and someone who will be a good left-on-left matchup.

The bullpen still needs that one piece, though — a guy that can own an eighth inning as well as Fuentes, Bucholz, and Corpas have the past two years. I think everyone else falls in place if the team can land a Sherill or Wuertz, and the team is really going to need to look at such an arm if they are still 1st place in the Wild Card going into the deadline.

Who is REALLY worth keeping in the farm system if doing so would prevent the major league team from making the playoffs THIS year? Chacin? Rogers? EY2? Hynick?

by jmpmk2 on Jul 20, 2009 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions

It's not all about this year

Except in a trade for an ace., Chacin and Rogers are untouchables. As I reasoned in other fanposts, Hynick, EY2, and extra outfielders are the most valuable and reasonable trade chips for this club. Unfortunately, this won’t net us a top lights out 8th inning reliever because selling teams are asking for all of King Midas gold for their players. There’s also RedHawk’s argument that a callup of a top pitching prospect and put him in the bullpen for the rest of the year or in September callups could have just as much of an impact of a trade and void the reasoning for such a deal.

“Morales is still such a pleasant surprise out of the bullpen, just like was as a starter in the second half two seasons ago. I still just don’t think he’s your quintessential "8th Inning guy", though. I think he’s going to be a good two-inning guy and someone who will be a good left-on-left matchup.”

Agree with all of those things, but that’s what makes him so valuable; that he can dominate for more than one inning, for example, facing an important lefty matchup in the 7th and pitch until the end of the eighth. Such a relief pitcher like that, is in fact, priceless to the Rockies’s bullpen need, ad also voids a need for such a reliever.

“Who is REALLY worth keeping in the farm system if doing so would prevent the major league team from making the playoffs THIS year? Chacin? Rogers? EY2? Hynick?”

This saying sort of makes me shudder. Win now strategies are a lofty risk that could set the Rockies back for years, and something like that with a team that seems to have a neverending flow of young talent, well, doesn’t make sense, especially with tools in place that could keep the Rockies competing for years.

by bballrox4717 on Jul 20, 2009 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions

It’s kind of odd for me to say something like, “anybody’s fair game”, but AAA is a logjam right now and there are AA guys that are going to need to be on the 40-man roster at the end of the season.

And I don’t know if you can call it a “win now” strategy when most of the major league team already consists of very young players. In my opinion, any 3rd baseman, SS, or Outfielder in the minors should be considered a trade prospect, because they’re not going to sniff the majors for the foreseeable future. I mean, it’s not as if these guys aren’t being replaced every year by incoming prospects anyway.

So, yeah. Chacin, Rogers, and EY2 are untouchable, but anyone else for some decent relief pitching? Go for it. Chris Nelson will never be a major leaguer as long as Tulo is in a Rockies uniform. Somebody like Christian Colonel or Daniel Ortmeier won’t even get a sniff at a backup role as long as Atkins and Helton are still on the team. Hirsch, Reynolds, and Smith aren’t anywhere near an opportunity at the starting rotation, especially if Francis comes back healthy next year.

At the major league level, I think Gonzales and Torrealba are expendable (why is Paul Phillips in AAA again?).

by jmpmk2 on Jul 21, 2009 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions

The problem is that besides Gonzalez

every single player you listed as tradeable doesn’t actually have trade value, and the Rockies should not trade him because he still has insane tools and has only become a problem because he needs at-bats to adjust to MLB pitching, but the Rockies can’t give too many to him because of the playoff race, meaning they need to start the best lineup possible.

Chris Nelson, Hirsh, Reynolds, and Greg Smith have all had injury problems. Colonel and Ortmeier are AAAA players. Torrealba has a contract that no team would like to pick up, and is a backup catcher, which no team really needs.

And why do Rockies fans want to sell off the farm? It makes them no better than teams who get screwed over yearly because they trade their prospects away, like the Yankees (who are only good because of a 200+ million dollar payroll and them finally learning the lesson of actually developing their own players), Cubs, etc.

by bballrox4717 on Jul 21, 2009 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions

I fail to see how the Yankees are screwed

They have a decent farm and they win 90+ games a season.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 21, 2009 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions

Can't keep up with younger better teams

like the Rays and Red Sox. It’s becoming less of an issue this year, but it was horrible how old their team was last year.

by bballrox4717 on Jul 21, 2009 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions

check the standings real quick

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions

The O's have been asking the moon

You should scroll down jusssst a bit to either the “Relief” fanpost by brian8065 or “The bullpen arms we SHOULD be going after.” by Roxintober

Welcome, and make sure to poke around a bit, because we’re all thinkin’ what you’re sayin’!!

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 2:35 PM MDT reply actions

I mean hell

They’re hesitant to part with freaking Aubrey Huff or Luke Scott. Scott I can see keeping, but come on, Huff? You’re SUPPOSED to trade those guys! That’s what you’re doing, you’re trading and bringing up your Markakis’ and Jones’ and Guthrie’s.

Honestly, do they have any idea what they’re doing??

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions

MacPhail

I guess I forgot to consider that MacPhail is smarter than most and wouldn’t believe Atkins to have as much perceived value as a team that highly values RBI (Dayton Moore?) I realize that MacPhail is asking the moon now, but that’s just because that’s what he supposed to do. He’s saying that there is no need to deal him now but that’s just posturing, at the deadline he’ll get a deal done even if it’s for a B prospect.

Maybe I’m wrong, but considering Mora’s age and Atkins career numbers, Atkins really can’t be considered “trash” comparatively, can he? I wrote that first post from the premise that Atkins still has a lot of perceived value around the league and is a prime change-of-scenery-is-all-he-needs type of player. I thought that a year of free Atkins would be a plus, not a salary dump.

I hadn’t read the comments before on the “Relievers we should be going after post”. I can’t imagine that Hynick would have any chance in AL East. That could get ugly…

by tulotulotulo on Jul 20, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions

Well I'm not so much saying "Trade us your studs for our garbage!"

So much as I’m saying “What on earth are you gonna do with Huff? Build on him?” they should’ve traded him after last season.

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions

The sad thing is...

We thought we had a good bullpen going into spring. Street, Corpus, Buchholz, Grilli, Embree and Speier looked pretty good on paper. Unfortunately, things generally did not work out.

I want to trade up, and after going through that whole posting on Relief, which I started, I can see the difficulties that Dan O’Dowd has. I suggested guys in my posting that we should trade, and they were all non-pitchers (and one announcer).

If it takes losing Seth Smith to get the right guy, and he would really have to be the right guy, then that is what we should do.

After reading everything in “Releif” though, I think we are looking at solving the problem from within.

by brian8065 on Jul 20, 2009 5:27 PM MDT reply actions

Which I am fine with, MOL

by brian8065 on Jul 20, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions

I would not be okay with trading Smith for a relief pitcher

unless he’s a closer. And maybe not even then, because his value would be inflated by saves, and he’d soon be overpaid. Plus, I just like Smith

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 20, 2009 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions

I think you are overvaluing Smith

good hitting numbers in just 250 At bats over the past 2 years, average-above average defense, he’s not really a proven guy yet, never was a top prospect, go into the majors late; teams may look at him as a left handed bench bat, especially since people know him as our primary pinch hitter until he began to start. We may see him as a starter because he’s been excellent this year, but his career numbers are all people and opposing GM’s are going to see.

by bballrox4717 on Jul 20, 2009 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions

Smith's value

Actually, I think Smith’s value is actually underated. Not as a starting left-fielder (which I’m fine with for now) so much, but to a team who plans on being in the play-offs (Dodgers) that needs a left-handed bat off the bench that has proven that he can hit late in the game after sitting on his butt for two hours. Smith is probably the best there is in that department and has been for the last couple years. That, is why he is invaluable to me. Yes, I’d like to land another late-inning reliever (no offense to Morales and Daley who have stepped up lately), but not at the expense of an even tougher to find play-off piece.

by IowaRockie on Jul 20, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions

This plus

I totally agree with this plus, I’d like to add, that the Rockies FO and the fans shouldn’t get to attached to marginal talent. Fans especially tend to over value their own guys. Smith is not marginal. He’s really sold as a starter, but as a left hand pinch hitter he’s really special too.

Relief pitchers just aren’t that valuable or rare really.

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 20, 2009 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Smith

I think a lot of Seth Smith, but we have depth in RF.

by brian8065 on Jul 20, 2009 11:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions

He's a LF though

And I’ve heard rumors he can handle CF in a smaller park, but i don’t think he has the arm to be an effective RF

Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY

by Andrew Martin on Jul 20, 2009 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions

Oops

I know where he plays. Sorry

by brian8065 on Jul 21, 2009 8:57 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions

I never said Smith wasn't valuable to us

but pretty much I agree with everything you said, that Smith is underrated, and that’s why we won’t get much for him.

by bballrox4717 on Jul 20, 2009 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions

I wasn't necessarily saying I wouldn't trade him for Heath Bell

But he is certainly valuable, and not every career starter had dynamite numbers in the minors (Matt Holliday?!). Smith has a very fundamentally sound smooth swing, a fantastic eye, some power, some speed. Relief pitchers come and go more than McDonald’s fry cookers, and you’re not going to get a Huston Street caliber mainstay.

"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 21, 2009 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

One of the best lines EVAR on PR

Relief pitchers come and go more than McDonald’s fry cookers

Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!

by Redhawk on Jul 21, 2009 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions

Reliever turnover

When your method of acquiring relievers is to stop by the side of the road and pick up guys holding signs that say “Will work for food,” you’re going to see some turnover.

Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!

by FooMan on Jul 21, 2009 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions

Sounds almost like the donkey's

and their supermarket players

"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK

by jrockies on Jul 24, 2009 9:54 PM MDT up reply actions