READ and LEARN
by blamb303 on Jul 29, 2009 12:39 PM MDT
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PrintAs I was researching for my Seth Smith post, i realized something. Maybe I'll post more about the ineffective Barmes!
I randomly picked four 2nd basemen to compare the Barmes stats to (.260/.305/.457... 80 Strikeouts to 19 walks-more than a 4 to 1 ratio....9 stolen bases in 15 attempts.) These are the stats I'll be focusing on for this blog. I'll also be using the basic Runs Created formula. After some figuring, Barmes has created about 47.7 runs.
Brian Roberts of the Orioles is an above average fielder, granted his arm is weaker than Barmes, but really the longest throw a 2nd baseman makes is more or less 90 feet. Out of 25 Stolen Base attempts, Roberts has been caught 5 times(one less than Barmes with 10 more attempts.) Roberts has struck out 69 times while taking a free pass 41 times. With an OBP of .342, the Baltimore 2nd baseman gets on base more, and strikes out less. Roberts has created approximately 59.4 runs. Nearly 12 more than Barmes.
Now lets look at Placido Polanco. With a .260 average and an OBP of .315, Polanco's stats are quite comparable to Barmes'. However Polanco has struck out only 28 times. 52 LESS THAN BARMES! And he has 22 walks. 3 more than the Rockies 2nd baseman. He puts the ball in play which is an asset a 2-hole hitter should possess. Polancos runs created is below Barmes however, at 42.6 Runs Created.
Its Schumaker's turn. The cardinal 2nd baseman has posted a .305 average and a .366 OBP. Again, he's struck out 43 times, 37 times fewer than Barmes. His stats aren't that impressive but he gets on base, walking 34 times. Schumaker has created 51.7 runs for his team.
Finally, Dan Uggla. He's posting a minuscule .229 average. However, his OBP is .337, 22 points higher than Barmes! He strikes out at about the same rate, 88 times, but he walks more frequently, 53 times, showing more patience at the plate. I was suprised to find out Uggla has only created approximately 48.8 runs for the Marlins.
In my opinion, the only player listed here I wouldn't want on my team over Barmes is Polanco, maybe Uggla.
A bonus player... Mike McCoy, infielder for the AAA Colorado Springs Sky Sox. McCoy has posted an impressive .313 average in triple-A. He also has a knack for getting on base with an OBP of .409. Patience is once again a virtue. He's walked 55 times while only striking out 52 times. That stat pops out at me. His runs created total is 53.7.
I think its time to see what Mike can do with the big club.
I have no personal grievance against Barmes. I've met him on more than one occasion and he's a stand-up guy to say the least. I'd love to see more power from him to the opposite field (all his dingers have gone to left field) and more patience at the plate. His free-swinging approach has gone beyond frustrating for me. EY2 or McCoy deserve a shot. I miss Baker
Eat. Drink. Be Merry. But the above FanPost does not necessarily reflect the attitudes, opinions, or views of Purple Row's staff (unless, of course, it's written by the staff [and even then, it still might not]).
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Skip Schumaker is an OF who is trying to play 2B
He’s a complete joke at 2B, and the Cards are hoping to be able to rejuggle their IF after the Lugo acquisition to put Schumaker back into the OF. I mean, kudos for the guy for trying, but he would not play well for the Rockies, given how we’re a groundball-heavy team (Cook, Jimenez, Marquis) and need the best possible defense up the middle.
Were Brian Roberts younger, I might be interested. But as it stands, he’s roughly the same age as Barmes, but much more expensive, and I highly doubt the Orioles would trade him for the pittance we’d hope to offer.
Uggla is terrible. Yeah, he has decent offensive skills, but he shouldn’t be a 2B anymore.
Polanco is, by reputation, an excellent defensive 2B. His bat leaves an awful awful lot to be desired.
What Runs Created formulation are you using?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
No Hudson, Utley, Cano..etc
I chose not to use any 2009 All-Star second-basemen realizing you would all come down on me so i chose these 4. There are about 5 or 6 players who if i had compared them to Barmes it wouldnt have been fair. Let me know what you think
Basic Runs Created
Im using the basic (Hits+Walks) x Total Bases/AB’s + BB’s. I wasn’t trying to use any of the more complicated formulas implementing SB’s and HBPs or IBBs. I felt this gave a broader perspective. This ok with you RMN. And again I randomly chose those players not knowing how my results would turn out.
I was just asking for my own perusal
as long as everybody’s being evaluated on the same scale, it’s alright by me.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Fantastic
You have made tow fan posts today about stuff we already know. You may think your info is ground breaking, but please, everyone hear acknowledges the fact that Barmes is a free swinger. So, cool it.
I think what he’s trying to ask is why you haven’t taken the time to understand your audience, what our level of understanding is, and where we are coming from. You would probably realize that you have to come with more than just OBP and simple runs created, especially considering the defensive importance of up the middle positions.
You’re coming in here and comparing Clint Barmes to three former All-Star second basemen, and one other outfielder that shouldn’t be playing second base but is, and trying to pass it off as this is what a normal or average second baseman should be capable of. How naive do you think we are? At the same time you’re advocating replacing Barmes with a career AAAA player who’s in his third system and hasn’t seen MLB time, even as a utility player off the bench, for a very good reason. Just because somebody puts up decent numbers in AAA doesn’t mean their bat is anywhere close to MLB ready. Case in point, look what John Bowker did with Fresno compared to what he did with the Giants. Heck, we don’t even have to go that far as both Matt Murton and Carlos Gonzalez have shown that there’s a big gulf between AAA and the MLB right now.
Yes, pretty much
Now, we don’t have a problem here with differing opinions. It usually fosters good conversation. But it sounds like you have a vendetta going against Barmes. That, I have a problem with.
who else?
would you rather me compare him to hudson or pedroia or kinlser? I picked middle of the pack guys. my bad. next time ill compare barmes to utley
her point is that if we compare him to the best, he's gonna look like garbage
I thought they were ok middle of the pack guys, but I do think your analysis UNDERvalues defense, and thereby, undervalues Barmes massively.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
My main issue is that you only half compared him to those players.
If your job required you do two things, but you were only being judged on the part you don’t stack up as well in, would you regard it as a fair assessment?
Each of those guys you compared Barmes to cost their teams a lot of runs on defense. Barmes saves the Rockies runs with the glove. In the end, as the link indicates, Barmes comes out as more valuable than Uggla and Schumaker overall, but less than Roberts. I just think it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend that four or five plate appearances matter so much more than the plays in the field.
Hey
I’m just trying to help you. With this stuff, you are going to be blasted here. So, don’t get smart with me.
ooooh it's sassy-no-nosense mkorpal
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Banhammel
Someone needs to photoshop a Hammel pic with that to post after every Hammel win!
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions
what's wrong with my Stop Hammel Time :-(
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
It's great!
But we need bookends for the game thread! STOP Hammel Time! for the start of the game, Banhammel! for the end of the game :-)
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm thinking
That the banhammel is more of a moderation tool than anything. Lets say that someone calls Santana some crazy thing tonight (I’ll let you imagine what it is), than the banhammel can be used to rectify the situation.
Hmm, true
Unfortunately I’m not creative enough to think of any other good Hammel slogans :-(
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Warhammel
Given the nerdiness of the board, I’m surprised nobody’s brought this one up. My brother in law is really into this game.
lines I don't cross, RG.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Warhammel, Online
Pic of him photoshopped with a Terminator eye?
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
With a statement like that
It reads as “If you disagree with me don’t comment” – which is no way to make friends around here.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Thats Not My Statement
I simply said if you dont wanna read about Barmes, then dont. Im not forcing anybody to read my articles.
fair enough
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Awesome, another blamb post!
Actually, I was kind of disappointed in this. For one, it’s not the combative tone we all grew to love. But then, that’s to your credit.
But there’s nothing substantial in this analysis. You’re picking four players at random and comparing their BB/K ratios, which isn’t exactly earth-shattering information to us because we all know Barmey’s a swinger. Then you bring in runs created, which is proof you’ve gotten a little deeper into “SABRMETRICS” than last night’s screed suggested, but again, you aren’t telling the whole story.
“Clint Barmes is not as good an offensive player as Brian Roberts” is surprising to precisely none of us. What you should be looking at, as far as why Barmes is the starting second baseman, are the other aspects of his game, particularly his baserunning (he’s one of the top 15 baserunners in the game when you factor in his ability to take the extra base, according to BRAA) and his defense (where he has rated consistently excellent in just about every metric at SS and 2B the last two years).
Nobody here thinks Clint Barmes is as good as Chase Utley or Ian Kinsler. But he’s a useful player, even a good one, despite the hacking, and that’s what you aren’t seeing because you’re not looking at the entire picture.
Oh, and runs created in AAA aren’t going to translate to runs created in the majors, so it’s not as simple a conclusion as “McCoy’s runs created are higher therefore he’s a better hitter than Barmes”.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I somehow had forgotten about his baserunning through all of this
Good point.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 29, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions
don't worry Franchise
you’re combative enough for both you and blamb303 ;-)
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Barmes actually has one HR to right center. I believe it was in Oakland. Then again, I won’t complain about the 8th best hitter on the team having 13 HR if all of them landed i inch over the LF wall in Houston.
As for the rest, I’m having trouble following your analysis. Compare him with one stat to four random MLB 2B and then…what…that means he’s terrible? That McCoy’s traveling career and boon of a AAA season at a launching pad makes him better? I don’t follow. At all.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 29, 2009 1:04 PM MDT reply actions
You make a few valid points, but consider this about McCoy:
He is putting up those numbers in a great hitters ballpark, a great hitters league overall, and it’s Triple-A!
Also, out of the players you mentioned above, none of them hold a candle to Barmes’ defensive abilities at second base at this point in their careers. Considering the Rockies’ pitching philosophy (which largely values pitching to contact), it is arguable that building a strong defensive infield is more important than building a strong offense.
Finally, you miss Jeff Baker? Seriously? That guy will never hold down an everyday job at ANY position, let alone second base. I dare say he’s borderline terrible.
"What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 29, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions
I miss Jeff Baker's September '06
And his…May? June? whatever month it was in 2008.
You know who I really miss? Desi Relaford. Man that guy could rake.
Also Eddy Garabito.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Jose Ortiz is my all time favorite rockie
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 29, 2009 1:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh god, those names....
Man, the Rockies were terrible for a while.
"What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan
by Bryan Kilpatrick on Jul 29, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Much better
This is a fan post I can read and understand even though I don’t agree with some of your points. I appreciate you taking the time to state your points backed with stats rather than emotion.
Thanks
I always have the stats i just didn’t realize people needed the info placed on their laps. I assumed people would do their own research.
there's a lot of "gut feeling" and classic evaluation people around here
You need to present the numbers or else we can’t see that you’ve run them.
I for example make giant spreadsheets pretty regularly.
I also have no life.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
HAHA
Awesome. I respect your research RMN. I too have no life. Ive spent tooo many hours evaluating Barmes. I love his defense and speed, he’s a little too aggressive( 6 caught stealing in 15 attempts as opposed to Roberts-5 caught stealing in 25 attempts). He needs to learn to take his walks.
We've noticed the sheer amount of caught stealing incidents this season as well
We’re thinking that this is such a low-contact team, that a lot of it has been based on failed hit-and-runs.
Barmes isn’t a basestealer by any stretch, but his ability to go 1B to 3B on a single is very valuable.
Barmes may have terrible plate discipline, and at 30 years old, he’s looking a bit like Pedro Feliz of the middle infield, but his power numbers say that he still has value.
One thing we’ve noticed is that teams don’t scout him well. He can’t hit the outside slider, and he can’t lay off of it either. But if you groove him a fastball, he’s doing something with it.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Why does a manager call for a hit and run
on a low contact team? Isn’t that asking for trouble and outs?
I like aggressive baserunning more then the next guy (unless the next guy is PinchhitterLancePainter), but there is too many out stealing on this team.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
my question exactly
He’s calling for H/R with our Iannetta types at the plate, the ones who walk and hit bombs but aren’t singles hitters.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions
there is also the fact that as a team it’s not very fast. Only a couple players are above average in speed (Fowler, Smith, CarGo) and two that are average to slightly plus..maybe (Stewart, Barmes). So if a hitter misses, the guy running is in a world of hurt.
I think the team needs more speed. Too bad the Rockies don’t have a 2ndbaseman with speed anywhere in the system
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
PHLPs' ears are burning ;)
I like speed too. But I don’t want to sacrifice sound batting just for speed, you know? I know you’re not advocating Taveras, but I’d rather have Tulo lead off than Taveras.
2007 Taveras was good. I mean REAL Taveras, the sub-.300 OBP guy.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Thats the reason why I'm hesitant on EYJ
Because there is no guarantee on his bat. At least with Barmes, you have an element of power. With EY, who knows what you will get.
you will get speed
wooooooooo
seriously though, if EY can post a better-than-Barmes OBP, his stealing ability may be strong enough to counter the fact that he’s a singles hitter, ie, creating kind of a false SLG, if you know what I mean.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions
That is if he can hit here
Both the pitching and the defense are much better at the major league level. Better defense alone would probably take a chunk out of his production. And we all know how easy it is for a player to misplace a bat in Castle Rock.
I think the bats
get stuck in all that construction traffic in Castle Rock >.>
But anyway, I like EY for his speed and potential, but I’d have to see him in some Sept call-up time before proclaiming him the answer.
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
and those call ups
don’t usually show case the real player. Lack of playing time, the team and roles are set, the big lights of Denver….
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Speed does little good
if a guy can’t make contact. No one has figured out how to steal first yet.
I’ve backed of a little on my EY2 band wagon for 2 reasons. 1) AAA this year looks to be really skewing numbers, of both hitters and pitchers to make them questionable. 2) Defense up the middle is important. At least Barmes has that going for him.
So..it’s possible that EY2 could both be a worse hitter, and a worse fielder…which…would not make the Rockies better.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
check out minorleaguesplits.com
and look at EY’s home/away splits.
It’ll bum you out, but it’s still important.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
not as bad as expect
again…all AAA stats and by that I mean all the PCL, and not just the Sky Sox, I find to be very misleading this year. Seems there are a few good players and pitchers, and a whole lot of crappy players.
Oh..and EY2 has a .400 OBP with 2 outs. So…if he had the same in the majors last night…at least one of Barmes bases loaded AB’s would have been runs for EY2
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
seems like a good 8 hole candidate
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
actually...9 hole
the extra speed, gives another lead off guy if you buy into TLR idea. And I do to some extent
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Well that could be a consideration too
my thought for the 8 hole and a decent OBP was so that it would turn the lineup over more regularly.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions
If a wild pitch, say
hit the outside of the catchers glove and went halfway to first base, could the batter steal first?
If a catcher drops
a called strike 3 the batter can run to first. The catcher can either throw the batter out a first or tag out the batter. I’ve only seen the batter reach safely like that only a couple times in all my years of watching baseball.
But yes…it’s possible, though it’s not scored a stolen base, it’s scored as a strike out, runner safe at first on catcher passed ball.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
I wish I had more time to do this sort of stuff
I am just too busy most of the time to get that in depth
Agree to disagree. Im over Barmes and everybody overvalueing his defense. I appreciate the insight, I see your all buddies here therefore you ALL are going to disagree with me no matter what info i provide. Never realized the blogging community was this discouraging.
Sorry i upset all of you
it's not about having a different view point
there are plenty of people here who like or dislike different players that a lot of others don’t. In my case it’s Fogg. The point is that you present your information in a way that makes sense not just telling people off. We are supposed to be a fan base which means we want the best for our team and should have some common ground and not be making each other angry.
Now come on Bruce
We disagree with you. Not everyone here is all likeminded and hoping to run you off. You just picked a very discussed issue on this website, and most everyone has settled into “Well, we could do a lot better, but we could do a lot worse, too.” on how we feel about Barmes.
You keep telling us we overvalue his defense. Fair enough, but you’re coming off with a “I’m taking my ball and going home” kind of attitude now. You clearly DON’T appreciate our insight, because you’re accusing us all of colluding against you simply because we disagree.
This isn’t ClintBarmes.com, if you ran through the site’s archives, you’d see a lot of articles, fanposts, commentary, all hating and loving Barmes. Especially during the 2006-2008 season.
Nobody really WANTS Barmes to start. But we don’t have a better option, so we’re finding ways to brighten our outlooks, and that is defense.
If you’d taken more time to read the site, read our commentary, you’d realize we’re all hoping that Hector Gomez is our starting 2B in a few seasons, and Clint Barmes is the utility infielder, spelling Tulo and Gomez.
There are a lot of people who want to see Eric Young, Jr get the call, but the front office isn’t budging, and it’s driving us nuts.
I’m on the Mike McCoy bandwagon, but it’s a bit tongue in cheek, I’ll admit.
So just calm yourself down a little. We’re all jumping on you because you picked the player we happen to rant about the most, so we all have a lot of bullets in our chambers. Try writing about….
…uh…
Write about Tulo, write something about him, present your numbers, organize your opinions, and we can try this again. Barmes just happens to be the guy that if you mention him, the thread automatically has 87 comments and it’s the biggest circular argument ever. Also Dexter Fowler.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll believe you
if you can prove that his defense is overvalued. But as it is, the team relies on middle infield defense with all the groundball pitchers we have. That is what makes him so valuable.
Also, you make him out to be a Nix type bat. Well, he isn’t. You don’t acknowledge the fact that he does make good contact and drives the ball very well when he does.
I don’t mind the argument, but please, if youa re going to do it, use all the stats available to you, not just the ones that prove your point.
he's like the opposite of Nix
all contact zero discipline = Barmes
zero contact all discipline = Nix
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
totally fair
I was simply amused with the comparison, that’s all :-)
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
we dont disagree with you because we are buddies
Second base and barmes has been discussed ad nauseum here. From a statistics standpoint and the eye test. Most here are also continuously upset with barmes’ inconsistency and approach. More than any other starter. But through all of the arguments, it is hard to argue against him just being a decent average piece. He’s not a star, nor does he need to be. If you don’t want to buy that barmes is fantastic defensively, no one will make you. But he is widely regarded as such outside of this organization and in defensive statistics. You would be disagreeing with far more than a few rockies bloggers on that subject. If you feel discouraged about this blogging world, reevaluate how you entered here. Your comments last night make it difficult to look at some of this objectively. In honesty, had this been your first fan post, I’m sure the community would be welcoming you, offering constructive criticism and urging you to stick around and read more of what it presented here
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 29, 2009 1:31 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
but I thought we were buddies PF
:’-(
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I can barely stand being on the same internet with you people
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 29, 2009 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't feel bad
We can’t stand you and your “if he aint batting .270, he aint good” attitude either.
by mkorpal on Jul 29, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought I was Redhawk.
"Don't tell me about the world. Not today. It's springtime and they're knocking baseballs around fields where the grass is damp and green in the morning and the kids are trying to hit the curve ball." -Pete Hamill
by Bryce on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You now owe so many people so much money
you can be Redhawk
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
by Redhawk on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
relax buddy
we’ve all met in real life, we’re just taking jabs at each other now.
This is why i want you to sit back and read our threads regularly – they have a lot of tangents, and you’ll get to know the personalities a bit more.
Redhawk is a huge proponent of “Batting Average is superior” while many of us oppose him with “OPS or more advanced metrics are superior”. So we are here making fun of Redhawk.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I love OBP
what else can i say? thats why i have such disgust for Barmes. I’ve been reading threads, unfortunately i dont have the time to sift through and learn all the personalities. I’ll get used to it im sure. Thanks RMN
Just hang out and read a game thread
That’ll catch most of the main posters, and give you a good feel for how they react and what they think.
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
oh God
the game threads are something else entirely
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
K
Then I have a problem with your comments. dont twist things around to make me look bad. People are too smart for that on here
dude scroll up
they’re talking to each other, not to you
mkorpal don’t reply
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
You need to learn the reply system
Not every comment on here is talking to or about you.
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions
I know how to use the replay system!
wait…..everything isn’t about me?
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
I love this website
These two posts have made my day
"A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure."
-Czech Proverb
by NewMexicanSteven on Jul 29, 2009 1:58 PM MDT reply actions
*Fanposts that is
"A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure."
-Czech Proverb
by NewMexicanSteven on Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
hopefully
"A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure."
-Czech Proverb
by NewMexicanSteven on Jul 29, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
everybody was the outsider to start with
except russ and rox girl.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
And Franchise26.
Basically, anyone who was here for the first few days after the site started or had read Rox Girl’s original blog.
"If we never try, we shall never succeed." - Abraham Lincoln
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
That's right.
Recognize. My standing as the first commenter in the history of this blog should be worth something, I think. Maybe all my comments should be printed in 38 point font and be read aloud by Liev Schreiber.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 29, 2009 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Split the difference
How about 19 point font, and read by Weird Al?
Reviews of some great baseball sites and other cool stuff on my web magazine @ The Casual Observer
but your regdate is 2008
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Check the date on the "Blog Memberships" heading
Been a member since April 29, 2005. Although my user ID is only 7, so somebody beat me to registering, but nobody beat me to commenting.
kosmo, I thought I was being reasonable by not demanding Morgan Freeman. What about Kiefer Sutherland? I feel like there’s a middle ground here.
blamb… I thought my sarcasm was fairly obvious. Guess I’ll have to try harder.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
by Franchise26 on Jul 29, 2009 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Sutherland
DONALD Sutherland. Final offer.
Sadly, I was oblivous to PR until 2008. I had just completely ignored the whole blog portion of the internet. Not intentionally, really – it just kind of popped up while I wasn’t looking.
Reviews of some great baseball sites and other cool stuff on my web magazine @ The Casual Observer
Also pushing a radical idea...even if it's right
will get more flack and heat.
Oh, and Batting Average is a great measure of a hitter and Iannetta is the most overated Rockie on the Row (now watch this get lit up)
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Huh?
You need to back that statement up redhawk. Walked TWICE to load the bases last night, Barmes then flew out to short right field. shame on Chris for getting on base. How much does Iannetta’s patience help the players around him?
no he wasn't
but he wasn’t really intending to start the argument, either.
blamb, we had a several-hundred-post debate on this topic, and everyone got involved, but then it all boiled off, leaving Redhawk, PF, Myself, and Rox Girl.
And Redhawk still has hat glue seeping into his brain so he WON’T SEE REASON
COME INTO THE FOLD REDHAWK
IT’S WARM IN HERE AND WE HAVE PRETZELS
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh
I thought “(now watch this get lit up)” was meant to signal sarcasm. My bad.
by ShadowPenguin on Jul 29, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
well it was a bit
I think at the same time, he said it as if you ran into a Weight Watcher’s meeting and yelled “YOU’RE ALL FATTY FATTY FAT FAT!”
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions
No it was more
you want to see a frenzy…watch what happens when I toss this steak into the Tigers’ cage.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Redhawk will argue
that had Iannetta gotten a hit, the runner at 2B would’ve scored both times, thereby ruining the shutout and putting us back into the game.
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I admire Iannetta
for not trying to do too much. He trusts the players around him to produce. He waits for a pitch to drill, and if he doesn’t see it, he doesn’t swing, and gingerly jogs to first base.
http://www.purplerow.com/2009/1/21/729833/why-chris-iannetta-is-a-sp
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
That's what his game is built around, it's how he becomes an asset.
Iannetta is your perfect OBP plus power type of hitter. The thing is, not every player is capable of being that, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be valuable.
Barmes’ game is built around defense, a little pop, taking the extra base when it’s presented to him and his ability to go on some pretty decent high BABIP streaks on occasion. He won’t ever be a patient all around player, which means he’s at best just a role player on a contending club and somebody who in the offseason will look like the easiest upgrade. Right now he’s squarely middle of the pack in the NL when it comes to most overall valuations.
I know the Rockies see extra value in his work ethic and good citizenship, which drives the SABR folk batty, but it probably does add some marginal value to the club if only by making headaches less frequent.
I agree
i think Iannetta will start to see even more of those pitches that he doesn’t right now and will become even more of an impact player. This is defintley an area that not just barmes but CarGo and Stewart could improve in alor. I cringe every time Cargo comes up because it seems like every time he ends up in the hole 0-2. hopefully though that will even out though as he gets more at bats.
Hits do help in scoring runs
and with 2 outs….the runner from 2nd would have scored on a single. Imagine if that hit was a double or even….gasp a home run?
wait…I jut took my own bait….dang
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
wait....do I win?
or does everybody lose
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
redhawk singles to CF
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Ianneta scores, Barmes scores from 1st.
Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile
by frightened inmate #2 on Jul 29, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah but had iannetta not walked
he wouldn’t have scored
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions
you two are hilarious
And both right
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 29, 2009 3:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
McCoy seriously better than Barmes?
The guy is a career .263 minor league hitter, not to mention he is 28 yrs old. Lets look at his last 5 seasons, 2008 he hit .276, 2007 AA ball .221 AAA .247, 2006 AA . 249, 2005 A .270 AA .143. One season out of the last 5 and at 28 he’s a big leaguer?
what have you done for me lately?
Chris Iannetta status: DOOM
Seth Smith status: FREE SETH SMITH
Matt Murton status: Prisoner Exchanged for CarGon
Mike McCoy status: FREE MIKE MCCOY
by Andrew Martin on Jul 29, 2009 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
exactly
time to give someone else a chance. im happy to see barmes wasnt gonna be in the lineup tonight.
OP, How do you rate these players?
Name
Kaz Matsui
Kelly Johnson
Craig Counsell
Skip Schumaker
Mike Fontenot
Orlando Hudson
Emmanuel Burriss
Dan Uggla
Luis Castillo
Felipe Lopez
Anderson Hernandez
David Eckstein
Chase Utley
Freddy Sanchez
Brandon Phillips
Clint Barmes
Eric Young
I rate Chase Utley as the best, and then there is a large group that is the second tier. The starting point for me is WARP1, which Barmes does well at.
My point is that Barmes is a good player. How could we improve at this position? At this time I cannot see how anyone could logically say Eric Young is better. We would really have to come up with some players to lure Chase Utley from the Phillies. It would not be feasable.
I would put Barmes at around the 3rd/4th best Second Baseman in the NL and around 9th best in all of baseball, (not counting minor leaguers). Of those that are better, only a few are significantly better, and we could not put a package together to get them.
I posted this.
http://www.purplerow.com/2009/7/25/962751/a-few-words-about-clint
Please rate the players.
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