Colorado Rockies trade for Rafael Betancourt
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 1:45 PM MDT
in Transactions & Rumors
576 comments
Putting the pieces of the story together, this morning Ken Rosenthal reported that the Indians and Rockies were talking about Rafael Betancourt in his article confirming the Jhoulys Chacin call-up. Rumors about a pending deal have been heating throughout the afternoon, and Ed Price at AOL FanHouse has a source that says it's done. Now we're getting more substantial word that the Indians will likely be announcing the trade in a press conference this afternoon. Still no word on who the Rockies will be sending to Cleveland, but we will update this post as more comes out.
UPDATE: According to the comments, a Cleveland news station is reporting that the Rockies will be sending RHP Connor Graham to the Indians to complete the trade.
Quick analysis: It's a good exchange, Graham's got some upside that could make him better than a reliever down the road, but the more likely scenario would have him working out of the bullpen as a late inning power arm, which is exactly what Betancourt is.
UPDATE 2:The Denver Post confirms Betancourt for Graham
Check how Indians fans are reacting at Let's Go Tribe
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Apparently
it’s Connor Graham. Someone from the Indian’s newstation said it. I don’t have a link though.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what I heard (MLBtraderumors)
The Indians television station (Sportstime Ohio) just reported on their post game show that the Indians trade Betancourt to the Rockies for Connor Graham a Hi Class A pitcher. 7-4 with a 3.14 ERA.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's just Connor Graham
I think I’d be more than OK with that.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
if so wooo!
I just called it on the other post
by djmbluemoon on Jul 23, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Indians television station (Sportstime Ohio) just reported on their post game show that the Indians trade Betancourt to the Rockies for Connor Graham
damn all of you for beating me
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
I guess I win for getting it to PR first?
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said Connor Graham....
but that was just a guess
by djmbluemoon on Jul 23, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I like best about this
The Rockies seem to have a preponderance of B/B-/C+ type prospects that are perfect chips in trades that bring in small but important pieces. Tip of the cap to O’Dowd for using one of those chips and making us a better team today than we were yesterday.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
this is a good trade
Connor Graham is way down the list in the organizational pecking order
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 1:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
He's not a bad pickup for Cleveland, though.
An RHP that throws a sinker in the mid 90’s with a plus slider, sounds like a solid late inning reliever to me.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a top-15 prospect in our PURP list
And that’s even with the ‘Christian Colonel #3!!!" nonsense. I think that speaks to him being fairly well regarded, although certainly not the kind of upper-tier prospect that we’d be gnashing our teeth about losing.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me be the first to say, or maybe not if its already been said,
that I would have hoped we could have given up someone like Hynick instead. I think this is a bigger loss. I guess we’ll find out down the road, but I think I would have even liked to see Escalona leave more than Graham. I just hope he doesn’t turn into a Broxton down the road.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
by smokinRox on Jul 23, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's definitely a bigger loss than Hynick
But you can’t get something for nothing, usually.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, but is Betancourt worth it?
Most Indians fans are not sad to see him go, and I would have preferred to see what some of our own guys could do. How do you feel? Is he a huge upgrade over anything we could have put on the field?
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
by smokinRox on Jul 23, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betancourt's going to be pretty good, I think.
If you look at where most of his failure has come from this season:
A game against the Red Sox ten days later, on April 29 and two games against the Tigers,May 2, and May 9.
Since then he’s had a 1.26 ERA. I don’t know how we could expect Rogers, Deduno or even Chacin to be that good. Some of that’s luck, some of it’s like a right handed Brian Fuentes, where he picks the batters that he knows he can get out and pitches around those he’s less confident with. Given that he’s coming to the NL and won’t face lineups like those (outside the Dodgers) I think we’ll see fewer guys he pitches around.
I think it’s a clear upgrade for this year over what we have available, both in the current bullpen and on the farm.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this trade
we have a solid 8th inning guy, and if Corpas comes back (20% IMO) . Daley and Rincon/Chacin pitch the 7th. Our bullpen was getting a little out of sorts since Corpas went down, i think eveyone is back to having a role.
by Roxfan24 on Jul 23, 2009 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually okay with this.
I’m starting to worry more about the Braves than the Giants.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to harsh our buzz, man.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
dammit
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that figures
this is usually the time of the year where the arms fall of the Braves’ bullpen
by djmbluemoon on Jul 23, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Mark Buehrle is perfect therough 7
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
why was I watching Atlanta blow up?!!?!?!?
Dang it, open ur eyes- yelling at myself
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, let them reach their hit quota for the month.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
in case you missed it
Cleveland is a topic on youtube too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM&feature=related
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 23, 2009 1:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont want to click the link cause im at work
but is that the cleveland tourism video?
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah part 2 is the far superior one
our economy is based on lebron james
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
our main export
is crippling depression
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont go to east (or west i cant remember) cleveland
or you’ll die
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today is a very good off day
I think I have a raging Clue over here
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 1:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
ill call your clue
and raise you clue goo
if you're reading this, it means my undying support for your team will result in its failure.
by fantasyfencing on Jul 23, 2009 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still
hate trading prospects. But for just Graham and to get a quality reliever in return, works for me. But what is going to happen to our current bullpen? We have Rincon, Speier, Street, Morales, Fogg, Daley, Chacin? I’m guessing Rincon. More like hoping Rincon.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 1:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
Chacin hasn’t been officially added to the bullpen yet
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping it's Speier
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speier can be effective.
I’m just curious to see him throw, see which Speier we get.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speier may very well be damaged goods after his disaster of a rehab stint.
But we need to take a look, at least, I agree.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he can be very effective when he is used sparingly
Either in a game or a series…After a while that delivery is easier for hitters to adjust after they’ve seen him
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's Daley, but I'm probably in the minority on that.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 23, 2009 6:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, unlike the rest he is on an option yr
So I could see him being sent down to buy some time to evaluate the others.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 8:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this scenario makes a lot of sense...
Although I don’t know why we’d keep Fogg over Daley save for sentimental/good luck reasons (which admittedly are pretty strong).
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daley is convenient, but he's had a good thing going for the past while.
I’d probably prefer DFAing Rincon OR Fogg before optioning Daley, though I also concede I don’t see it as more than a 50% shot that Daley keeps this up for the rest of the season.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daley
I dunno what to think; his season is really weird so far. Maybe the ERA is about right with everything else being screwy. His infield fb rate is somewhere between Mariano Rivera high and ludicrously high. (For some reason fangraphs [30%] and Hardball times [23%] have it very different, despite both using BIS data; statcorner has 17.8%. I gotta go back and search the fine print on all those sites, they must not measure the same thing.) He maintained a pretty high IFFB rate of 14% in his minor league career, so maybe some of this is an aspect of his skillset.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other issue with Daley is that we only have one spot on the roster right now.
With both Chacin and Betancourt coming, unless they transfer Embree to the 60 day DL, somebody has to be designated for assignment.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of those names is not like the other,
If Josh Fogg is still on this team tomorrow night, I’m going to start to suspect that he’s in the possession of some blackmail material.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fogg or Rincon
it’s kind of a tossup, they’ll probably go with the clubhouse fav
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
AKA Fogg.
Rincon has been absolutely awful at times, and Fogg has given the Rockies no reason to send him down.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's just blah
not awful, not great
blah
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fogg is only a long reliever I think
Where as maybe rincon has a little more strike out stuff for later innings?
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Betancourt replaces Rincon’s miscast role pitching in later innings. Bye Bye Rincon.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need a 'long reliever'
We can stretch out Morales and Chacin if we need to. Fogg is the one who has become redundant.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree--they haven't been pushing the pen hard
some guys can stretch to 2 innings….should be doable provided they avoid 16-pitch at bats.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
no it pushes Rincon to his right spot
which would be 6/7th inning guy, and against the tough righties
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rincon's had three really bad outings this year with the Rox
And 10 scoreless innings where he’s been near flawless. Righties are hitting .174 against him. I think he’s worth keeping.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't want any awful guys and you can't have all great guys.
Fogg has been decent for us and he could come in and give 3+ innings if needed. He can also give you one late in the game. I’m hoping we keep the Dragon Slayer.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep Rincon, honestly.
There’s no longer an excuse to keep Fogg for ‘long relief’ since there are two recently converted starters now in the pen.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Fogg
Sounds right. Cuz they also said Chacin was going to enter the long reliever role. Yeah, it’s Fogg for sure.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Fogg, How we will miss thee
Let me count the ways
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can't be Fogg!
The Rockies have used him so much the last couple of weeks….they can’t lose Fogg!
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real question is what did Fogg do to lose his job?
He’s been nothing sort of surprisingly good in the long relief role.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a matter of the new guys being better than he is.
At least, we should hope so.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree there
Tough Luck, but thats the cost of getting better to a certain degree perhaps
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know the answer to that question myself
Fogg has done well…in his short innings. I don’t know why he hasn’t been used more
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The answer is Foog's career
Besides, you can’t just look at Fogg’s ERA and discuss success or failure this year without looking at context. Fogg pitches with absolutely nothing on the the line. His leverage score of .66 this year puts him behind Street, Rincon, Flores, Peralta, Daley, Morales, Embree, Rusch, Grilli, and Corpas, and only puts him ahead of Belisle and Speier for non-starters. He’s getting the “easiest” possible innings he can. The reason he isn’t given more is bottom line, he’s Josh Fogg with a career FIP of 5.01.
Rincon has inversely been given innings too difficult for his talents, yet has still managed to provide more impact to the win column when you look at stats like WXRL. Basically, he’s still a net positive on the pen because of the toughness of his innings and the success he’s had in a majority of them. Using him earlier in the game is likely to make him all the more effective.
Chacin supplants Fogg simply because he has more talent, and that talent could lead to a broader use in the bullpen.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 6:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt anybody is looking at just Fogg's ERA and coming to this conclusion.
Fact is, Fogg’s innings may be the easiest, but whether they’re easy or not, he’s done his job pretty much every time. Rincon may have a far more difficult job, but has not been as successful with it.
Rincon has better stuff than Fogg. No one is denying it, as far as I know. But Fogg has not been letting us down, while Rincon has faltered about 25% of the time we’ve needed him to do better.
What it ultimately comes down to is which one, subjectively, is more important to be replaced? The mediocre guy with little upside doing his job regularly, or the mediocre guy with more upside not doing his job only some of the time.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd go with door number 2.
Relievers are not going to pitch brilliantly every single time they go out (well, unless you are a top tier closer). I would go with the guy with the ability to get better, as opposed to the guy who’s playing at his personal best right now and his personal best is consistency with low leverage situations. OTOH, I can see why consistency is valued, especially when we’re in contention for the wild card winning the NL West.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant door #1, then (if you are indeed favoring Fogg).
Ultimately, I empathize to both sides of the table here. I think I, personally, lean in the Rincon direction over Fogg, but also have an understanding that Fogg, as a player in an objective analysis, does not figure to provide the impact Rincon possibly could, and I am especially receptive to this due to the fact that Fogg, quite simply, isn’t needed to begin with, as evidenced by his lack of playing time.
It’s kind of like that cliche’d tough decision: do you play the game where your odds of winning are good, but your prize is nothing special, or do you play the game where your odds of winning are much less, but you win a really, really nice prize?
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's not the game at all
because Fogg’s innings basically mean nothing. If he gave up a three run homer in every outing, we’d almost be no better or worse off, because he pitches very little meaningful games. If you keep Fogg to keep getting what he brings, you are essentially getting nothing.
It’s more like playing quarters with quarters or playing quarters with bottle caps. Even if you’re much better with the bottle caps, you aren’t making anything.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said earlier, I fail to see how the ease of Fogg's innings mean anything.
If they’re so unimportant that you believe the long relief pitcher can give up three run homers every inning he pitches, then what difference does it make if we have, I don’t know, a houseplant in the long relief role?
Don’t get me wrong; I understand you were simply being hyperbolic. But to me, ultimately, the easiness of Fogg’s innings means nothing to me. If they’re easy, and he does them perfectly fine, let him stay. It’s not like we’re going to be needing Fogg for anything other than your easy innings in the first place.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
Fogg hasn’t really been given the chance to prove himself. They are only using him when the score is really one-sided.
My impression of Fogg: a guy who is lights out for a few innings, then has a blow up inning that loses the ball game. I am okay with putting Fogg in “high leverage” situations for an inning or two. This why I was really excited to see him in the pen. But he really hasn’t been given the chance to prove me right.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
*This is why.
I should proofread when I write more than a sentence at a time.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
Fogg has had 1133.2 major league innings to prove himself. If we don’t know what he can provide by now, then we need better talent evaluators.
Luckily, we do know and that’s why he’s serving the role he has served thus far.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a bit confused by what you're implying.
Fogg has spent the majority of his 1133.2 innings as a starting pitcher. From what I’ve seen of him as a starting pitcher, that is the impression I have of him. This is why I am happy to see him in the bullpen. It seems like the perfect fit for him. He hasn’t been given the chance to prove himself out of the bullpen yet.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is significant because of context
For starters, the “long relief” role is stupid and a waste of roster space. You have essentially seven guys out there, and two to three should have the ability to pitch two to three innings. Having a guy that only throws garbage innings like Fogg, is as you say, a house plant. If he keeps doing good in easy innings, he isn’t really helping much, because we’re probably still down five or up six. Besides, the Rockies are proving this role provides them no utility. Need proof? Check Fogg’s usage pattern (or lack thereof).
Constructing a bullpen without Fogg and with Rincon gives you better pitchers. Obviously Street only throws the ninth save for certain situations, and Betancourt generally throws the eighth, you would then have five guys to play matchups with from innings 5-7. If the Rockies need to make five pitching changes from innings 5-9, then so be it, but the more they can maximize their potential in leverage situations, the better payoff they’ll find.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am familiar with Fogg's usage, and mentioned it my previous posts.
I can indeed concede (and often argue in agreement with you here) that itemizing pitchers into niches like “long relief” can indeed be valueless. However, most people argue, sometimes to the extreme, that consistency is the byproduct of the encouragement of roles. Basically, someone would say that Fogg doesn’t need to be good at anything else, because his ROLE is that of long relief. In most cases, I believe too much emphasis is placed on the division of players by title instead of skillset.
And also keep in mind that I am not trying to make a strong argument for why Fogg should stay. I still lean a bit towards keeping him over Rincon, but I’m not exactly going to miss him if it is indeed he who is replaced.
I do fully accept that having a better player than Fogg, in any role, is a more important move. Thing is, at this point, I have less confidence in Rincon than I do in Fogg. Again, I realize fully that Rincon has both a better career in the past, and the setup for a greater career in the future. But if all Rincon is going to offer us is what he is, I’m still going to have to argue that I believe the guy pitching hard innings and letting us down is the more important candidate for replacement than the guy pitching easy innings and not letting us down.
Both can be improved upon. I believe improving our middle/late right handed relief is more important than improving our houseplant.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue with Fogg
Is that Tracy is more likely to let a starter work himself out of a jam than quick hook to the pen. By doing this it really limits/eliminates the long reliever role. While i like Fogg he is now taking a roster spot from someone else who can contribute on a more regular basis.
Perfect example is last Friday’s game against the padres. Hurdle would have pulled Ubaldo in the 5th when he began to struggle, Tracy left him in, he got out of it and pitched 2 more strong innings.
Fogg should be the one to go.
by Roxfan24 on Jul 23, 2009 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I tried to make clear, I agree with all of that.
Somebody better than Fogg could be up here. The problem is, I ALSO think somebody better than Rincon can be up here, and I think that’s more important.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we can just say that Rincon and Fogg are one person,
and so would fill just one spot on the roster. And everyone would believe us because they are pretty much twins.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and if Rincon pitches a bad inning,
say it was Fogg’s evil twin and he’ll be better next time.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just switch their uniforms, cut Rincon's hair, and dye Fogg's black.
Problem solved.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DO IT.
Sorry if that sounded like it came out of left field. This comment thread just needed a little levity.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Wolf
Just to let you know, I’m right there with you on Fogg. Just wanted to let you know you’re not the only one who sees some merit to him. I don’t get this talk of meaningless innings. If he was getting lit up when he pitched, that would be one thing. But when he’s been called on, he has generally delivered this year. My problem with Rincon is that he seems to be a one pitch pitcher and I think sooner or later some good hitters are going to figure that out.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually he's a 2 pitch pitcher
a fast ball and a change. For years he was just fine with that..but as he’s gotten a little older his fastball isn’t the weapon it once was. There is a reason the Twins released him after all.
He’s working on a slider…but it’s not good yet.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
David's point is that no matter what Fogg does, in most cases it is not going to mean a win or a loss.
And I think he would be correct. The difference is that, as far as I understand it, he sees Fogg’s “garbage inning” status as a reason to eliminate him and get someone up here with better skills who will use his roster spot to contribute more than that.
I don’t know; maybe that would help.
But the way I see it, Fogg, whether they are important innings or not, is indeed not playing a very important role… all the more reason to make sure the people who ARE playing more important roles are playing them well.
I think Rincon has probably done a better job than most people notice; he’s not been on the team very long, and has done his share of fair work. But I still don’t think he’s done a good enough job to be helpful.
I CAN say that I think that Rincon has been more responsible for losses, and other negative effects, than Fogg has. That may most certainly be because Fogg only pitches “garbage innings”. But since we need somebody who DOESN"T pitch garbage innings to be doing well too, I think that’s a bigger priority, plain and simple.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the issue with Rincon
and compared to Fogg that David was trying to point out is Rincon is forced into a roll…that’s a little above his head.
Now that the Rockies have Betancourt, everyone slides back one and Rincon will be in role more suited to his abilities.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rincon will still be in the same role.
It will just have a different number at the top. You yourself agreed that the closer’s role was overrated. I assume you feel that way because you see that giving up 3 runs in the 7th inning can be similarly damaging to 3 runs in the 9th inning.
Maybe Rincon will improve. Maybe having a lighter load of pressure will allow him to improve. Or, maybe Rincon will still be setting us back every fourth time on the mound.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes and no
now the Rox have Betancourt to use in the really tough spots. And Rincon will get a few less tough spots
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, that's what I said...
I’m confused.
It’s not that I disagree with that… I just disagree that putting a 7 in front of Rincon’s inning instead of an 8 makes having him on the team at his current performance level all that more acceptable.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you use
Street in the 9th and Betancourt in the 8th (not saying that’s the best way…just standard practice) You then have 5 other guys to mix and match 2 innings…so in theory you won’t have Rincon always in the highest pressure situation. Sure at times yes…but not always like he has been.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A rotating 7th inning probably will be the case.
I just very much hope that this allows Rincon to either settle down and improve. Not saying it can’t happen. Indeed, if they DFA Fogg, they’re banking on it.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 9:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Rincon
he’s got a good fastball still. It’s one the seems to explode/get faster at the end…even if the gun only says 94.
He’s no 8th inning lock down guy..but he’s a good power arm. I would actually put him pretty high on the list of who I’d call in the pen right now.
Last would be Speier. I really don’t like his stuff, or his performance this year, or his career.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speier has been real clutch at spots though
and he’s the perfect relief guy to ask for a DP too, he throws a good sinker. He’s one of those guys that you say why the hell is he is in, and then he surprises you with a K or DP ball. I loved him during 2007 and he was good in 2008 too.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you are anti-Speier.
And believe me, I give full credit to Rincon that he has done his job most of the time. It’s still not good enough for me. Maybe, assuming he does in fact stay, he will improve, and I will eat my tasty words.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 9:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got confidence in the starters getting us
thru the 7th on most nights.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 9:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've missed this
1) “Long Relief” is stupid? No, no…a closer is the most overrated role…but a Long Reliever may be the most underrated. By that I mean having a guy that can spot start if the starter gets sick or hurt before the game or early on…or just get shell. To give 4 or so good innings, is huge to team. Now the Rockies have a few guys that can do that if needed. What I don’t like…is saving a pitcher JUST for those situations, especially if they are good enough to take up a roster/pen spot.
2) but Fogg as been used as you say in fairly low pressure situations. He actually hasn’t gone several innings too many times. In fact most of his outings have been middle inning stuff for one inning. It’s this that he’s actually done well at this year. One inning can be easier to do then 5. I don’t like Fogg’s stuff. Rincon’s stuff is better. Rincon has been in higher pressure situations….but my point and question, is why not use Fogg a little more in high pressure situations?
He may not be the fastest draw…but he’s got the steadier calmer hand…and that can make up for a lot.
and on the Rincon/Fogg debate: that said…I think Speier is terrible…and he did nothing in the last month in AAA to tell me he can be a major league reliever.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think David was implying that having a player who CAN pitch long relief is stupid...
… I think he was saying that having a player like Fogg who can ONLY pitch long relief is stupid.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, I realize Fogg has done well in the middle relief situations he has seen.
But in that case, I have to agree that I don’t necessarily expect that to continue. But, going back to my perspective, I still think Rincon is a more important cog to replace (and yes, for the record, that includes Speier too, but we need to give him a look first and see what he does with this)
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To add to your argument Wolf..
Look up Fogg’s Whip this year, he’s pretty good, top 10 in the NL if I remember correctly. I’m at work so I’m limited to what I can look up.
Order a Purple Row t-shirt and donate to charity at:
Purple Row Cares
by Charlie77 on Jul 23, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though I could use that to support my subjective argument..
… I can’t say I can objectively agree that that means all that much in Fogg’s favor.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because of a .126 BABIP
His FIP is in the 4.90’s so luck is the biggest thing in Fogg’s favor.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this trade a LOT
Betancourt has 3 above average pitches, experience, playoff experience.
And according to Fangraphs, he had the best fastball in MLB in 2007
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 1:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
How hard does Betancourt throw NOW though?
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
His average fastball this year is 92.1
It was 91.4 in 2007. It’s not all about velocity
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not too hard
But yeah it’s not all about fastball. You said he has 3 above average pitches..so I’m guessing he’s a strikeout pitcher? I looked at his numbers and i think it was like 35/17 K/BB ratio
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing
disconcerting about Betancourt really is that his walk rate has increased from like 1.7 per 9 to 4.4 per 9 or something over the past few seasons.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was filthy in 2007
I can’t imagine he’s as good now, and the stats reflect that. He still looks pretty good, though.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are very good sas a staff at limiting walks
Maybe ‘Dac can iron out those kinks, as that’s the only part I worry about
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has an above average FB, change, slider
according to fangraphs
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Post confirms things
http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_12899851
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If
Betancourt and Chacin give us quality innings, do we look back at the Corpas injury as a blessing in disguise?
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 1:57 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
yes?
we have plenty of guys to punt
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay I'm hoping he pulls it out
Go Buehrle! lol
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
watch it for free
on MLB.com right now.
by jcd823 on Jul 23, 2009 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok so where do we put Raffy now that we have him?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
On the big league roster, ideally.
Specifically, in the bullpen.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha yeah hopefully
I think he’s earned the right to be in our bullpen lol. Just waiting to see who we are DFA’ing or demoting.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Embree hasn't been moved to the 60 day DL yet, has he?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right with Daley going if behind
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speier
needs to get some looks this weekend vs. the Giants. I’m thinking he could really be crucial in our bullpen.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"or with a lead"
you aren’t suggesting using the best relievers in high leverage situations that might not be inning determined?
Nah….that would be too progressive.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's better than him other than Street?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers wise no one
But I havnt seen him pitch in at least a year personally
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go, 3 more outs for Buehrle....
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Freakin' awesome
You gotta love baseball with stuff like this
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Photo caption
it’s funny, because he’s only allowed 3 HR in almost 31 IP. Yet that’s what AP chose release for our pics
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD
DID YOU JUST SEE THAT PLAY THE WHITE SOX CF JUST MADE WOW
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Still on?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buerhle already has a no hitter in his career
so I’m not SO sad for him.
…I want to a see a Wakefield perfect game
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD!!!!!!
Did anyone else see that catch???
by jcd823 on Jul 23, 2009 2:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
Not even close to my team and I have goosebumps
Perfection
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
son of a
i go and forget to update my lineups in baseball and buerhle throws a perfect game on my bench
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You forgot the 'FML' at the end.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Thats totally something I would do
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to order my twisty cone, and I missed it!
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 23, 2009 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dwayne Wise was a defensive replacment in the 9th
Thats a great decision
Unreal
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see the catch,
Booted up MLBTV too late.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was unbelievable
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caught it initially above the yellow line at the wall
Banged the wall pretty hard and bobbled it and ended up bare handing it for the out
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
epic
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
needs to be said again
epic
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Buehrle should
buy Dwayne Wise a car or something.
by jcd823 on Jul 23, 2009 2:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap
Just heard the call on ESPNRadio. Exciting!
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 2:13 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
what number perfect game is that?
am i correct in thinking there have only been like 27 perfectos?
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:13 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's the list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
goddamn is wikipedia fast
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right??
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
An editor said Buerhle was on his fantasy team in the article :P
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
“Hauser can’t code were crap!
He’s on my fantasy baseball team…woot."
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hehe... new vandalism with every refresh
whatever that means.
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARRRRRD, yeS!
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody can edit it.
I’m sure as soon as it got even close, somebody had all the info typed in and ready to hit send the second the final out was made.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
but it’s still impressive, especially when things of smaller magnitude occur. For instance, Rafael Betancourt’s page also has him on the Rockies
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
It says he was traded on the 22nd to the Rockies, a day behind son! Get on it!
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't write that.
Just changed his team affiliation on the sidebar.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've edited Huston Street's page
Or maybe it was something related to him, I don’t remember exactly
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do a lot of Wiki-editing, usually when I find something out of date, but sometimes just to improve syntax or to clarify something.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that a hobby or idle frustration with un-truth?
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Idle frustration
I don’t go perusing Wiki’s for editing. If I look one up and I think it needs editing, then I do it.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool, just teasing
I have too much time on my hands summer too…
Lots of things I could be doing though….
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't consider it too much time on my hands...
… as I am lucky enough to be in a field where I can essentially surf the web and watch television while doing all of my work.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look how many times the perfect_game page has been updated
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
that was exciting. And that’s easily the best perfect game or no-hitter saving play I’ve ever seen. Awesome stuff.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 2:13 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the first....
ChiSox perfecto since 1922.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 2:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nuno Betancourt? the awesome guitarist from the 80's hair band....
Now I cant think of it
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the Indians fans’ reaction at Let’s Go Tribe. Initial pissing and moaning gave way to acceptance and belief that it was a fair return. In general
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yo
A no hitter, a world series ring, and now a perfect game, while all along being nothing but complete quality. Not too shabby for a 38th round pick.
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That Wise catch...
goes in the books with Willie Mays over the shoulder catch and Ron Swoboda’s diving grab in the ‘69 series. That was some freakin’ history right there.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 2:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Fast worker
I’m in Sarasota, Fla. and watched the perfecto. Incredible. The Dwayne Wise catch must be seen to be believed. Goosebumps all the way. Best stat: Buehrle took just 32 minutes to get 27 outs! Now that’s fast!
by Curt in Florida on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Watching Buehrle work was like watching one of the 1966 world Series games on ESPN Classic, when Koufax would just get the ball and throw it.
Baseball was a far more beautiful game before hitters decided they need to step out after every pitch, adjust their batting gloves and get more camera time.
Get ball, throw ball.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That catch... wow.
That boxscore is awesome. And the White Sox getting some national love!
by Rockie4Ever on Jul 23, 2009 2:23 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson
against the Braves in 2004
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
Someone will think i am amazing baseball historian
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this has become the Perfect Game thread now
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We can't have a thread for everything.
Multithreading FTW
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check how Indians fans are reacting at Let's Go Tribe
They became happy when they saw Graham’s scouting report
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
and they think we might be pissed a bit
even though this was great trade for both sides
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
they dont know our pen...
but with kerry Wood,maybe they do
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats the contract status of Betancourt?
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Team Option for next year
$5.3 mil if I remember correctly?
by Muzia on Jul 23, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least he's no L. viscaino contract wise
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
meaning what
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I though he was in the 7 mill range multi-year
and we no likee the return on that
Other than the trade fodder for MArquis
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Vizcaino
was 2 years, 3.5M per
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again, I am hideously misinformed
and then work to spread my ignorance..
Can you tell i’m a public school teacher
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Can you tell i’m a public school teacher"
Hahahaha. Made me spit out my drink.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
His option year is kind of complicated.
Lots of performance based stuff going on. For example, it increases by a small percentage based on how many games he plays.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Games finished is the terminology.
I believe that is different from games played?
by Muzia on Jul 23, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Cot's
it is Games Finished and was probably a provision in case he became the closer.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
From REnck:
He has roughly $1.5 million left in salary this year and has a 2010 club option for $5.4 million. He was on the disabled list earlier this month with a strained right groin.
I believe he’d be a Type B free agent if the option is declined, so a sandwich pick
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betancourt Contract
According to Cot’s – $5.4 mil club option in ‘10 with escalators for Games Finished, which it doesn’t look like he will achieve. MLBTR post (7/12) projects that he would qualify to be a Type B FA in ‘10, if his option wasn’t picked up and we offered him arbitration.
Seems like we would pick up the option and then either trade him or offer him arbitration and take the pick (maybe picks if he could step it up for us.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we get him and a sandwich pick
who can replace Graham with any luck
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 23, 2009 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we get someone like Brothers with the sandwich pick
EPIC WIN.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way the option gets picked up in this climate...
Particularly given that the Rockies have to be looking at retaining Street for a considerable chunk, so it looks like he’ll become an FA. I like the Type B status, Type A would put him in a Juan Cruz type of situation where clubs would feel it’s not worth the draft pick to go after him.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great point
this is looking like a pretty low risk trade
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we decline option...
Don’t we have to offer him arbitration?
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
In order to get the compensation pick, yes...
But his arbitration award will likely be less than $5.4 million.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complete thought
Don’t we have to offer him arbitration in order to receive the pick?
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Read Rox Girl’s post above.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he accepts Arbitration
we get a reliever for next year too.
by realmenwearpurple on Jul 23, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Titles....
The indians fans seem more concerned with the fact that we use “titles” than about Bentacourt leaving….
by sg8335aa on Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
titles?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bold subject headings on comments...like right here...
they just have this section here.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m imitating an Indian’s fan. Can you tell?
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha…love it
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, you’re a tribesman too.
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put on a LeBron jersey, develop an over-the-top hatred of the Yankees,
lose your job, and go without a championship for any one of your favorite teams for 40 years. NOW you’re an Indians fan.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget to breed those little Middgets or widgetts in your backyard
To taunt Joba with
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t mock it until you try it…. it’s a sad badge of honor folks. Most suffering sports town of all time.
Oh, we definitely hate subject lines.
I just wanted to believe.
by mjmarble on Jul 23, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I love Cleveland fans.
I have good friends who are dyed-in-the-wool Cleveland sports fans. I hate that you didn’t get over on the Broncos in the 80s and that LeBron’s supporting cast quit on him in the East Finals this year. I’m pulling for you.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned this earlier this season,
But that’s actually a rule over there to not use them. Lookout Landing (Mariners) has it a rule that titles are mandatory.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's....strange
to each their own
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow thats awesome
I like to h avea choice on titles…Maybe I do …Maybe not
Some things need to be in bold…
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember this coming up before.
I’m curious why mods would instate either rule. Do you have any idea what their reasoning is?
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A title means a post is collapsable
If you’ve got big blocks of text in the comments of pictures, this is a handy weigh to cut down on the bandwidth load of a thread. Lookout Landing gets a lot of pics and fancy gif’s.
I think LGT might have their policy in place mostly as a n00b filter.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW!!!
I have no clue what all that really means but I am impressed as hell
I just like flashy, blinky things that plug in
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was supposed to say "or pictures"
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your homophone is showing.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have lots of n00bs
we don’t crack down too hard
we are the best blog
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and "way" not "weigh"
Oye… I’ve got too many things I’m working on at the same time right now.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I didn't know about the collapsing thing.
That does make a lot of sense.
And I can totally understand the desire for a n00b filter.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also say
that Betancourt wasn’t that good. Hmm..and they would probably know best. I guess we’ll see how he performs over here.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every group of fans bitches about all their relievers that aren’t Broxton/Street/Bell caliber. Nothing new there. Listen to the numbers.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other context, too: 2007 and 2008
He was awesome in 2007, then melted down (joining the rest of the staff) in game 7 of the ALCS. Then, likely due to overwork in 2007, he flat out stunk in 2008.
2009 is somewhere in between, but it’s easy to be frustated with a guy like that.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
With a DL stint
I read their comments, for the most part they were positive.
Slow delivery apparently though. Which if he’s in high pressure situations in a couple months, that could make those games that much more brutal on the heart.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean he takes a lot of time before throwing?
The anti-Buehrle? Yes, that can make the late innings excruciating! Esp. if the guy gets wild and throws a lot of pitches, fouls…only to walk a guy, go on to the next batter…
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers fans were ready to crucify Grilli when we acquired him last year
He had a sub-4.00 ERA and was fantastic for us…fwiw
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orioles fans laughed at us for taking Rodrigo Lopez in 07
that worked out great…until his arm exploded
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really liked lopez
did he get DFAd from Phily yet?
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
He threw 6 innings, 1 run the other night.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh nice
i had read somewhere a few weeks ago that with pedro coming it meant that lopez was most likely out. made me remember him from 07 when he was just dominent in my xbox season
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was ready to crucify the Rockies when they unacquired him this year.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was torqued off too
That’s what I told the Dallas morning news hit too. I haven’t checked lately, but last I saw, grilli had an era under three with Texas
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 3:51 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So what does our bullpen look like going into Friday?
Street
Betancourt
Daley
Morales
Speier
Chacin
Fogg
That means Rincon is DFA’d and Manny on the DL. Other thoughts?
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Many are speculating that Chacin will be taking Fogg's place.
Not a move I agree with, but it’s looking more and more likely.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly how i would do it
but others are saying Fogg is going to get DFA’d because Chacin will be inserted as our long reliever. Which could be true.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont understand the fogg talk
why would we bring up chacin to be long relief when fogg has pitched very well in that role? i think chacin is replacing rincon
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
Rincon just threw a very good inning the last time out. I agree that we should DFA Rincon..but Fogg has hardly been used all season.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because we haven't been using the long reliever, not because we haven't been using Fogg specifically.
It seems reasonable the same thing may happen to Chacin.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why im questioning why call him up in the first place
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I as well.
I am reserving the SLIGHT possibility that he was pulled only to be added in case the Betancourt deal fell through, and he’ll end up staying with AA (he hasn’t been officially promoted yet).
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
O’Dowd would announce it and then take it back. It just doesn’t make sense
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and he also gave up the game winning homer the night before.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The justification is that Fogg simply doesn't figure to do as well in that role as he is.
Which is true… I simply fail to realize why the same can’t be said of Rincon.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rincon's got better stuff than Fogg.
The problem is that it hasn’t been as effective thus far. If you’re to make a bet which will be better in the future, you would almost always go with the stuff.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
id go with the one who slays dragons
anyone with the nickname dragonslayer has to be good right?
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's way better than the beginning of the week
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds sweeet
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 23, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Buehrle just had to leave his press conference because the White House was calling.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You know Obama was watching that entire game
“Tell Harry Reid he can wait. Buerhle’s throwing a gem!”
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
http://twitter.com/blakebomber
by BlakeBomber on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love it
Obama-nator probably watched the last three outs just like us
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Ownership was willing to open its pockets to acquire Betancourt. Gotta love it. And good job DOD
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
RafBet won't cost more than $1.5mil the rest of the year
not a huge burden financially
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will make the money back this weekend against the Giants
with the expected attendance numbers
by Muzia on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Already got my tix
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i got mine for two of the games
tomorrow ill be sitting on the patio of that restuarant in right field. cant think of the name right now. never sat there before. looking forward to it
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mountain Ranch Club.
I actually performed inside there once for a wedding.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightenedinmate#2 on Jul 23, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
performed?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 8:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder when RafBet
will be with the club. I doubt he will be available to pitch tomorrow.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I just read
on our official website that Chacin will be throwing middle relief. HUH? Maybe that is the end of Rincon then
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Middle relief now, eh?
That does suggest Rincon over Fogg… but we still also have reports that he’ll be in long relief.
We’ll find out soon enough.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude I have a raging clue to see this kid Chacin pitch in a MLB game
I am beside myself in happyness…
Oh Rockies gods
Please be good to us, do not toy with our human baseball emotions
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:47 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
where does the term clue come from?
ive seen it posted in this thread before but i dont get the reference
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i hated that epsiode
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
South park episode...it means hard -on
Yeah and it wasnt very good, just a memorable line for some reason
I’m sorry to be so immature…I am going to the corner
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i understood what it meant
just dont remember the episode. but i havent watched much south park lately.
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh...so I once again needlessly insulted and baught the inteligence level
of this blog down….Nice going…My plan is working
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha.
i was going to say the term that i use but it might be a little too graphic for these boards
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, sometimes I lack a filter...
but I don’t mean to be offensive…It just happens
by El Paso Jeff on Jul 23, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well you didnt offend me
just confused. but then again im a very hard one to offend. years of watching Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia will do that to someone
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha hilarity
Fourth reaction — couldn’t we have gotten Heather Graham? Or at least Lauren Graham?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol
I keep hearing we’re trading away Spilly to the Phillies.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 2:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Spilly the Philly
At least the name works.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weird
Apparently the same home plate umpire called Buerhle’s no hitter and today’s perfect game. And one of the other umpires worked both games, too.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 2:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Conspiracy!!!!
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody know anything about the Saturday night promotion, "Colorado Rockies Photo Night"?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 3:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Graham's Value
So for a 23-year old, 2007 5th Rnd pick we get 2.5 months of Betancourt AND a ’10 pick OR an additional year of Betacourt and an ’11 pick – possibly two if he can pick up his game a bit.
Not too bad a trade
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 3:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned this above, but him getting to Type A status might not actually be a good thing...
As giving up that pick will make most teams shy away from him. I think he’s pretty safely in the B range unless he picks up a lot of wins, which Elias weighs heavily for relievers for some reason.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Missed that from above.
TGFPR!!
by jlot10 on Jul 23, 2009 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
facepalm of the day
Guy on radio says “in light of marquia’ blister, we need halladay more than ever. Trade the farm if necessary. This team is about the now. Don’t be shy about trading pitchers at AA. Those guys are a long ways from helping the big club anyway”. Uhh
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 3:44 PM MDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Same attitude that stuck us with Hampton, Neagle, and a decade of blahhhhh.
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same story yesterday, too (on the Fan)
Sandy was fwhee-ing on about the Monforts being cheap, and how they won’t do anything to help improve the team. Oi. They know lots about the Broncos, but they absolutely clue-impaired when it comes to the Rockies.
by SoxRoxFan on Jul 23, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets be honest here
sandy clough and mike evans dont really know much about the broncos either
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver sports radio...
…is painful. I don’t remember it being this bad when I was growing up.
by DomCasual on Jul 23, 2009 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i end up listening to the national stuff more than local
i still like scott and al but mostly cause they just goof around. they’re still idiots when they actually talk about the sports (although i think hastings knows what hes talking about when it comes to basketball. alfred, despite playing in the nfl says some of the stupidest things when it comes to the broncos)
neither of them ever offers anything of intelligence when it comes to the rockies however. like i said, they goof around a lot which makes their show fun and enjoyable to listen to
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed Marc soicher
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 4:51 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Do not, under any circumstances, mention Drew Soicher to my brother.
He will punch you.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only ray of hope....
in denver radio is 1510’s afternoon team of Joel Klatt and Nate Kreckman. I actually heard an intelligent baseball discussion on that show last week, making it the first I’ve ever heard in this town.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
joel klatt the former CU QB?
haha i once met some random girl who said her sister was dating klatt. i told her that sucks cause klatt is terrible and she almost punched me in the face then went on to say joel plans on playing in the NFL. i just laughed and walked away
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was actually really good at CU.
Doesn’t mean it would translate to the NFL. Great family, though.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Klatt was so overrated
and i went to CU during the time he was there
by purplesocks on Jul 24, 2009 2:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Klatt was mediocre at best...
this from a CSU fan.
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 24, 2009 7:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So much so that he's in a booth
and Caleb Hanie is Cutler’s backup
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 24, 2009 7:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never been a huge fan of "over/under" rated
I think Klatt was just about properly appreciated while he was at CU. He played pretty well on occasion, but wasn’t ever going to give CU the extra shove when they needed it.
However, I will always appreciate him for two things:
1. When he got concussed at the UT game he had to put his arms around two player/trainers and stumble off the field. My friends and I got endless entertainment of “Doing the Klatt,” which basically consists of putting your arms like they are around invisible people and stumbling around wildly. We are bad people.
2. We were at the Walrus in Boulder the night before what would have been his draft. We saw him with a girl who was not his wife and several other football players. My friend starts yelling, “you’re married! What are you doing?” They just ignored us.
by denver_sc on Jul 24, 2009 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know Joel Klatt was doing local radio until the other day.
But of course he’s good. He went to Pomona. And, of course, he did play in the minor leagues and played DI football.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 5:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably because Bob Martin was on every afternoon. The best Denver sportscaster ever.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 6:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good day
Just got home from work, and gotta say it’s a been a good off day for the Rockies! Chacin up is very interesting of course. Then when I first heard about Betancourt I started trying to figure out who we’d have to give up. I feared it would be something like Hynick and Graham and I was hoping it would maybe be something like Graham and Rike. But just Graham…. Very good trade for us! Nothing against Conor who I think could be a very good reliever or serviceable starter, but I figured the Indians would take advantage of us since our bullpen has been so shakey. Gotta hand it to DOD, I can’t think of a desperation move where he overpaid to fill in a need. No Bard/Gerut for Jacob Cruz deals. No Andy Ashby for Greg Harris. Good job DOD!
Now as for what to do with the bullpen….. I think I’m going to step into something here, but I hope Fogg stays and Speir is the odd man out (although I’d be okay with Q being shipped out and going with an extra pitcher as well). I know Speir’s an original Gen R guy, but I’ve just never had much faith in him. I think Fogg brings more to the table as a long reliever and spot starter if neccesary. You could argue that Chacin is now the spot starter, but personally I’d hate to see a young arm have to go from starter to relief and back to the occasional starter/long guy. Let the wiley old veteran figure out how to do that job.
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 3:57 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
we cant get rid of Q and go with an extra pitcher
who would back up our middle infield then?
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Been thinking about that
Q is there for a reason and I understand that, but the poor guy gets an at-bat every other week. And, we do still have Atkins who is going nowhere in a trade. Barmes can play SS, and Stewie can play 2B. Yes, if there’s an injury to Tulo or Barmes we’d be in a world of hurt, but really that would be the case regardless and we’d have to call up one of our AAAA guys to fill in. I’m just thinking in Denver, with a still unsettled (but much better) bullpen, that the extra pitcher may be doable since we do have a guy like Atkins sitting on the bench and guys like Barmes and Stewie that can move around the infield. Not promoting the idea. Just saying…..
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free mike McCoy!
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 4:54 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
O'Dowd was indeed responsible for the Jacob Cruz fiasco...
which was even more reprehensible since he came to Colorado from Cleveland and should have known the Indians’ personnel (including Cruz). The trade was in 2001; O’Dowd joined the Rockies at the end of the 1999 season.
And less than a month later, he traded Chine Figgins for the infamous Kimera Bartee (0-for-12). Although Figgins hadn’t done much offensively in the lower minors, that deal still rankles.
Both moves were in reaction to Todd Hollandsworth’s serious injury when he was hitting .368 and tearing up the league. He fouled a ball off his shin and what was thought to be a minor injury turned into a season-ender.
by alex colfax on Jul 23, 2009 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh God!
Barteeeeeeeeeee! Why did you bring that up???? And then to remind me it too was O’Dowd. Now all I can say is: Look how far our little Danny has come!
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That we have....
…to go back that far for O’Dowd’s bad deals says a lot about his skills as a trader.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 4:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn Clevelanders
They’re bagging on our comment bylines over there at Let’s Go Tribe.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
by wtnelson on Jul 23, 2009 4:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Aren't we bagging on them higher in this thread?
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't read it
I just popped in to give that sentiment. I see it now, though. But, we can bag on our own bylines. Nobody else can, though.
If I say the Rockies bullpen sucks, that’s fine. If a Dodgers fan says that? I’ll punch him in the mouth and say something about their Pregnant Manny.
"Any newspaperman who speaks of the 'music' of rolling presses is either faking or he has had so much to drink that he will next sentimentalize appendicitis."
-- Roger Kahn
by wtnelson on Jul 23, 2009 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stewart can play 2nd base if needed and if tulo needs a day off move Barmes to shortstop with atkins at third.
by Rebel14 on Jul 23, 2009 4:04 PM MDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
the reply button is tricky huh
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So bullpen done
now time to get Roy Halladay.
What were the B listers that Woody Paige thought up? do those
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 4:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen
I sure hope this is all that the bullpen needs, but to me the last big question is Morales. If he can keep it together and get the lefties out…. I think we’re in pretty good shape. Then it’s time to have Woody put together the package of 7 or 8 failed prospects and career minor leaguers for Halladay.
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Morales
but after the other night the jury IS still out on him. A strong lefty in the pen would be nice (not Randy Flores!). Sherrill would be nice…but only at the right price.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Morales
was a future rotation candidate, and only in the bullpen out of necessity this year?
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the lack of relief depth in the organization after this year, and an excess of starting pitching...
… I think Morales being converted to a reliever long term is a possibility, especially if he does well this season.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather package and trade
Because I feel as if the next 3 years will bring up a steady stream of relief pitching.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 4:59 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind a trade either, as long as it didn't leave a hole somewhere.
I just meant that converting Morales to a reliever long term really isn’t out of the question.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't we get a LOOGY in free agency?
the market’s a lot cheaper this year
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they will
but a POWER lefty arm…is a rare thing. as a starter or in the pen. Given that the Rockies have a wealth of starters Morales value may be in the pen….or in a trade……or going back to a starter
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is
But we’re thinking about how to compete now and not worrying as much about next year.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 23, 2009 4:57 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The more and more I hear about Connor Graham
the more I’m ticked off that we gave him up for Betancourt….I mean, I like actually having a good set-up guy for once, but I keep on hearing that Graham is going to be this big, imposing set-up guy with 97 MPH heat and a plus slider. He sounds like Weathers except he’s still a starter and he isn’t injured.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 4:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah but he probably wont be setting up for at least another two years
and thats only if he makes it that far. he could easily flame out before then. lets get our bullpen together now and make a run this year.
prospects are just future unkowns. i dont understand everyone’s idea of not every trading them to win now
by purplesocks on Jul 23, 2009 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
a bit erratic…97 is no good if you can’t throw strikes
by moomacher on Jul 23, 2009 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look....
if he were a total bum, we couldn’t have gotten a big league set up guy for him. So, he might turn out to be decent. Or he may never pitch in the bigs. either way, our bullpen just got better and our playoff hopes are improved.
That’s a win.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how do you know Betancourt doesn't flame out with us?
Just saying
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you suspect he will?
As I mentioned above, pitching against the Giants, Padres and D-backs lineups is a far cry from the Rays, Red Sox, Yankees and Tigers. At this point it’s far more likely that Graham flames out than Betancourt. I’m not saying it’s a guarantee that he does well, I’m just saying the Rockies got the less risky end of this deal and the cost was some upside.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but any trade for a reliever makes me nervous.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to being a contender...
The good news is that the Rockies are rolling two pretty good dice at once here with both Chacin and Betancourt. If one does turn out to be a dud, let’s hope and pray that the other does not and we still get some kind of an upgrade.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
2007 was so much easier, we already had an amazing bullpen
I seriously do expect both Betancourt and Chacin to be big improvements to the bullpen, but the fear of trading for a reliever comes because of the many failed trades I’ve seen over the years (cough cough Gagne cough cough Dotel) which makes me a tad paranoid of trading for relievers. let’s hope that this trade works out as well as Affeldt did in 2006-2007.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
07
but our starting rotation was really scary. Morales was forced into duty early, and we had some spot starters (what was the guy that started one game they signed out of Japan?)…and Fogg was one of the rotation.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That late 2007 rotation was ridiculous!
Francis, Fogg, Jimenez, Morales, and some combination of Mark Redman/Elmer Dessens/Ramon Ortiz
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
The fact that we had a strong finish with one legit pitcher (Francis), one fifth starter (Fogg), two inexperienced youngsters (Jimenez, Morales), and a trio of journeyman AAAA veterans is pretty amazing, considering.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh
I thought you meant ridiculous as in ridiculously GOOD and I was like well we had no 4th starter. Lol
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
just to add to that.
I think the bullpen was the biggest key to the 07 season. You can have, say, Roy Halladay pitching and still lose the game because your bullpen has a heinous 10-run inning (/remembers that game in Pittsburgh, jams head into a brick wall several times/
Anywho, if you don’t have a bullpen (or if your bullpen is Huston Street + a bunch of hobos, like we had not so very long ago) no lead is guaranteed, no matter how good your starting pitcher pitched.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If....
you frame every trade that way, you never make trades. You’ve got to take a shot now and then if you want to win.
besides, if Conor Graham were so hot, we’d have been following him every step of the way until now. That he’s largely unknown to all but the most involved fans tells you that his sudden emergence as a future star may be just a little contrived.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Graham had been pitching like a beast lately
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's nice
but he’s a 23 and a half year old guy pitching his 3rd season in A ball. Not saying he won’t be a big leaguer someday, but that’s not enough to stop you from getting a decent set up guy when you desperately need one.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
3rd season in A ball...
While true, you’ve got to know that the minor leagues aren’t what they used to be. Decent 23 yr old pitchers in A ball are not that uncommon in deep systems. That Cleveland immediately promoted him to AA shows that other teams would probably have had him higher already.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my point was....
an almost 24 year old 6’6" flamethrower had better damn well be dominating at A ball, or else he shouldn’t be in a uniform. That said, the percentage of big flamethrowing A ball dominating pitchers who go on to be dominant big league pitchers isn’t necessarily so great.
That said, it’s all irrelevant. the Rox got a solid setup guy they needed desperately for a pitcher who’s not in their immediate plans and isn’t considered a sure thing. For a team that’s battling for a playoff spot, that’s called Standard Operating Procedure. I’m 1000% fine with it.
by BroJB on Jul 23, 2009 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My problem was
that once Indians fans figured out his scouting report, they were all getting happy with the return and thinking that they got a future set-up man, which I believed because the last two years he had been dominating.
And again, I’m just paranoid with reliever trades in general because the success/fail rate is just so random.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
While most trades turn out to favor one side or the other...
Initially they should look like a win-win situation. I know there have been a couple of trades lately that aren’t like this (the other Betancourt trade comes immediately to mind), but this one really doesn’t look like that on the surface. That Cleveland fans are happy with the return should reflect this, and Rockies fans should also be happy. We get a solid reliever, likely set-up man for a stretch drive, plus a likely compensation draft pick in 2010, and they get a potentially better set-up man for the future.
I understand the paranoia with reliever trades, but it should be some consolation that most of our bullpen acquisitions via trade lately have turned out pretty well (Street, Affeldt, Grilli) although there was that Macri for Ramon Ortiz trade, so the record isn’t perfect.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to remember you saying that Graham was a very underrated prospect a few months ago
just as you said Parker Frazier and Esmil Rogers were way underrate
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers isn't underrated anymore...
And Graham’s probably not going to be either. I may back off on Frazier, I really wanted to see him pitch for myself this year.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 6:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is also why you build up your system
Rox Girl is making a lot of sense as usual.
Betancourt is not untouchable but is a step up from the usual reliever the Rockies get. The team is also on a playoff run and has one major weakness. They could have relied solely on callups but there’s danger in that, too: you could lose games while trying to figure out who’s ready to pitch the tough innings.
So take the risk and trade some of the pitching depth for help. You could make no trades, and have no risk of a minor leaguer going elsewhere and being successful. However, standing pat is also a risk.
The Rockies rarely trade prospects for major league help. I wouldn’t recommend they make a habit of it in subsequent years, esp not for short-term help like BEtancourt, but I suspect that’s pretty far from what O’Dowd and ownership have in mind anyway.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
great points
Once a team builds it’s systems, you can have “extra” guys like Graham that are pretty good….but still extra pieces
Pieces that can be traded for missing pieces.
And if you need money…they are almost as good as cash.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was the fact that
Rogers, Chacin, Deduno, Weiser, and Roe were all ahead of him,.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So was Aneury Rodriguez
before Hammel time
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 6:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Aneury, Graham, and Nicasio were the second tier of starting pitching prospects
now only Nicasio’s left.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Hollingsworth, Chris Balcom-Miller,
Rob Scahill and Craig Bennigson are looking like at least a couple of them can be elevated to that tier. Maybe even Dan Perkins. Plus we add Rex Brothers and probably Tyler Matzek to the top tier. Really, the second tier probably won’t be wanting for talent as long as we have the people scouting and signing these players that we do.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the one's who are available to other teams , should've clarified, my bad
Hollingsworth is the only one who’s eligible to be traded, and the rest have to wait till a year after the draft, right?
And yeah, I agree, the Rockies scouting system is awesome, they did a hell of a job in this year’s draft.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's take a look at our bullpen
Now that we’ve acquired Betancourt let’s see what the Rockies have now. I’m gonna guess the Rockies DFA Juan Rincon.
Daley – Middle relief
Fogg – Long relief
Chacin – Middle relief.
Morales – 7th inning man or lefty specialist
Speier – middle relief or righty specialist
Street – Closer
Betancourt – Setup man
This is a solid bullpen. Definitely better than what we’ve ever had this season. What do y’all think?
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 6:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's still not as good as what we thought our bullpen would give us Opening Day
Heck, we were hoping for Betancourt type production from Corpas. But it IS one giant step. I’ll feel a LOT better handing a lead over to the bullpen in the 8th with RB than Juan Rincon and co. So we need 7 innings from our starters, which has NOT been so rare for our rotation this year
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 6:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The seventh inning should be just fine too...
Especially if we keep Rincon over Fogg as adding him to Chacin and Morales gives us three pretty solid throwers to work with should any of them get into jams. The carryover effect should also strengthen the sixth and earlier innings as Tracy won’t have to worry about burning his only good reliever if there’s an early high leverage situation.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matchups for Rincon
Now that Betancourt is around to take some of the load, if they keep Rincon and use him in late innings, they might want to try to get him in with the platoon advantage. SSS and all, but he has big splits in 2008-2009 and in his 3 Rockies flub-ups, lefties have done some big damage (though in the Atlanta game, batters from both sides did damage, e.g., McCann’s leadoff double and Diory Hernandez’s 2-RBI double).
Unfortunately, Speier and Daley also have sizable splits. (Maybe Daley: his minor league #‘s seem better than his Rockies #’s so far).
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that a LOOGY may be the final step for the bullpen, not Sherrill but
would anyone be opposed to trading for Joe Beimel? The Nationals just want to get younger at this point, so I’m thinking maybe Jonathan Herrera and/or Alan Johnson for Beimel? Nationals get a live arm and/or a plus defender for a LOOGY who’s done pretty damned good since the end of May.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson's not going to return anything.
And I mean nothing. Teams can just wait a couple of days and get similar pitchers with big league experience off of somebody’s DFA list, or maybe call up some old arm from the independent leagues. Paul Byrd’s still available, for instance. Most probably have at least two or three pitchers similar to him in AAA already anyway, I’d guess that this includes the Nationals (I just looked, there’s Collin Balester, essentially the same pitcher).
Herrera might not have much value at the moment, either, it’s hard to say. I guess he’d be more valuable to them than Pete Orr, but not Alberto Gonzalez. I don’t think it’d be enough to entice them.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who do you think the Nationals would want?
I can’t imagine them wanting much
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOOGY's have some value and Rizzo's pretty shrewd when it comes to talent.
He’d know if we’re just offering junk. As with the Betancourt and Hammel trades, a good way to evaluate a return is to think of who in the system could become at least the player that Beimel is now some time down the road. Matt Reynolds, maybe?
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're thinking about lefties with value
I don’t think Reynolds cuts it; he’s almost 25 and he’s only got his feet wet in Double AA. Age may not matter as much with relievers, but I’m sure it’s something against him.
I could see Greg Smith for Beimel maybe? Maybe that’s too much, or too little?
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think, in a way, it's both too much and too little.
I think Smith is more valuable to us than we generally realize, simply because he hasn’t played a direct role in our season. As a result, I tend to, possibly irrationally, give him a bit of leeway when it comes to organizational importance. In other words, I don’t feel confident that Beimel will give more to the Rockies organization than Greg Smith can.
At the same time, Smith does not figure to be anything special at the major league level short of an innings eater, while Beimel, to at least a small degree, has been an impact pitcher in a major league bullpen, as we’ve seen on the Dodgers. Beimel has successfully done 7th and 8th inning setup for multiple years. Smith has successfully functioned as an upper rotation starter in an organization that traded away all of their real upper rotation starters. Beimel’s role is obviously a better looking talking point.
Ultimately, I’d argue that Smith to the Nationals for Beimel will not end up being of a particular benefit to either team.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
a couple of points
Have you seen the Nationals rotation? Smith steps in and starts right now for them
Smith is going to be pushed aside in the Rockies organization pretty quickly. He’s just depth and insurance for the Rockies right now.
Smith for Beimel would actually be a good trade, and may favor the Nats a little.
Now there is that little thing about Beimel not wanting to pitch in Colorado, and turned down all the Rockies offers this last winter to sign with the Nationals.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am well familiar with all pieces involved.
My opinion is unswayed.
I tried to make it clear in my post, but apparently it didn’t come across. I do not consider Smith as a pitcher to be anything special by himself. You’re right, he’s nothing more than insurance. But he was little more than insurance in his year with the A’s either, and he flourished regardless. His importance to the organization is in this, not in become a cog in the rotation.
You should Know by now that I am very conservative when it comes to minor league starting depth, and I horde it. If you disagree, that’s perfectly fine, because I may be possessive of people like Smith or Hirsh to a fault; but don’t assume I’m unaware of the situation because I arrive at this conclusion.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can never have enough starting pitching
BUT…in a good healthy organization, New starting pitching should be coming along all the time (and if you look around the league, you know the Rockies are WAY ahead of the pack on this).
a successful franchise has to trade the extras, at what ever position they may be…and if it’s pitching…..they are even more richer
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This goes beyond just having another starting pitching prospect in the mix.
While from the distant standpoint, just scanning over their names and positions, that makes one individual player like Smith seem less important in the grand scheme of things.
But what Smith did with the A’s is notable for a specific reason:
He came straight into the fray unexpectedly (much like Daley), and took on a role not only above his age and experience, but above his skillset to begin with, and provided a half decent shadow of a top of the rotation starter.
I can see the arguments now. Yes, it was in a pitchers park. Yes, most of the time little was on the line, so the overall effect it had was minimal. No, there is absolutely no guarantee it would happen again.
But the fact that it happened ONCE should put his name higher on the list of priorities. Say, next season, Ubaldo Jimenez suddenly goes down due to injury. Our SP options are thin: many of them are struggling at AAA, and some are hurt.
We need to choose between three young SPs to come up for 4-6 weeks to fill the hole. Would you rather have one of the two rookies with no MLB experience, or would you like to give Smith a try, who has a note on his resume that reminds us that he debuted his career as a #2 starter in a below average rotation and held his own.
Ultimately, Smith brings just enough of a tuft more of insurance than other insurance does. Yes, no impact. Yes, pitcher’s park. Yes, may not happen that way again.
But I place more value on this bullet point than you seem to. I’d rather trade one of the other insurance SPs without this note instead.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see where you're coming from
but here’s the thing:
1) Chacin is getting major league experience this year. If any starter goes down next year, it’s him who will be getting the call.
2) We have Franklin Morales to step into a starter’s role. it may take him a week, but it’s not much of a problem. Besides, he’ll get a starter’s workload in ST next year.
3) We have Rogers, who if he’s not already on the major league roster by next year, will have a season of Triple A already on his belt, and is MLB ready.
4) We have Brandon Hynick, who will get dibs after Chacin due to the fact that he’s spent a whole year performing above average in Triple A in the worst pitcher’s park in AAA.
5) Knowing Dan O’Dowd, he will sign at least 2 or 3 experienced starters like Adam Eaton for even more pitching depth.
Greg Smith is not rehabbing well off his injury, is below average at Triple A, though he does have the resume of last year, giving him some value for a trade.
Trust me, if the Nationals would accept Alan Johnson or just a live arm for Beimel, we wouldn’t even be discussing this.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Morales is the only one of those guys who has starting MLB experience.
I don’t care how exciting Chacin, Rogers, and even Hynick look to us. Certainly a lot better than Smith; the first two could be top of the rotation starters. Hynick could be MLB caliber on one level or another.
But just because these guys figure to be better pitchers than Smith does NOT mean they’re going to be better than Smith coming into an MLB rotation suddenly. Maybe they would. But Smith already did that once, albeit in different conditions.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the WORST way to evaluate talent
just because a person hasn’t done something, doesnt mean they CAN’T do it.
The very circle of life is about starting new..and pushing the old up…or out
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly Redhawk
if we’re talking in terms of talent, then Smith is bumped way down to the bottom of this list, in between the minor league signings and probably tied with Hynick.
And there’s something that Smith has done that none of the other people in the list of players: get injured, and have a bad rehab from it. That’s an extreme factor on who gets the call if someone is injured. You talk about Smith like he just came off of last year, when this year completely turned the tables on him.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, careful with that "pushing the old out" business :)
Some of us might bristle at that.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's ironic about that
is that Redhawk is easily in the top 10 percentile of Rowbots’ age
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've got
Redhawk, mondogarage, pinchhitlancepainter, pedalpusher and who else? I would put him in the top 5%
"We made too many wrong mistakes." ~Yogi Berra
"The ballplayer who loses his head, who can't keep his cool, is worse than no ballplayer at all." ~Lou Gehrig
JFK
by jrockies on Jul 23, 2009 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're missing the point.
The reason people project things in the first place is so they can construct a plan around their organizational tools.
Nobody is saying Smith won’t turn out to be something better. But we are making a guess. That guess counts for something? No, it’s not precognitive. But it’s a category to file him under until those evaluations change.
That’s how all analysis of talent works.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what you're arguing here is that you like
The floor that Smith provides, not necessarily the ceiling. This is fair, but there are others with that high a floor out there. Remember how easily we acquired both Marquis and Hammel this year, it’s just a matter of ferreting out who’s undervalued.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I agree.
Once again ( I sound like a broken record here, I swear some people are not reading all of my posts), Smith’s floor has been established in the major league level, albeit in different conditions. I feel comfortable that it is MORE likely I know what I am getting with Smith than I know what I’m getting with a youngster coming into this situation for the first time.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really disagree with this
Greg Smith doesn’t have much to offer to this organization anymore. The Rockies have an absolute crapload of starting pitchers who could start right this second (Hynick, Chacin, Rogers, Morales) and it would take a really bad set of injuries for Smith to even sniff the rotation. However, the Nationals need as many people who can pitch at the majors now as possible, and Smith is a lefty (which they need) who fits in as like a 3 to them. Smith could be very valuable to a horrible Nationals rotation.
For the side of the Rockies, I’m going to say exactly what you said: Beimel is an impact LOOGY that gives our bullpen a second lefty and lets Morales slip out of the LOOGY role to play a role as a set-up man along with Betancourt. Beimel gives the Rockies one last piece of a playoff bullpen, and is an impact.
It may favor the Nationals a bit, because starters are more valuable as relievers, but for a guy who has no future in the Rockies organization, turning him into a valuable bullpen piece is a great option. Smith just flat out improves the Nationals rotation and keeps them from rushing or hurting more arms.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with all of this
but the real point that makes it favor the Nationals is Smith is young and controlable for what…3 more years? or is it 4?
And Beimel has only a one year contract.
Still…if the Nationals balanced this with a prospect in a position the Rockies are short in, say mid level corner position player. I say go for it
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The nationals are in no way shape or form able to trade away prospects
They have only one mid level corner position player in their top 20, and he’s their third best prospect.
Besides, we should be lucky if Smith has any value at all: he’s an injury prone BOR starter.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
to the Nats...he would be their #3 starter!
and controlable.
But that doesn’t mean Smith is that great I guess
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Being something in the Nationals rotation means nothing. They are just looking for someone who is young and is cost controlled. After this season, Beimel will mean nothing to them.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think this trade
highly is in the Nationals favor.
But that doesn’t mean it’s not good for the Rockies, just needs a little balancing
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beimel a LOOGY?
Small point, but why does everyone call Beimel a LOOGY?
He doesn’t have big splits. His career OPS against against lefties doesn’t look far off from the league avg for LHP vs. LH’s.
I mean, he’d be better than running Rincon or Speier out against lefties, but he doesn’t seem like one of those lefties with special anti-lefty skills. (Grabow seems similar.)
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think some people just refer to all left handers as loogys.
Someone below noted they thought it meant left handed pitcher in general, and didn’t realize it specifically referred to a lefty specialist.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or like me
and this case I ASSUME a left reliever is a LOOGY unless I know better (ala Affeldt)
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that makes sense
a most lefties seem to be used w/the platoon advantage whenever managers can swing it. Even the extreme guys like Mike Myers and Javier Lopez end up facing righties (alas).
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beimel has had some good spilts this year
1.06 WHIP vs L 1.52 WHIP vs R
It’s bad to use OPS with LOOGYs, because one major hit changes it. He has 2 HRs vs L, and 1 HR vs R, changing the SLG and OPS drastically.
He’s harder to hit off the left side.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
If sample size is an issue, why would WHIP be better? If someone doesn’t have a lot of PA’s against lefties, they won’t have many innings against him either. It will also blur the effect of giving up a lot of extra base hits.
To me, OPS is most a problem when someone veers towards the extremes of high OBP or high SLG w/low OBP. I didn’t look at that re. Beimel.
fwiw, I was using Beimel’s career OPS mark to try to avoid some of the sample size issues.
Leave Dexter alone! You're lucky he even performs for you!
by FooMan on Jul 23, 2009 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna use Sabermetrics
Look here: I think it’s realistic to say that Greg Smith reached his ceiling last year: I doubt that he has a season like that again, due to his injury this year, to the park he pitched at, and a fluke BABIP. His WAR that year was 1.6, and had a 4.82 FIP. That is average-below aver.age When Beimel pitched for the Dodgers in real situations, he was a .7 WAR pitcher. Let’s say that Smith is a 1 WAR player for the rest of his service time, which is realistic considering that 2008 was his season. That’s 5 WAR. Beimel can provide about .3 WAR the rest of the year. I know, it’s bad. However, Beimel is ranked to be a Type B free agent, meaning that he’ll bring in a comp pick, making him worth like 2 WAR more (I forget how much it is) I’d see a C prospect needed from the Nationals to make this even.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still not denying that Beimel is a better player than Smith.
I just want to see them give up somebody other than Smith in this hypothetical trade.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
this was replying to Redhawk’s desire for a prospect to be added along with Beimel.
Seriously, though, I said Smith only as a suggestion and it blew up completely. I’d much rather do Herrera/Alan Johnson than Smith, but apparently it’d get denied.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would.
I mean, I’d hope you’d at least agree that Smith is more valuable than both of them.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You realize for a trade to happen
you have to help BOTH teams right? I realize Woody Paige and most of the Denver Post commentators don’t…
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nats just want
young people at this point. Beimel is walking for sure after this year.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Type B Compensation is worth about 0.6 WAR ($2.5 million) or so
Eschew Obfuscation!
by Jeff Aberle on Jul 23, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read my above post.
I tried to be clear in the initial one, but failed. Once again, I do not see Smith’s presence in the organization as anything more than what you say it is. I just think it’s far more important than you do.
If we want Beimel, give up somebody else.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would you trade?
I originally suggested Alan Johnson or Jon Herrera, and Rox Girl suggested Matt Reynolds.
What’s the point of having Smith sit and rot then eventually become horrible like Hirsh, or a AAAA player? He’s not making the majors unless he somehow becomes more important than Hynick, Morales, Chacin, or Rogers. He’s tenth in the rotation depth. It’s a five man rotation. If we want possible last resort starters, that’s what Adam Eaton and minor league signings are for.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hirsh is different, because he's had significant upside attached to his name for a while.
Smith hasn’t. Hirsh was supposed to be more than an insurance starter. Smith really isn’t. I don’t see Smith sitting and rotting at AAA, not realizing some sort of unused potential like Hirsh has been post-injury. I see this as exactly what Smith’s entire career will be.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I agree
But I think you might be overrating Smith a little bit
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that bullpen = success
i think we are ready for the stretch run. If anything trade outkins for another RP if we need to do so
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 23, 2009 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, don't trade Atkins
He’s an important bench bat who has actually been very good since the beginning of June. Plus, he’s the best insurance we have if Stewart or Helton goes down.
As I suggested, dangle Smith or someone from the AAA rotation or one of the A+ or AA relievers for a LOOGY and that bullpen is playoff caliber.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
no body will take Smith probably
too injury prone lol
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 23, 2009 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Smith either
Hynick for a Loogy. Smith hits the 9th inning RBI pinch-hit single to win game 163.
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hynick can provide so much more to this organization than Smith can
Smith is the first gone in my mind.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't mean Seth Smith do you?
We’re talking about Greg Smith.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So like
is it too soon or too optimistic for me to start envisioning a bullpen next year of Street, Buchholz, Corpas, Betancourt, and Weathers?
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 6:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Buccholz I hear isn't going to be back until June, Corpas will be back, and Weathers is likely a Septemebrr callup at most
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
Buchholz is back that late? I guess Weathers will have to regain a feel for his pitches, and he had poor command to begin with…
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buchholz isn't GUARANTEED to be gone to June...
… but getting him back earlier is being pretty optimistic, to say the least. It’s never possible to predict the future when it comes to healing from surgery like this, but it takes time, and a lot of patience. We can say with 99% certainty that he will be nowhere close to ready to start the year, and will have to add the equivalent of Spring Training to get back into shape plus extended rehab to get his form back to his ultimate down time before he is ready to come back.
I’d say, if anything, it’s more likely he comes back later than June than earlier than June.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and on top of that
guys coming back from Tommy John surgery need a few months to improve after they start pitching, so even when he returns…he won’t be the same for a long time
if ever
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's misleading
TJ success rate is really high. It make take next season to regain command, but his chances of returning to form are much more likely than him bottoming out.
Labrums are a much different story.
by David OhNo on Jul 23, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
TJ surgery success rate is really high NOW
but I still remember when it was not so high, which is were my comment comes from.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Morales. And Speier.
That would be all we need I think. I’m going to go out on a limb and say Speier will surprise us all and post very solid numbers the rest of the season.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I’ve been a Speier doubter for too long and I think I’m just going to go with your optimism. Come on Speier, make me look like an idiot!
by IowaRockie on Jul 23, 2009 7:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we keep Betancourt...
I think he becomes a free agent and takes off. I think O’Dowd will have some bullpen building to do this winter, which frankly is the way it should be given how up and down relievers can be.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh true
I forgot that it was an option. Damn
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I highly doubt Betancourt will be in Colorado next year. I can’t see them spending 5.4 million for a (maybe) setup guy. Unless he agrees to rework his contract into a multiyear deal. At his age, it is quite possible.
by Toxicadam on Jul 23, 2009 7:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, sorry for this dumb question..
But I have no idea what some of those abbreviations mean. LIke OTOH. and there’s a couple others that I’ve seen that that I have no clue on..the only one I know is IMO. But yeah someone help me please :(
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 7:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You'd have to let me know which ones you don't know.
I’m not going to type out every single internet acronym I can think of. :p
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've only seen like 3
that I dunno. I think one of them starts with a W (not WHIP)
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they're stat abbreviations, chances are someone like RMN, Posiedon, or jabberwocky has written an article about them.
Type it into the Purple Row search engine, or into a regular search engine.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wireless Home Installation Wizard
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
oohhhh, I bet I know which one you might be thinking about....
WXRL…
Wins eXpected over something something…
It’s a Baseball Prospectus stat used to measure relievers since some innings are more valuable to winning a game than others (see David Ohno’s points in the above discussion on Josh Fogg). It’s actually a pretty valuable stat with a name that makes normal people hate stat people.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
FOUND ONE FINALLY!!
I said starts with “W”..well it’s FWIW. Someone help please? I dunno what that is.
by GoRockies!! on Jul 23, 2009 9:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used IIRC today,
If I Recall Correctly..
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used ATM
At The Moment
not a cash machine
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
I used to get that confused.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
or LOOGY?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 7:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lefty One Out GuY
AKA, lefty specialist.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silly, silly internets.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jul 23, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops.
0nt0rn0tz.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jul 23, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happens to me all the time.
I open a tab and go to urban dictionary.
(And I meant that a lot less derisively than it probably came across. Urban dictionary makes me sound like I actually understand what people are saying :P)
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for that tip. That's great.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
one that initially tripped me up:
Iirc=if I recall correctly. Maybe the w one is war=wins over replacement
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 23, 2009 8:25 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
And one that I hate:
IAWTC. I’ve had to look it up three different times now. It means I agree with this comment.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
not "I Approve of the Wu-Tang Clan"?
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 8:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've usually just seen it as "IAWT"
No need for the comment part on a forum where everything is comments.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh
I thought it meant “I agree with this completely.” Same idea, different last word.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I hate it too.
And I’m not above using others. Like, I have a love/hate relationship with LOL. It’s severely overused, but at the same time gets across meaning in a really clear, concise way.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We continue to break the
visits per month record and we still have eight more days to go.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 7:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Purplerownage!
I just hope it doesn’t get too crowded.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So can you track how many comments we've had?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone
can find out anyone’s # of comments.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about the grand total of all posters
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
231,137, or 138 or so by the time I post this
But you have to be an admin to see that page.
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats great news!!
lets continue to pile the people in
we seem to have gotten over that HURDLE
by TuLoRocks2008 on Jul 23, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and only 15,000
short of our visit 1 million.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So for the people who are here now
Tell me about this trade. I am not familiar with this guy or our prospect we gave away, but from reading through a lot of the comments it sounds like…
A) The trade seems fairly even at this point in time
B) The pitcher we got is not highly thought of over on the Indians blog
C) We got a solid relief pitcher
Idk, fill me in on your opinions.
by GoldenNugget on Jul 23, 2009 8:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I can comment on who they are organizationally, but not their skillset (pitches, velocity, etc).
Betancourt was a setup man in the Indians organization who has seen significant success before (his 2007 stat line is great, for example). He essentially fills the need we have for relief pitchers used to fill the late innings, who are used to the pressure, and have seen success in that space before. He is ready to go, and we’re going to get whatever he has to offer, no subtle pretensions around past performance or untapped talent. He’ll either be a good setup guy, or a disappointing setup guy, but he will certainly be a setup guy.
Connor Graham was a pitcher relatively low down in our system (Modesto, High-A level, who will now be at AA with the Indians organization, closer to where he should probably belong) who was older than average for that level, but not unusually old (slow pace, but not off pace, is a good way to think about it). He was in no way an elite prospect, but he was among our pitching prospects who were considered viable to be MLB level at some point. He is currently a starter, but there has been discussion in our organization, and already amongst Indians fans just now getting familiar with him, that he could be retooled to be a potential impact reliever.
We get a setup guy who will do that particular job one way or the other in a contending season where we needed that particular hole filled.. They get a kid with a lot of development left ahead of him, but has a path to the majors ahead of him too. Makes sense everybody is happy.
For more details on their skillsets, turn to someone else, I am not very familiar with either.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some sort of prize for that visit? At least a celebration?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is supposed to be in reply to Russ.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on if I'm around when it happens.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try and note who it is as well when we get closer...
by Rox Girl on Jul 23, 2009 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is a "visit" everytime someone comes to the blog?
It doesn’t include individual page views of various posts, right? And 1 million visits isn’t individual users, is it? Just how many times anyone comes to the site, even if it’s their 100th visit?
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an interesting factoid of the day
Not one Drillers batter struck out in today’s game
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 8:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Who's their hitting coach?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Restarting the thread here
I know that today the Rockies pen got better.
Chacin + Betancourt is an improvement from hurting Corpas + Rincon/Fogg/Speier/Daley
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes they did. And heres hoping we have a complete game tomorrow night :)
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a weird feeling
we could see the Rockies first no hitter this weekend
cause the Giants suck
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three no hitters around MLB in two weeks?
That’d have to be a first.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
no they usually come in bunches (oddly enough)
another reason I think it could happen this weekend
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bunches of three in a three week span?
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Not saying it can't happen, I just find it unlikely that's ever happened before)
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Vandermer
did 2 himself in 5 days time.
I have no idea how to prove this…..so if you want to argue that my perception of this is wrong..feel free.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're probably all catalogued somewhere.
I’ll take a look around.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
June 11, June 15
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
by Russ Oates on Jul 23, 2009 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glancing over the list, there were four over about a five-six period in 1991
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your observation about them coming in bunches was certainly true.
Lots of them come in twos, about 2-3 weeks apart.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope it's Saturday night when I'm there.
Then Good Jorge could be known as Otherwordly Good Jorge.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
I think he’s the likely candidate.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 23, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's pretty similar to jonathan sanchez
It’d be pretty funny (aside from sick) if he threw one. Sick x2 if it’s against Sanchez
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 8:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah or
“Not Quite Mark Buehrle Good Jorge”
The Rockies need some oldschool purple/white striped high socks. The team’s problem is it’s lack of swagger. I feel strongly that these socks will provide the swagger necessary to tap the potential that are the Rockies.
by Resolution on Jul 23, 2009 9:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance that would get up on MLB's front page?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan Musial by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
by pedalpusher on Jul 23, 2009 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any no hitter would definitely be on the front page.
They put Ubaldo’s 5 innings of no hitting the Diamondbacks up there.
Or were you just looking for a chance to inspire complaining about the Rox being ignored by the media in general? :p
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN is on our side now
all of the analysts have us competing for the rest of the year or having us winning the wildcard. MLB and their channel give us fair recognition.
I think the Rockies fans just have an inferiority complex with the media.
by bballrox4717 on Jul 23, 2009 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, we absolutely do. And we know it.
It’s just fun to play undersog. I actually quite enjoy it when we’re ignored. One of the sweetest parts of 2007 was the WTF factor on everybody else’s face.,
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of my absolute favorite things from 2007
was from ESPNRadio the day after the play-in game, when Scott VanPelt was talking about how on SportsCenter Kanny Mayne was doing a lead-in and you could hear Tim Kurkjian screaming in the background about how “The Rockies are going to win this game!!” and then Mayne very dryly says, “They’ve very excited about the baseball game in the news room.” They even played the tv audio a couple times. I actually downloaded an mp3 of the segment and still have it. It cracks me up every time.
by holly96 on Jul 23, 2009 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can all agree on that one for sure, especially if Chacin's transition is smooth.
Even the best of them don’t always show it right away.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes this.
I am super super optimistic now about the rest of the season. It is hopefully the shot in the arm that we need to win the wild card, erm, I mean NL West. I’m glad it’s happening NOW, because it will give Rafael and Chacin some time to adjust, and because I now no longer have a doomy feeling in my stomach whenever I think about our bullpen.
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only paranoid fear is that both turn out to be no better.
No logical observations or empirical evidence here. Only raving fear.
by WolfMarauder on Jul 23, 2009 8:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fear of the unknown...
doesn’t have to be rational. But it’s good that we get to test that now, not later. If our bullpen continues to junk it up, then all we have to do is win 21 of 22… hey, it’s happened before…
by coolopotamus on Jul 23, 2009 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs