Sunday Rockpile: So... the Rockies bullpen... uhm... yeah...
The Boulder
Yesterday's bullpen collapse, because you're a masochist and want to relive it, recapped at the DP and Inside the Rockies. David Martin blogs about his thoughts on the Rox pen here, including the painful truth that we've been neglecting ourselves at the Row that Matt Daley should be included in the list of relievers who are just not cutting it right now. In a post below, RockiesMagicNumber said to take a look at Herges for a minor league contract which I'm okay with.
I know that guys like Matt Herges and Ricardo Rincon and Joel Peralta have value, but this issue is deeper than that, as there is a definite need for a premium arm besides Street in this pen and none of these guys qualify in that regard. The Rockies have a pretty substantial need to get a guy like Heath Bell, Chad Qualls or Matt Capps to be an effective set-up man.
They have a pretty deep need to get an LHP more consistent and effective than Randy Flores and Alan Embree. The costs of these upgrades are going to be a pain in our minor league depth (sorry David, these teams selling arms aren't going to take Atkins' salary) there's not much getting around this, but if the benefit's another playoff run, I think the team may have to get it done.
Other Big Rocks:
Denver Post
Troy Renck argues for Brad Hawpe's inclusion in the All-Star game and has his usual chunky (in a good way, like ice cream or peanut butter) Sunday column of notes and thoughts from around the majors.
Dave Krieger uses the Moe Index, invented by the former Denver Nuggets coach, Doug, to determine that the Rockies are not as far back of the Dodgers as they appear. I have my own look at the schedules of eleven of the NL's conteding teams (not the Dodgers, the Rockies really need to close the gap before taking the NL West becomes a serious possibility) ready to post right after this once I decide on a picture to go with it.
Patrick Saunders notes that Aaron Cook's okay after getting the wind knocked out of him. The health state of his sinker is still unclear.
Jason Marquis is also looking like an All Star possibility, the teams get announced in just a little bit. I have a feeling that Marquis might be one of those final fan vote candidates.
Pebbles:
Tracy Ringolsby's connections with Baseball America allow him to post more of their scouting reports on Rosel Herrera an Johendi Jiminian than you'll see at other places without paying for a BA subscription. Be sure to read about the talented young players the Rockies are adding to the system if you haven't already.
The article I've been waiting to see on Kyle Hancock, the Casper Ghosts right-hander that mysteriously disappeared from our Rockies lives shortly after signing in 2005 has appeared. The Star-Tribune gives us many reasons to be rooting for him, not the least of which is a 94-mph fastball.
Crazy Flatlanders:
Arizona and Colorado apparently still have some bragging rights to play for this season:
But Byrnes also looks at the big picture: Over the past three seasons, the Diamondbacks have the sixth-best winning percentage in the National League. They won a division title in 2007 and led most of the 2008 season before the Dodgers said hooray to Mannywood.
I don't know if it's Byrnes that believes this or a lazy reporter, but in terms of 2007-2009, the top of the NL standings would look like this:
- Philadelphia 222-180 .552
- Chicago 221-180 .551
- Los Angeles 217-188 .536
- New York 216-188 .535
- Milwaukee 216-189 .533
- St. Louis 208-199 .511
- Colorado 206-199 .509
- Arizona 204-201 .504
Call it a hunch, but something tells me that the two teams ahead of the D-backs that were forgotten were not the Dodgers, not the Mets, not the Phillies or Cubs or even Brewers. At any rate, having said this, Dan O'Dowd, I'm sure you know this, but I just want to point out that even though neither we nor the Diamondbacks have it, "the sixth-best winning percentage in the National League" over the last three seasons is not exactly a goal we're looking for as Rockies fans.
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Although even I got who's sixth best in the NL 2007-2009 wrong...
I’m pretty sure that St. Louis has passed the Rockies for sixth now that I look at it again. We better get back ahead of the Redbirds.
What would it take to get Heath Bell?
That would make me very excited, though I’d not be as excited to restock the Padres with prospects.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 5, 2009 9:16 AM MDT reply actions
I hope, btw, that it wouldn't cost either of those arms...
But I suspect that it might. That’s why Bell’s probably more a pipe dream than the others.
Quality Arms
Well, I think the Rockies have several AA arms right now that are all starters. The Rockies have only 5 rotation spots, so just there, it looks like the Rockies could lose one with out really hurting too much. If they aren’t going to make Deduno a reliever, then he needs to be traded.
And….the Rockies have Carlos Gonzales that they could trade. As well as McKenry/Rosario
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
Does Bell have 2 pre-FA years left after 2009?
If so, I suspect he would be that expensive.
Free Seth Smith!
I would not approve
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 5, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
usual chunky (in a good way, like ice cream or peanut butter)
How about peanut butter ice cream?
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jul 5, 2009 9:17 AM MDT reply actions
My (simplified) thoughts on the state of the bullpen:
We here at PR have always known that any production we get out of it boils down to a lot of chance at best. The problem is that ijn this situation whenever one of our starters doesn’t have it (Cook last night), our chances of losing a game drop significantly.
Several of our bullpen tools are declining at a rapid rate.
- Flores has been deteriorating for a while.
- Daley has been deteriorating since his return.
- Peralta has started to deteriorate with two bad outings in a row.
- Embree seems to have leveled off in the range of suckitude.
- Rincon has been okay in most of his outings, but still feels like a disaster waiting to happen.
That leaves Fogg, who is arguably overperforming and whose performance can only suffer from being left on the bench for so long, and Street, who has been everything we could ask for in a close rin terms of durability, performance, and attitude.
So, the good news first: Ryan Speier and Manny Corpas, who even when off are arguably better than some of these guys, are on the way to health. The first problem is that none of these guys are lefties. I feel that addressing Embree and Flores is the first thing that needs doing. Embree’s been like this most of the season, and isn’t getting better. Flores’ great start still doesn’t inspire much confidence, unlike Daley and Peralta who at this point I still hold hope for returning to decency.
Speier and Corpas are likely going to have to replace Rincon and Daley (or Peralta, depending on if he’s recovering or not come activation time). Assuming they’re on when they’re back, even a little (which, judging from Corpas’ first half and Speier’s delivery issues, is admittedly not at all a guarantee), it will already be an improvement on the right handed side of things. We hope.
We still have lefties to worry about. The Embree signing, as far as I’;m concerned, is a lost cause now and should be abandoned with due haste as soon as a viable option appears. That could be through a trade, but with salary already tight, that may be easier said than done.
Taking a glance through the minors, however, leads to more tough news.
We could presumably go with another set of minor league emergency depth moves and hope they stay good longer than Flores did, with Ben Julianel or Damian Moss. Both have decent ERAs at CSP, but WHIPs that border on uncomfortability. Obviously, neither of these options is all that appealing, as they’re projecting to be more of the same Flores. The best we could hope for is an improvement over Embree here, really.
More of the same shortage at AA Tulsa, and calling up any of these guys for emergencies is a worse idea than calling up the AAA options.
So, difficult to trade, no minor league depth. What do we do? I think, with us still in contention and the other options looking bleak, we may have to consider giviing Franklin Morales a try in the bullpen for the rest of the season. I have never before supported the conversion of a potentially effective starter to the bullpen (even temporarily), but desperate times call for measures like this. Ideally, I think this move would be made quickly to get Embree off the roster, and we’d live with Flores until better opportunities arise.
I should correct the Peralta statement.
He had a good outing in between the others. Plus, some could argue Peralta’s first outing was okay. I’m changing that to “deteriorating with two recent innings being scored upon”/
I am hoping he returns to form more than anyone, thankfully I also think it’s more likely he does than any of the others.
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Those thoughts
were similar to mine. I see you voice caution on Speier and Corpas, and that I think is the real issue. Speier hasn’t been that great ever in his MLB career and Corpas STILL has the bone chips in his elbow, which could affect his performance, or be another DL trip waiting to happen.
What the pen needs is not another cast off…but a quality arm. But that may be wishful thinking.
Start Seth Smith! Free Eric Young Jr.!
That's where I was going...
The farm has an outside possibility of maybe giving us an impact relief arm, but right now, we can’t really deal in maybes and need a more certain solution. Of course, as the D-backs could tell us with Jon Rauch, sometimes those more certain solutions are anything but.
You underrate Speier.
I agre he hasn’t been spectacular, but he’s capable of performing far better than half our pen is right now.
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Pen thoughts
I was thinking on Friday how odd it was that Tracy singled out Peralta along with Street as the guys needing to get work at the expense of De la’s complete game…and I know he probably didn’t mean it this way, but he seemingly equated Peralta and Street and that shocked me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled with Peralta’s contribution this year, but watching him throw makes me think Grilli all the way — just no electric stuff and a lot of spinning. Which isn’t bad when he’s getting dudes out like Peralta has (and Grilli did for some time) but you just know there’s going to be a correction at some point. Peralta isn’t a long-term answer at setup. I like him, but when it comes to obvious ways to improve the squad, setup jumps to my attention.
I am a bit concerned that it appears we have nobody ready to come pitch in (har har) to the bullpen effort from the minors. I mean, talk about smoke and mirrors — our entire bullpen other than Street currently consists of castoffs. Where are the young arms? I know Corpas, Buck, Weathers & Speier are down, and maybe its too much to ask for an orgainization to have more than that level of bullpen depth…but it just seems concerning to me that we don’t have anyone else ready to roll.
Its a gross (and repeated) understatement, but if we’re going to be in this for the long haul DOD needs to make some wise moves here and soon. Losing games like last night is not conducive to making the playoffs.
The farm's not that weak...
It’s just not certain. Edgemer Escalona has been having a great season and pitching well in high leverage situations in Tulsa and Modesto. He throws in the 90’s with movement, but lacked control and focus heading into this season. He’s got the control it seems from the numbers, possibly the focus as well. There are other arms there that could be upgrades right now on what we have stuffwise, but the big problem is that the middle of a playoff race shouldn’t be where you test this out. This is why I think the team needs to look outside until September call-ups.
John Grabow and LaTroy Hawkins, please
I never want to see Randy Flores throw another pitch for the Rockies. Holy crap is he terrible.
My pipe dream bullpen looks a little something like Fogg-Corpas-Peralta-Hawkins-Grabow-Street, with either Deduno or Morales called up as a wild-card power arm.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
I honestly don't see how anyone could possibly come to that conclusion.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Flores has allowed runs about one fifth of his outings (not including inherited runners).
Embree has allowed runs about four out of every ten of his outings (also not including inherited runners)
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey, Embree's pretty bad too, don't get me wrong
But at least he’s got a major league pitch in his arsenal (the slider). Flores is just pus.
Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.
The Shawn Chacon Experience - Life as a Rockies fan, one day at a time: Because we're all still recovering from those nine blown saves.
Latroy will be hard to get
because the NL central is so lousy the Astros can stay in the chase longer. 4 back going into today. As much as i am a fan of having a stacked farm system, there comes a time when you need to get players. Bell and Grabow would be good adds, Bell would be awesome. We may have to pay the price and make the run.
The 'Stros are on the verge of irrelevance though,
They’ve looked horrible in SF, both with pitching and hitting, and it’s pretty clear they’re a pretender outside the Juicebox. Three games under .500, fifth place in a weak division, I think if they’re five under at the ASB, they become sellers for sure.
What's up with the long, long interview
with Chase Mutley, while we have to watch the starting lineups go by in a little crawl at the bottom of the screen??
by Junction Rox on Jul 5, 2009 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, the fireworks were good.
What can I say? I love exploding colorful things. Especially when I get to watch them explode over the scoreboard of a darkened stadium while lying in the outfield grass. So absolutely NO complaints from me.
The game itself, to be honest, only got horrible in the last two innings, and the bottom of the eighth was fun. And since it was my first Rockies game of the season, I really can’t pretend I didn’t have a good time. It sucks to lose, but hey, it was baseball.
Also, July 4th and it’s still very chilly in the evening? Gotta love Colorado weather…
Looks like Hawpe and Marquis is all we get
I’m fairly happy with this.
Hey I'm on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAlLTZsGUg
I am shocked Marquis made it.
Happy, but shocked. Manual picked him. I knew the players wouldn’t, but I thought there’d be more than enough enough left for Manual to consider him.
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
We also may have one of the final 5 votes. We'll see.
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Street would probably be the only one with a shot.
by Greg Stanwood on Jul 5, 2009 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Agree
Street probably lost out on a spot to Cordero who got on as the Reds representative. I think sometimes those guys get a shot in that final 5 vote. No way do they put Helton on there when they already have 4 1B on the roster.
by Junction Rox on Jul 5, 2009 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Congrats to Marquis and Hawpe
Two guys who were producing when nobody else was, and have continued to do so as the rest of the team has picked it up. Well deserved. Maybe the All-Star nod will buoy Marquis’ through his usual 2nd half slide.
good point
They have been producing all along. It’s also not bad to get just two, as it’s been a real team effort. They’re getting good production out of a lot of spots.
Free Seth Smith!


















